Q&A FALCON ASK !! Q&A and FAQ

teluoborg

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So I figured it would be interesting to have this kind of thread around to regroup all the small questions everyone has that don't always need their own thread.

You got a question about the good ol' Captain ? Ask here and everyone will do their best to answer.


FAQ :

What are Falcon's biggest strenghts and weaknesses ?
+Strong punish game
+Most stylish character in the game
+Good mobility
+Good juggle game
+Dash grab
+THE KNEE
+Landing moves feel satisfying in general

-Bad range
-relatively slim hitboxes
-Poor recovery
-lack of OOS options
-Bad neutral game, relies a lot on bait and punish
-Combo food
-Pikachu exists (seriously **** you Pikachu)


What are Falcon's best/worst matchups ?
While few people talk about their matchup experience it is generally agreed that Falcon struggles against Ness, Rosaluma, Sheik and Pikachu. He can hold his own against Diddy so that's a plus.
In a broader way of thinking : the bigger your opponent is, the easier time you'll have.


What AT do I need to master with Falcon ?
Not much really, Falcon is more about mastering your basics than throwing out ATs.
The only really useful one is foxtrot dance where you alternate foxtrots with dash dances.
Foxtrot : two consecutive dashes in the same direction
Dash dance : two consecutive dashes in the opposite direction.
So the input would look like this : :GCR:*:GCR::GCL:*:GCL::GCR:*:GCR::GCL:*:GCL::GCR: etc where the * are short pauses.
Here's an mp3 done by Exor to help you find the good rhythm : https://soundcloud.com/jrzfinetv/foxtrotaudioaidsmash


OK so what basics do I need to master in order to be a good Falcon ?
Here is a non exhaustive list of things you can practice and read about :
-spacing (being precise with the moves you throw out)
-buffering and having a good flow (chaining your moves into another fluidly, knowing the timing of your moves)
-zoning (knowing where and when you should show your moves)
-mixups (using alternative moves to pierce your opponent's defense)
-being unpredictable
-adapting to the situation
-reading your opponent
-learning from your mistakes
-AND MOST OF ALL KEEP THINKING WHILE PLAYING, DONT TURN YOUR BRAIN OFF. AUTOPILOT IS AN INSULT TO FALCON AS AN F-ZERO CHAMPION


What are good secondaries for a Falcon main ?
Diddy Kong, or any character that doesn't require a lot of effort to get results.
Seriously though play whoever you want and most of all learn your matchups.


How do I approach against campers as Falcon ?
-Vary your moves, don't always go for a dash attack or dash grab. Alternate attacks with feints (dash roll, dash shield, empty jumps) and change your timings.
-Be patient and position yourself to your advantage. For example stay at dash grab range but don't rush in and wait for the opponent to do a mistake (dash grab can punish a lot of things)
-If you have the advantage don't approach, force the opponent to make the first move. If he doesn't want he'll lose by time out.
-Learn to powershield. Being consistent on powershielding projectiles negates a lot of the pressure that campers can apply and you can zone people out by simply walking and powershielding at them.


HELP I CAN'T DTHROW TO KNEE ?????
Chill, it's very percentage and character dependant so it's not always a true combo. In general you're better off with simply Uair/Nair or if the opponent likes airdodging then knee right after the airdodge.


I want to learn all of Falcon's combos.
That not a question.
As a Falcon player your feel for combos should come with experience but this thread right here is a good place to start.

 
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KeketheBasedCat

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To the above poster^ just wait them out/avoid them with falcon's great mobility, then punish with falcon's great mobility. I find that raptor boost is a good catch-all for moving multi-hit attacks (which usually have large cooldown time).

My question: Has anyone found a good use for roll-cancelled grabs as falcon? I can do them consistently enough, I just haven't yet found a reason to implement them since they seem more or less interchangeable with normal dashgrabs.
 

teluoborg

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One should be opened soon, if Victra doesn't do it I will, simply to appease my OCD.

