Fixing Mario

[Sleek Media]

Let's pretend we're in a magical land where Sakurai intends to full balance the next Smash Bros, and he frequents Smashboards for ideas, and Nintendo scraps the WiiU's tablet controller in exchange for the ability to dispense unlimited ice cream.

How would you make Mario competitive in the next Smash? I'm talkin' 50/50 matchups around the board, you know, like he's supposedly designed to be. Assume other characters keep their gimmicks (Falco's stupid lasers and chaingrab, etc), but op moves get balanced (*****nado, snake's utilt, etc).

This is just a fun discussion. Here are some starting ideas:

Cape Glide -
Mario has one of the worst and most predictable recoveries in the game, saved only by cape stalling. Let's fix this by allowing him to glide. Fits his games, and helps out with one of his weaknesses. Alternatively, the ability to slow-fall out of a cape would also help. Anything, really.

Melee Reflection -
What did they do to the cape's hitboxes in this game, anyway? Forward caping a bomb blows up the bomb? Shouldn't the reflecting move reflect the projectile? The cape was Mario's go-to gimping move in Melee. Let's bring that back and give it the range it needs to beat out glides and recoveries head-on. That would make up for his lack of power. And certainly no more of this "Snake and Game & Watch get another upB if you somehow manage to cape their recoveries offstage" nonsense.

Serious Fireballs -
Nobody else has a move that has transitioned so badly from their actual games to Smash as Mario's fireballs. Those things are supposed to be FAST, and travel. Double/triple the range, and double the speed and firing rate, but take off a % or three for compensation. These things need to be like Falco lasers - a reliable kill setup, and a reliable camp for forcing an approach, since ours is so bad.

 

[Solharath]

A down tilt.

 

[TMario]

A down tilt.

If this was Facebook, I would "Like" this SO hard

 

[superderob]

cape glide is a really good idea!

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

If they keep Fludd they should introduce the other nozzles somehow.

Hover or Rocket nozzle preferrably, they would be great for him. But since Sunshine isn't really relevant anymore they'll probably scrap it.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

A two-part recovery in which after Mario's initial jump, he immediately pulls out his cape and can fly in any direction, similar to Meta Knight's shuttle loop (the initial loop and then the glide).

 

[Capeflip]

Mario being able to use his hammer and more projectiles from his games world be nice

 

[Cezz624]

Mario needs his recovery fixed, so I say implementing the Mario Tornado to be able to rise just like the Luigi Cyclone. And give Mario a bit more knockback and damage to all his smash attacks.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Give him more range and make his commitments safer.

 

[Solharath]

Guys, Mario is fine(outside of his dtilt).

He's balanced.

Everyone else isn't.

 

[ThatGuy]

I would not fix Mario. I would fix the game he was in.

 

[Capeflip]

I would not fix Mario. I would fix the game he was in.

Ha ha! Good one

 

[Z'zgashi]

Guys, Mario is fine(outside of his dtilt).

He's balanced.

Everyone else isn't.

His recovery.
His range.
His kill power.
His dtilt.

None of those are balanced in the slightest.

 

[yoshi8984]

Mario needs bigger hitboxes, better recovery, a better D-Tilt and FLUDD needs to be less situational. Also I think his killing moves could use a little more KO power.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Besides criticizing his recovery, I'm gonna be more broad with everything else. He's meant to be balanced. If he were dead middle like he is in melee, it would be nice, but overall, more like melee Mario.

 

[BSP]

He's below dead middle in melee though

Mario can be balanced, but he needs to have at least one thing that stands out imo. Look at Doc. Basically Mario, but a bit more KO power and look what that does for him. Mario with a little more range (which got nerfed from melee for some reason...) and KO power would be fine

And old tornado that can be mashed like Luigi's now.

 

[mars16]

I think all Mario needs is More Power and Recovery..

And some characers need to just get reed of broke **** like chaingrabbing.

And by god I was playing Porject m THAT shining sht need to go. I think thats what broke Fox AND fALCO.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Imo he still needs a bit more range, but for the most part just Recovery/Power like everyone else is saying. Big emphasis on Recovery though, cuz being able to safely play offstage is REALLY important in this game.

