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Falco's weaknesses

Conda

aka COBBS - Content Creator (Toronto region)
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While he has been nerfed some, let's please focus on his kit as if he was brand new. I've been thinking a lot about what his strengths and weaknesses are in the context of this game alone versus the rest of the cast.

I think the only glaring things are 1- his range (not sure how many attacks he has that are safe on shield, if any), and 2- his ground speed (have to resort to rolls to escape in a pinch, which isn't horrible, but makes falco much less unpredictable than faster characters and I'm not sure he's enough of a truck to have such a slow run speed).
 
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A2ZOMG

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Falco has three weaknesses. His F-air is kinda bad, his mobility outside of walk speed is below average, and he's considerably more vulnerable to juggles in this game with his D-air being less effective defensively.

Other than that, I'd say he's relatively strong in most other areas. He's not vulnerable to camping, good in midrange, does ABSURD damage per hit, and has some situational but simultaneously effective and practical KO options.
 

Jabzilla

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I think the f-air is great. I killed/spiked so many people with it at low percents. I would say that his KO options are limited. His forward smash is the best ground KO move but it does carry ending lag. He also has lag in his neutral a, when he begins the falcopter, which makes it easily punishable.

The run speed is bad but I use short hop phantasms to mix things up. I normally roll away from the opponent then phantasm toward them. I end up being behind them or hitting them.

Other than that he seems pretty solid.
 

A2ZOMG

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I think the f-air is great. I killed/spiked so many people with it at low percents. I would say that his KO options are limited. His forward smash is the best ground KO move but it does carry ending lag. He also has lag in his neutral a, when he begins the falcopter, which makes it easily punishable.

The run speed is bad but I use short hop phantasms to mix things up. I normally roll away from the opponent then phantasm toward them. I end up being behind them or hitting them.

Other than that he seems pretty solid.
F-air is a great edgeguard tool, I'm not denying that. It's just the fact Falco lacks a F-air that's very practical in neutral is a noticeable disadvantage to his spacing game. Means when someone successfully rushes you down in the air, you can't do much to retaliate.
 
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Conda

aka COBBS - Content Creator (Toronto region)
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F-air is a great edgeguard tool, I'm not denying that. It's just the fact Falco lacks a F-air that's very practical in neutral is a noticeable disadvantage to his spacing game. Means when someone successfully rushes you down in the air, you can't do much to retaliate.
This isn't uncommon for many fighters, though. Even Fox can't do much since his fair isn't safe. Mario and DK have this problem too. But with RAR, it's not a problem. As Falco, if you want to deal with approachers aerially, you have to stick to well timed nairs or bairs. This is normal for many fighters.

A good fair approach is a quality of life issue, but not a viability issue. Just gotta use the bair instead, and Falco's is awesome (just like the other characters who have awkward fairs).
 

Beetle Juice

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Falco lost his lasers and has a questionable nair= he can't approach

Yes he moves like a turtle on the floor.

Fair has never been an option outside of full hops or offstage in the history of smash…. ever lol.

He has wolf's Bair which means he lost his lingering hitbox compared to other smash iterations.

He sometimes has to resort to dash attack, which can be easily shielded.

At least now he can phantasm high in the air and escape situations when he has his opponent below him.

I believe that falco will become what bowser was in melee… heavily depended on gimps, which isn't too bad. The only thing is that he will need to make a lot of reads.
 

Virum

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I feel like people here are conflating weaknesses and attributes of moves that contribute to a weakness. His lasers being worse for instance is not a weakness. His lasers being worse contribute to the weakness of a worse approach and worse camping ability.

I feel that Falco's main weaknesses are the aforementioned mediocre approach (though I feel it will be a little easier to approach in the WiiU game as approaching with BAir will be more effective), his ability to be combo/stringed relatively easily and his lack of quick, solid onstage kill moves barring DSmash and sweetspot DTilt.

However, he does have a strong footsies game, great air game, solid grab game and amazing offstage game. I think this time around he's one of the most well rounded and well designed characters in the game, yet still remains a powerful threat all in all.
 
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Beta_Smash

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• Short Grab Range
• Short/Medium Range (unless you count laser)
• Not good at killing
• Very Predictable + gimpable recovery
• Fairly light
• Easily juggled
• Slow ground speed
• Has a hard time against mobile characters.

