Fire at will! General Fox matchup discussion thread

[DavemanCozy]

Time to do this again. Game's been out for a bit over a month. I feel it's a good time to start talking about Fox's matchups in the current metagame.

I'm gonna do things differently. Since the game may get patched with DLC characters added as well in the future, I'm not gonna bother making a master post until we all know that the game is stable. This also means that I'm not gonna bother scheduling matchup discussions.

If you're interested more in participating on scheduled JMU discussion or the like, the better place to do that is the Fox Discord. Here is the discord group link for Fox: https://discordapp.com/invite/0hB6V3lATNotfYQK

This thread rather is just gonna be a good place to ask questions about the matchup for Fox or against Fox vs <insert character here>. As discussion starts rolling, make sure you use the search function to look for discussion about particular characters in this thread.

Without further ado, I'm gonna get the ball rolling:

These two are just as problematic as Ryu was in S4 for Fox. U-tilt is gross against him, even though directional air-dodging helps. I tend to play a hit and run game against these two, mainly because I don't want to get hit and get KO'd at 60%. Fox being light means he dies early, and being a fast faller means it's especially bad for him.

Not all hope is lost though. Focus attack can be broken through thanks to Fox's multi-hit aerials and rapid moves. His movement and lasers help force the approach as well, I think that's his biggest strength in this matchup honestly. Using the mobility to keep them approaching and pelting damage on the counter-attack is how I feel Fox can win this MU.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Reserved post (just in case)

 

[Rhus]

I don't have a lot of technical input due to lack of experience, but I do find that Ken and Ryu are definitely matchups you have to play to Fox's unique mobility+projectile+reflector combination in order to succeed.

I haven't fought many of them in ultimate, but I have always found patience to be super key in this matchup as rushdown will just get you killed. You can't overwhelm them up close as well as some other characters so you have to play as safe as you can. However, I do find Uthrows to be particularly important here as vortexing Ryu/Ken is fairly easy and they absolutely cannot stop your Uair juggling.

 

[Kindra]

So everytime I read things about the Mega Man MU it's just "Fox bodies Mega Man hard" and "just down b", it's "9:1 in Fox' favour" ... well that hurts if that's true.

I watched pro sets (which at the highest level, Mega Man won more often than not as far as I'm aware) and look at my replays, but still, every Mega Man out there (so, all 5 of them) bodies me (at ~3,822,199 GSP as of posting, and yeah I know GSP ain't meaning anything) and soon I'm meeting one offline in bracket ... and it's pretty daunting and demotivating to see how unbelievable bad I'm against him. Tbh the last one probably would have outplayed me with every other character as well. It's just very frustrating when you a) use a top tier and still suck b) even lose MUs horribly you are supposed to win.

What is there even to be reflected? The Metal Blade which won't travel back to Mega Man anyway? The bomb? Pellets which cancel each other out? d-air? u-air? F-smash which no Mega Man with half a brain would use in a way it could get them killed, especially since f-air and b-air are there to punish, even for kills? How does the u-air actually work? I tried to reflect it, which sometimes works (to not much of an effect), and sometimes I still just flew up to the blastzone. Airdodging sideways? And the leaf shield can't be reflected until thrown. I know you can still hit him with n-air etc. but that seems like a gamble and if he gets it out near you you are getting hit regardless. Shield beats ls when you are in his face, but i still get hit too many times by it. Does one wait, try to camp with my own pew pews or shall one go aggressive ... I don't find an answer, neither in my gameplay nor in sets I'm watching.

So Am I just that bad that I should give up or isn't the MU THAT much in Fox' favour ...

 

[King David]

So everytime I read things about the Mega Man MU it's just "Fox bodies Mega Man hard" and "just down b", it's "9:1 in Fox' favour" ... well that hurts if that's true.

I watched pro sets (which at the highest level, Mega Man won more often than not as far as I'm aware) and look at my replays, but still, every Mega Man out there (so, all 5 of them) bodies me (at ~3,822,199 GSP as of posting, and yeah I know GSP ain't meaning anything) and soon I'm meeting one offline in bracket ... and it's pretty daunting and demotivating to see how unbelievable bad I'm against him. Tbh the last one probably would have outplayed me with every other character as well. It's just very frustrating when you a) use a top tier and still suck b) even lose MUs horribly you are supposed to win.

What is there even to be reflected? The Metal Blade which won't travel back to Mega Man anyway? The bomb? Pellets which cancel each other out? d-air? u-air? F-smash which no Mega Man with half a brain would use in a way it could get them killed, especially since f-air and b-air are there to punish, even for kills? How does the u-air actually work? I tried to reflect it, which sometimes works (to not much of an effect), and sometimes I still just flew up to the blastzone. Airdodging sideways? And the leaf shield can't be reflected until thrown. I know you can still hit him with n-air etc. but that seems like a gamble and if he gets it out near you you are getting hit regardless. Shield beats ls when you are in his face, but i still get hit too many times by it. Does one wait, try to camp with my own pew pews or shall one go aggressive ... I don't find an answer, neither in my gameplay nor in sets I'm watching.

So Am I just that bad that I should give up or isn't the MU THAT much in Fox' favour ...

Kindra I'm not an expert by any means but I've played a LOT of Smash in my day. Just because ONE Mega Man can beat you doesn't mean all of them can.
In my matches, I beat Mega Man when I reflect his Smash and Sticky bombs while running circles around him. I get frustrated when they spam F-air and the STUPID leaf move (leaf doesn't seem to do too much damage though). You just have to punish landings and out-pace. My Fox style is VERY shine heavy when playing "shooty" characters so I may have an edge over the average "non-expert" Fox player.

Hope this helps!

 

[King David]

How do I beat Bowser?

 

[Adunnie1]

How do I beat Bowser?

use your speed to play a sort of hit and run strategy. Use his big weight to do longer combos.

 

[King David]

use your speed to play a sort of hit and run strategy. Use his big weight to do longer combos.

Thanks for the input. Specifically, I get eaten alive when I follow up with jab combo and get "tough guy'd". Also, I'm having trouble avoiding fire breath and command grab.

 

[DavemanCozy]

You can't use jabs on Bowser at low percents. That's just how he is. I forget the specifics with tough guy, but I am pretty sure that any move that deals less than 19KB units won't make him flinch, unless he's at more than 80% damage jabs won't work.

Before that; grab him, sweetspot n-airs, landing bairs, or any tilts. You can also pellet him with lasers to force him to make the first move.

He's a way better character (waaaay better) in this game than he was in S4, he arguably got the biggest benefits from landing lag reduction. Treat his f-air as you would treat Marth's f-air, and always beware of his command grab which can kill very early (80% at the top of BF platform, which WILL happen often).

 

[King David]

DavemanCozy I think my issue vs Bowser is that I'm too aggressive and when I slip up, I get taken to the wood shed. Tilts and grabs at early % will definitely help.

Can you go into more detail on "Sweet spot" n-air?

 

[DavemanCozy]

DavemanCozy I think my issue vs Bowser is that I'm too aggressive and when I slip up, I get taken to the wood shed. Tilts and grabs are early % will definitely help.

Can you go into more detail on "Sweet spot" n-air?

sweetspot here refers to the early hitbox of N-air (startup deals more damage and knockback, late hitbox deals less knockback).

With the command grab... you just have to be wary of it. There is no one answer to avoiding it. It's a frame 6 move iirc, basically a frame 6 KO move that can't be shielded. If he catches you with it often, try changing your shielding habits.