 

[gothrax]

Hmm I thought of something a while back
and its that mario should be able to throw two fireballs at a time yu know? This would make sense to cuz mario could do this in the original super mario bros :/

 

[vato_break]

if he footstools someone they should automatically die

 

[JuxtaposeX]

if he footstools someone they should automatically die

yeah, this definitely

 

[Coolwhip]

Have the fludd not only edge guarding, but to also damage you as well.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1znFHVFuxt8#t=1m35

Says forget you

 

[BSP]

Hmm I thought of something a while back
and its that mario should be able to throw two fireballs at a time yu know? This would make sense to cuz mario could do this in the original super mario bros :/

This would be cool, and he needs less cooldown on the FBs too. They're so fast in every other game except smash.

 

[MTMario]

1. Make his dair work like the spin jump from super mario world, making him hop multiple times when landing on an opponent (Pressuring shields)
2. FLUDD canceling and faster spray/charge (maintain spacing w/o punishment)
3. Metal cap (Super armor fixes his reach problem at low %'s)

 

[Coolwhip]

1. Make his dair work like the spin jump from super mario world, making him hop multiple times when landing on an opponent (Pressuring shields)
2. FLUDD canceling and faster spray/charge (maintain spacing w/o punishment)
3. Metal cap (Super armor fixes his reach problem at low %'s)

Sounds like you've been playin brawl minus, haven't you?

 

[Veggi]

1.) I think Mario should have the ability to pick a power-up before the match and then activate it by taunting, which would just show him tossing it out and be very quick. If he taunts while he is already powered up he just looks around in his pockets and then shrugs. He gets the power-up available to him again every time he loses a stock, but he loses it when he takes 50%. I thought what they did with the metal cap in Brawl - was really cool. It could definitely be expanded upon.

2.) His dash attack should do more damage, go farther and hit people away from him and with more knock-back.

3.) FLUDD has a really long lasting stream that can be aimed more flexibly, he also doesn't have to charge it. It just shoots until he runs out of water. The water is refilled every time he loses a stock or he touches water.

4.) His neutral b is replaced with the Luma Spin that spins enemies around in circles if it connects, making it so that if they try to recover immediately after being hit they will do the move in the opposite direction, making it's use for this just as useful as the cape. It also reflects solid projectiles (as opposed to Ness, Lucas, G&W that only work with energy projectiles.) When he uses this move in the air, he gets a boost upward. This move has no hitstun and hit people away from him, so people will not get their up b back if you hit them. To balance it, you can only do this once in the air before touching the ground. If you press down while in this move in the air, you while home in on the nearest target below you and do a lot of damage. If you perform it on the ground and press down it will hit low with Mario's foot.

5.) His new up b is the hover nozzle that pushes people downward slightly if it hits them and it has no hitstun. If you up b on the ground, it's the same one he has in Brawl.

6.) If you hold the jab button, he releases a steady stream of flame right in front of him that hits constantly. Similar to the way Pit's two types of jabs work.

7.) Forward smash is a very strong hammer.

8.) His new side b is whatever power you picked. Certain powers would not have all their abilities activated by side b though. For example you would hold jump to hover like the tanuki and you can glide with the cape by holding jump. Fireballs would be much better than they are in Brawl btw. They would be bigger, last longer and you would be able to shoot two right after each other.

9.) His down air is his ground pound. It is used as both an attack and a way to get to the ground faster.

10.) Mario can crawl. If you run and then crouch, you will slide. It would help him a lot with projectiles in the same way it helps with projectiles in his 2D games. If you are crouching and get hit, you will take half damage and won't move. If you tap up after pressing down, you will do a back-flip. If you tap down, then up while running you will do a long jump. If you are running and press back and then jump, you will do a side flip.

13.) Down smash is stronger.

14.) If Mario footstools someone it does 20% and has a lot of hitstun.

 

[BSP]

To be fair, if Mario's footstool does damage, Luigi's should too.

 

[Veggi]

It should. Bowser's should do 40% imo.

 

[Sleek Media]

Glad to see some people are coming up with some genuinely neat ideas.

1.) I think Mario should have the ability to pick a power-up before the match and then activate it by taunting, which would just show him tossing it out and be very quick. If he taunts while he is already powered up he just looks around in his pockets and then shrugs. He gets the power-up available to him again every time he loses a stock, but he loses it when he takes 50%. I thought what they did with the metal cap in Brawl - was really cool. It could definitely be expanded upon.

8.) His new side b is whatever power you picked. Certain powers would not have all their abilities activated by side b though. For example you would hold jump to hover like the tanuki and you can glide with the cape by holding jump. Fireballs would be much better than they are in Brawl btw. They would be bigger, last longer and you would be able to shoot two right after each other.