We have a few tricks and once everyone learns them Falco will be going down the drain.
 
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Legato

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recovery is very MU specific. I think jiggs, sheik, and kirby are the tougher ones, but not impossible if you save you jump and do enough switch-ups. Fair is a great way to catch them off-guard with its high priority (not a good option for jiggs though).

-slow ground speed
-easily outspaced (maybe we can fix this with bair, still experimenting)
-easier to combo on (nair can save you from many mid % combos)
-landing lag on lasers (def a weakness since it means zoning is a LOT more risky than previous versions)

I place the last one on there because lasers are so risky on sheik and faster chars. I don't think any of his weaknesses break him tbh. He is a very underrated character with awesome hitstun off of dtilt (had to end on a positive note for these cause I'm a half-full kind of guy xD).
 

Snipnigth

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Falcos weaknessess:
-ground speed.
-up b is easily gimped.
-unreliable jab combo since it can be easily DI, similar story with his up smash since the second hit can sometimes miss if the first hit lands first.
-horrible ending/landing lagg in almost every move, specially his laser.
-short grab range.
-easily combed.

Falco is not an agresive character so dont look to much for anything to go in, let ppl come to you look for openings fall back using n air and wall them out with back air.
 

(Buddha)

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What is it about Falco that makes him...bad? As far as I have seen he is pretty good.
The only complaint I have is Falco seems sluggish like Pac-Man,
 

BradLeeTee

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I was definitely pissed off when I found out there was no more short hop auto cancel lasers. This alone completely butchered the character...
 
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(Buddha)

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I was definitely pissed off when I found out there was no more short hop auto cancel lasers. This alone completely butchered the character...
Yeah, I really wish this was possible because, I would not say its OP is just something that gives him an extra boost in battle.
 

AmishTechnology

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Why is Falco bad:

Slow ground movement.

Incredibly bad disadvantaged/getting combo'd state. He is light, but tall. He falls fast, so ez juggles and CFalcon-esque BnB combos are super easy on him. He lacks a sex kick like luigi nair to break out of combos. He has horrible landing options because all his dair and fair have huge landing lag while uair, nair, and bair don't even hit below him.

He requires big reads more often than not to land KOs on non-garbage characters. Having to land fsmash, perfectly sweetspotted bair, usmash/dsmash on high percentages... these are very hard compared to the kinds of kill setups that good characters have. His edgeguard is good, but the insanely buffed recoveries of smash 4 make it moot against a lot of the cast.

"Oh but he does this better than 90% of the cast." Okay, Mewtwo has better recovery than most of the Melee cast. Pichu is faster and smaller than most of the cast. Donkey Kong has more range than most of the cast. However, that doesn't matter due to the myriad of faults they have when versing actual tourney characters.

What does Falco have to offer against the likes of Sheik, Pikachu, Sonic, ZSS, Diddy, and Rosalina?
 

theONEjanitor

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I don't think Falco is bad, but he's definitely not top tier.
The thing is Falco was legitimately overpowered in the previous two games, so compared to that, he's pretty garbanzo. But I think he is perfectly capable against the majority of the cast. You just have to play him with a different mindset. If you mained Falco before, you probably aren't going to like him. But me for example, I think Brawl Falco was a braindead character that carried his players so I never felt rewarded when playing him, but now I find him very fun and rewarding. I think he is upper-mid tier. I think Falco does fine against Sonic, Diddy, and Rosalina. ZSS and Pikachu are pretty hard, and Sheik wrecks everybody cuz she's dumb.

Falco is slow, but due to the defensive nature of this game, being slow is not nearly as much of a disadvantage as we might think. Even though his lasers have been nerfed, it's still a projectile and projectiles will pretty much always be useful if you play them correctly. Falco builds damage quickly and kills early, even on heavy characters. The thing that keeps him mid tier is his lack of guarantee or semi-guaranteed kill set ups, he must rely on strong punishes, mindgames, and reads to score KOs. But this is nothing new, it's sort of what defines a mid-tier. All that means is that if you are actually good at the game, you will get rewarded very nicely. Yeah you don't have a guaranteed dthrow upair that kills at 120%, but you have an upthrow-upair that kills at 80%, you just might have to read or react to an airdodge.
 
