Fix Mewtwo's hurtbox!

[krinklez]

The Ultimate version of Mewtwo feels great in almost every way, even with the nerfs to his NAir and Dtilt... all except for this RIDICULOUS tail hurtbox. It's a constant source of frustration getting hit while dashing (tail trails so far behind), losing trades to everything, getting spiked when getting hit on the tail during an UAir, Richter's axe catching the tail on it's way down, etc. Please fix this Sakurai! Otherwise he is such a fun character.

 

[Gotmilk0112]

Yeah, feels like Melee all over again with a massive hurtbox on his tail, getting hit by things that look like they were a mile away.

 

[Ienzo97]

I feel like patches might address this, it seems off compared to other tail hurtboxes. Probably wishful thinking on my part though.

 

[Lanny]

The huge hurtbox is definitely annoying but I feel like that's kind of just part of the character. DK or Gannon are big too, big characters get big hurt boxes, generally you get something to compensate for it. A lot of big characters are heavy, which mewtwo isn't, but you do get a very safe recovery.

IDK, I at least see why the hurtbox is what it is, it's annoying but I'm not sure it's really broken.

 

[krinklez]

The huge hurtbox is definitely annoying but I feel like that's kind of just part of the character. DK or Gannon are big too, big characters get big hurt boxes, generally you get something to compensate for it. A lot of big characters are heavy, which mewtwo isn't, but you do get a very safe recovery.

IDK, I at least see why the hurtbox is what it is, it's annoying but I'm not sure it's really broken.

I don't mind a big hurt box but visually and by feel something feels very off with having the tail included. For me it's especially noticeable when dashing away and my head is already moving well in the opposite direction yet the tail trails so far behind that it feels like I should be well out of the way yet still getting hit. In addition, getting hit with an attack on the tip of any of the tail moves (Tilts, Uair, Bair) and trading or worse yet losing a trade feels so wrong when the body is so far away and the attack should be safe.

 

[Downshift]

He didn't have this big tail hurtbox in Smash4 did he?
So that means they intentionally increased it just for Ultimate, and I doubt they're gonna undo a deliberate change with a patch at this point.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

The huge hurtbox is definitely annoying but I feel like that's kind of just part of the character. DK or Gannon are big too, big characters get big hurt boxes, generally you get something to compensate for it. A lot of big characters are heavy, which mewtwo isn't, but you do get a very safe recovery.

IDK, I at least see why the hurtbox is what it is, it's annoying but I'm not sure it's really broken.

Those characters are also super heavyweights, Mewtwo is a lightweight.

 

[Lanny]

Those characters are also super heavyweights, Mewtwo is a lightweight.

Right, which I mentioned in the post you quoted. Big hurtboxes are bad so being heavy balances that out, but it's not the only thing that can make up for having big hurtboxes, for example a very safe recovery helps you live longer even if the weight works against you.

Although I'll admit, I'm having and harder time with mewtwo as the meta progresses and people get better. It does feel like the hurtbox is a big part of that. The tail doesn't even get me that often, it's his height and difficulty getting out of disadvantage, feints aren't all that great since you're so big. It's still early though, even if mewtwo doesn't end up being top tier I think there are some matchups he does really well in.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

Right, which I mentioned in the post you quoted. Big hurtboxes are bad so being heavy balances that out, but it's not the only thing that can make up for having big hurtboxes, for example a very safe recovery helps you live longer even if the weight works against you.

Although I'll admit, I'm having and harder time with mewtwo as the meta progresses and people get better. It does feel like the hurtbox is a big part of that. The tail doesn't even get me that often, it's his height and difficulty getting out of disadvantage, feints aren't all that great since you're so big. It's still early though, even if mewtwo doesn't end up being top tier I think there are some matchups he does really well in.

Ah, I should've payed better attention. Sorry about that. I don't think the hurtbox is "broken" as some may say, but I do think it's pretty unfair to get spiked because your character model is permanently an 'L' shape.

 

[Windfall]

I thought his tail Hurtbox is only active a few frames of certain attacks. Does anyone remember hearing this?

 

[Skyred006]

It’s a big problem. I haven’t been complaining because I think Mewtwo has very strong options, but in reality, the tail hurt box and Mewtwo’s disadvantage outweighs his amazing advantage.

It’s the most annoying thing in the world losing sets by getting clipped by things that really shouldn’t have connected

 

[krinklez]

Ridiculous. Check out 1:02.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjLexcXa7s

 

[krinklez]

6:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxq1vrHsofA

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Some are saying the tail is still too vulnerable but well, it's a start, among Mewtwo's other buffs. Baby steps.

 

[MERPIS]

View attachment 233035

Some are saying the tail is still too vulnerable but well, it's a start, among Mewtwo's other buffs. Baby steps.

it's not even a buff

 

[Kiligar]

You complained about the hurtbox, they changed it, along with extra buffs to an already oppressive character once Mewtwo obtains advantage. They could have left the tail the same. This is yet another win for Mewtwo, every time I read this forum there seems to be pessimistic responses to M2 buffs. Look at Kirby, Little MAC, K. Rool. This patch was a blessing for Mewtwo that could have never happened.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

As a King K main I agree. I feel like Mewtwo still has flaws, but the last two patches he got significant buffs. I feel like Mewtwo is a strong character in the making.

Honestly I came here to see how happy everyone would be about the buffs, but I get it.

 

[Downshift]

it's not even a buff

What do you mean? Did they only reduce it by 1 pixel or something?
Or are you saying it will have zero impact on actual gameplay?

Regardless...
The buff to his reflector is a big deal. Dsmash might actually have benefits over Fsmash now too. I kinda want to bust out Smash4 again and compare how Ultimate M2's new Dsmash endlag compares to Sm4sh's Ganon's UpSmash endlag. That could be a great baiting tool.
Upsmash didn't need even more launch buffs, it needs a buff to the lower hitbox to scoop up those pesky short fighters. Needs to be more like Shulk or at least ZSS's UpSmash, and less like Samus'.

No weight buff tho. :/

 

[krinklez]

So far so good with regards to the improved tail hitbox. It feels less intrusive though still a tad big, most noticeable when getting PK-fired and trying to mash out of it by turning around, only to have the tail stuck in the flames further than Mewtwo's body every was. Also, I haven't yet seen how it interacts when doing a Uair or Bair like at 6:41 in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxq1vrHsofA

Remaining gripes with Mewtwo that feel off:
1) Nair visual does not match its hitbox... at all. Gets beat out every time by characters with similar moves like Pikachu Nair. Needs a bigger hitbox and more priority.
2) If Fair is used too close to the ground, the visual and sound will come out yet no hitbox will be registered. Feels like total garbage seeing the purple swipe go through the opponent and nothing happens.

Otherwise with the newest patch he feels pretty balanced and no longer as frustrating to play.

 

[MERPIS]

He sucks

2) If Fair is used too close to the ground, the visual and sound will come out yet no hitbox will be registered. Feels like total garbage seeing the purple swipe go through the opponent and nothing happens.

Stop using it so late the hitbox is much bigger vertically than it looks

Also NAAAAAAAAAAAIR, that move fricking sucks I'm telling you its literally his worst aerial if not his worst move outright