This is my favorite idea that anyone has posted so far. It'd be a great reference to the RPGs (especially the detail of reaching into his overalls), and opens up alot of possibilities for mixing up Mario's game. If you've played Kid Icarus Uprising, you've seen how the powers (essentially Brawl's stickers) provide balance and counters to any possible setup. There's a very good chance Sakurai is going to do something like this for the whole cast, but even if he does, this would be a nice touch for Mario.

The only thing I disagree with here is the control for the new moves. I think you could get really creative and take things a step further, having the power-specific special replace different B moves. Fireballs are obviously neutral B, but you might also have something like the cloud suit that lets you make platforms with up B. Perhaps certain suits could have little bonuses, like crouching in a hammer bros suit defending the same way Link's shield does.

9.) His down air is his ground pound. It is used as both an attack and a way to get to the ground faster.

He definitely needs something along these lines. If Fox, Falco, or God forbid MK pops you up on a stage like FD, gg. They're so much faster in the air that they can just chase you down whether you airdodge their up air or not. Mario needs a way to land and continue the fight.

 

[Veggi]

The only thing I disagree with here is the control for the new moves. I think you could get really creative and take things a step further, having the power-specific special replace different B moves. Fireballs are obviously neutral B, but you might also have something like the cloud suit that lets you make platforms with up B. Perhaps certain suits could have little bonuses, like crouching in a hammer bros suit defending the same way Link's shield does.

I'm glad you like it. The reason I assigned it to side b is because some parts of Mario's moveset make sense being consistent. For example, no matter how hard you beat on Mario, he's still going to have an apricot luma inside his hat and FLUDD equipped. However, power ups are not consistent so I assigned them all to side b. For example, if he was using the up b cloud platforms, then what would his new side b be? What if he was using a power up using side b and wanted to use up b? That's pretty much the reason. Yeah, the bonuses is what I was referring to with the holding jump to glide with the cape kind of thing. For example maybe tapping down twice and then shield would turn tanuki Mario to stone. There's probably an easier input for that, but at the moment I can't think of one. I just want all the characters in Brawl to be more interesting and loyal to their games like they are in Brawl Minus.

I think Brawl, or at least just Mario and Luigi would be a lot more fun if they incorporated more of the aspects from each character's games into gameplay. I think it would also help with the balance of the game, player creativity, strategy, and freedom. For example, the option to choose between two ultras in Super Street Fighter 4 were great additions and so were being able to choose assists in Marvel vs. Capcom and then being able to choose any grounded move in the game as an assist in Skullgirls. It really increases the depth of the game significantly while still being very appealing to new players.

I also would really like Mario's interesting jumping abilities to be incorporated. Wall jumping was a good start, but because of most stage structures it is not very useful. Being able to jump in many different fashions is part of what makes Mario Mario.

 

[Z'zgashi]

It should. Bowser's should do 40% imo.

Peach's should do 10%.

 

[Veggi]

I just based Bowser's percent on Super Paper Mario, where Mario, Luigi, and Peach all do the same amount of damage and Bowser does twice as much.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Bowser shouldn't be jumping

 

[BSP]

Mario's cape should have melee Mario's range, Brawl Mario physics (reversing momentum and controls for a bit), with Doc's damage, with Melee Mario lift for recovery.

Oh, and turning around in shield. Oh my god, that would be SUCH a godsend in this game...

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I once mentioned the idea of spending coins that you earn through Up-B midmatch for various items. (Fire flower, mushroom, metal cap, 1-up, various things)

Different taunts = get different items. I was actually proposing this to a Brawl- guy before they put in Metal Mario through a taunt. Doubt I actually had any impact in that though.

Plus Up-B would get used sooooooooooo much more, which is super hot.

 

[Coolwhip]

How about mario's dair so he can rise like luigi's cyclone? Good knock back & bigger hitbox....

 

[BSP]

I once mentioned the idea of spending coins that you earn through Up-B midmatch for various items. (Fire flower, mushroom, metal cap, 1-up, various things)

Different taunts = get different items. I was actually proposing this to a Brawl- guy before they put in Metal Mario through a taunt. Doubt I actually had any impact in that though.

Plus Up-B would get used sooooooooooo much more, which is super hot.

That'd be cool. Or what if he leveled up like Frank West in UMVC3 and you got a different form depending on your amount of coins?

Lvl. 1 would be terrible, but Mario's already pretty bad to begin with, so it wouldn't be that bad lol.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

I honestly think that Mario should have his counterpart's (Doc) stats from Melee.

 

[mars16]

It is what it is.................

and I like IT!!!