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BlueBirdE

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Itd be nice to have a full side b hitbox for falco and if he was a little faster. But i cant complain anymore. Hes got strength and weaknesses, good and bad mus. I feel its how it should be. I co main falco with luigi and kirby and i find they all compliment each other and together cover a good range of mus when it comes to tournaments. I feel with all the focus on other characters falco hasnt been explored enough and im sure his full potential would be amazing to see
 

Ffamran

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I was definitely pissed off when I found out there was no more short hop auto cancel lasers. This alone completely butchered the character...
Not touching his end lag also butchered his Blaster. There's one thing to remove auto-canceling, but not touching end lag or landing lag kills characters. Marth can't auto-cancel his Fair, but his landing lag might be the same since Melee which probably was bad, but nobody noticed because it auto-canceled. Falco's end lag on Blaster is similar - more or less by a few frames - from Melee and Brawl, but none of that mattered when it auto-canceled. Now it doesn't and it has one of the worse end lag if not the worst in the game for a projectile.

You can't fix a character by removing or changing one thing and expecting everything to work out. That's like if my car's headlights stop working, so I use full beam instead. A lot of Falco's issues are from Melee which you could even say it's because of Fox that he's messed up. In Brawl, people could chaingrab and he was notorious for it. Well, Smash 4 doesn't have chaingrabs, but not only that, he gained increased startup on his standing grab and it wasn't like a 1 frame increase that basically returns his Melee grab, but 2 frames which makes his grab slower than Ganondorf's while his dash and pivot grabs are basically Fox's. In Melee, his Blaster had a slow rate of fire, but auto-canceling meant it could be fired quickly. You don't make it so he can fire even faster in Brawl while allowing it to auto-cancel. Auto-canceling already made his Blaster (too) good, but in Brawl? It was broken since he could fire 2 lasers like Fox from a short hop, stun, and it covered Final Destination's length. In Smash 4, his Blaster got a lot of complaints and what happened? Slightly increased rate of fire. That wasn't the problem; the problem was the end lag or safety. Falco's main issue along with a lot of other characters like Zelda, Lucina, and even Fox is safety, but Fox can get away with it with speed - overall speed like low end lag, low landing lag, fast attacks, and fast ground speed. Falco has none of that except for fast attacks and even though his Smashes and Dtilt do push shields, he's too slow to actually get out. Now, take a look at Peach who can retreat Fair or pressure people with Dair and her Nair is incredible. Even without Float, she can do all of that.

Even in Brawl, Falco's main issue was killing. It wasn't kill power, but getting the kill because he was so slow in the air and on the ground. A mix of poor air speed, fast fall speed, and poor ground speed is probably the worst combinations on a character this light and who doesn't really have range. On Ike, Ganondorf, or Bowser, the heavyweights, it would work since they have the range and durability. Falco mobility is like a heavyweight's, but his build is a lightweight's. That just doesn't fly and then you look at Wolf who's a heavyweight, but has incredible air speed and who matches pace with Falco on the ground. Oh, and he outranges Falco with his melee attacks. High jumps means nothing when you can't use them well like Greninja, ZSS, or Yoshi who all have good air speed.

His strengths as a strong, fast attacker who can combo with kill moves and kill with practically anything is countered by his design. Personally, I don't get why Falco has a really high jump. Birds don't really jump high and Falco being a bird would suggest he has really good air speed instead of a really good jump. Melee and Brawl's mechanics were exploited by Falco, but if you didn't exploit them and didn't auto-cancel his Blaster, wavedash, waveshine, etc., he'd be pretty much the same as in Smash 4. His design, unfortunately, might be set in stone. Can it work? Yes, but there would need to be a lot of changes and some of them are fairly "simple" like lower end lag on Blaster, shield push on more moves, stronger shield push on other moves, and some of them might need more like I think it would be a great idea if his Dair sort of functioned like Sheik's. No, not a multi-hit move, but one where the first initial hitbox is just a regular hit, then there's a spike hitbox - he'd stomp his other leg while spinning -, and the late hitbox. It wouldn't combo or fully connect like Sheik's or Kirby's Dair, but it would make his Dair much safer without be broken. Although, it would make it really telegraphed, but it's already telegraphed as of now.

