First time using mario in Friendlies, thoughts?

[roysrevengefgc]

I have been playing the Mario brothers and Dr Mario for the past 2 weeks and definitely want to keep one as a secondary. Currently leaning towards Mario or Dr Mario. Played him for the first time in a friendly today against my classmate who is a dual main with King Dedede and Roy. Unfortunately my classmate kept closing my phone and lost most of the footage lol only managed to catch the end and it's not centered lol but I'll keep adding to the thread when I play them again tomorrow. From the footage I am posting, let me know what I can improve on and what you notice I should include in my game play. Thanks, anything helps!

 

[SwissMagic]

stay with it, mario is the only deep character in smash 4, with his insane combo game, but doctor mario is a little bit more interesting

 

[roysrevengefgc]

stay with it, mario is the only deep character in smash 4, with his insane combo game, but doctor mario is a little bit more interesting

anything Mario specific i should focus on??

 

[Pixel_]

Most of your problems seem to be with fundamentals rather than mario himself, but I do have some tips.
(also disclaimer I'm not a mario main)

• You have a habit of rolling backwards. Roll habits work well at lower level play, but becomes really easy to punish once your opponent realizes they can just read it and smash attack you for it. Instead of rolling, try dashing, walking, or running into shield (pressing shield while running).
• You use lots of dash attack for approaching, which is unsafe on shield. Not sure about mario's approach options, but you should at least go for dash grab instead every now and then due to mario's throw combos
• Land with f-air less. It's unsafe on block, and I think it's unsafe on hit at low percents, too.
• You start full hopping for no reason at 0:55. Not a good idea since that puts you at a disadvantageous situation (I mean, he almost hit you with usmash). Mario's short hops lets him b-air and d-air without being above the opponent (well, at least not by too much), so if you want to jump, use short hop.
• Punish on block. At 1:02, roy does an extremely unsafe dash attack, and you decide to roll away. Do a jump cancel usmash out of shield (while shielding, press jump and then usmash quickly afterwards. This works because shield can be cancelled by jump, and jump can be cancelled by usmash). If he didn't cross over your shield, you also could've done other OoS (Out of Shield) options, like grab.
• You fish too much for kills. Instead of throwing out random smash attacks, punish the opponent. He seems to have a habit of rolling backwards too, which can be punished with a running usmash. You can also block one of his punishable moves and usmash OoS, or whiff punish him (at 0:53 he whiffs a dsmash, and you could've punished that with a running usmash).
• Learn how to reverse usmash. Usmash has bigger range at the back, and since you use running usmash a lot, this should help you out. To do it: run > turn around (e.g. if you're running right, turn left) > jump cancel usmash (the jump cancels the turnaround animation). Might seem hard at first but gets a lot easier with practice.

mario is the only deep character in smash 4

This is just incorrect.

 

[SmolNozomi]

Remember to charge F.L.U.U.D after a kill.
But don't go for the full charge, just use that time wisely

 

[roysrevengefgc]

Most of your problems seem to be with fundamentals rather than mario himself, but I do have some tips.
(also disclaimer I'm not a mario main)

• You have a habit of rolling backwards. Roll habits work well at lower level play, but becomes really easy to punish once your opponent realizes they can just read it and smash attack you for it. Instead of rolling, try dashing, walking, or running into shield (pressing shield while running).
• You use lots of dash attack for approaching, which is unsafe on shield. Not sure about mario's approach options, but you should at least go for dash grab instead every now and then due to mario's throw combos
• Land with f-air less. It's unsafe on block, and I think it's unsafe on hit at low percents, too.
• You start full hopping for no reason at 0:55. Not a good idea since that puts you at a disadvantageous situation (I mean, he almost hit you with usmash). Mario's short hops lets him b-air and d-air without being above the opponent (well, at least not by too much), so if you want to jump, use short hop.
• Punish on block. At 1:02, roy does an extremely unsafe dash attack, and you decide to roll away. Do a jump cancel usmash out of shield (while shielding, press jump and then usmash quickly afterwards. This works because shield can be cancelled by jump, and jump can be cancelled by usmash). If he didn't cross over your shield, you also could've done other OoS (Out of Shield) options, like grab.
• You fish too much for kills. Instead of throwing out random smash attacks, punish the opponent. He seems to have a habit of rolling backwards too, which can be punished with a running usmash. You can also block one of his punishable moves and usmash OoS, or whiff punish him (at 0:53 he whiffs a dsmash, and you could've punished that with a running usmash).
• Learn how to reverse usmash. Usmash has bigger range at the back, and since you use running usmash a lot, this should help you out. To do it: run > turn around (e.g. if you're running right, turn left) > jump cancel usmash (the jump cancels the turnaround animation). Might seem hard at first but gets a lot easier with practice.

This is just incorrect.

