Falcon and Footstool

[PZ]

Or footstool<falcon kick
I have been doing some research on falcon kick uses and footstool and that is just one of the legit promises I found after finding more footstool combos on other characters. Evidently you got to space the FH nair a specific space way then Dash<jump<footstool or Jump<footstool or Jump<double jump<footstool. With this most floaty characters or characters that pop up high enough can be footstooled after FH nair. Which actually makes R.O.B super easy to footstool after FH nair<3

Example: Hitting pika with the back of the FH nair<footstool shows the most promise but the most I can get out of it afterwards is dair or falcon kick (lol) of course.

Also depending on the other player's DI you can Jab<jab<footstool<falcon kick as a legit combo...works best on characters where jab is completely ineffective. NOTE: you need perfect jab<jab<cancels or close to perfect like a frame or two off...

Frame Data...
Your opponent cannot do any option until the third frame of that action at the very least regarding the start of shielding/turnaround/dashing/jumping and such. Jumping is 5-6 frames and jab gives a 7 frame advantage so footstool that is like 0 or 1 frames can combo after stuff which automatically leads to free falcon kick.

Shenanigans
Also after you footstool if they spot dodge you could go for a knee or falcon punch depending on the character and the situation after you footstool.

Combos!
Legit combos include: Uair<footstool/dair<footstool/bair<footstool/Jab<Jab<cancel<footstool/dthrow<buffered dash jump uair<footstool<falcon kick Regular aerial<footstool are all low percent stuff.

Other stuff
Also I think a shockwave falcon kick might be useful for most people who get hit by it either instantly dodge as a wtf what did I get hit by or try to attack and if they are high enough you could get some good mixups on this.
Another thing you can do our pathetic "super jump" after SH uair<.<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgUemh1fpmk&feature=youtu.be

Conclusion
Like most things we do buffering is key don’t forget. Most of this stuff actually does pretty good damage (20+%) Again another very situational thing that we falcons find that if mastered make falcon slightly better (phanfus loop, wario slayer, kyuubi combo, etc).

 

[Zeallyx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HsDrAZj0bQ

To get a visual of the fhanfhus loop

Nice thread, but I might be biased

 

[teluoborg]

You're saying jab give a 7 frames adv, is it jab1 or jab2 ?
Other than that good stuff, waiting for the vid.

 

[PZ]

You're saying jab give a 7 frames adv, is it jab1 or jab2 ?
Other than that good stuff, waiting for the vid.

I am not sure about a video and yea jab2 gives +7 I treat jab like jab2 because I never stop at one jab unless it is a very floaty character. jab1 is +6

Thanks guys also if I were to make a video I will need to test more chars or something but I think I might just go with the fhanfhus loop or something. Unless someone feels like looking at 36 replays then uploading them of course I won't be long unless I have more input on the character.
Should I go for specific characters or...?

 

[Psychoace]

I was watching FAE's Lucas last night and

0:56 of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7161d1oq9AU

started giving me ideas and then you mentioned the dair to footstool, I think we may have something here folks. What kind of stuff can you do after the falcon kick or does the lag from it prevent most options?

 

[PZ]

I was watching FAE's Lucas last night and

0:56 of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7161d1oq9AU

started giving me ideas and then you mentioned the dair to footstool, I think we may have something here folks. What kind of stuff can you do after the falcon kick or does the lag from it prevent most options?

Sorry I wasn't thinking of any followups and aerial falcon kick has way too much lag...I mean if it was ganon's I would say we can do something but falcon kick is pretty much a combo or sure combo finishes after stuff....
Plus, Lucas's dair is ********...it can loop into footstool like alot...
Do mind that I was working on platform cancel stuff too for footstool but I am not consistent enough to give out some legit stuff by cruel had a idea back in 2010 or 2011 I think?
Of course mastering the basic elements of the game is what gives falcon his edge in the smash series...we just haven't been doing that lately.

 

[PZ]

Ok I got a preview using it on pika...gonna need someone to upload...
Record times@: 2:57-2:54/ 2:48-2:45/ 2:35-2:32/ 2:14-2:07/ 1:59-1:57/ 1:13-END of replay
in other words...:0:03-0:06/ 0:12-0:15/ 0:25-0:28/ 0:49-0:56/ 1:04-1:07/1:51-END of replay

Around those times is where recorder should record...
NOTE:sorry for double post and also I will make a description/input data when someone offers to upload.

