Red Rice
Smash Journeyman
Right, I know Bones but I mean just me personally. I feel like my reaction time is bad or I'm just not sure when I'm going to powershield because I'm not entirely consistent at it
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
Diana's Safe Landing
Smash Apprentice
Yea, I agree. Whenever I jab in the ditto or I get jabbed my friend and I always start jabbing each other back. After you jab fox what can you follow up with before you yourself get jabbed? Jab is great at interrupting things out of nowhere but in the fox ditto is it generally considered unsafe to throw it out at neutral when the opponent is at low percent?@Diana's Safe Landing
Fox's ftilt is amazing. Especially when edgeguarding. But in terms of neutral, I like to opt for jab > ftilt. Darc tells me that it's a frame trap
Bones0
Smash Legend
You can always delay your WD OoS (or w/e you do) by a few frames to account for shield stun so it works whether your PS or not. Try WDing back OoS after going for a powershield. If you hit it, you can react to them getting hit by the laser and take some space (you can almost never get true followups from PSing). If you miss, then you just shield the laser and WD back safely; if they SHL into SHFFL and you WDed back OoS properly, you should be able to grab them no problem (maybe adding in a DD).
Red Rice
Smash Journeyman
@
Diana's Safe Landing
I don't know percents at all, I kind of just play and see what works. For me, when I get a jab at low percents I like to jab>ftilt, jab>grab, or jab>DD grab/aerial. I guess it would be less safe at lower percents because your jab can be crouch canceled
@
Bones0
So it sounds like I should WD OoS regardless of whether I power shield or not
Diana's Safe Landing
I don't know percents at all, I kind of just play and see what works. For me, when I get a jab at low percents I like to jab>ftilt, jab>grab, or jab>DD grab/aerial. I guess it would be less safe at lower percents because your jab can be crouch canceled
@
Bones0
So it sounds like I should WD OoS regardless of whether I power shield or not
Estwood
Smash Apprentice
Is there lag when you SHDL?
There is no landing lag if I remember correctly.
When you land during laser, a normal landing animation (4 frames) takes place. If you go to practice mode and use 1/4 slow motion, it's very easy to see when normal landings happen, because it has it's own animation. So you can easily test yourself which moves auto-cancel.
Sinji
Smash Master
How do you edge guard Samus?
Red Rice
Smash Journeyman
There are a couple of viable options on edgeguarding samus. When I want to rack up percent, I laser the **** out of her when she's bomb recovering. You can also time when she does the bomb jump and shine her out of it.
If she grapples the ledge while you're edgehogging, she is forced to jump onto the stage. React to when your opponent presses A and ledgehop bair
If she grapples the ledge while you're edgehogging, she is forced to jump onto the stage. React to when your opponent presses A and ledgehop bair
Zeppeli
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2014
- Messages
- 34
I play Sheik and have a question.
Whenever I play against a top Fox and eat a nair/grab, I end up in a frenzy of hits where my percent goes from 0%~50% and then I get edgehogged and die.
When can I combo break in these type of instances? I know it's a very vague question - By combo break I'd refer to stuff like doing a nair right after fox shine -> upsmashes me at a low percent, which I've seen KK do many times.
It feels as though I don't know how to properly DI versus fox (down-back isn't working too well ... should I be trying to SDI whenever possible?) and don't know when I should use my double jump to get out of his early percent combos (do I use it early on and risk getting hit and juggled without my double jump ... or when I've already eaten a ton of damage and use it during recovery).
Thanks.
Whenever I play against a top Fox and eat a nair/grab, I end up in a frenzy of hits where my percent goes from 0%~50% and then I get edgehogged and die.
When can I combo break in these type of instances? I know it's a very vague question - By combo break I'd refer to stuff like doing a nair right after fox shine -> upsmashes me at a low percent, which I've seen KK do many times.
It feels as though I don't know how to properly DI versus fox (down-back isn't working too well ... should I be trying to SDI whenever possible?) and don't know when I should use my double jump to get out of his early percent combos (do I use it early on and risk getting hit and juggled without my double jump ... or when I've already eaten a ton of damage and use it during recovery).
Thanks.
Vorde
Smash Journeyman
I main Fox and never have a chance to play against him that much, but when it comes to DI, I would DI up-away until closer to kill percentage where I would DI up-towards. Just my 2cents
CeLL
Smash Lord
Is Waveshine -> uair a combo on Falcon? Or maybe other characters?
Pengie
Smash Lord
Waveshine up air is a legit combo on Falcon/Peach/ Sheik if they don't DI the shine but it's stupidly hard to do as a legit combo, at least from what I remember testing.
Red Rice
Smash Journeyman
Often at lower percentages, people will crouch cancel your nair and you'll be punished
Diana's Safe Landing
Smash Apprentice
Shine has the most utility of any move.
-offstage gimps
-shield pressure
-allows you to turn around so you can turnaround waveland on platforms, turnaround wavedash onto ledge, and turnaround bair to extend combos.
-stalls your momentum for recvoery mix ups and easier wavelands.
-hitting with fox's shine gives you stage control and often combos into other moves or puts you in a situation where you can almost always get another hit off.
-fox's shine has set knockback so using it on low percent opponents near the edge can set up an edgeguard situation.
- its hitbox comes out on frame 1 so you can spam it during combos to get out, can use it after a spot dodge, get up, get up attack, tech or literally any move you do to protect yourself from getting punished.
