Finding new main?

[AAAAAA]

I had mained fox for a long time, but my improvement just kinda stopped a while ago. I realized i just couldn't keep up with it. I want to switch to a character I can play or someone that's easier, but i'm stuck on Luigi, Young Link, and Falcon. Which one should i Choose? I can do sick edge guards with Luigi, I can beat my friend's Falco (He is the same skill as me; kinda below tournament level) with young link, and I can combo well with Falcon. I'm stuck over the three.

 

[JasonKaroshi]

Falcon is an easier transition from Fox due to how fast both characters are, but Luigi and Young Link are more unorthodox, and people don't know how to combo them and what works. If you're looking to cheese your opponents and also outplay them, picking Young Link and Luigi. If you want to just decimate people with flashy combos and beat them through pure outplaying, pick Falcon.

 

[faroIN]

YL gives you an edge because of matchup inexperience. I also think it's more rewarding on a personal level to be involved in a small community pushing one character's meta. There are still a small group of players pushing the Ganon meta, but having less established "rules" for the character lets you be more creative with the way that you play. Luigi feels like a total cornball character but if you like him go for it. A good Falcon is always good to have in your back pocket but his limitations hurt him because most decent players know how their character plays against Falcon.

 

[Raycu]

Are you switching because you feel you've plateaued in some way? If so you're probably just going to plateau again with a different character. :/

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Hey so I'm new to the game coming from smash 4. I wanna get a character that's fairly easy to play so I can learn the general basics and movement of the game first. Right now I like and have fun with. So basically all the viable characters etc. for Falcon lol. Anyways I want to hear what the play sales are for these characters and how easy or hard they are to learn compared to each other and I'm probably going to go with two characters start on this one is a much better choice. Can you help a new come out?

Edit: I also want to note that I kind of have motor skill problems in my hands and can't move superfast of stuff like L canceling ones exactly work too well for me just like a perfect editing and smash for is extremely difficult .

 

[faroIN]

If you're going to have issues playing faster characters, try to work on puff and peach. The others you listed all have pretty precise ground movement.

 

[Smashplayer11]

I agree with @farolN puff can be a really good tool to have against top tiers and is very easy to get use to but hard to master.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I agree with @farolN puff can be a really good tool to have against top tiers and is very easy to get use to but hard to master.

I'm gonna go with . I love the clutch rests. Now what are the matchups for her? Mainly losing?

 

[faroIN]

An overview of her matchups can be found here. Don't treat it as scripture, but it's a starting place and should give you a quick understanding of what you'll need to attempt in different situations. Overall, Puff beats most characters pretty handily but will need to adjust options for each matchup, just like pretty much all characters.

Another thing with characters that have super clutch kill moves: if your neutral game is based entirely around setting up that kill move, you'll be more likely to lose neutral than if you have other options available. Just like ICs and wobbling. If you fish for a rest, you'll either get it or get punished. But if you learn the other aspects of the character's neutral and punish, and eventually the right mental game, you'll have many more tools at your disposal.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

An overview of her matchups can be found here. Don't treat it as scripture, but it's a starting place and should give you a quick understanding of what you'll need to attempt in different situations. Overall, Puff beats most characters pretty handily but will need to adjust options for each matchup, just like pretty much all characters.

Another thing with characters that have super clutch kill moves: if your neutral game is based entirely around setting up that kill move, you'll be more likely to lose neutral than if you have other options available. Just like ICs and wobbling. If you fish for a rest, you'll either get it or get punished. But if you learn the other aspects of the character's neutral and punish, and eventually the right mental game, you'll have many more tools at your disposal.

Thank you so much in that case who's another top/high tier who can do well against ?

 

[Bjørner Holager]

Thank you so much in that case who's another top/high tier who can do well against ?

Aside from fox or marth i would say falco, sheik too but she kinda loses to fox.

 

[CanBeatAnyFaux]

No one beats Fox/Marth outright but Samus and Pikachu can cheese Fox and somewhat Marth. Puff still has some of the best matchups vs them of the entire cast tho

Also anyone who says Sheik beats Marth is fake news

 

[iAmMatt]

If you're looking to win stuff, I would go with falcon. He's the most viable out of the three, but he's not that good in doubles. Yl and luigi both show some promise in doubles, but aren't high tier for a reason. On their own, they get combo'd easily and ko'd at low-ish percents. However, I think both characters are good against spacies due to their combo games and the spacies' unmatched ability to get combo'd. I think that falcon is best against floaties, because he can combo them better and has more setups on them. Yl also isn't too bad against floaties. Take yl vs puff, a matchup that yl arguably wins. Ultimately, its up to you, but I would go with falcon.

 

[KrispyKabbage]

Use falcon cause' he sucks the least out of the 3.

 

[Smashplayer11]

I'm gonna go with . I love the clutch rests. Now what are the matchups for her? Mainly losing?

Not really if you know how to use her who won Evo again that's right puff

 

[JasonKaroshi]

She doesn't really lose any match-ups hard except Fox, and even then Puff has u-throw rest which can help even the odds.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Not really if you know how to use her who won Evo again that's right puff

I meant mainly losing by wanting to know her losing.

