falcon compendium / Q&A thread

[Windrose]

I've been working on breaking up my moves into sub moves lately and it helps a lot. Not fast falling is really useful sometimes. And all those differently timed versions of the same aerials.

Kind of like what big d mentioned in one post. I think silent spectre did those the most.

 

[Mizar]

Having Jeapie jab>knee>jab>knee>jab>knee.. etc on your shield is one of the scariest things I've ever seen. You have 4 options.

1. Trying to do an attack out of shield which has a huge chance of ending in a knee to the face.
2. Buffer roll > eat a knee to the face in the direction you roll to.
3. Grab > Spaced a knee so grab misses and again knee for dinner.
4. Jump out of shield which, sadly, also has a huge chance of getting a knee in the face.

wat do
dat shieldstun

 

[Wenbobular]

Gentleman can be shieldgrabbed I believe
Although PAL gentleman sounds mad cheap <_<

 

[JonnyW]

Having Jeapie jab>knee>jab>knee>jab>knee.. etc on your shield is one of the scariest things I've ever seen. You have 4 options.

Is Jeapie trying to claim that shield pressure? Cause I was gonna name that Win Pressure after my last name. Seriously

Gentleman can be shieldgrabbed I believe
Although PAL gentleman sounds mad cheap <_<

I'm not sure about Jeapie but when I do it I don't use the knee of the gentlemen. The reason your opponent has to stay in their shield is because after the one or two jabs you do you do a spaced shuffled knee. Also you short hop above a lot of characters grabs so while they let down their shield they get kneed in the face.

 

[Mizar]

Is Jeapie trying to claim that shield pressure? Cause I was gonna name that Win Pressure after my last name. Seriously

I'm not saying he claims that shield pressure, but its scary because his execution is so ridiculously fast.

I'm not sure about Jeapie but when I do it I don't use the knee of the gentlemen. The reason your opponent has to stay in their shield is because after the one or two jabs you do you do a spaced shuffled knee. Also you short hop above a lot of characters grabs so while they let down their shield they get kneed in the face.

Not one or two jabs, just the first jab>knee>first jab>knee etc. until you die.

 

[Cactuar]

Having Jeapie jab>knee>jab>knee>jab>knee.. etc on your shield is one of the scariest things I've ever seen. You have 4 options.

1. Trying to do an attack out of shield which has a huge chance of ending in a knee to the face.
2. Buffer roll > eat a knee to the face in the direction you roll to.
3. Grab > Spaced a knee so grab misses and again knee for dinner.
4. Jump out of shield which, sadly, also has a huge chance of getting a knee in the face.

wat do
dat shieldstun

Knee jab shield pressure isn't really scary. 4 after first jab, SDI/DI away to cover second jab. You escape any chance of getting knee'd and you escape from third hit of A-string.

Think about the attacks involved in the knee jab sequence. Knee locks you in shield, jab probably guaranteed. So you WD out at some point before the knee hitting. The space between the knee hitting your shield is the lead into the first one, OR, if the string has started already, it is the time between jab and knee (which is jab lag+jump lag+aerial startup lag=lotsofframes). It is a huge window. You are just getting scared. Hell, you can escape that by simply buffering your jump with cstick up while holding shield and away. He is spaced away from you to avoid grab distance. For that, he sacrifices more than you realize.

Super cool Marth option vs jabknee pressure but requiring a hard read: WD towards him. Your wavedash is long enough that you can eat jab on shield, wavedash towards him and slide under and behind him before his knee can hit you. Follow this with any punishment. My favorite of these punishment options is to turn around while he lands. He will sit in shield, while you stare at the back of his head and call him an idiot with your eyes.

 

[Mizar]

Knee jab shield pressure isn't really scary. 4 after first jab, SDI/DI away to cover second jab. You escape any chance of getting knee'd and you escape from third hit of A-string.

Think about the attacks involved in the knee jab sequence. Knee locks you in shield, jab probably guaranteed. So you WD out at some point before the knee hitting. The space between the knee hitting your shield is the lead into the first one, OR, if the string has started already, it is the time between jab and knee (which is jab lag+jump lag+aerial startup lag=lotsofframes). It is a huge window. You are just getting scared. Hell, you can escape that by simply buffering your jump with cstick up while holding shield and away. He is spaced away from you to avoid grab distance. For that, he sacrifices more than you realize.

