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Flipstalling - ZSS Ledge Mechanic

ph00tbag

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I've never seen anyone apply this before, so I'm going to assume it's an undeveloped aspect of ZSS's kit. If anyone has been implementing it in their play, by all means, speak up and give your thoughts as to where it can be applied.

The Idea: Utilize ZSS's Flip Jump to stall on the ledge to mix up ledgestall loop timings and provide invincible attack opportunities.

The Method: I'm poor, so I don't have recording equipment. Otherwise this would be an easy thing to show. The basic concept is fairly simple: ledge drop by tapping down to instantly fastfall, then time a Flip Jump so that when ZSS reaches the apex of the jump, she's just within Flip Jump's ledge grab range. Of course, this explanation simplifies things; Because ZSS can sacrifice height for forward movement, she reaches the apex of flip jump at different times depending on how far forward you're holding the control stick when she jumps. This changes the timing of the ledge-grab, forcing your opponent to guess when ZSS will be grabbing the ledge.

The Advantage: But it doesn't stop there. By performing any of these timings sufficiently early, but not too early, ZSS can soft land on the stage. Since the timing for performing the flip jump is earlier for each arc when landing on the stage, any arc looks like a lower arc based on timing alone, further confusing your opponent. The fastest Flip Jump arc is one of the best options here, as ZSS will soft land on the stage with all of the momentum from the arc, causing her to slide very far across the stage. If this is done instantly off a ledge grab, I'd wager she even has enough invinciblity to bust through a lot of edge pokes.
 
Last edited:

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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hmmm... I will test this out this thursday. I hope this can help me against my Bowser MU, since bowser can gimp ZSS like a boss.
 

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
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When I first tried ZSS I used to so this a lot. I thought it was a thing so I didn't talk about it lol
 

jeck95

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Interesting tech, this could be useful because getting back onto the stage is annoying sometimes. Thanks for sharing.
 

Foo

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Found a jank way to use this, so I thought I'd post it here. If you are doing this, and fall farther downbing into the wall, you can SUPER quickly do a walljump,double jump, bair, ff, lcancel onto stage.

The wall jump give you a LITTLE more height, but mostly just turns you around. If you do it right, you can even really see the wall jump happen. One second you are down-bing into the stage, the next you fly up and back air them.

The input is pretty simple too. With tab jump on, this is the simplest* way to do it.

Down/forward-B-(wait)-back-up-forward-A-down-L Basically a full circle on the stick with some buttons thrown in. It only works on stages with walls on the side (though it works on FoD!). Doesn't seem likes it's SUPER useful, but it could be a potential recovery mixup. I did it once to a friend and he sure didn't see it coming lawl.

*simplest doesn't equal easiest for everyone
 

D.C.L

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Feb 9, 2015
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I've never seen anyone apply this before, so I'm going to assume it's an undeveloped aspect of ZSS's kit. If anyone has been implementing it in their play, by all means, speak up and give your thoughts as to where it can be applied.

The Idea: Utilize ZSS's Flip Jump to stall on the ledge to mix up ledgestall loop timings and provide invincible attack opportunities.

The Method: I'm poor, so I don't have recording equipment. Otherwise this would be an easy thing to show. The basic concept is fairly simple: ledge drop by tapping down to instantly fastfall, then time a Flip Jump so that when ZSS reaches the apex of the jump, she's just within Flip Jump's ledge grab range. Of course, this explanation simplifies things; Because ZSS can sacrifice height for forward movement, she reaches the apex of flip jump at different times depending on how far forward you're holding the control stick when she jumps. This changes the timing of the ledge-grab, forcing your opponent to guess when ZSS will be grabbing the ledge.

The Advantage: But it doesn't stop there. By performing any of these timings sufficiently early, but not too early, ZSS can soft land on the stage. Since the timing for performing the flip jump is earlier for each arc when landing on the stage, any arc looks like a lower arc based on timing alone, further confusing your opponent. The fastest Flip Jump arc is one of the best options here, as ZSS will soft land on the stage with all of the momentum from the arc, causing her to slide very far across the stage. If this is done instantly off a ledge grab, I'd wager she even has enough invinciblity to bust through a lot of edge pokes.
I can't believe this didn't come to me sooner...I will try this next time i play. If I get a funny result that catches my friends off guard, I'll come back and like your post...
 

ph00tbag

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Well, keep in mind, this was written for 3.02. Apparently, the ability to change the height was taken out in 3.5, so be advised.
 
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