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Flags - We need a thread about 'em

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So flags seem to matter a lot. However, I can't find anywhere where it's described how exactly they work, what flag is which, etc. Like, I look at MK's jab and see an incomprehensible jumble in the flags thing. Nice... what does what? It's hard to figure out if you have a guide, I'm assuming, but right now I'm just stumbling in the dark. Am I the only one?

magus in the PSA guide said:
Nononono. The hitbox element flag is only the last 2 digits. Changing it to that entire thing droughboi listed will change
lots of properties of the hitbox to whatever the original move was that flag set was copy/pasted from.

Element:
------YY

Important
The 2nd to last digit is SHARED with some other flag (possibly part of the SFX flag?), so the 1st digit will be combined with
this other flag's digit. This other flag seems to always either be 0, 4, or 8

This other flag could look something like this:

(Part of SFX?):
------X-
or
-----XX-
or
----XXX-


So considering both of them, it could look like this:
------ZY
or
-----XZY
or
----XXZY

...with Z being the combined value of the 1st digit of the element and the last digit of that other flag. If the last 2 digits on the original
flags are ------45, and the original element of the hitbox is Fire (05), then to make that instead have Darkness (13) the end of the flag would
now be ------53, Normal Hit (00) would be ------40, Aura (15) ------55, etc. If it was originally Fire and the last 2 flag digits were ------85,
Darkness would be ------93, Normal Hit ------80, Aura ------95.


This is an old elements list, but it seems to match what's used here as well for the one's I've seen:

YY
00 hit
01 none
02 slash
03 electricity
04 Ice
05 Flame
06 Coin
07 Cape
08 Slip
09 Sleep
0A none
0B impale
0C Dizzy
0E Flower
0F none (gives hitstun to non-flinching moves)
10 none
11 slash 2
12 hit 2
13 Darkness
14 Paralyze
15 Aura
16 Impale 2
17 Knock Down
18 No Flinch

Again, don't overwrite the 2nd to last digit with the element's 1st digit. The 0 or 1 in the element is combined with the 2nd to last flag digit
which is also shared with a different flag.
 

Eldiran

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Location
Pennsylvania
You aren't. The only part of flags I understand for sure is the element, and setting whether it hits ground or air.

Here is all the info I have on element, taken from very old quotes.

The hitbox element flag is only the last 2 digits. Changing it to that entire thing droughboi listed will change lots of properties of the hitbox to whatever the original move was that flag set was copy/pasted from.

Element:
------YY

Important
The 2nd to last digit is SHARED with some other flag (possibly part of the SFX flag?), so the 1st digit will be combined with this other flag's digit. This other flag seems to always either be 0, 4, or 8

This other flag could look something like this:

(Part of SFX?):
------X-
or
-----XX-
or
----XXX-


So considering both of them, it could look like this:
------ZY
or
-----XZY
or
----XXZY

...with Z being the combined value of the 1st digit of the element and the last digit of that other flag. If the last 2 digits on the original flags are ------45, and the original element of the hitbox is Fire (05), then to make that instead have Darkness (13) the end of the flag would now be ------53, Normal Hit (00) would be ------40, Aura (15) ------55, etc. If it was originally Fire and the last 2 flag digits were ------85, Darkness would be ------93, Normal Hit ------80, Aura ------95.

Again, don't overwrite the 2nd to last digit with the element's 1st digit. The 0 or 1 in the element is combined with the 2nd to last flag digit which is also shared with a different flag.
Here is the info on ground or air-specific offensive collisions, found by Kirk:

Don't know if this was known yet, but I'll share what I found last night.

In the flag values for offensive collisions, there is a pair of numbers that seem to check whether or not your opponent is on the ground or in the air.

Like this:

3A831C42

From what I remember, the first number has to do with priority and the last three digits have to do with the graphic effect and sound effect of the attack.

That's all I really knew before, but I've come to find the bolded digits work in determining whether that particular collision bubble will appear or not given the condition of your opponent being on the ground or in the air.

In-game Examples:

Ike's Eruption: I found that there were two collision bubbles on the tip of the sword: both the exact same size and the exact same position. The only thing different were their flag values and the trajectory they sent opponents. One of the collision bubbles has a fire graphic, fire SFX, and sends them upwards, while the other bubble has no graphic, sword SFX, and spikes them downward. After much testing, the spiking bubble would only connect if the opponent was on the ground and the fire bubble would only connect if the opponent was in the air. They had flag values like this:

32810682 - Sword effect, spiking collision bubble.
32821085 - Fire effect collision bubble.

The noticeably different values are the ones I mentioned before. 10 and 21. I first tried swapping the flag values of these two collisions with positive results: The spiking collision now only worked on aerial opponents and the fire collision only effected grounded opponents. I then tried swapping these flag values with other attacks, such as a jab or a tilt. Results were promising: I made Ike's jab only connect with an opponent if they were on the ground and Ike's dash attack only connect with opponent who were in the air.

From looking at other attacks, these are some values I see:

10 - Offensive collision bubble will only be in effect if opponent is grounded.
21 - Offensive collision bubble will only be in effect if opponent is in the air.
22 - Offensive collision bubble will only be in effect if opponent is in the air.
11, 30, 31 - Offensive collision bubble will appear regardless of opponent's state.