Super cool Marth option vs jabknee pressure but requiring a hard read: WD towards him. Your wavedash is long enough that you can eat jab on shield, wavedash towards him and slide under and behind him before his knee can hit you. Follow this with any punishment. My favorite of these punishment options is to turn around while he lands. He will sit in shield, while you stare at the back of his head and call him an idiot with your eyes.

WD out gets me *****, but I guess I need to time it better. Buffer jump and away sounds like the answer. Thanks alot man, thats really helpful.

 

[Hax]

bumping this, turning it into a Q&A thread as well

not a social thread

 

[Wikipedia]

What are the (different/best) options when you have falcon in a grab at the edge of the stage. Obviously drop zone is an option but I think I've seen you forward throw to a drop zone uair anticipating to intercept a side-b on the stage.

 

[Wenbobular]

Are you asking if Fthrow is good at the edge in Falcon dittos because they might side-b back to the ledge? What kind of crazy Falcons have you been playing bro

At certain percents on DI away upthrow -> dropzone Uair will work, which is generally good enough for a decent edgeguarding opportunity

 

[Hax]

i'm assuming you meant Falco?

fthrow is good for creating a 50-50 between it and dthrow by the edge. DI dthrow in and get uair'd/knee'd, DI fthrow out and it sends them farther than dthrow (sends them really far at high %'s, sets up for an edgeguard opportunity).

nah, i definitely wouldn't fthrow -> dropzone uair to intercept a Falco side-b. weak knee is best for that (but it wouldn't be a dropzone after fthrow; it would be a shorthopped lunging knee)

 

[Wikipedia]

Sorry yeah I meant falco, also thanks, that helped.

 

[S l o X]

do you plan on going to more tournaments? and are you leaving NY for college?

goodluck @ fc

 

[Wikipedia]

i'm assuming you meant Falco?

fthrow is good for creating a 50-50 between it and dthrow by the edge. DI dthrow in and get uair'd/knee'd, DI fthrow out and it sends them farther than dthrow (sends them really far at high %'s, sets up for an edgeguard opportunity).

nah, i definitely wouldn't fthrow -> dropzone uair to intercept a Falco side-b. weak knee is best for that (but it wouldn't be a dropzone after fthrow; it would be a shorthopped lunging knee)

Another quick question, when falco is at higher percents do you always go for a shorthop knee or do you do f-smash or both?? Also any tips for tech-chasing would be way awesome;I'm trying to figure out the balance between reaction and prediction -- what do you usually do?

edit:
Going back to my last question I found a game of you vs SFAT and here are all the examples of throws near the edge and other uses of UAIR near the ledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlwfE6LmZ1Q
1:15 high percent upthrow -> soft-knee chase
1:35 mid percent f-throw -> attempted follow-up
1:40 mid-high percent d-throw -> dropzone uair
2:57 attempted uair intercept
and of course 3:40 super clutch d-throw chaingrab -> dropzone knee

 

[Wenbobular]

If they can survive the Fsmash and you can knee you should knee
But sometimes they're just dead to both and Fsmash is way easier to input

Also Upthrow Dsmash sets up edgeguards if they miss the DI

I like Uthrow instant Uair right before the % where you can knee them, it'll combo if they in DI or they'll just be sent flying away if they away DI
Neutral DI hoses it unless you're super fast maybe?
It also lets you cover techrolls which I think is cool (if you miss the Uair)

 

[Hax]

staying in NY for college

as player skill increases, tendency to techchase on reaction rather than prediction increases. my techchasing is still largely prediction though. my mindset is to techchase -> grab on reaction for as long as possible until i have a solid read on where you're going to tech; then i'll stomp/knee. if i have a solid read that you're gonna either tech in place or one direction, i'll side b to cover both

keep in mind that that game vs SFAT was on yoshi's, where it's risky to dropzone knee. if dropzone uair will either kill or set up for an easy edgeguard, i'll opt for it on yoshi's

 

[Wenbobular]

It's not actually risky o_O
It's just slightly harder to do than dropzone Uair

If there's even a small possibility they don't die from Uair I'd always take the knee

 

[Hax]

It's not actually risky o_O
It's just slightly harder to do than dropzone Uair

If there's even a small possibility they don't die from Uair I'd always take the knee

it's extremely easy when you're not hitting someone. when you are i **** it up like 20% of the time, prolly cause of the small amount of lag that's added when you hit someone

 

[Twinkles]

Having trouble vs. Pikachu. Approaching is kinda weird and get uaired so many times out of what I thought would be combos. What do I do?