 

[Zeallyx]

I was watching FAE's Lucas last night and

0:56 of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7161d1oq9AU

started giving me ideas and then you mentioned the dair to footstool, I think we may have something here folks. What kind of stuff can you do after the falcon kick or does the lag from it prevent most options?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUpm7gDOQOM&list=UUt8yA75cTd66wePt_6ZU6QA&index=8&feature=plcp

Sorry for the quality, but you can make out what happens

 

[PZ]

Ok! I got replays of all characters who can be footstooled after FH nair which is pretty much everyone depending on very discreet spacing n timing also back hit of FH nair works on everyone pretty much...
Won't work at all on fox, wolf, kirby, peach, zelda, tink(still testing...), ganon, olimar, and lucario.
The pikachu pretty much explains our foostool combos. Fhanfus loop CAN work on some chars depending on spacing which is pretty much too much of a hassle then simple isnta falcon kicking or dairing ASAP.
31 attempts replayed. Suprisingly enough bowser can almost like half a frame away be footstooled after FH nair.

 

[Zeallyx]

Ok! I got replays of all characters who can be footstooled after FH nair which is pretty much everyone depending on very discreet spacing n timing also back hit of FH nair works on everyone pretty much...
Won't work at all on fox, wolf, kirby, peach, zelda, tink(still testing...), ganon, olimar, and lucario.
The pikachu pretty much explains our foostool combos. Fhanfus loop CAN work on some chars depending on spacing which is pretty much too much of a hassle then simple isnta falcon kicking or dairing ASAP.
31 attempts replayed. Suprisingly enough bowser can almost like half a frame away be footstooled after FH nair.

Good stuff.
If I recall correctly the fhanfhus loop also works on Marth and Samus.
The rest I'm not so sure of (anymore)

 

[Psychoace]

What kind of percents are we looking at for the characters?

 

[PZ]

What kind of percents are we looking at for the characters?

You do know what fhanfus loop is right? cuz last time I checked FH (first hit in falcon terms) nair had a set hitstun even at 999%.

I'd like to avoid using it against chars like that 2Knee cuz they have up bs that mean the first inputtable frame could get them out with timing but yea it works on them too. X)

 

[Zeallyx]

I'd like to avoid using it against chars like that 2Knee cuz they have up bs that mean the first inputtable frame could get them out with timing but yea it works on them too. X)

True.
But it's one of our better options =P

 

[Psychoace]

I was aware that the first hit had the same knockback, but your stuff implies both parts of the nair to hit correct?

 

[PZ]

I was aware that the first hit had the same knockback, but your stuff implies both parts of the nair to hit correct?

I have been talking about anything we can do to get a footstool<FK and everytime I said nair I made sure that I put First Hit in front of it so no one would get confus

Of course I started talking about Fhanfus loop cuz I think it is the best option falcon has to initiate footstool and 3 years ago we didn't think it was as simple to do on other characters as it is on ROB but in reality hitting people with the back of FH nair makes this ******** easy although good luck following up with anything besides falcon kick or maybe dair. Some chars can be hit with the FH nair<footstool again if you have good spacing and timing and the other character is footstool from a good height.

The main reason we can do Fhanfus loop on ROB is that when we footstool him we don't go that high for some reason like we do when we footstool other characters at least I think.

 

[Psychoace]

Oh that's where we got confused dude, I interpreted FH as full hop. That's why I haven't been able to do it well yet lol. You can alter the height of your footstool.

 

[PZ]

Oh that's where we got confused dude, I interpreted FH as full hop. That's why I haven't been able to do it well yet lol. You can alter the height of your footstool.

I see...I guess I need to look into footstool heights or something i don't know.
It is a common misconception but once you enter the falcon boards the Full hop term like disappears from reality
Anyway Complete vid of FH Nair<Footstool buffered coming on Monday or Tuesday along with a small portion of other neat falcon footstool stuff

 

[Zeallyx]

I see...I guess I need to look into footstool heights or something i don't know.
It is a common misconception but once you enter the falcon boards the Full hop term like disappears from reality
Anyway Complete vid of FH Nair<Footstool buffered coming on Monday or Tuesday along with a small portion of other neat falcon footstool stuff

I'm looking forward to it.

 

[PZ]

Guys the Top post has been edited with video and 2Knee's gift although I think I forgot how to embed videos or images....
Video contains our 5 options after footstool or to start or w/e I will probably not upload the rest due to not being completely sure that the rest is inescapable...
I had did this on a pika on aib so I was sure it worked on him and some other characters but I am not sure anyway the video is up well at least the promo mayb I should have chose malier music....

 

[Zeallyx]

Guys the Top post has been edited with video and 2Knee's gift although I think I forgot how to embed videos or images....
Video contains our 5 options after footstool or to start or w/e I will probably not upload the rest due to not being completely sure that the rest is inescapable...
I had did this on a pika on aib so I was sure it worked on him and some other characters but I am not sure anyway the video is up well at least the promo mayb I should have chose malier music....

To show an image in a post put it between these tags [ IMG ][ /IMG ] (without the spaces)
I'll take a look at your vid tommorrow

 

[PZ]

To show an image in a post put it between these tags [ IMG ][ /IMG ] (without the spaces)
I'll take a look at your vid tommorrow

Ight thanks 2Knee.

 

[Zeallyx]

Ight thanks 2Knee.

No problem.

