File Size Limit

[xDD-Master]

Angry German Kid lol

To start of:
Why the hell do files have a max. file size limit ?!?!?!?!

Pit's file size limit is so f***cking low, you cant properly make any PSA hack because of this.

Here is my Story:

I changed Pits FSmash to Marths Normal-B (In the Motion.pac via BrawlBox).

And now the problem:

Pits normal File Size is 407kb.

Then I copied Marths Hitboxes from his Normal-B and pasted it into the FSmash of Pit (Deleted the hitboxes of the normal FSmash) and made the Flag to "moves character" (Nothing special...)

AND NOW THE F***ING SIZE IS 420kb, I MEAN W T F MARTHS B IS EVEN LESS LINES THAN PITS FSMASH ?!?!?

AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT PITS FILE CAN ONLY BE AROUND ~415kb OR THE WII FREEZES IF YOU SELECT PIT...

I MEAN COME ON, THIS IS JUST NOT FAIR... other characters can add about 200kb before they reach their limit, but Pit only allows to add 10kb ??? And then PSA often increases the File Size instead of decreasing it...

This Problem really have to be solved, because it takes the whole fun out of PSA.

And yeah I'm working on a Lloyd Irving. I already got his Up-B (Rising Falcon) and Side-B (Tempest) finished in another file, but it also was just before the file limit (it has 413) and a small change to Down-B made it around 440kb (WTF...) so I started new and yeah after 10 mins of hacking I got my wii freezing... VERY NICE !!! /ironic

So is there any way how to fix this or get around this file size problem ???

Or is there a way how to make my PSA working with me and not against me, I mean that it decreases my file size when I use less lines o_________O

HELP ME :embarrass

 

[pokelover980]

No need for a whole thread about this, complain somewhere else >.>

And don't get all "FIX IT NOWZ IMMA EAT YOU!!11!!!!", be calm.

You avoid your problem by using only "Save As". It stops PSA from resizing for some odd reason.

 

[Angelglory]

That's actually sort of weird, since my own PSA of Pit is 424 kb. It hasn't screwed-up outside of my own mistakes and I've done a ton of changes on him.

 

[xDD-Master]

No need for a whole thread about this, complain somewhere else >.>

No this needed a new thread because its a f***ing big problem and needs to be solved. It takes a lot of fun, I'm not the first one I think to which this happened and it also was already my second time. So this needs a lot of attention and as most help as possible, which you dont get in any thread!!!

You avoid your problem by using only "Save As". It stops PSA from resizing for some odd reason.

OK thanks, I will try this, if it wont work, IMMA EAT YOU!!11!!!!

That's actually sort of weird, since my own PSA of Pit is 424 kb. It hasn't screwed-up outside of my own mistakes and I've done a ton of changes on him.

Could you sent it to me please ? I want to try it on my wii, maybe it has to do with my own SD Card or Wii (That would be BS)

 

[Angelglory]

Just sent the link in a PM.

 

[xDD-Master]

You avoid your problem by using only "Save As". It stops PSA from resizing for some odd reason.

OK thanks, I will try this, if it wont work, IMMA EAT YOU!!11!!!!

It doesnt work raaaaawwwwwwr

 

[pokelover980]

It doesnt work raaaaawwwwwwr

I know it stops resizing it by large amounts when you Save As, maybe your just doing something wrong or that move doesn't work.

 

[Dantarion]

How about you complain in the PSA thread with a way to easily duplicate the problem and maybe Phantom or I will actually look at it, since we appear to be the only ones who will actually edit the PSA source.

 

[xDD-Master]

I know it stops resizing it by large amounts when you Save As, maybe your just doing something wrong or that move doesn't work.

OK because you think I am joking, I will make a video for you... just wait I'm uploading it

Just sent the link in a PM.

Your's works for me. Thanks. So this problem is very strange.

The motion.pac change works, so that isnt the reason for it.

When I change the Animation Flags to "Moves Character" (What is needed that it looks good) it still works (This doesnt increase the file size btw).

But when I copy "Main" from Marths SpecialNEnd and paste it into Pits AttackS4S then my wii freezes as soon as I select Pit. (And here the file size jumps form 407kb to 420kb)

I will now experiment a bit with it...

 

[pokelover980]

OK because you think I am joking, I will make a video for you... just wait I'm uploading it



Your's works for me. Thanks. So this problem is very strange.

The motion.pac change works, so that isnt the reason for it.

When I change the Animation Flags to "Moves Character" (What is needed that it looks good) it still works (This doesnt increase the file size btw).

