-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Falco Matchup Thread #31 - Olimar
- Thread starter -DR3W-
- Start date
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
Well. We have Mu threads on GaW and ZSS so, read those, they have quite a bit of knowledge, I'll pull up what I discussed in a Tourney thread about Falco vs Oli. Hold on.
I knew nothing of the Oli Mu, so here is what I got from an Oli main ->
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
*Gasps* Tin Missed my Joke.
The lasers do the approaching while you sit back camping.
Thus, he always approaches.
As For Falco vs Oli.
Camping does help us out a bit. Though, you're going to have to watch out for the Pikmin toss, you can Jab/ Nair them away, so, if it's two Campy players, expect a long Match.
Now, since Falco is a fast Faller, He can annoyingly D-Throw -> Usmash (SDi this too, Away from Oli ) -> Uair ( SDi this up, down, left or right. or you're in a world of pain).
Oli main: The Uair isn't Guaranteed. Also, Olimar has a guaranteed Dthrow (non purple) to Dair to Usmash on Falco. As well as Dthrow to Fair. Also, Dthrow to Usmash is guaranteed on almost every character. Peach is possibly the only exception. You make it sound like Fast fallers are the only ones that can get Dthrown to Usmashed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Since Falco's except Aggralco's. Are Prone to Laser x __ -> Phantasm. Olimar can U-Tilt, Or D-Tilt This, or even Usmash us out of it if he has a Yellow Pikmin, Or throw a Purple at us.
Or Nair, dash attack, Fsmash, or run to the phantasm length and charge a Usmash. Falco's respond to this by cancelling their phantasm early then punishing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Though, after watching Rain fall from the sky. I realised, Falco doesn't hit the ground when he's hit out of it, meaning, you can Just Phantasm again ( Don't phantasm offstage to your death ). Though if you do touch the ground, he can.. Pretty much use any move against us that hits in 15 Frames or Faster ( Like a Sh Fair for Example) [ Frame 13 ].
So, don't phantasm mindlessly, you're going to be punished for it, if you see him U-Tiltling, for those of you who can ( It's a Free Dacus or Hyphen Smash ). (When you Aim for cool down lag, it is)
Oli main: Depends on the distance really. Dacus isn't guaranteed on a Utilt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Another way to beat the Pikmin toss is to reflect them back at him, reflecting purples is so rewarding.
Now, if you land a a grab at low Damages, you CAN CG him.
I've been told it's a boost grab CG, others say walking ( I've seen it done before ) Some say regular Dash, though, boost seems to reward me more, anyway, you get 6 D-Throws on him, and a follow up Dair.
Oli CAN SDi the Dair on stage rendering our Spike useless.. well.. if he doesn't tech on stage, we can follow up with an Fsmash, Jab, Grab, Dash Attack, Dsmash, Usmash, Tilts, and other Aerials.
If he doesn't SDi the Dair, he can instant Up B to the ledge, but, the Dair may or may not have killed all of his Pikmin, meaning, Oli could fall to his Death. As well as meteor cancel.
Now, when Oli is recovering, assuming they Di up, and he's coming down, they like to whistle as an Insurance Policy just in case they're hit, then they punish us [ Dabuz/ Rich Brown Whistle -> Dair Spike ]
Oli main: Whistle -> Nair is more common
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Knowing this, we can Bair the whistle when he's coming back, and Attack after the whistle armour ends, it's not too Difficult to do. ( It really isn't )
Oli main: That's questionable with a 4 frame window + frames of Nair/Another whistle. If you hit Olimar while you whistle, better make sure your not in range to get counter attacked.
( Two whistles -> 5 frame window) ( Whistle Nair -> 10 frame window to hit Oli )
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Now, when we ledge hog, they like to throw a Pikmin at us to get us off, or Uair the ledge, if they throw a Pikmin and it's not Purple, you're safe.
If they go for a Uair. Ledge Drop Bair works well. ( I didn't say it beat Uair, ledge drop Bair was meant if they go for, not if they do).
No. Olimar's Uair beats All of Falco's aerials (when Falco challenges them from above). This is only safe when you drop down with your invincible frames. It's likely due to hit lag that the frames will wear off. What's better is to DI up & away from the edge when your ledge hogging so that even if Olimar tether's you, you don't get stage spiked. This may also allow you to escape a miss spaced Uair since you'll DI out before the last hit, and regrab the edge. If Olimar is not high enough to propel himself back on stage with his upB, he'll die. Olimar's also like to Fair someone on the edge. Falco's drop down Bair option helps with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Sometimes, they Whistle -> Up B on the stage if you grab the ledge, a way to counter this is get up, Usmash/ Grab/ Jab. ( I didn't say plat, but, okay ).