Thanks for the feedback, it REALLY helped. Gonna keep practicing and playing more one on one matches

 

[roysrevengefgc]

Most of your problems seem to be with fundamentals rather than mario himself, but I do have some tips.
(also disclaimer I'm not a mario main)

• You have a habit of rolling backwards. Roll habits work well at lower level play, but becomes really easy to punish once your opponent realizes they can just read it and smash attack you for it. Instead of rolling, try dashing, walking, or running into shield (pressing shield while running).
• You use lots of dash attack for approaching, which is unsafe on shield. Not sure about mario's approach options, but you should at least go for dash grab instead every now and then due to mario's throw combos
• Land with f-air less. It's unsafe on block, and I think it's unsafe on hit at low percents, too.
• You start full hopping for no reason at 0:55. Not a good idea since that puts you at a disadvantageous situation (I mean, he almost hit you with usmash). Mario's short hops lets him b-air and d-air without being above the opponent (well, at least not by too much), so if you want to jump, use short hop.
• Punish on block. At 1:02, roy does an extremely unsafe dash attack, and you decide to roll away. Do a jump cancel usmash out of shield (while shielding, press jump and then usmash quickly afterwards. This works because shield can be cancelled by jump, and jump can be cancelled by usmash). If he didn't cross over your shield, you also could've done other OoS (Out of Shield) options, like grab.
• You fish too much for kills. Instead of throwing out random smash attacks, punish the opponent. He seems to have a habit of rolling backwards too, which can be punished with a running usmash. You can also block one of his punishable moves and usmash OoS, or whiff punish him (at 0:53 he whiffs a dsmash, and you could've punished that with a running usmash).
• Learn how to reverse usmash. Usmash has bigger range at the back, and since you use running usmash a lot, this should help you out. To do it: run > turn around (e.g. if you're running right, turn left) > jump cancel usmash (the jump cancels the turnaround animation). Might seem hard at first but gets a lot easier with practice.

This is just incorrect.

Hey, do you mind taking a look at my sonic match up video? Need advice on that as well: https://smashboards.com/threads/so-i-def-have-a-sonic-problem.452449/#post-21895861

 

[SwissMagic]

anything Mario specific i should focus on??

Combo game, 100%

 

[SwissMagic]

Most of your problems seem to be with fundamentals rather than mario himself, but I do have some tips.
(also disclaimer I'm not a mario main)

• You have a habit of rolling backwards. Roll habits work well at lower level play, but becomes really easy to punish once your opponent realizes they can just read it and smash attack you for it. Instead of rolling, try dashing, walking, or running into shield (pressing shield while running).
• You use lots of dash attack for approaching, which is unsafe on shield. Not sure about mario's approach options, but you should at least go for dash grab instead every now and then due to mario's throw combos
• Land with f-air less. It's unsafe on block, and I think it's unsafe on hit at low percents, too.
• You start full hopping for no reason at 0:55. Not a good idea since that puts you at a disadvantageous situation (I mean, he almost hit you with usmash). Mario's short hops lets him b-air and d-air without being above the opponent (well, at least not by too much), so if you want to jump, use short hop.
• Punish on block. At 1:02, roy does an extremely unsafe dash attack, and you decide to roll away. Do a jump cancel usmash out of shield (while shielding, press jump and then usmash quickly afterwards. This works because shield can be cancelled by jump, and jump can be cancelled by usmash). If he didn't cross over your shield, you also could've done other OoS (Out of Shield) options, like grab.
• You fish too much for kills. Instead of throwing out random smash attacks, punish the opponent. He seems to have a habit of rolling backwards too, which can be punished with a running usmash. You can also block one of his punishable moves and usmash OoS, or whiff punish him (at 0:53 he whiffs a dsmash, and you could've punished that with a running usmash).
• Learn how to reverse usmash. Usmash has bigger range at the back, and since you use running usmash a lot, this should help you out. To do it: run > turn around (e.g. if you're running right, turn left) > jump cancel usmash (the jump cancels the turnaround animation). Might seem hard at first but gets a lot easier with practice.

This is just incorrect.

haha, only my opinion

 

[roysrevengefgc]

More Footage from friendlies, Classmates were loud af for no reason after telling them to stfu. Ended up distracting me and not allowing me to focus, Any advice/tips from this footage would be appreciated.

 

[SmolNozomi]

Learn to grab more often rather than using Smash attacks against shield. Remember to take the advice of learning how to down throw combo
IMPORTANT: DO NOT FOLLOW UP DOWN THROW TO UP SMASH AT HIGH PERCENTAGES, OR AT ALL.
INSTEAD USE UP AIR
WATCH YOUTUBE AND GET GOOD

 

[roysrevengefgc]

Learn to grab more often rather than using Smash attacks against shield. Remember to take the advice of learning how to down throw combo
IMPORTANT: DO NOT FOLLOW UP DOWN THROW TO UP SMASH AT HIGH PERCENTAGES, OR AT ALL.
INSTEAD USE UP AIR
WATCH YOUTUBE AND GET GOOD

will do, preciate it

 

[Pixel_]