Zelda's Dair - The strong hitbox lasts for 1 frame at the beginning of the attack, followed by the weak collision lasting for 10 frames after. The strong hitbox comes out on frame 14. If you use Zelda's Dair on a grounded opponent, you will NEVER see the strong hitbox, and the first frame the attack hits is on frame 15. It essentially skips that collision bubble entirely...it never shows. This collision had a flag value of 3BC220C3, the 22 being the determining factor as mentioned above. The weak hitbox appears later with flag values of 39830400.

Also found this in Ike's Aether. The part where Ike is plummeting downward, the sword sends opponents at a downward trajectory if they are in the air and in an upward trajectory if they are grounded.

So yeah, perhaps a longer explanation then what was needed, but I like to type sometimes. What I don't know yet is what other values in that position will cause, or whether they affect a different property. But I do know that these values work, and I can replicate the effect on any collision bubble.
 
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Hmm, okay. So the last is the element. Here's a question for you-is there a semi-complete list of flags anywhere other than the one in the PSA guide, which is just elements? Lemme grab that one and relocate it to the OP.

EDIT: Is there anything like a spoiler block BBCode? Like, an expanding box?
 

Eldiran

Smash Lord
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Do you mean this?

Elements:
00 hit
01 none
02 slash
03 electricity
04 Ice
05 Flame
06 Coin
07 Cape
08 Slip
09 Sleep
0A none
0B impale
0C Stun
0E Flower
0F none (gives hitstun to non-flinching moves)
10 none
11 slash 2
12 hit 2
13 Darkness
14 Stun
15 Aura
16 Impale 2
17 Knock Down
18 No Flinch
 

Isatis

If specified, this will repl[0x00000000]ce the
Premium
BRoomer
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reverite
Who said anything about locking the thread? It's actually some very useful PSA information

BPC: No, sorry
 

.Fade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
345
Isn't the priority only the first digit? Like X------- only?
I'm pretty sure it's:

3 - Normal Priority [C. Falcon]
2 - Transcendent Priority [Metaknight]
1 - Does Not Clash, Always Goes Through [Zelda's U-Air]
0 - Does Not Hit =.=

~~~

Also, can anyone confirm if any of these are true? I figure these go here too:
[Quoted from KCMM]
Special Offensive Collisions
X-------
"0= Nothing. So is great for Wind Attacks that produce no damage, but has Knockback.
1 is intangible (knockback but no %. like squirtle's side B)
2 is invincible (no knockback or %) beastness"
3= Refection. Which I Similar to Fox`s Down B."

It sounds kinda fishy, but meh. -.-
 

shanus

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Special offensive collisions hit only in one direction, aka dont have reversible knockback.

Also, a lot of misinformation is spreading in this thread. Just read the OP of the big PSA list thread for some information on flags.
 

IndigoFenix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
327
Let's make the things we know a bit more concise:

12345678

1,2 Details unknown, but presumed to involve priority
3 - Unknown
4,5 - if 10, the attack only hits opponents on the ground.
if 21 or 22, the attack will only hit opponents in the air.
if 11, 30, or 31, the attack will hit regardless of on ground or in air.
6 - Unknown
7 - Always has a default value of 0, 4, or 8. Difference between them is unknown.
8 - Along with 7, controls hit effects. Using the following list, if the number starts with 1, add 1 to the value already in 7. If not, leave 7 the way it is.

00 hit
01 none
02 slash
03 electricity
04 Ice
05 Flame
06 Coin
07 Cape
08 Slip
09 Sleep
0A none
0B impale ('grounded')
0C Stun
0E Flower
0F none (gives hitstun to non-flinching moves)
10 none
11 slash 2
12 hit 2
13 Darkness
14 Stun
15 Aura
16 Impale 2
17 Knock Down
18 No Flinch

So far, we only seem to have a complete understanding of the last digit - everything else has some unknown property attached to it.
 
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Special offensive collisions hit only in one direction, aka dont have reversible knockback.

Also, a lot of misinformation is spreading in this thread. Just read the OP of the big PSA list thread for some information on flags.
Yeah... I have no idea what's real and what isn't; I'm using the stuff from the PSA guide.

About special offensive collisions: why are all windboxes those, and what are the two unknown things at the bottom?
 

IndigoFenix

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
327
Yeah... I have no idea what's real and what isn't; I'm using the stuff from the PSA guide.

About special offensive collisions: why are all windboxes those, and what are the two unknown things at the bottom?
I'm pretty sure windboxes are all special offensive collisions because their entire purpose is to always push in the same direction. I'm not sure if you can make a regular offensive collision into a windbox, but if you could, it would be kind of weird... unless it was just pushing everyone away from you. But I don't think anyone has that.
As for the two unknown things at the bottom... I have no idea. I don't think anyone really knows how those work.
 

[TSON]

Hella.
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The unknowns were explained in the PSA List Topic.

Unknown 1 is how many frames before the hitbox repeats and hits again without stale move negation (Wait this long, then hit again)
Unknown 2 had something to do with clanking i think, don't remember fully
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
8,133
Special offensive collisions hit only in one direction, aka dont have reversible knockback.
I thought special collisions have a byte for the option of non-reversible or reversible. I don't recall it being purely non-reversible. *shrug*

IIRC it has something to do with the first byte in the second Undefined parameter methinks. 0 for non-reversible, 2 for reversible, seems some also have other values, for example TL's dair windbox has a F.

Yeah...this thread useful it is. :012:

We must master flags obv
 
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