@ KeketheBasedCat KeketheBasedCat : yes I have yet to understand the interest of roll cancel grabs, what do they really add ? Especially to Falcon whose dash grab is godlike, idk.

@ Ebbit Ebbit : like Keke said you can either run away from them or shield them then punish their big ending lag with dash grab, raptor boost or falcon kick. If you don't have time to shield or dodge them then it means you're not being careful enough and you need to respect the range of those moves and how fast they can reach you.
 

Killua

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Anyone got tips for the Rosaluma matchup? Also, are we gonna start a matchup thread at some point?
I think Rosa is a very interesting matchup, but you can't play against a good Rosa without knowing the matchup.
First you have to be focused on Luma, with Falcon you can kill him (actually just throwing him out off the stage) with your 3hit jab or with a dash attack. If the jab doesn't kill the luma but hit Rosa ,you can always follow up by a dash attack to kill him (if he doesn't land on a platform), the jab should make Rosa too far to punish your dash attack. You can do the same thing with a fthrow.
It's good to kill luma this way, because he don't die juste after the hit but it takes him like 3-4 seconds to die, so rosa as to play 16-17 seconds without him. She loses a lot of prioritees, range and killmove.

She is a very floaty character so it's easier to juggle her. Dtrhow and uair are great tools for that. But she can juggle too, and her uair can be very scary. And you don't have a lot of tool to avoid her juggle (falcon kick can be good but situational).
She is very good on the ground, and she can be hard to approach, but with a good read you can jump over the dtilt/bside and punish with an uair,nair.
If she tries to approch you, you can avoir dash grab/attack with a jump and just uair or nair and follow up. You can't combo with a grab/dtilt when you hit Rosa with the first hit off the nair so try to follow up by sh uair/nair. It's not difficult and it's put you in a combo position.

One of the key of the match is in the recovery, here Falcon is very predictible, and the dair off Rosa can kill you at early % if you don't have your double jump, and she has a very weird hitbox on it with luma. So try to learn how to tech.
But you can also try to punish her recovery mix between bair stage spike, grabing the l'edge after Rosa and bair for an early kill, uair/nair to just do %, knee if you have the timing ...
 

moreside

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I have yet to understand the interest of roll cancel grabs, what do they really add ? Especially to Falcon whose dash grab is godlike, idk.
I think that they're less important to Falcon than they are for other characters. If you look at Zelda, for example, her roll-cancelled grab has insane range. Falcon on the other hand has plenty of grab range on his dash grab, so it's less important. Roll-cancelled grabs or pivot grabs are still nice for reading rolls, though.
 

Eriol-kun

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I think Rosa is a very interesting matchup, but you can't play against a good Rosa without knowing the matchup. ...
I only have to add that Falcon Kick seems to be pretty good if you use it to punish something whiffed, because it goes through Luma and can potentially knock him out of the stage too while threatening Rosa too. Just that it's very situational since it's dangerous if a FK is shielded, nevertheless it will probably always hit Luma out because he can't block it.
 

Wumbo105

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I would also like to add that nair is absolutely godlike in the Rosa matchup, not only due to the fact that she's such a big character, but that it's a double hit which screws with a lot of her game. Use that shiz.
 

SlickDaddyV

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Hola peeps,

I started using falcon as my main for SSBU. I recently ran into a few troubles when playing people online, mainly that I have no idea how to penetrate defenses nor do I know how to deal with people throwing projectiles at me.

What could be some things I could do when these things pop up o-o?
 

Eriol-kun

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I deal with projectiles by walking, powershielding, and observing how the opponent reacts to that. I think Powershielding is essential to any Falcon so practice with a buddy, get someone to use Link/Samus/Falco etc. and spam their projectiles while advancing towards them yourself. Sometimes Falcon Kick can cut through or nullify certain projectiles, too.