 

[faroIN]

The only matchup that Puff loses is Fox and that one is not nearly as difficult as people say it is.

 

[-ACE-]

The only matchup that Puff loses is Fox and that one is not nearly as difficult as people say it is.

Falco edges out puff at top level tbh. Falco's representation has been suffering at top level the past 2-3 years. We see west/mango's falco lose to peach and climbers as well, but falco wins those matchups too. No falco currently plays the matchup like PPMD used to. He had the patience and mental fortitude to keep up an incredible pace regarding appropriate pressure and decision making in neutral, with an extremely effective punish game. It was systematic and methodical without being overly flow-chartish at the wrong times. Not many people are willing to put in this kind of effort or have this level of patience. It's almost similar to how wizzy plays the puff matchup with falcon, but with falco (and falco's better). Marth could win at top level, and sheik is kinda close.

Frootloop plays the matchup fairly well, but he's not quite a top level falco.

 

[faroIN]

Of course. I don't like the idea that a character matchup should ever be consider one-sided or one character "should" beat another. Statistically even the worst matchups have the more dominant character losing 20-30% of the time. The character is only as good as the player with that character.

 

[CanBeatAnyFaux]

Puff loses to Marth, but like every matchup for Marth, it's really hard

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Ok so the losing mus for puff are . But they're doable.
My question now is do I have any room for ? I really like them they're really fun and could any of them be a possible pocket for those two mus?

 

[faroIN]

YL loses both but again it's just up to the players instead of the characters. Nobody has mu experience against YL so you can use that to your advantage and use him as a secondary for mus you don't feel great about. His neutral game is a bit complicated because it uses 3 different types of projectiles that all do different things but he's a lot of fun to play. Axe has a pretty clutch YL secondary that you can learn some stuff from, and it's proof that he can be played at a high level. Basically, you'll always have room to play characters that you like. I main Ganon but I'll still bust out Falco or Doc in friendlies.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

YL loses both but again it's just up to the players instead of the characters. Nobody has mu experience against YL so you can use that to your advantage and use him as a secondary for mus you don't feel great about. His neutral game is a bit complicated because it uses 3 different types of projectiles that all do different things but he's a lot of fun to play. Axe has a pretty clutch YL secondary that you can learn some stuff from, and it's proof that he can be played at a high level. Basically, you'll always have room to play characters that you like. I main Ganon but I'll still bust out Falco or Doc in friendlies.

Who would be a good counterpick to fox and marth then?

 

[faroIN]

To put it simply, it isn't as easy as counterpicking two of the best characters in the game. Just outplay those fools. The close mus come in at like 51-49 statistically. Even the worst mus, which you won't come across if you're playing Puff, are realistically 80-20. Play who you want and play to have fun. If you're having fun, you'll be more invested in your game, you'll practice more often, and your wins will be more rewarding.

 

[CanBeatAnyFaux]

Counterpicking isn't as important in Melee, as getting good with one character first is super important esp. for learning the game. If you really want to pick up a counter, I would consider picking up either Marth or Fox because otherwise you'll most likely just be picking a character with a worse marchup vs them than Puff. The little asterisk with that statement is that you should discover how you feel about matchups yourself. I think there are a lot of characters that Marth beats that I still use my secondary Fox for because it's easier for me to just press buttons and straight up hit them with the better character advantage than use my brain.

 

[KrispyKabbage]

Ok so the losing mus for puff are . But they're doable.
My question now is do I have any room for ? I really like them they're really fun and could any of them be a possible pocket for those two mus?

Although you might find it fun to play them, the only one I would even possibly consider would be YL. Roy and Link are SO BAD, especially Roy. I wouldn't play either of them at any level higher than friendlies. (Unless you know for a fact that you're WAY better than whoever you're playing).

 

[FalcoSBM1990]

Falcon is an easier transition from Fox due to how fast both characters are, but Luigi and Young Link are more unorthodox, and people don't know how to combo them and what works. If you're looking to cheese your opponents and also outplay them, picking Young Link and Luigi. If you want to just decimate people with flashy combos and beat them through pure outplaying, pick Falcon.

C.Falcon is a character which is only for selected individuals or better said 'born for it', are capable to escalate with him, your senses, especially reflexes must be really high evolved just well connected with each other and be mainly obtained by talent in hand with common and uncommon practice, so that you really exploit his optimal speed capability in advantage, optimally syncronising positioning timings much earlier, grab timings and knee timings, the connection with C.Falcon must be really high, otherwise I recommend anyone to give him up as one choice for professional purposes.

Wizzrobe is a perfect example, he doesn't possess a comparable tech like WestBallz, S2J, DruggedFox, Mango and many other top professional players, but his high developed senses provides him most times asserted predictions for his neutral openings, superior tactical positionings in all means, Wizzrobe assimilates the opposite information so well and fast, that he always finds an opening to break anyone's defense down without letting them fix it before, optimally synchronizing every movement according to the enemy's movements to still combine them after the first contact while keeping up with C.Falcon's insane speed, that all requires not only common and uncommon experience and practice, it can be only unleashed by talent.


