Falco Shine Juggle?

Jacuzzi

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Jaccuzi
#1
Can Falco juggle fast-fallers (Wolf, Fox, Cpt Falcon, and himself, primarily) at 0-very low percents using just his Shine? I know that Wolf can do this on more than just the fast-fallers since his shine doesn't launch as far. Also, I saw Westballz not too long ago double (triple?) shine Leffen across FD (I believe it was Leffen, lmaoo) so I got curious if this is an actual thing that Falco is capable of.
 

Jacuzzi

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Jaccuzi
#3
yeah you can just shine them liek 3 times before they can get out
Thanks! I figured it was about three haha. Is it only on other spacies though? Or could it work on Falcon as well? (Sorry if it's a stupid question, I'm not too literate in character fall-speed. Lol)
 

prem

Smash Apprentice
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#4
It definitely does work on falcon. usually you just dair shine them anyway so its not that important information. I think it also might work on Meta knight also, but you can easily just test this out in training mode on the fast fallers theres only so many of them
 

Jacuzzi

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Jaccuzi
#5
It definitely does work on falcon. usually you just dair shine them anyway so its not that important information. I think it also might work on Meta knight also, but you can easily just test this out in training mode on the fast fallers theres only so many of them
Okay, thanks! And yeah, I was in training practicing my waveshines on a Falcon and would just juggle with wveshines, so I thought I'd ask if this was legit or not. Dair shines are more optimal, I agree, but shine juggle could just be used as a mixup or an easy way to rack up about an easy 24% if you fail to hit the Dair. Just my thoughts though hahah.
 

Chef2

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Nov 5, 2014
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#6
Okay, thanks! And yeah, I was in training practicing my waveshines on a Falcon and would just juggle with wveshines, so I thought I'd ask if this was legit or not. Dair shines are more optimal, I agree, but shine juggle could just be used as a mixup or an easy way to rack up about an easy 24% if you fail to hit the Dair. Just my thoughts though hahah.
If you already know this and I'm a broken record my bad but the basic Falco pillar on fast fallers (starting at 0%) is either
A) dair->shine->dair->shine or
B) shine->dair->shine->dair->shine
This works so well because the only way to escape is great smash di or platforms. The shine sends them into tumble hit stun (orange in debug mode) which means they can tech, but the dair at low percent causes non-tumble hitstun (yellow in debug mode). The dair makes it so they can't tech. Also, if you waveland down after the shine you can almost always run after them on reaction and connect a dair.

After the basic pillar the dair causes tumble hitstun and gives them a chance to tech, so now you gotta get creative. Although I think the simplest and most efficient thing to do is just u-tilt->fsmash (even just fsmash after the last shine isn't bad), It probably won't kill, but it will get them off stage and it's a lot less technical then say:
Last shine of pillar->first hit uair (no tumble hitstun)->shine->soft neutral air->hope they miss the tech->laser reset->fsmash
Or the fancy one we see westballz do:
Last shine of pillar->soft reverse auto cancel bair->pivot u-tilt->fsmash

Fun part of Falco is how creative you can get with the pillar, but I think your first two sets of shines and dairs are too optimal not to use.
 
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