As for shielding, turtling enemies that's easier, Falcon's mobility and amazing dash grab and pivot grab and dthrow options makes opponents think twice about keeping a shield up all the time. During your wakeup, his spinning leg attack does insane damage to shields, I've been able to net shield breaks with it.
 

Alexander Duprey

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I deal with projectiles by walking, powershielding, and observing how the opponent reacts to that. I think Powershielding is essential to any Falcon so practice with a buddy, get someone to use Link/Samus/Falco etc. and spam their projectiles while advancing towards them yourself. Sometimes Falcon Kick can cut through or nullify certain projectiles, too.

As for shielding, turtling enemies that's easier, Falcon's mobility and amazing dash grab and pivot grab and dthrow options makes opponents think twice about keeping a shield up all the time. During your wakeup, his spinning leg attack does insane damage to shields, I've been able to net shield breaks with it.

I think one of the universal changes in smash4 is that mostly everyone's getup attacks shred shields, so if you have a healthy shield, it should be an issue to punish getup attack. But if you were just taking a lot of shield damage or had it up for a long time I can easily see getup attack breaking or at least shield poking.
 

teluoborg

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That's a pretty vague question. If her Dthrow to Fair poses you problems, then you should try to avoid getting grabbed. If you're getting grabbed too often then you're maybe throwing out unsafe attacks without checking is Samus can shield them or not.

I think one of the universal changes in smash4 is that mostly everyone's getup attacks shred shields, so if you have a healthy shield, it should be an issue to punish getup attack. But if you were just taking a lot of shield damage or had it up for a long time I can easily see getup attack breaking or at least shield poking.
The good thing with Falcon though is that he can bait the getup attacks, dash away and then punish it with a dash grab. But yeah it's something new to this game to be wary of your shield health when tech chasing.
 

RexFures

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So I figured it would be interesting to have this kind of thread around to regroup all the small questions everyone has that don't always need their own thread.

You got a question about the good ol' Captain ? Ask here and everyone will do their best to answer.


FAQ coming Soon™
Is it better to down grab or up grab into combos?
 

KentaKurodani

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....? I assume you mean throws. In regards to that, D-throw as a general rule keeps the opponent relatively close, so it's the better of the 2 for uair chains. At low %'s, though, fthrow to dash attack to uair is a true combo, which can start the chain, so keep that in mind.
 

spazsquirrle

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That's a pretty vague question. If her Dthrow to Fair poses you problems, then you should try to avoid getting grabbed. If you're getting grabbed too often then you're maybe throwing out unsafe attacks without checking is Samus can shield them or not.
Yea i realized that after i posted it. Is there any good way to get out of a constant fair? Usually, when i play samus they dthrow to fair then when i try to get out of it they fair again and again. Any tips on getting out of that specific combo?
 

Hoejja

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Up throw i guess could be useful against fast fallers, or as a setup to knee at high percents, but you have pretty much guaranted follow-ups to dthrow with dash attack, nair, uair, even knees... Also dthrow to bair looks pretty efficient when it works
 

teluoborg

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Is it better to down grab or up grab into combos?
I almost never use Up Throw, Down Throw is good for combos and Fthrow is pretty good too against fatties.
Fthrow > dash attack > Uair/Nair is pretty reliable at low percents.
 

ArchmageMC

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I'm having a problem with my combo. I get the Dthrow Uair Uair going, but before I can land the kick, the opponent jumps away or air dodges. I should mention its like within a 5 frame window they do this, so I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Am I not fastfalling quick enough or something? And if thats the case, anyone got any tips on how to fastfall quicker? Shame you can't bind fastfall to a button...

Also, How good is Dtilt to punish rollers?
 
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KeketheBasedCat

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I'm having a problem with my combo. I get the Dthrow Uair Uair going, but before I can land the kick, the opponent jumps away or air dodges. I should mention its like within a 5 frame window they do this, so I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Am I not fastfalling quick enough or something? And if thats the case, anyone got any tips on how to fastfall quicker? Shame you can't bind fastfall to a button...