But when I copy "Main" from Marths SpecialNEnd and paste it into Pits AttackS4S then my wii freezes as soon as I select Pit.

I will now experiment a bit with it...

I never said I think you're joking, I was just suggesting you might have done something wrong.

 

[xDD-Master]

I never said I think you're joking, I was just suggesting you might have done something wrong.

I may have found the problem. But it still is strange that the file size increases by 17kb when I use less lines, and this is what my video will be about.

What I think caused the problem were the swords, because there is a line directed to the swords of pit and when you are messing around with them you get strange results (wii freezing...). FSmash has two Lines and I now deleted the second one and it worked, but when I also delete the first one it doesnt work :S

Like I said I will go on with my tests...

Edit: OK when I now just exchange the hitboxes of Pits FSmash with Marths B it freezes again (The File Size also increased again lol)

I will now give him his old hitboxes back, lets see whats happening LOL

Edit2: LOOOOOL when I give him the complete original lines back (notice I only changed this) the file size stays 420kb ._.

Wii also freezes...

I could also make a video of this too <<



Here is the first video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSzjv-spVYc

 

[(wfge7)]

are you sure u arent doing something wrong you know graphic ,sfx ,hitboxes,animation
alo i think the newest version is having problems for everyone
try a older model
ps do u know where i can find a pal common3_en.pac

 

[xDD-Master]

are you sure u arent doing something wrong you know graphic ,sfx ,hitboxes,animation

You can never be 100% sure.

But look. I changed only what is in Main of Pits FSmash, then it doesnt work, then I paste the original lines of the FSmash into the FSmash, it should now be the same as normal, but it isnt, its a bigger file in size and it still freezes my wii. Now explain me were my mistake is xD ? I could make a video of it if you dont believe me xD

alo i think the newest version is having problems for everyone
try a older model

Good idea :>

I have still all the betas here, I will give it a try. The new also makes stress when saving sometimes... you know

Btw. I have a PAL SSBB on My PC (Look I'm from germany xD) if you tell me were I can find the common3_en.pac I could extract and send it too you :O

But before you think PAL is the problem, I use NTSC Brawl for Hacks

 

[(wfge7)]

thx because googles not my friend

Btw. I have a PAL SSBB on My PC (Look I'm from germany xD) if you tell me were I can find the common3_en.pac I could extract and send it too you :O

But before you think PAL is the problem, I use NTSC Brawl for Hacks

thx see the problem with ntsc one is different file size
and u need it to do items
i think its in the system part of partion2


+ i cant find it anywhere in google

 

[Phantom Wings]

Typically, PSA works by allocating anything it can't fit in the current position to the end of the file. When I designed PSA I wasn't thinking about size limits, so the allocation function isn't very efficient and it doesn't search for any possible vacant memory in the range of the original file. The moment you add a line (regardless of whether you've deleted a line before that) it is forced to reallocate that entire list to the end of the file. Changing the list back to normal won't cause the list to be reallocated back to it's normal position.

If you must know the reason for the size limits, it's because each character is allocated a certain amount of memory to hold all of their files.

For example, let's suppose each character gets B0000 (720896 - or approx. 700KB) bytes allocated to them (don't count on these values being accurate, I'm not about to look each one up.).

Suppose that for some character:
-model & textures are 400KB
-animation & effects are 80KB
-moveset data & attributes are 200KB

700 - 400 - 80 - 200 = 20KB leftover.
If you exceed that amount, you'll cause a memory overflow which causes the freeze.


It looks like things are getting a bit fired up around here as far as hacking goes. I'll have to see about doing my part and making a contribution to the effort.

 

[Eldiran]

Typically, PSA works by allocating anything it can't fit in the current position to the end of the file. When I designed PSA I wasn't thinking about size limits, so the allocation function isn't very efficient and it doesn't search for any possible vacant memory in the range of the original file. The moment you add a line (regardless of whether you've deleted a line before that) it is forced to reallocate that entire list to the end of the file. Changing the list back to normal won't cause the list to be reallocated back to it's normal position.

If you must know the reason for the size limits, it's because each character is allocated a certain amount of memory to hold all of their files.

For example, let's suppose each character gets B0000 (720896 - or approx. 700KB) bytes allocated to them (don't count on these values being accurate, I'm not about to look each one up.).

Suppose that for some character:
-model & textures are 400KB
-animation & effects are 80KB
-moveset data & attributes are 200KB

700 - 400 - 80 - 200 = 20KB leftover.
If you exceed that amount, you'll cause a memory overflow which causes the freeze.

Thanks for that explanation! I actually didn't know any of that 'til now.