And the video contains nice stuff. Good job.
I might try to expand on this (if possible)

 

[Psychoace]

Dude this is hella easy against yoshi, as far as timing leniency goes.

 

[Labernash]

hella easy yoshi

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I cannot wait for this.

 

[Psychoace]

:D I got a date with a scrub.

 

[PZ]

And then I said bwuuut?

 

[Pktck]

Anyone actually used this in a real game? Is there a video of it? I'd love to see it in action. I don't get many chances at all to play with legit players and test this stuff out. It looks great though. Great stuff PZ.

 

[Grimmz]

Its nearly impossible to do this in a real match. So impossible that it isn't worth it unless you wanna be flashy

 

[UzakiuzuG]

Its nearly impossible to do this in a real match. So impossible that it isn't worth it unless you wanna be flashy

Such vuglar language on the most mainly character in the game. I think you should leave, Lord Falcon can do anything nothing is impossible ty.

 

[Zeallyx]

Its nearly impossible to do this in a real match. So impossible that it isn't worth it unless you wanna be flashy

It's doable.

One only has to land a first hit Nair and, after practice, the rest is also doable.

 

[Pktck]

Right, but now we're into the Rebaz syndrome. The jump.... wait for Brawl's floatiness, then fast fall Nair. Any good player, usually, can see that jump n wait, and react with some sort of quick tilt or smash. The timing itself may be hard, but I think the hardest thing is just getting it out. Even against a computer, it's difficult.

I love this idea, and I'm trying to think of way to whip it out as a mind game or something.

 

[PZ]

Right, but now we're into the Rebaz syndrome. The jump.... wait for Brawl's floatiness, then fast fall Nair. Any good player, usually, can see that jump n wait, and react with some sort of quick tilt or smash. The timing itself may be hard, but I think the hardest thing is just getting it out. Even against a computer, it's difficult.

I love this idea, and I'm trying to think of way to whip it out as a mind game or something.

Yes brawl's floatiness this is what decides who it works on.
I don't think you realize how ******** footstool stun is but I guess your right we have to look into floatiness and height of when hit for best results.

Strict timing for snake but for sure it works...face too many snakes on wifi.

 

[Psychoace]

Do it dropping through a platform i.e. smashville. It's hard to do it against characters with a projectile, an nair is naturally bad to approach with but I think it can work out for us in the long run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYQ5dhl_88M

like around the 11 second mark in lordy's video here.

 

[teluoborg]

Right, but now we're into the Rebaz syndrome. The jump.... wait for Brawl's floatiness, then fast fall Nair. Any good player, usually, can see that jump n wait, and react with some sort of quick tilt or smash. The timing itself may be hard, but I think the hardest thing is just getting it out. Even against a computer, it's difficult.

I love this idea, and I'm trying to think of way to whip it out as a mind game or something.

One word : mixups. If you don't know about that while playing Falcon then gg.

SHFHNair mixes up well with SHACBairs as a crossup (approach backwards after doing a lot of Bairs, pass the shield and FHNair).
You can also do a Full Hop and you'll have the time to do 2 Bairs before your FHNair.

TL;DR no one said you have to do nothing before you Nair.

 

[Pktck]

Right. Mixups. Very true! The platforming stuff is great, for sure. I guess what I'm saying is that when fighting someone in my state like ESAM, even mixing things up won't help me a lot to land this loop on his Pikachu. Love the fast fall from the platform to Nair, and similarly you could do it from the ledge. I guess I just need to play more and try this loop out in real game play first.

 

[PZ]

Right. Mixups. Very true! The platforming stuff is great, for sure. I guess what I'm saying is that when fighting someone in my state like ESAM, even mixing things up won't help me a lot to land this loop on his Pikachu. Love the fast fall from the platform to Nair, and similarly you could do it from the ledge. I guess I just need to play more and try this loop out in real game play first.

Yea even if you want to try this loop's tech ability and the damage given throughout and how long you can do it make it more of a flashy thing to do which I do agree with you but it is an pretty effective mix up without the loop. Hence why I gave aerial falcon kick a shot and dair is notably a good combo starter

 

[Psychoace]

It's also an option to kill with knee, I've had a little success doing a FH nair from the ledge also.

 

[Pktck]

The ledge takes timing, but it's kinda not worth it because you can just knee from the ledge.

Also, it seems to work on a lot of characters, yay. But many of them are thin as a line when they lie down, it's hard to knee them in time. Good thing Rob's fat! So most of our options seem to be Dair, Nair, Bair, and Falcon Kick!

It's funny you can knee Pikachu or Kirby much more easily than you can knee Zelda or Marth. It might even be impossible to do so. I haven't been able to do it without them getting up.

 

[Grimmz]

Forgive me lord falcon for underestimating you and for the really late reply

You can also try this (go to part 1:10). That falcon punch around 60-70 is a guarantee KO

 

[Luigisama]

is the video for this going to be made?