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Meta Fox Matchup Discussion

What do you think the match-up ratio between Corrin and Fox is?

  • Corrin 70-30 Fox

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Corrin 30-70 Fox

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    21

IndigoSSB

Back from the dead
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
441


Main Matchup Thread


Fox Frame Data

Corrin Frame Data

Sorry for being late with this, things have been hectic. Known for his aggressive, rush down style and his various kill set-ups, Fox is a character that contrasts with Corrin. This is an all-out battle between dragons and foxes!

Goal of Primary Discussion:

  • Find our strengths in this matchup
  • Discuss our cons in this matchup
  • Choose our best stages for this matchup
  • Discuss Neutral Game
  • Discuss Ledge Game
  • Discuss Off Stage Game
  • Discuss Stock Ending
  • Discuss Advantage
  • Discuss Disadvantage
  • Overall Tips
  • Summary

Character Specific Topics:
  • Viability of using Dragon Fang Shot with respect to Fox's reflector.
  • Exploiting Fox's fast falling properties, combos that work on fast fallers?
  • General edge guarding strategies against Fox's linear recovery.
  • Countermeasures against Fox's kill set-ups.
We can discuss who wins this match-up and develop strategies against this specific character. This discussion will end with an agreed match-up ratio.

Schedule
Week 5: Captain Falcon


I've also added a poll to this thread so we can see what people think. This is supposed to replace the system where we end with a consensus ratio (which wasn't really working out). Just a test to see if it's worth doing.


Also, at the end of your posts mention what characters you'd like to discuss in the future. I'd like to know what match-ups people are generally interested in.
@Saki-
 
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atreyujames

The Laziest Man in the North
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
409
NNID
Atreyujames
I'm not the best at examining character matchups, but I will note that Fox's recovery is INCREDIBLY easy to intercept. Firstly, Firefox is probably one of the easiest recoveries for us to Tipper Lunge against. I mean, he just sits there for about 20 frames, waiting for us to tipper him. As well, It is very easy to Dair Firefox as he is recovering and most of the time it seems to knock us out of the fall and ends up spiking. Fox Illusion is no better. If he's going for the ledge, than a dropdown Nair will ALWAYS beat him out. If he's going for the stage, than just charge F smash. I can't stress enough how much I like using Fsmash charge against fox illusion. You can usually always get at least one stock from a Fox because one of their favourite methods for getting onstage from ledge is to just drop down+DJ+Illusion onto stage. Maybe if the Fox has a some Corrin matchup knowledge than they might know not to do this, but I know some Fox's will still do it out of habit.

As a side note, If we angle our Up B to ride up the side of the stage, than usually it will hit the fox before he can use his Utilt to punish our 2 frame. Very useful to use when recovering against Fox. Just make sure to buffer a get up to beat out the trump if they are holding shield at the ledge 'cause ain't nobody got time for any Trump to Bairs

For comboing, since he is quite agile, it might be hard to land a combo starter against him. Patience plus retreating SH Nairs can help in that sense though. When you do manage to start a combo, you have to keep in mind a few things; Dtilt will will not Combo at zero, especially if he DI's downwards. But at about 10-ish percent you can usually chain 2 Dairs into 2 Uairs which can rack on the damage quickly. Due to being a fastfaller AND one of the lightest characters in the game, Fox has one of the largest margins for when our kills setups work. Dtilt to Uair and Fair to Fair to Uair can actually realistically kill, especially when aided by platforms. We get a lot off of combos against this character so it is essential that we do not drop our strings.
 

EnhaloTricks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
197
Location
Texas
I did a writeup on this MU on the Fox boards. When I get time later today I'll paste it here with some changes.

For now, I say 60/40 fox.

(Fox main btw)
 

PK Gaming

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Messages
1,315
Location
Canada
There is a lot of footage of this match being played at high level play. Just search up CosmicCosmos Corrin vs Fox on youtube and you're bound to get several hits. On to business:


Fox is really good at harassing Corrin. He can chase her down due to his great mobility, and never really give her a chance to rest. He's got a top class CQC game and it's difficult for her to consistently keep him out. Fortunately, he's extremely light which makes him susceptible to early kills from Bair, Bite, DL, etc. He also dies early to up throw, so Corrin ends up having a Ness-like kill option here. Keep in mind that being light =/= easier to beat, but when you do land those kills you have the potential to create a pretty big gap in this match up. His recovery is very linear and definitely interceptable; when Fox is recovering with side B, you absolutely should not let him get back on the stage for free.