It looks like things are getting a bit fired up around here as far as hacking goes. I'll have to see about doing my part and making a contribution to the effort.

8D

 

[xDD-Master]

thx see the problem with ntsc one is different file size
and u need it to do items
i think its in the system part of partion2


+ i cant find it anywhere in google

I dont really understand what you want to say with the first 2 lines sorry xD

OK My Wii PAL Iso seems to be broken o.O A lot of files are missing somehow xD

Anyway I have found a common3.pac maybe its the same but it just is without that _en in PAL (IIRC, I saw something similar in another file):

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0SCIYCXD

Typically, PSA works by allocating anything it can't fit in the current position to the end of the file. When I designed PSA I wasn't thinking about size limits, so the allocation function isn't very efficient and it doesn't search for any possible vacant memory in the range of the original file. The moment you add a line (regardless of whether you've deleted a line before that) it is forced to reallocate that entire list to the end of the file. Changing the list back to normal won't cause the list to be reallocated back to it's normal position.

OK so this is the reason why I never get smaller files and always bigger ones, nevertheless if I delete something or not.

If you must know the reason for the size limits, it's because each character is allocated a certain amount of memory to hold all of their files.

For example, let's suppose each character gets B0000 (720896 - or approx. 700KB) bytes allocated to them (don't count on these values being accurate, I'm not about to look each one up.).

Suppose that for some character:
-model & textures are 400KB
-animation & effects are 80KB
-moveset data & attributes are 200KB

700 - 400 - 80 - 200 = 20KB leftover.
If you exceed that amount, you'll cause a memory overflow which causes the freeze.

OK this makes a lot of sense, so I just had bad luck when starting with Pit because he has other big files -.-

Well, this is somehow really stupid, but shouldnt this limit be passable by codes?

It looks like things are getting a bit fired up around here as far as hacking goes. I'll have to see about doing my part and making a contribution to the effort.

This would be very nice and helpful since I already spend more than 8 hours for my Pit :S

Thanks alot, you give me new hope :') (xD)

 

[Dantarion]

Fadefood
10fillerbytes

 

[Plaid02]

You said you are doing Lloyd with rising falcon as an up b and tempest as a side? Don't do that. Make Omega tempest his up b (rising and all), Demon Fang as neutral b (chargable, you probably already thought of this), Sonic Thrust as side b (also chargable, becoming hurricane thrust when fully charged, make sure to include the proper wind ring animations and windboxes) and Beast as down b, maybe raging beast? Probably just beast. Also (I just thought of this) Rising falcon would be a pretty cool down air (decrease or eliminate the rising time and just make it a strongly angled fall move). I made a full moveset for both Lloyd and Kratos once so tell me if you need some ideas. And I have some awesome plans for Kratos's b moves...

 

[xDD-Master]

You said you are doing Lloyd with rising falcon as an up b and tempest as a side? Don't do that. Make Omega tempest his up b (rising and all), Demon Fang as neutral b (chargable, you probably already thought of this), Sonic Thrust as side b (also chargable, becoming hurricane thrust when fully charged, make sure to include the proper wind ring animations and windboxes) and Beast as down b, maybe raging beast? Probably just beast. Also (I just thought of this) Rising falcon would be a pretty cool down air (decrease or eliminate the rising time and just make it a strongly angled fall move). I made a full moveset for both Lloyd and Kratos once so tell me if you need some ideas. And I have some awesome plans for Kratos's b moves...

This was the way I wanted to make him:

Up-B
Rising Falcon

Side-B
Tempest

Down-B
Beast

Normal-B
Demon Fang


Final Smash
Falcon Crest


Up-Smash
Tiger Blade

Side-Smash
Sonic Thrust

Down-Smash
Sword Rain


But yeah, this for sure is changeable I think could make a new thread for Lloyd, but I'm waiting for the patch of PSA before going on. The reason why I do it so is because these are only all the basic moves -> no combinations and/or lvl 2 moves (Sword Rain Beast etc.)




EDIT:

There is 1 Thing I still dont understand, after thinking about this and it doesnt make any sense at all:

Why does Angelglory's Pit worked on my Wii when the only thing I did was exchanging the pacs xD

After everything you said PW his pac also shouldnt had worked for me but it did <<

Well...

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

I'm glad someone is taking notice of this issue. I raised it about 2 months ago in the PSA Thread and had no one rally for it.

If you think Pit's 10KB is bad, try working with ZSS and Samus' 7KB file size limit.