Oli main: If they get on a platform, your punish doesn't work.
I knew nothing of the Oli Mu, so here is what I got from an Oli main ->
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
*Gasps* Tin Missed my Joke.
The lasers do the approaching while you sit back camping.
Thus, he always approaches.
As For Falco vs Oli.
Camping does help us out a bit. Though, you're going to have to watch out for the Pikmin toss, you can Jab/ Nair them away, so, if it's two Campy players, expect a long Match.
Now, since Falco is a fast Faller, He can annoyingly D-Throw -> Usmash (SDi this too, Away from Oli ) -> Uair ( SDi this up, down, left or right. or you're in a world of pain).
Oli main: The Uair isn't Guaranteed. Also, Olimar has a guaranteed Dthrow (non purple) to Dair to Usmash on Falco. As well as Dthrow to Fair. Also, Dthrow to Usmash is guaranteed on almost every character. Peach is possibly the only exception. You make it sound like Fast fallers are the only ones that can get Dthrown to Usmashed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Since Falco's except Aggralco's. Are Prone to Laser x __ -> Phantasm. Olimar can U-Tilt, Or D-Tilt This, or even Usmash us out of it if he has a Yellow Pikmin, Or throw a Purple at us.
Or Nair, dash attack, Fsmash, or run to the phantasm length and charge a Usmash. Falco's respond to this by cancelling their phantasm early then punishing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Though, after watching Rain fall from the sky. I realised, Falco doesn't hit the ground when he's hit out of it, meaning, you can Just Phantasm again ( Don't phantasm offstage to your death ). Though if you do touch the ground, he can.. Pretty much use any move against us that hits in 15 Frames or Faster ( Like a Sh Fair for Example) [ Frame 13 ].
So, don't phantasm mindlessly, you're going to be punished for it, if you see him U-Tiltling, for those of you who can ( It's a Free Dacus or Hyphen Smash ). (When you Aim for cool down lag, it is)
Oli main: Depends on the distance really. Dacus isn't guaranteed on a Utilt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Another way to beat the Pikmin toss is to reflect them back at him, reflecting purples is so rewarding.
Now, if you land a a grab at low Damages, you CAN CG him.
I've been told it's a boost grab CG, others say walking ( I've seen it done before ) Some say regular Dash, though, boost seems to reward me more, anyway, you get 6 D-Throws on him, and a follow up Dair.
Oli CAN SDi the Dair on stage rendering our Spike useless.. well.. if he doesn't tech on stage, we can follow up with an Fsmash, Jab, Grab, Dash Attack, Dsmash, Usmash, Tilts, and other Aerials.
If he doesn't SDi the Dair, he can instant Up B to the ledge, but, the Dair may or may not have killed all of his Pikmin, meaning, Oli could fall to his Death. As well as meteor cancel.
Now, when Oli is recovering, assuming they Di up, and he's coming down, they like to whistle as an Insurance Policy just in case they're hit, then they punish us [ Dabuz/ Rich Brown Whistle -> Dair Spike ]
Oli main: Whistle -> Nair is more common
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Knowing this, we can Bair the whistle when he's coming back, and Attack after the whistle armour ends, it's not too Difficult to do. ( It really isn't )
Oli main: That's questionable with a 4 frame window + frames of Nair/Another whistle. If you hit Olimar while you whistle, better make sure your not in range to get counter attacked.
( Two whistles -> 5 frame window) ( Whistle Nair -> 10 frame window to hit Oli )
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Now, when we ledge hog, they like to throw a Pikmin at us to get us off, or Uair the ledge, if they throw a Pikmin and it's not Purple, you're safe.
If they go for a Uair. Ledge Drop Bair works well. ( I didn't say it beat Uair, ledge drop Bair was meant if they go for, not if they do).
No. Olimar's Uair beats All of Falco's aerials (when Falco challenges them from above). This is only safe when you drop down with your invincible frames. It's likely due to hit lag that the frames will wear off. What's better is to DI up & away from the edge when your ledge hogging so that even if Olimar tether's you, you don't get stage spiked. This may also allow you to escape a miss spaced Uair since you'll DI out before the last hit, and regrab the edge. If Olimar is not high enough to propel himself back on stage with his upB, he'll die. Olimar's also like to Fair someone on the edge. Falco's drop down Bair option helps with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1PokeMastr
Sometimes, they Whistle -> Up B on the stage if you grab the ledge, a way to counter this is get up, Usmash/ Grab/ Jab. ( I didn't say plat, but, okay ).