Overall, this is a matchup that requires patience on both sides. Both characters have the ability to create a huge gap once they get the stock lead, so getting that first kill is important. Ultimately i'd say it's our disadvantage, but not a particularly big one.
 

hell-dew

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
183
Location
Ontario
neutral feels tough and regaining advantage feels insane outside of that fox gets hit of makes a mistake he gets kinda messed up for it and we have a good kit to punish him with. CQC is heavily in his favor and he has all the speed in the world to bait us into stupid choices but getting that combo starter on him is is a nightmare for him
 

gridatttack

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
228
Location
El Salvador
NNID
Gridatttack
Dunno if it's 60-40 for fox as in IMO it's not that bad as the supposed 60-40 for Shulk.

Points to note is that Larry Lurr mentions that Fox has a Slight advantage, which I find surprising, considering how we are most in agreement it's a difficult MU.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Slight advantage is about right. I'd even argue for even, but, for now, -1 is fine for me. Fox's rushdown can be very overwhelming if you aren't prepared for it. and if you want to know, I indeed voted for even.

Why:

  • Find our strengths in this matchup
For starters, we outrange him. as obvious as it may or may not be, this also means we are able to apply a certain kind of pressure ourselves when we get him into the air. Our weight differential, combined with our attack power, it evens things out against his strong rushdown game. Instant Pin kick, U/D-Throw (closer to the edge), U-air, B-air and even one of F-Smash or Side B TIPPER, all reliable kill moves at some point of the match. We can get him pretty good with one of the tippers when he's coming back, depending on the angle. also, let's not forget we juggle him pretty hard.

  • Discuss our cons in this matchup
Believe it or not, we're sort of combo food.You're not going to want to get caught hitting his back, considering U-Tilts are the most annoying lower-percent combos/combo-starter. His rushdown is pretty underwhelming if we aren't being careful with the moves we throw out- and most importantly, when. (I, personally, have a bad habit of FF N-air'ing unsafely on Shield as well as bad B-airs)

  • Choose our best stages for this matchup
Pretty much Battlefield. It saves us from U-Smash at higher percents too, so there's that. There's also Town & City, with it's low celing and nice platforms.

  • Discuss Neutral Game
I kind of forgot what Fox does here, but me, personally. I like to get close and force a sort of reaction in which I can catch him in a bad spot, like a F-air string or something. In the meantime, I like to throw out F-airs (mainly right off the jump, as looks pretty safe on Shield as well as it keeps a sort of momentum) and some FF N-airs in the middle, in case he happens to drop Shield (bad habit of mine). FF B-air is also really good, assuming you're perfect with them.

  • Discuss Ledge Game
It's been said. We catch his Side-B with F-Smash, can Side B TIPPER his Up-B and even choose to Counter it (it's a garanteed punish, I'm just not sure when it kills). By the looks of it, we might even be able to D-air his Up-B and catch his Side-B with Bite (shot, then Bite?).

  • Discuss Off Stage Game
He can gimp us with Foxcopter and maybe even N-air, so watch your Up-Bs (and Jumps, too).

  • Discuss Stock Ending
For him, or for us? He has setups like D-air to U-Smash (I think you're supposed to DI down, away and tech, otherwise you're dead). He's going to fish for U-airs, but I never found it that obvious. He's to work for it (DI away from him and either try to airdodge accordingly or even D-air when you see him coming).

I've already talked about our general ways to kill him. U-Throw isn't so bad isn't this MU.

  • Discuss Advantage
Considering he's a fast-faller, we might also be able to catch him in strings for longer than others. Look out for F-air strings and frame trap opportunities, those are huge.

  • Discuss Disadvantage
  • Overall Tips
  • Summary

Character Specific Topics:
  • Viability of using Dragon Fang Shot with respect to Fox's reflector.
  • Exploiting Fox's fast falling properties, combos that work on fast fallers?
  • General edge guarding strategies against Fox's linear recovery.
  • Countermeasures against Fox's kill set-ups.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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