Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[MaNg0]

u should pick me up =D

 

[Dynamism?]

YES do it, bring Mango =D

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I was just wondering cuz it seems like you've sort of disappeared :/

 

[RaynEX]

SW, unlike the rest of us, has a life.

Wait aren't you like the most technical player in the world?

>_>...<_<

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i like to think i have a life

 

[Psyke]

Question....I know how to shine fox/falcos out of theyre forward b recovery but one thing i cant get the hang of doing is shining them out of theyre firefox/bird recovery...when i shine them out of theyre phantasm i usually time it by listening to the twinkle sound that comes before the phantasm...is there anything that i can use to help me be able to shine a space animal out of theyre up b recovery?

 

[Lovage 805]

first off, falco's up+b has no damaging flames while he's charging it. so you can shine spike him at anytime during his charge. fox's is also easy you just have to time it a bit better

to shine someone out of their firefox trajectory you have to have your angle right and time it so that you shine them before the hitbox hits you (the top)
just practice you'll find the right way to do it

 

[RaynEX]

You only have a 1 frame window of hitting the shinespike. Just go for bairs to edge-guard instead.

 

[Lovage 805]

wow its really 1 frame? lol makes me proud

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Is it possible to shinespike fox when he's in "charging" it, even the hitboxes have come out?
btw, i prefer to ftilt/jab or bair/nair them through their illusion/firefox, and then fall down and shinespike them. After the ftilt/jab they have no option but to firefox below you, and shinespike'ing them there is really easy.

 

[Falcinho]

This is not entirely true, they can SDI the Jab

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

you mean like sdi the jab up so they lose their hitstun while being in range for grabbing the edge?
sure it can prolly work at lower percents (against the jab, doubt it'll work on the ftilt since it has slightly more stun)

 

[Falcinho]

I think at higher %ages you can even SDI behind them.

But don't quote me on that, i haven't been edgeguaded like that for quite a while.

 

[brawlpro]

Yea u can shinespike him even after the hitbox came out, but prefer doing it from above.

 

[RaynEX]

wow its really 1 frame? lol makes me proud

Yea the hitbox of the shine lasts one frame. When you JC there is like 3 frames of lag. The shine is good but I honestly don't think its super broken. Just sort of gay.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

broken...gay...who knows the difference between these two terms anymore..especially when tlaking about fox/sheik

 

[Da Shuffla]

Yea the hitbox of the shine lasts one frame. When you JC there is like 3 frames of lag. The shine is good but I honestly don't think its super broken. Just sort of gay.

I thought that Fox was just invincible for 1 frame. Crazy.

 

[RaynEX]

I thought that Fox was just invincible for 1 frame. Crazy.

I think his frame of invincibility is the same frame the shine's hitbox is wrong. It explains why shine randomly clinks but is never beaten flat out by moves.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I think his frame of invincibility is the same frame the shine's hitbox is out. It explains why shine randomly clinks but is never beaten flat out by moves.

Yes, this is the case, and also the reason why shine is one of like 3 moves that beat grabs.

Read the next part only if you're into hardcore smash theory and stuff I am not sure about.

Spoiler

I think that the window for shinespikes is bigger than one frame though, because the hitbox obviously isn't a tiny spot in the middle of Fox' stomach. Since it extends beyond his body, if an opponent is Firefox/birding towards him there's gonna be more than one frame in which his hurtbox is in the range or potential hitbox of the shine. Since shine comes out in one frame, you can activate it on any one of those frames and have it hit.

I'm not too sure about this though. After all, the shine's hitbox isn't marth fsmash huge, and so it might be too small for the effect that I described to take place. It's just an idea, because I feel like shinespiking someone out of a firefox/bird is not 1 frame hard. Hard, yes, but not 1 frame hard.

 

[RaynEX]

I simply thought shine was alot faster than grabs, thats why it wins if you lcancel on a shield. I just pieced together the invincibility idea recently. lol

I duno...if you don't have safe frames from the edge when you're shine-spiking its pretty hard to hit Fox/Falco directly out of their upb.

 

[L__]

How does one combo Mario, and Doc.

I am too lazy to watch videos, or read guides.

 

[Lovage 805]

nair nair nair

 

[RaynEX]

If they get smart and CC. Nair/Dair and land behind them and spam utilt.

Dtilt works too.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I simply thought shine was alot faster than grabs, thats why it wins if you lcancel on a shield. I just pieced together the invincibility idea recently. lol

I duno...if you don't have safe frames from the edge when you're shine-spiking its pretty hard to hit Fox/Falco directly out of their upb.