 

[ShrieK1295]

it's extremely easy when you're not hitting someone. when you are i **** it up like 20% of the time, prolly cause of the small amount of lag that's added when you hit someone

You think it's harder to jump out of knee when you hit someone?? I always felt it was much easier, but maybe for me it has to do with the fact that I assume I'm gonna hit someone if I go for the drop zone.

Having trouble vs. Pikachu. Approaching is kinda weird and get uaired so many times out of what I thought would be combos. What do I do?

Dash dance, get grabs, try hard not to go into shield and realize when you are in close spacing he is gonna try to uair a lot -.-

 

[Hax]

You think it's harder to jump out of knee when you hit someone?? I always felt it was much easier, but maybe for me it has to do with the fact that I assume I'm gonna hit someone if I go for the drop zone.

nah lol, i'm saying i'll sd off of dropzone knee on yoshi's once in a while. only when i hit someone with it, cause of the added lag. without that lag its super easy

poke at pikachu safely, let him do the approaching. react to and punish nair

 

[JMan8891]

Hax, when you practice, what type of things do you like to do? I was rewatching your sets from Zenith, and I notice when waiting for players you generally try fast platform movement, pivots, just (seemingly) random stuff, just as fast as possible?

I guess I'm asking what you recommend and/or what you specifically do. Im still a Falcon mastering tech skill, but Falcon-specific pointers are always appreciated.

 

[Phonz]

does anyone have any links or info on the upper tier character matchups. I can't seem to find any.

 

[Ziodyne]

does anyone have any links or info on the upper tier character matchups. I can't seem to find any.

A lot of info can be found in this thread. http://smashboards.com/threads/the-falcon-index-thread-new-post-of-the-week-by-magus.307911/

 

[Phonz]

A lot of info can be found in this thread.

ok thanks that looks like quite the extensive guide

 

[xoxo~gossipgirl]

so peak first-hit nairs can cover low platforms like on PS or YS; i've gotten some pretty janky tap-resets with it and have toyed with using it to herd wakeup-rolls in a certain direction cos it feels like instant u-air has been fast enough to followup with (though i haven't gotten to really test it out against really fast players).

i know just getting on the platform with a waveland or whatever seems to be the most standard chase these days from what i've seen, but is nair viable at all? are there still situations where u-air is common?

i'm a really old school player coming back after at least 5 years now, and brand new to Falcon so i don't have a lot of intuitions and i'm still really experimenting with silly things, like fulljump nair to the top YS platform and stuff, but i'm also trying to learn like normal behaviors also.

 

[Ziodyne]

i've seen both hax and s2j do a short hop to kinda gauge what option a person does to tech the platform, and if they don't tech, the falcon does a DJ nair to punish. for some reason or another, it seems like most people DI the nair kinda up because from what I can tell it usually leads to a knee

uair is not bad for non-commital platform stuff, but against good players it can be hard to actually land one. i usually go for one if i wanna cover the platform -> slip-off option (where they don't even tech and just slip off the platform entirely).

s2j also taught me about SH knee to cover lower platform techchases. SH knee under the low platforms of YS, BS, FoD (at the right height), and PS and it can hit the person above while still remaining a solid not-commitment-heavy option. Also, timing-wise, I feel like you could react to almost every tech option with it, so that would be good to play around with.

wenbobular also talked about covering multiple options with a moving full-hop stomp that goes over a whole platform.

worse comes to worse, you can go for a hard read with dair or knee if you're confident in the read. i think if you time it right, you can cover missed tech and tech-in-place while still having time to regrab a tech-roll.

 

[Kodu02]

Do you still answer questions on this forum?