AAAAAA

I would recommend you to start with Falco, not because he's easy, I believe that you're strong in a mixed way of an offense and defense term, I'm certainly sure that your type is mainly hybrid, after falling with Fox as your ex-main and finally Falcon as well, both characters requires a developed offense with the mere difference that C.Falcon requires a more special/deep connection than Fox, so rethink it and don't lose your time.

After you domain Falco, start with Marth as an option against floaties, follow PPMD example and develop your way to the top, wishing you much luck.

 

[AAAAAA]

C.Falcon is a character which is only for selected individuals or better said 'born for it', are capable to escalate with him, your senses, especially reflexes must be really high evolved just well connected with each other and be mainly obtained by talent in hand with common and uncommon practice, so that you really exploit his optimal speed capability in advantage, optimally syncronising positioning timings much earlier, grab timings and knee timings, the connection with C.Falcon must be really high, otherwise I recommend anyone to give him up as one choice for professional purposes.

Wizzrobe is a perfect example, he doesn't possess a comparable tech like WestBallz, S2J, DruggedFox, Mango and many other top professional players, but his high developed senses provides him most times asserted predictions for his neutral openings, superior tactical positionings in all means, Wizzrobe assimilates the opposite information so well and fast, that he always finds an opening to break anyone's defense down without letting them fix it before, optimally synchronizing every movement according to the enemy's movements to still combine them after the first contact while keeping up with C.Falcon's insane speed, that all requires not only common and uncommon experience and practice, it can be only unleashed by talent.


AAAAAA

I would recommend you to start with Falco, not because he's easy, I believe that you're strong in a mixed way of an offense and defense term, I'm certainly sure that your type is mainly hybrid, after falling with Fox as your ex-main and finally Falcon as well, both characters requires a developed offense with the mere difference that C.Falcon requires a more special/deep connection than Fox, so rethink it and don't lose your time.

After you domain Falco, start with Marth as an option against floaties, follow PPMD example and develop your way to the top, wishing you much luck.

Thanks for the idea, but ive tried falco before. He just seemed way to clunky for me and i have started with Young Link already. However, This is probably the best suggestion I've seen

 

[JagerCry]

Ok so the losing mus for puff are . But they're doable.
My question now is do I have any room for ? I really like them they're really fun and could any of them be a possible pocket for those two mus?

Sorry if I'm late to the party but I think your best bet is to solo main Puff. Her "bad matchups" aren't so bad you need a different character and her play style is unique enough that you'd likely be better off just using puff, especially considering that Roy and Link are considered garbage and Young Link won't do better in those matchups than Puff would anyways. If you genuinely want a secondary I would suggest Marth. It won't take you too long to realize how much better Marth is than Roy and it's the most similar character to the 3 you've mentioned so it'll likely be the easiest transition and a play style you'd enjoy.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So I got advice from Syrox and he said I should use a character in top 8. Looking at tier lists and stuff it looks like it is (Not necessarily in order). My question is the skill level on each character. How hard/ easy is each of these characters to use? Or atleast start out with?

 

[-ACE-]

That's good general advice, but Axe is top 10 in the world with pikachu, and we have samus mains that are almost top 10. Luigi just got 5th at a major. No absolute need to limit it to those characters, although I agree it's a good general idea.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

That's good general advice, but Axe is top 10 in the world with pikachu, and we have samus mains that are almost top 10. Luigi just got 5th at a major. No absolute need to limit it to those characters, although I agree it's a good general idea.

I would like to play a top tier/ high tier personally so I have an easier time winning. Also they will be paired up with my because he's my boy. I've been researching and it seems like the characters in top 8 that I would like are . So my question is still how hard are they to learn/ play? And what is their play style?

 

[-ACE-]

They all have a fairly massive learning curve imho. I'd stick with the character whose movement feels the most natural to you. And obviously if you like roy, marth is naturally an idea.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'm having the most fun with the spacies so I think I'll go with them. I'll use when it's a lowere tier character or maybe vs just for nostalgia. Would be the other character I'm interested in, but like Roy, JFK how much I'd use them.

 

[PolishSmash]

How do I know what kind of player or playstyle I have ? To correctly fit my main.

 

[EmptyNess]

How do I know what kind of player or playstyle I have ? To correctly fit my main.

do you prefer going in and being aggressive or waiting for your opponent to come in and punish

do you like long combos and pushing buttons quickly or are you looking for more of a high-risk high-reward instakill character like puff or icies

 

[PolishSmash]

do you prefer going in and being aggressive or waiting for your opponent to come in and punish

do you like long combos and pushing buttons quickly or are you looking for more of a high-risk high-reward instakill character like puff or icies

Definitely prefer being aggressive and going in.

Yes I love long combos.

I like pushing buttons quickly but not too crazy where the tech skill is too difficult.

 

[EmptyNess]

Definitely prefer being aggressive and going in.

Yes I love long combos.

I like pushing buttons quickly but not too crazy where the tech skill is too difficult.

Maybe try Falcon, or an aggro style of Sheik.

 

[JasonKaroshi]

Marth has a lot of cool combos with chain grabbing and juggling on fast-fallers, and he can do well going aggro with dash dance and wavedash mindgames.