Good luck trying to make a list with that one. I specialize in code optimization and algorithms and even I'm having trouble trying to find a way to get a full working move set in in only 7KB of code. The furthest I've gotten is about... most of the normals. If Phantom can remedy this problem in the future, that'd be awesome. I've re-written the character more times than I care to do at this point haha.

If there's anything I can do on my end to fix it, that'd be awesome. Currenty using 0.2.1, only saving using Save As, not using any Add statements at all unless the move absolutely needs it (I'm even sacrificing hitboxes on certain moves and I still can't get a full list in.) Would taking bits and pieces out of the model itself work? I'm pretty desperate as well at this point (just like the OP)

 

[Eldiran]

I'm glad someone is taking notice of this issue. I raised it about 2 months ago in the PSA Thread and had no one rally for it.

If you think Pit's 10KB is bad, try working with ZSS and Samus' 7KB file size limit.

Good luck trying to make a list with that one. I specialize in code optimization and algorithms and even I'm having trouble trying to find a way to get a full working move set in in only 7KB of code. The furthest I've gotten is about... most of the normals. If Phantom can remedy this problem in the future, that'd be awesome. I've re-written the character more times than I care to do at this point haha.

If there's anything I can do on my end to fix it, that'd be awesome. Currenty using 0.2.1, only saving using Save As, not using any Add statements at all unless the move absolutely needs it (I'm even sacrificing hitboxes on certain moves and I still can't get a full list in.) Would taking bits and pieces out of the model itself work? I'm pretty desperate as well at this point (just like the OP)

According to Phantom Wings' explanation, you could reduce the size of the MotionEtc file to give yourself some breathing room. You can clear up .1 MB by just deleting Samus armor pieces (I just tried it). Whether this causes problems or not I couldn't say.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

According to Phantom Wings' explanation, you could reduce the size of the MotionEtc file to give yourself some breathing room. You can clear up .1 MB by just deleting Samus armor pieces (I just tried it). Whether this causes problems or not I couldn't say.

Oh, word? Think you can send me a PM telling me how you did this (I'm assuming it's using BrawlBox, which I just started using as of today so help is appreciated)?

I'm currently in the process of removing the Paralyzer.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I recommend we let this thread die.

The title is just obnoxious.

 

[Eldiran]

Oh, word? Think you can send me a PM telling me how you did this (I'm assuming it's using BrawlBox, which I just started using as of today so help is appreciated)?

I'm currently in the process of removing the Paralyzer.

I'll just post it here so anyone else can learn how to do it with BrawlBox.

First, I opened up FitSZeroSuitMotionEtc.pac with BrawlBox. In the directory listing-type deal on the side, you'll see FitSZerosuitEtc -- inside that, you'll find other directories, the bottom 7 of which are ModelData[#]. Those are the armor pieces (you can tell because when you go in them and the next directory, you'll see something labeled "WpnSZerosuitArmorSomething").

Anyway, just right-click ModelData[#] and choose Delete. And then the rest of the ModelDatas there, and you should no longer have data for the armor pieces. Done!

I used very simple explanations above, but I promise I'm not meaning to talk down to you. It's for the benefit of others who are totally unfamiliar with BrawlBox.

EDIT: Sorry ThatGuy.

 

[xDD-Master]

I recommend we let this thread die.

The title is just obnoxious.

fixed
dexif

 

[Plaid02]

According to Phantom Wings' explanation, you could reduce the size of the MotionEtc file to give yourself some breathing room. You can clear up .1 MB by just deleting Samus armor pieces (I just tried it). Whether this causes problems or not I couldn't say.

This is a little delayed, but could any room be made for Pit by getting rid of his mirror shield? It won't be used.

Edit: I was also told on the chat that we can use an empty file for the fitcharfinal.pac if we don't want a final smash or if we aren't going to use any of the effects stored there. If you want to make your char not have a final smash, I think you can free up a lot of space there.

 

[A17]

cant u use brawlbox and use the file resizer? i seen it but never saw a use for it.

 

[xDD-Master]

Just bumping because it's still great if someone would be able to fix this <<

 

[SymphonicSage12]

You can't just take Marth's hitboxes, put them on pit, and expect it to work.


It'll just freeze up.


You have to swap the animations as well in Brawlbox to get it to work. There is a thread about this already.

 

[xDD-Master]

You can't just take Marth's hitboxes, put them on pit, and expect it to work.


It'll just freeze up.


You have to swap the animations as well in Brawlbox to get it to work. There is a thread about this already.

lol you should know, that I know that ... <<

It works well with Marths Neutral-B animations on Pits FSmash. But as soon as I copy and paste the hitboxes and stuff, the file size increases and it crashes... that means, it is 1) something in marths codesset of his neutral B OR 2) there is a file size limit.