Also, How good is Dtilt to punish rollers?
Maybe try doing both uairs before you land, i.e. doing dthrow-jump-uair-jump-uair. I'm not really sure what other help to give since I don't know what percent your opponent is at in this combo. Also, and this may seem obvious, just go into training mode and confirm that what you're describing is actually a real combo (with the combo counter on the HUD). Also, while I don't think that fastfalling is your issue here, I'll give a few tips for fastfalling. Fastfall might as well be mapped to a button in the sense that it only required one input (down) with one thumb. I'd suggest that you use the cstick for aerials if you arent't already. That helps with fastfalling since it allows you to move your character while independently doing aerials.
Finally, about the dtilt question: I would imagine it's a poor choice for punishing rolls. Its startup is not great, so you'd have to be reading their roll really hard, in which case you might as well be using a fsmash or dsmash instead.
 

Ree301

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I have a question/ observation about a For Glory match I had today. My Falcon vs. a Luigi player, I was at 93% and he was at 41. I hit him with a Raptor Boost, standard side B, and it KO'd him off the top of the screen. What the hell? I hit him again during his next stock at the same percent and it didn't even come close to killing.

No rage state. Omega stage, standard ceiling. He was charging a down smash. Side B was fresh, did 9% to end his stock at 50%. Is Luigi really that light? Is this because of the counter hit mechanic? Is it that powerful a factor that it would cause raptor boost to kill ~80% early? If so, this could change Falcons go to punish options. Please let me know what you think.
 

ArchmageMC

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Maybe try doing both uairs before you land, i.e. doing dthrow-jump-uair-jump-uair. I'm not really sure what other help to give since I don't know what percent your opponent is at in this combo. Also, and this may seem obvious, just go into training mode and confirm that what you're describing is actually a real combo (with the combo counter on the HUD). Also, while I don't think that fastfalling is your issue here, I'll give a few tips for fastfalling. Fastfall might as well be mapped to a button in the sense that it only required one input (down) with one thumb. I'd suggest that you use the cstick for aerials if you arent't already. That helps with fastfalling since it allows you to move your character while independently doing aerials.
Finally, about the dtilt question: I would imagine it's a poor choice for punishing rolls. Its startup is not great, so you'd have to be reading their roll really hard, in which case you might as well be using a fsmash or dsmash instead.
I'm not sure how to do the jump after Uair, because even if I don't fastfall it, I reach the ground before I can jump again. I usually do Dthrow > short/fullhop Uair > ff > Jump uair (this is still a true combo) > but then when I go for the last bit with the knee, they come out like 5 frames beforehand. This is online so maybe its lag, I dunno. Its the basic Dthrow>uar>uar>fair %, so usually around 40-50

I am using Cstick for aerials, but I find I need to double/triple tap down to get it to fastfall. I am using that classic controller that looks like a gamecube controller, so maybe its just crappy wireless causing it?

And as for Dtilt, I was doing captain falcon dittos, and it seemed to work ok when I could read they'd roll past me/into me, but were out of range of a dsmash. I dunno, is there a use for dtilt then if that is a poor punishment option?
 

Ree301

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I'm not sure how to do the jump after Uair, because even if I don't fastfall it, I reach the ground before I can jump again. I usually do Dthrow > short/fullhop Uair > ff > Jump uair (this is still a true combo) > but then when I go for the last bit with the knee, they come out like 5 frames beforehand. This is online so maybe its lag, I dunno. Its the basic Dthrow>uar>uar>fair %, so usually around 40-50

I am using Cstick for aerials, but I find I need to double/triple tap down to get it to fastfall. I am using that classic controller that looks like a gamecube controller, so maybe its just crappy wireless causing it?