-it can also be jump canceled near instantly so its your fastest and least laggy move
- it can reflect projectiles and has a disjointed reflect hitbox with a certain glitch.
these are only a few uses off the top[ of my head so there are definitely even more things this move can do. Very scary attack.
-offstage gimps
-shield pressure
-allows you to turn around so you can turnaround waveland on platforms, turnaround wavedash onto ledge, and turnaround bair to extend combos.
-stalls your momentum for recvoery mix ups and easier wavelands.
-hitting with fox's shine gives you stage control and often combos into other moves or puts you in a situation where you can almost always get another hit off.
-fox's shine has set knockback so using it on low percent opponents near the edge can set up an edgeguard situation.
- its hitbox comes out on frame 1 so you can spam it during combos to get out, can use it after a spot dodge, get up, get up attack, tech or literally any move you do to protect yourself from getting punished.
-it can also be jump canceled near instantly so its your fastest and least laggy move
- it can reflect projectiles and has a disjointed reflect hitbox with a certain glitch.
these are only a few uses off the top[ of my head so there are definitely even more things this move can do. Very scary attack.
CeLL
Smash Lord
Is shine -> jump -> cancel jump with Illusion (without ever leaving the ground) actually a combo on Luigi? It's so hilarious to me for some reason. If it is, are there followups from the Illusion? I can't seem to get uair (though that would be sick given how floaty he is).
Diana's Safe Landing
Smash Apprentice
I'm pretty sure you have to leave the ground slightly so there will be less lag after the illusion. And it's percent/DI dependent but uair can combo.
CeLL
Smash Lord
Nah, you don't have to leave the ground to get an aerial Illusion. Try it on it's own, just jump and immediately Illusion. It's like the same timing as multishining. It's just like Falco's IAP in Brawl. Strangely Fox can do it in Melee but not Brawl.
Diana's Safe Landing
Smash Apprentice
If you do an aerial illusion you have less lag and can follow up faster. I'm not sure if you can follow up with uair after a grounded illusion.
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CeLL
Smash Lord
It's an aerial Illusion, just on the ground.
Diana's Safe Landing
Smash Apprentice
Oh, I thought using illusion the first frame out of jumpsquat would put you back on the ground like shine does, but you stay in the air. A grounded illusion would be really laggy though and cant be done directly out of shine so it's irrelevant. But yes its a true combo and the illusion can combo into aerials.
CeLL
Smash Lord
I learned how to shield drop so I could shield drop -> uair as Marth.
Does Fox have any particularly good shield drop options?
Does Fox have any particularly good shield drop options?
Pengie
Smash Lord
Shield drop shine is really good as a get off me tool because it's basically a faster shine OoS. Shield drop bair is good in too many situations for me to list right off the top of my head.
Red Rice
Smash Journeyman
Shield drop to get out of marth's pressure
Bones0
Smash Legend
I was playing Falco vs. Fox against Wenbo at Xanadu. He invul ledgedashed, hit me with a shine, jumped, immediately Illusioned my missed tech. The stage was transforming from the jungle transformation so what would have normally been the top plat was in the ground. He ledgecancelled off of the plat inside the floor, and usmashed me for the KO. I just paused and looked at him, then I had to explain what happened because he didn't even know...
Shining on the first aerial frame after jump also results in aerial shine. It takes you 6 frames to land afterwards, so you must delay your jump 2 frames if you don't want to dj out of the shine. It just looks like grounded shine since the shine cancels your vertical momentum and you don't actually move vertically at all. I think the reason you don't land immediately is that after jump your ECB is of such a shape that you need to fall lower than ground level to land. This how the aerial illusion works too.
Shield drop aerials and dj aerials are good. You can shield drop dair or bair to punish marth's utilt on shield. I've seen armada get some crazy shield drop dair shine punishes on marth.
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Me vs Tai anyone care to critique? I feel like i was playing pretty good but Tai is also good lol
Edit: Sorry for the ****ty quality of the vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWz_YOIgmrg
Edit: Sorry for the ****ty quality of the vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWz_YOIgmrg
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AppleAppleAZ
Smash Journeyman
Be better
This helps so much
FlootsyGaz
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2014
- Messages
- 2
When doing waveshine do you move the control stick to the right > neutral > down > neutral > right? Or can you just slide it over to right > down > right without going through the neutral area of the control stick? I find that the first method works more consistently for me.
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Engo
Smash Ace
whats up fox bois
supreme jd
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 20
What kind of movement is Hax doing here and how do I do it? Is he just dash dancing and wavedashing really fast?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcP2Ya8TXBk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcP2Ya8TXBk
DroogieART
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
- Messages
- 4
It's a combination of dash dances and wavedashes in place.
Is like a dash dance with an extra tempo, serves throws the opponent out of rhythm, very tactical and you can mindgame your opponents with it. To execute you dash left or right then wavedash in place and repeat as fast as you want.
Sinji
Smash Master
whats the best approach to use against ganondorf around 10%?
CeLL
Smash Lord
Anyone Marth's weight or heavier, and just dash for them all, there's no downside.
You're not fast enough to combo the ICs or Luigi, but you can hit them with an Illusion if you really want.
Twhy
Smash Rookie
Does anyone know if it is possible to actually land a shine turnaround upsmash? I did one screwing around the other day, but i'm to scrubby to make it work when actually hitting a someone.
Learn to do it against an opponent, you can use lvl1 bowser cpu handicapped (you on 1 and him on 9) or plug another controller. It can be useful sometimes when you failed to space an aerial (nair or dair) correctly or when you dair them and they have godlike SDI and end up on your back.