Well, I mean grab beats shine if the hitboxes are timed to come out at the same moment. Obviously shine is also 6 frames faster.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I can't seem to combo from the dtilt if they just DI away. maybe im doing it wrong >.>

 

[Lovage 805]

see my sig for reference

 

[RaynEX]

see my sig for reference

What he means is, your opponent has to **** up d.i.

Neutral or towards. The majority of people you face won't see a dtilt coming and probably won't d.i. it. :S

 

[Lovage 805]

What he means is, your opponent has to **** up d.i.

Neutral or towards. The majority of people you face won't see a dtilt coming and probably won't d.i. it. :S

What he means is, Lovage is amazing

 

[L__]

I heard that Lovage person is okay.

Just okay.

Although Isai might be a LITTLE better.

 

[RaynEX]

Edge-guarding:

Marth:

DK:

Samus:

Thoughts anyone? Vs. Marth I basically lightshield into stuff/edgehop or bair/shine with ledge frames. Its broken, but I want to be more creative with it. DK/Samus I just freestyle.

Anyone have ideas to throw out?

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Raynex in that match you had vs sliq's roy I saw you ledgehop a bair against his recovery (which is basically the same as marth's recovery). Where you using ledge invincibility frames then or did you space it in some weird way so you didn't get hit by the sword?

Against DK, you can shinespike through his up-b if you aim for his head and time it right. Might not be worth the risk tho, cuz if you time it to late you'll take lite 30% from the swinging arms.
you can dsmash and fsmash right through DK's up-b. for the dsmash to work fox's legs have to be on level with DK's arms. So if you time it right you can often own his sweetspot attempts.
Sadly the dsmash won't do much against his recovery tho.
So fsmash is prolly better, but dsmash is easier to time. You have to space yourself kinda far away for it to work.

 

[BrawlLover]

you can always shine marth as an edgeguard no? at least taht's what i saw in videos sometimes

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

No, the sword will hit you
i tested the up-b thing, it always works if you space it right. might not if they do a perfect sweetspot tho idk

 

[Falcinho]

If you expect the Marth to go on the stage, you can shield the upB (standing right next to the edge) and shine out of shield + edgehog

 

[RaynEX]

Raynex in that match you had vs sliq's roy I saw you ledgehop a bair against his recovery (which is basically the same as marth's recovery). Where you using ledge invincibility frames then or did you space it in some weird way so you didn't get hit by the sword?

Against DK, you can shinespike through his up-b if you aim for his head and time it right. Might not be worth the risk tho, cuz if you time it to late you'll take lite 30% from the swinging arms.
you can dsmash and fsmash right through DK's up-b. for the dsmash to work fox's legs have to be on level with DK's arms. So if you time it right you can often own his sweetspot attempts.
Sadly the dsmash won't do much against his recovery tho.
So fsmash is prolly better, but dsmash is easier to time. You have to space yourself kinda far away for it to work.

I used frames to go through his up+b that time. If you firefox stall once or twice it becomes really easy to abuse your frames and get an easy shinespike on Marth. Also, ledge-drop bair is really good vs. Marth if he goes low. It doesn't trade if you have frames and kills him if he doesn't have a double jump.

 

[idea]

pc seems to shinespike m2k's marth a lot...i think he looks for a non-sweetspot up-b from m2k then runs in and shines. maybe watch those videos and learn to do that too, for when it looks like marth is gonna get back? or is it too difficult to be practical...

 

[BrawlLover]

i guess if the marth sweet spots it perfectly but i think fox's shine can still kill him

 

[RaynEX]

Not worth the risk. PC takes a huge chance by guessing m2k will miss his sweetspot. If M2k gets the edge right then PC is way too close to the edge aka gimp proximity. The only thing I think PC is doing right is spamming shield when edge-guarding marth. He waits for either a WD on the stage or an aerial and does a move oos to counter.

I talked to PC on aim and even he admitted he doesn't really know what to do vs. marth on edge-guard. Its all freestyle.

 

[GodheadsLamentX]

Marth: LS edgehog. If Marth makes it, LH Bair. There's other options, but usually I don't know until dealing with it then and there

DK: Fullhop Nair out at him, or LH Uair/Bair from under. (The main problem with these is the timing to hit the center away from his arms during his monkeycopter)

Samus: Walljump shine or shine Bair is fun esp when they try to grapple.

 

[BrawlLover]

apparently there are a lot of things you can do, try playing marth against m2k's fox