Because 1 isnt the problem, it has to be 2 xD

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Okay... Sorry to necro this but it seems like the right place to ask this stuff.

1. Is there a general file size limit for everyone, or a list of what the size limits are (approximately)?
2. If I have put a character over his FSL, what can I do to fix that? Do I have to start over? (In this case, it's a moderately modded sonic; no new moves though). Also, wow, sonic is another one of those chars with a tiny filesize. >.> I only have like 10kb.

 

[Eldiran]

Sonic has a bunch of models and textures in his FitSonic.pac. If you were willing to delete one/some of those, you could free up some space, methinks. (Example of one of the models: the trail left by him spinning his Fist for Fsmash charge-up)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Great... How do I do that, brawlbox?

EDIT: I just deleted everything in texture data. Brought the size below 400. I'll see if it works.

But is there any guide as to who has what limits?

 

[xDD-Master]

EDIT: I just deleted everything in texture data. Brought the size below 400. I'll see if it works

Could you tell me what you did step by step ?

I would may re-begin to work on Lloyd D:

 

[CT Chia]

Typically, PSA works by allocating anything it can't fit in the current position to the end of the file. When I designed PSA I wasn't thinking about size limits, so the allocation function isn't very efficient and it doesn't search for any possible vacant memory in the range of the original file. The moment you add a line (regardless of whether you've deleted a line before that) it is forced to reallocate that entire list to the end of the file. Changing the list back to normal won't cause the list to be reallocated back to it's normal position.

If you must know the reason for the size limits, it's because each character is allocated a certain amount of memory to hold all of their files.

For example, let's suppose each character gets B0000 (720896 - or approx. 700KB) bytes allocated to them (don't count on these values being accurate, I'm not about to look each one up.).

Suppose that for some character:
-model & textures are 400KB
-animation & effects are 80KB
-moveset data & attributes are 200KB

700 - 400 - 80 - 200 = 20KB leftover.
If you exceed that amount, you'll cause a memory overflow which causes the freeze.


It looks like things are getting a bit fired up around here as far as hacking goes. I'll have to see about doing my part and making a contribution to the effort.

While I completely understand this, there's one thing about it I don't understand...

Ok, so you probably know how I'm working on Waluigi. Red Alloy's original file sizes are like (off the top of my head, I don't remember) 70-80kb for the FitAlloy.pac and maybe 400kb or so for the FitAlloyMotion.pac. The other two files don't matter in this situation.

Now I've found the FitAlloy.pac file size limit before it freezes to be just about 84kb, which means you get like an extra 9kb to work with (if the original was 75ish, I forget). However, while working on him, I've packed up this Motion file A LOT. My Motion file is like 1.2MB or so now and he still loads fine. It's only when the FitAlloy.pac hits 84kb that it freezes.

And by FitAlloy.pac I obviously mean FitZakoBoy.pac, I'm just lazy

Is there anyway a code can be made to increase the amount of space that is allocated for a character? Alloys mainly since their limit is so small compared to a normal character (probably since they are designed for 5 of them to be loaded at once in the Stadium modes). The code might make it so that mode doesnt work lol, but it's a worthy trade off. Or if a code can be made so that Stadium Alloy mode isn't lost, then awesome.

 

[Nerd With An Afro]

Is there anyway a code can be made to increase the amount of space that is allocated for a character? Alloys mainly since their limit is so small compared to a normal character (probably since they are designed for 5 of them to be loaded at once in the Stadium modes). The code might make it so that mode doesnt work lol, but it's a worthy trade off. Or if a code can be made so that Stadium Alloy mode isn't lost, then awesome.

I had actually thought about that, but something i had realized is that the data for the file size limit isnt stored anywhere (or i couldnt find it via hex). in my opinion, i think if we could find where these limit values are kept, we can just hex them instead of having a code (then again, i AM NOT a coder, so i wouldnt know how hard or easy it would be).

We all hate this problem and want a fix... but its sorta like GCT's before gecko had bypassed the limit.

 

[xDD-Master]

We all hate this problem and want a fix... but its sorta like GCT's before gecko had bypassed the limit.

And because of this, bump

 

[Yumasonic2016]

My name is YumaSonic2016. I'm new to SmashBoards, and here to ask if there's a list of size limits for every SSBB fighter file.

 

[Yumasonic2016]

Or more particularly is it possible to decrease DAE file sizes enough to match? For example, FitMarth00.pac which is 988KB, and FitMarth00,pcs which is 560KB.