Oli main: If they get on a platform, your punish doesn't work.
clowsui
Smash Legend
Please organize that post >__>
Bloodcross
Smash Champion
Don't get grabbed at early percents. DThrow > USmash > UAir... it's gay and stupidly easy. He has no grab armor, take advantage of that. Just press the A button a lot.
Olimar can outcamp us if they do it right.
When we short hop they will throw pikmin on the ground. If we stand laser, they throw pikmin in the air.
Jab beats most of their kill moves except a spaced grab
uhh, more later i guess
Olimar can outcamp us if they do it right.
When we short hop they will throw pikmin on the ground. If we stand laser, they throw pikmin in the air.
Jab beats most of their kill moves except a spaced grab
uhh, more later i guess
Oli's Pikmin are annyoing because you can get chain grabed
almost by the pikmin except the purple pikmin. Oli out camps Falco with his pikmin,but you can still kinda camp him.
Down-b and N-air helps reflect pikmin back at oli and N-air kills the pikmin. Falco kill moves are not that good and Oli Down-b has armor on it and he'll use that opition to make it hard to kill him. So Oli will make it hard to kill him. Use F-filt as a spacing tool against Olimar. You can't get sheildgrabed.
Falco OoS can be punish with a Fsmash. His U-air beats all of aerials, so its best not to use any of Falco's aerials against Oli's U-air. So i'll say a 0 even
almost by the pikmin except the purple pikmin. Oli out camps Falco with his pikmin,but you can still kinda camp him.
Down-b and N-air helps reflect pikmin back at oli and N-air kills the pikmin. Falco kill moves are not that good and Oli Down-b has armor on it and he'll use that opition to make it hard to kill him. So Oli will make it hard to kill him. Use F-filt as a spacing tool against Olimar. You can't get sheildgrabed.
Falco OoS can be punish with a Fsmash. His U-air beats all of aerials, so its best not to use any of Falco's aerials against Oli's U-air. So i'll say a 0 even
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
We shall SDi the Usmash away from Olimar.. and if he Uair hits us.. we shall SDi that too!
But seriously, I hate this Mu.
But seriously, I hate this Mu.
And killing him is a problem in this MU. Because of the that Down-b.
It gives him armor to make Falco have a hard time killing. And, getting killed by the
purple pikmin and getting chain grabed by the other pikmin.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
*Chain Grabbed.
No offense, but the way you type.. you don't come off as smart in real life, that's the impression I'm getting.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
WHAT 
WANTS:
- Falco wants to camp Olimar when he's far away. Falco has an advantage when he's far away from Olimar outside of his range. When closer, Olimar has responses to Falco's camping. However the money comes from close range. Falco's Jab opens up a LOT of options for him and severely inhibits Olimar's. Camping can lead to damage but you gotta kill him sometime.
- Ultimately, Falco wants Olimar not grounded. Getting him off the stage or just in the air gives Falco a lot of chances for good damage or even the stock. Falco is pretty damn good at frame trapping people in the air and forcing some awkward situations...Olimar is no exception. Just know that Olimar's recovery...while yes it's a tether ...doesn't mean that Oli can be gimped that easily. Good Olimar's don't get gimped often. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try though.
WHAT WANTS:
- Olimar wants to keep Falco at mid range. Close enough to respond to mis-spaced moves or reckless short hops/reflectors, yet far enough to where Jab isn't an immediate danger and that Falco doesn't break past Olimar's zone of space control.
- Ultimately Olimar wants to force Olimar above him and off the stage. Up air and Up Smash can be annoying to deal to with and Olimar as a whole is good at controlling the areas directly in front of him and directly above him. Up-air beats out aerials. Getting Falco off stage should be a goal for anyone like it is to get Olimar off stage. Olimar is looking for those badly timed Phantasms and he has ways of responding. Good Olimars love to FF a Nair and follow up with an Up Smash....don't let this happen to you. Purple Up Smash especially kills hella early on a lightweight like Falco.
STUFF TO KEEP IN MIND
- Reflector is good in moderation and used intelligently.....spam it and you're asking to get *****. Using it far away when Olimar can't rush in and grab you is safe. Mid range you have to be really careful. Reflector is a very large commitment.