And as for Dtilt, I was doing captain falcon dittos, and it seemed to work ok when I could read they'd roll past me/into me, but were out of range of a dsmash. I dunno, is there a use for dtilt then if that is a poor punishment option?
I feel like a D tilt punish depends on who you're punishing and where you are on stage. At the edge, it's a good option because of the low angle it launches. But the real punish is the set up for gimps it provides. If it's someone like Mac or someone with limited recovery options, it's a great punish. Ganon comes to mind as well.
 

ArchmageMC

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So, are you guys sure that falcon has any 'true combos'? Short of some very specific percents, I've been fighting lvl 9 cpus and while it says its a combo in training mode, the lvl 9 can airdodge near the end of the hitstun. That doesn't make training mode a good idea on what is a true combo or not, since you can airdodge out of hitstun. And are you guys who say they're true combos using lvl 9 cpus in training or the basic lvl 3 one? lvl 9s DI, vll 3s don't.

Not to mention you can just DI away from falcon after the dthrow/uair and be out of hitstun before he can followup.

Either that or maybe its because I'm using a classic controller with a wii remote or something, I dunno, but I can't get anything higher than a 2 and I'm doing what everyone else is doing just fine, and even when I can get 2 combos, lvl 9s can still airdodge when I would get the 2nd hit normally anyway.

Just so frustrating not being able to get combos that I should be getting, and I'd like to know why. :(
 
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Ree301

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So, are you guys sure that falcon has any 'true combos'? Short of some very specific percents, I've been fighting lvl 9 cpus and while it says its a combo in training mode, the lvl 9 can airdodge near the end of the hitstun. That doesn't make training mode a good idea on what is a true combo or not, since you can airdodge out of hitstun. And are you guys who say they're true combos using lvl 9 cpus in training or the basic lvl 3 one? lvl 9s DI, vll 3s don't.

Not to mention you can just DI away from falcon after the dthrow/uair and be out of hitstun before he can followup.

Either that or maybe its because I'm using a classic controller with a wii remote or something, I dunno, but I can't get anything higher than a 2 and I'm doing what everyone else is doing just fine, and even when I can get 2 combos, lvl 9s can still airdodge when I would get the 2nd hit normally anyway.

Just so frustrating not being able to get combos that I should be getting, and I'd like to know why. :(
I'm pretty sure only the D throw to Uair is a true combo. Any following hit is another matter (though you can combo 3rd hitknee at around 65% pending DI). Not only that, but at low % the timing is very tight. Combos more than 2 hits require a specific % range and also vary on character weight/ fall speed. You should check out some of the combo videos in the other threads. There's some pretty nasty stuff you can do with SHFF Uair > stuff.
 

KeketheBasedCat

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I'm not sure how to do the jump after Uair, because even if I don't fastfall it, I reach the ground before I can jump again. I usually do Dthrow > short/fullhop Uair > ff > Jump uair (this is still a true combo) > but then when I go for the last bit with the knee, they come out like 5 frames beforehand. This is online so maybe its lag, I dunno. Its the basic Dthrow>uar>uar>fair %, so usually around 40-50

I am using Cstick for aerials, but I find I need to double/triple tap down to get it to fastfall. I am using that classic controller that looks like a gamecube controller, so maybe its just crappy wireless causing it?

And as for Dtilt, I was doing captain falcon dittos, and it seemed to work ok when I could read they'd roll past me/into me, but were out of range of a dsmash. I dunno, is there a use for dtilt then if that is a poor punishment option?
Hm, yeah I'm not really sure what to say. I would just go to training mode and hammer it out and keep an eye on the combo counter. As for your question about dtilt, I would agree with Ree's post about using against lil mac and other bad-recovery characters. Intercepting people's double jumps off the stage (when they're trying to jump toward the ledge) is another good use, espeically if they're still a little out of utilt range. Lastly, dtilt I find has deceptive range, and can be used similar to sweeps in Street Fighter. Just throw it out occasionally at maximum range, and it'll often outpoke their jabs or ftilts.
 

moreside

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Just so frustrating not being able to get combos that I should be getting, and I'd like to know why.
A big part of Falcon's follow ups come from air dodge reads, I find. That's definitely something to work in order to tack on extra hits in a string. For example, let's say you down throw into double up air, but your opponent air dodges the second because it doesn't true combo. Next time you try it, you can try to bait out the airdodge and punish with a knee. Falcon has fantastic punish tools, so work on conditioning your opponent if they are able to get out of your usual strings.
 