Hey, do you mind taking a look at my sonic match up video? Need advice on that as well: https://smashboards.com/threads/so-i-def-have-a-sonic-problem.452449/#post-21895861

This is still less about matchup problems and more about fundamental mistakes.
(disclaimer again im not totally confident in my sonic matchup knowledge but hopefully this should help)

• You constantly charge smash attacks and hope sonic will run into it. This is bad because sonic can charge spin dash infinitely, so he can just wait until you throw out the smash attack and whiff punish. Even if he does release spin dash, you have to time it correctly, but he can also just jump over you. Do something like sh nair (short hop neutral air), which has a lingering hitbox and can interrupt his jump depending on how close you are. Since it has a lingering hitbox, you don't have to time it.
• Again, smash attacks are bad at low percents. It doesn't combo into anything (low reward), it has a ton of endlag (high risk), and it stales your kill moves. Do combo starters instead, or moves that are safe in general (e.g. RAR bair). I suggest looking into mario's moveset and figuring out which moves have better risk/reward, so that you know what moves to use before going into a match. Might sound hard, but it's not as hard as you think: dthrow can combo, but it doesn't have much endlag, while fsmash can't combo and has lots of endlag, for example.
• You have a habit of airdodging into the ground. This is bad because airdodge has a lot of landing lag, and you should only do it if you're sure he'll try to attack you (though even this can be frame trapped by some characters).
• You also do landing f-air every now and then, which I already explained is bad. If you have to do a landing aerial, do literally any of the other ones, which either have less endlag or can actually combo (e.g. uair).
• Shielding sonic's spin dash is fine since you can potentially punish what he does afterwards (e.g. if he jumps after spin dash, try to figure out what he does to land, and punish it. On one part he does a landing f-air, which I think is unsafe on shield). At 3:35, you could've anti-air'd him with usmash, but didn't do anything and got hit by f-air.
• The sonic also had really bad habits every now and then. He rolled a lot around the middle of the match, which you could've easily punished (literally by standing still, waiting for him to roll into you, and using usmash on reaction. You did do this later on, though). Plus, he also uses lots of fsmash. At 3:17, you were at the PERFECT position for a grab OoS, but decided to roll away instead.
• You use a lot of cape for no reason in neutral. Cape doesn't deal any real hitstun, so if the opponent does something like dsmash, you're gonna get hit. Generally it won't benefit you much (afaik anyway) -- maaaaybe if you caped him while he did his fsmash, he'd be vulnerable, but it might trade (and fsmash for a cape isn't a very good trade)
• Seriously stop running into his fsmash, at least jump over it or something
• Your recovery needs work. Getting to the ledge will usually be the safest option, and NEVER use your double jump unless you need to. At 3:46 you decide to burn your double jump AND go for the risky option of using f-air on the opponent. Think about that for a second. 1) By burning your double jump, you won't be able to recovery easily if you get thrown offstage again (which ended up getting you killed, as you can see), 2) f-air is unsafe on shield, so if he blocked it, you could've gotten punished (high risk), and 3) afaik f-air doesn't have many followups and wouldn't kill, so there's no reason to use it there (low reward). You could've just drifted towards the ledge and used Up B, which would've been a lot safer.

A lot of this is similar to what I've said before, so work on all of these before you ask for my help again.
Instead of thinking "my opponent is in front of me, so I'll use f-air," THINK about what mario's f-air is used for. Since it's unsafe, generally you should be using it for spikes offstage, NOT for hitting the opponents onstage while landing.
Also keep in mind risk/reward, at least to a basic degree. Fsmash is risky but has little reward at low percents (that's because its purpose is to kill the opponent), while dthrow is less risky but has lots of reward at low percents (because its purpose is to combo the opponent and build up damage on them).
Also, a pattern between a lot of your opponents is that they NEVER grab. Grab beats shield, shield beats attack, attack beats grab, BUT if they never grab, then you can literally shield everything they do, and, depending on the move, punish it out of shield.
Make sure you watch the opponent. You'll see that he does a ton of punishable things -- learn how to whiff punish, and, more importantly, how to punish out of shield.
I recommend watching the videos NINTENDO Galaxy gave you in the sonic thread, if you haven't already. And again, until you fix these mistakes, there's no point in asking me for help again since I've already gone over most of them.

 

[SwissMagic]

More Footage from friendlies, Classmates were loud af for no reason after telling them to stfu. Ended up distracting me and not allowing me to focus, Any advice/tips from this footage would be appreciated.

Rolling back is one of your problems, to fix it, just say to yourself, dedede is a fat target thats easy to hit, so just go in with a back air, dedede is super vulnerable in the air. Second problem, using attacks that wont hit, a fix for this problem, would be to just second guess yourself a little bit. So you can read his roll behind. Start this video at 18 seconds for what Im referencing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEjcZb02XXY
Another problem you have is letting your moves hit the ground, this is not effective, as you will take too much landing lag, and dedede will punish easily with a fast forward air.