- In mid range, you can't be reckless or do stuff just to do things. You are now in Olimar's optimal range. Short hopping like an idiot will get you grabbed, F-Smashed, smacked by a purple toss or...if they wanna embarrass you....Fair you in the face. It's not cute. You have to be patient here and wait for opportunities to get inside or retreat and reset the situation while tacking on some safe damage. But...don't let Olimar control the middle of the stage...it's a very bad situation for anyone and that's where he's strongest.
- If Olimar likes to use F-Smash liberally, rejoice. Powershield it and congrats...you're in.
- Pay attention to how many Pikmin Olimar throws when he's airborne and look for patterns. They're paramount for getting in.
- Once you're gotten inside Olimar's range.....jab that ***. Jab > Grab > Down-Throw gets you in a really good position. Multi hit jab is risky if they have good SDI...you can get aerialed like that. Jab 1 and Jab 2 are good for thwarting Up-Smash and grab attempts....remember...he has no grab armor.
- Nair is legit for getting Pikmin off you.
- If you don't know how to Boost Grab in succession .....go learn it now. Otherwise you're missing out on a lot of free damage with those Chaingrabs. Olimar isn't going to just throw himself at you to hit him. You gotta hustle for it and press every advantage you have as far as you can.
- I love spaced F-Tilt in this MU. It's really safe on block.
That's all for now.
WANTS:- Falco wants to camp Olimar when he's far away. Falco has an advantage when he's far away from Olimar outside of his range. When closer, Olimar has responses to Falco's camping. However the money comes from close range. Falco's Jab opens up a LOT of options for him and severely inhibits Olimar's. Camping can lead to damage but you gotta kill him sometime.
- Ultimately, Falco wants Olimar not grounded. Getting him off the stage or just in the air gives Falco a lot of chances for good damage or even the stock. Falco is pretty damn good at frame trapping people in the air and forcing some awkward situations...Olimar is no exception. Just know that Olimar's recovery...while yes it's a tether ...doesn't mean that Oli can be gimped that easily. Good Olimar's don't get gimped often. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try though.
WHAT
WANTS:- Olimar wants to keep Falco at mid range. Close enough to respond to mis-spaced moves or reckless short hops/reflectors, yet far enough to where Jab isn't an immediate danger and that Falco doesn't break past Olimar's zone of space control.
- Ultimately Olimar wants to force Olimar above him and off the stage. Up air and Up Smash can be annoying to deal to with and Olimar as a whole is good at controlling the areas directly in front of him and directly above him. Up-air beats out aerials. Getting Falco off stage should be a goal for anyone like it is to get Olimar off stage. Olimar is looking for those badly timed Phantasms and he has ways of responding. Good Olimars love to FF a Nair and follow up with an Up Smash....don't let this happen to you. Purple Up Smash especially kills hella early on a lightweight like Falco.
STUFF TO KEEP IN MIND
- Reflector is good in moderation and used intelligently.....spam it and you're asking to get *****. Using it far away when Olimar can't rush in and grab you is safe. Mid range you have to be really careful. Reflector is a very large commitment.
- In mid range, you can't be reckless or do stuff just to do things. You are now in Olimar's optimal range. Short hopping like an idiot will get you grabbed, F-Smashed, smacked by a purple toss or...if they wanna embarrass you....Fair you in the face. It's not cute. You have to be patient here and wait for opportunities to get inside or retreat and reset the situation while tacking on some safe damage. But...don't let Olimar control the middle of the stage...it's a very bad situation for anyone and that's where he's strongest.
- If Olimar likes to use F-Smash liberally, rejoice. Powershield it and congrats...you're in.
- Pay attention to how many Pikmin Olimar throws when he's airborne and look for patterns. They're paramount for getting in.
- Once you're gotten inside Olimar's range.....jab that ***. Jab > Grab > Down-Throw gets you in a really good position. Multi hit jab is risky if they have good SDI...you can get aerialed like that. Jab 1 and Jab 2 are good for thwarting Up-Smash and grab attempts....remember...he has no grab armor.
- Nair is legit for getting Pikmin off you.
- If you don't know how to Boost Grab in succession .....go learn it now. Otherwise you're missing out on a lot of free damage with those Chaingrabs. Olimar isn't going to just throw himself at you to hit him. You gotta hustle for it and press every advantage you have as far as you can.
- I love spaced F-Tilt in this MU. It's really safe on block.
That's all for now.
Pelca
Smash Journeyman
When I beat dabuz, I kind of just looked at him and laughed at how I was winning! It was a joke in it's self! Don't be afraid to laugh at how your facing a space gardner whoose throwing weed plants at you! you'll usually end up winning!