-Fatality-

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Falcon has tons of 2-3 move combos that are guaranteed if you're fast/precise enough. To keep things going past that will generally require a read, or unusual circumstances.
 

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I have a question/ observation about a For Glory match I had today. My Falcon vs. a Luigi player, I was at 93% and he was at 41. I hit him with a Raptor Boost, standard side B, and it KO'd him off the top of the screen. What the hell? I hit him again during his next stock at the same percent and it didn't even come close to killing.

No rage state. Omega stage, standard ceiling. He was charging a down smash. Side B was fresh, did 9% to end his stock at 50%. Is Luigi really that light? Is this because of the counter hit mechanic? Is it that powerful a factor that it would cause raptor boost to kill ~80% early? If so, this could change Falcons go to punish options. Please let me know what you think.
Characters get about 20% more knockback when charging a smash. So that has to be it, yeah :p
 

Masonomace

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Does anyone utilize footstooling with their Falcon, & if so what footstool setups do you guys go for to lead into any combos?
 
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ArchmageMC

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Characters get about 20% more knockback when charging a smash. So that has to be it, yeah :p
That is an interesting fact I ddin't know, thanks!

The Luigi might've DI/VI'ed up as well, drastically reducing the percentage to kill him as well.
 

KentaKurodani

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I keep getting my ass kinda handed to me, Fatality, any advice for playig a rushdown falcon as opposed to a bait and punish falcon?
 

BigLord

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@ KentaKurodani KentaKurodani I can answer that, because it's simple: don't do it. Play BOTH Falcons. Know when you have to wait for your opponent and when you have to be hyper-agressive.

The reason for this is that the game promotes defensive play a little (not as much as Brawl, fortunately). So a player who is smart and shields/counters your approaches because you're attacking ALL THE TIME is going to have it easy. Force them to approach, and then counter. Punish them HARD. Melee it on them.

Easier said than done with projectile users, obviously, but in those cases you just have to play it smart and don't go approaching all the time in the same way, it eventually gets predictable.


That is an interesting fact I ddin't know, thanks!

The Luigi might've DI/VI'ed up as well, drastically reducing the percentage to kill him as well.
Well, that, and Raptor Boost's knockback (specially when fresh) is godly. I love it so much in Sm4sh <3
 

teluoborg

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There's that video on Youtube where you see Falcon raptor boosting a Sonic and killing him at 34% or so because he was charging a smash. That's hilarious.
Does anyone utilize footstooling with their Falcon, & if so what footstool setups do you guys go for to lead into any combos?
I used it twice so far. Once to edgeguard a Link who pulled out a bomb, went really far down then up B at the last moment to have the bomb blow up on him and up B again. Needless to say he stopped abusing this technique after that.
The other time was offstage too, I did runoff Bair to someone who was recovering, it stagespiked him and put him just under my feet for a free footstool. It's interesting to note that even if you hit your Bair with the front hitbox it'll send your opponent behind you.

Other than that I think you could setup a footstool on the ground with the first hit of Nair, but I don't see that happening often since people won't let you approach that easily.
 

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I have a question for everyone, has anyone else ever got Falconcide, aka Aerial Raptor Boost Spike? It's so hard to get but SO satisfying. I was also wondering if if you do a short hop and RB just before you hit the ground does the RB hitbox extend far enough that you could spike people just off the ledge and fall onto it?
 
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