Anyway, we already have a thread on Falco's problems, weaknesses, etc. If you don't mind, @ (Buddha) (Buddha) , I'll merge the threads.
 
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(Buddha)

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Not touching his end lag also butchered his Blaster. There's one thing to remove auto-canceling, but not touching end lag or landing lag kills characters. Marth can't auto-cancel his Fair, but his landing lag might be the same since Melee which probably was bad, but nobody noticed because it auto-canceled. Falco's end lag on Blaster is similar - more or less by a few frames - from Melee and Brawl, but none of that mattered when it auto-canceled. Now it doesn't and it has one of the worse end lag if not the worst in the game for a projectile.

You can't fix a character by removing or changing one thing and expecting everything to work out. That's like if my car's headlights stop working, so I use full beam instead. A lot of Falco's issues are from Melee which you could even say it's because of Fox that he's messed up. In Brawl, people could chaingrab and he was notorious for it. Well, Smash 4 doesn't have chaingrabs, but not only that, he gained increased startup on his standing grab and it wasn't like a 1 frame increase that basically returns his Melee grab, but 2 frames which makes his grab slower than Ganondorf's while his dash and pivot grabs are basically Fox's. In Melee, his Blaster had a slow rate of fire, but auto-canceling meant it could be fired quickly. You don't make it so he can fire even faster in Brawl while allowing it to auto-cancel. Auto-canceling already made his Blaster (too) good, but in Brawl? It was broken since he could fire 2 lasers like Fox from a short hop, stun, and it covered Final Destination's length. In Smash 4, his Blaster got a lot of complaints and what happened? Slightly increased rate of fire. That wasn't the problem; the problem was the end lag or safety. Falco's main issue along with a lot of other characters like Zelda, Lucina, and even Fox is safety, but Fox can get away with it with speed - overall speed like low end lag, low landing lag, fast attacks, and fast ground speed. Falco has none of that except for fast attacks and even though his Smashes and Dtilt do push shields, he's too slow to actually get out. Now, take a look at Peach who can retreat Fair or pressure people with Dair and her Nair is incredible. Even without Float, she can do all of that.

Even in Brawl, Falco's main issue was killing. It wasn't kill power, but getting the kill because he was so slow in the air and on the ground. A mix of poor air speed, fast fall speed, and poor ground speed is probably the worst combinations on a character this light and who doesn't really have range. On Ike, Ganondorf, or Bowser, the heavyweights, it would work since they have the range and durability. Falco mobility is like a heavyweight's, but his build is a lightweight's. That just doesn't fly and then you look at Wolf who's a heavyweight, but has incredible air speed and who matches pace with Falco on the ground. Oh, and he outranges Falco with his melee attacks. High jumps means nothing when you can't use them well like Greninja, ZSS, or Yoshi who all have good air speed.

His strengths as a strong, fast attacker who can combo with kill moves and kill with practically anything is countered by his design. Personally, I don't get why Falco has a really high jump. Birds don't really jump high and Falco being a bird would suggest he has really good air speed instead of a really good jump. Melee and Brawl's mechanics were exploited by Falco, but if you didn't exploit them and didn't auto-cancel his Blaster, wavedash, waveshine, etc., he'd be pretty much the same as in Smash 4. His design, unfortunately, might be set in stone. Can it work? Yes, but there would need to be a lot of changes and some of them are fairly "simple" like lower end lag on Blaster, shield push on more moves, stronger shield push on other moves, and some of them might need more like I think it would be a great idea if his Dair sort of functioned like Sheik's. No, not a multi-hit move, but one where the first initial hitbox is just a regular hit, then there's a spike hitbox - he'd stomp his other leg while spinning -, and the late hitbox. It wouldn't combo or fully connect like Sheik's or Kirby's Dair, but it would make his Dair much safer without be broken. Although, it would make it really telegraphed, but it's already telegraphed as of now.

Anyway, we already have a thread on Falco's problems, weaknesses, etc. If you don't mind, @ (Buddha) (Buddha) , I'll merge the threads.
Can't complain there!
 

phantom man

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I really can't complain about Falco. I love him! My friend and I used to have Fox vs Falco matches in Melee all the time!
 
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