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Falco Matchup #9: Lucas

The_SMILE

Smash Apprentice
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Mar 1, 2010
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143
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Northern Kentucky
Lucas is okay against Falco. He can nair use outta phantom pretty easily, and can stop our camping wif his down b. But it's laggy so bait it n punish. And if he get's falco off stage, then pk thunder can be pretty mean.
 

-DR3W-

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DrewTheAsher
Eh, it seems like Lucas can use PK Thunder, PK Fire, dsmash, nair, fair, dair, or even usmash to counter phantasm. It's safe to say you should recover and use phantasm with serious caution. Thanks for bringing that up, though.

I don't know much about the matchup but I will contribute what I can, when I can.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
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this is either +1 or 0 for falco, my opinion on this MU sways a lot

you really have to abuse falco tools in this MU but the thing is that lucas' jab has the same data in terms of speed. he also has decent footsies tools + mid range mixups with his side b, nair, and ac fair, and has a magnet...more later, at work
 

The_SMILE

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Mar 1, 2010
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Northern Kentucky
Yea of course he has other stuff that works. But nair will most likely be there main thing. Cause it's not really punishable, and not hard to time. Idk about dair, it could work just as well. But I think it gets to high so probably not.

But yea Lucas can **** our recovery if he reads well, cause of his long lasting smashes. And pk snaz.

Just get percent and camp, Lucas's approaching sucks, it'll mostly be nairs and dairs. And be sure to ban brinstar.
 

Linkvader

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 27, 2011
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BAY AREA
Lucas stops our camping, edge guards really well with PK thunder, and is beast in the air.

We shouldn't let him ever take us to Brinstar, DR3W.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
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19,346
Does anyone know if Lucas has a disadvantage when absorbing lasers?
As in, you might be able to approach with a lagless laser and still get a frame advantage because Lucas is stuck in animation.
Although, PSI magnet has hitbox when it is released.

Also, the PSI magnet is not a huge deal. Lucas is immobile while doing it and is not threat. You can get close and nudge his comfort zone about staying in the psi magnet for so long or risk getting hit. So, honestly, it gives falco a reason for getting close to lucas without being in danger and being close is where the real damage is made anyway.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
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Feb 14, 2007
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Chapel Hill, NC
close range:
do falco things. lucas' mixup isn't as good as yours from jab but he has similar tools - a solid ftilt and a 2 frame jab. obviously the properties are different but yeah. he has a better dtilt than us but that's about it at that range + super easy to PS dat. what you really wanna be careful of is his nair mixups when he crosses from close to close or mid to close. chips shields really easily and also puts pressure on your spotdodge because it autocancels


mid-close range:
very scary here. falco's tools, as we all know, are limited around this range from a standing position so falco always has to move in order to avoid this spot. lucas happens to be pretty good here - AC nair, AC fair, dair, whiff ftilt bait, bair sometimes...something important to note here is that lucas can vertically space against your shield with dair at this range and be safe if he has platforms above him. you pretty much have to try and close the distance in this range, always, or run away.

mid range:

this is where PK fire starts becoming viable. best solution is to PS. reflector works. PS'ing and following with side b and stuff...i hadn't considered that option before xD but i think it's unsafe somehow. the thing about PK fire is that he generates false shield pressure by making you PS and then buffering dash AC nair follow ups, or AC fair etc. one of lucas' strongest ranges, also where falco happens to be quite weak since his lasers become more unsafe here. however, falco's side b is invincible around this range and also he can close distances pretty well! sliding spotdodge is not a bad tactic in trying to get in...i dunno i just avoided this range in general lol

mid-long range:

here is where you can punish his magnet attempts provided you know the duration of the hitbox. coincidentally this is one of falco's strongest ranges, one of lucas' weaker ones. camp him here, bait him into magnets, etc. if he ever gives you an opportunity to pressure him further don't hesitate to try and go in. be careful because if the lucas is on the outer parts of this range he can punish your phantasm or be in the neutral position before you, which means the lucas player has more time to react (and thus has a higher advantage, despite the fact that tools to tools wise the position is neutral).

standing still when you have a lead and going to this range is pretty good tactic too, it forces lucas to try to close the gap so you can use your numerous ways of changing the distance between you to get the advantage. i'd say that's one of the better tactics at this position. his pk thunder is unsafe here.

long range:

magnet is frustratingly good at preventing serious camping. he can pk thunder you though, which is annoying! sooooo i guess you just don't really wanna be here.

on the ledge:
falco on the ledge - lucas' ledge trap is mediocre. his pk thunder does pressure you a little bit though. don't be hasty when you're recovering. ledge jumping works fairly well against lucas. don't be too hasty with the side bs, lucas' nair is really good. his ftilt is really good at punishing AD onto stage :( just be patient and you'll find your way back i thinkk.
lucas on the ledge - stand just about three character lengths away. if he PK thunders you should be able to PS reliably and sometimes even try to punish him! if he tries anything from the ledge you can react to it well at this range. don't forget that his zap jump puts him really high and is a decent recovery method because of the sheer vertical distance covered...but it's technically very hard (2 frames leeway). lucas' ledge attack is deceiving though.

juggling -
above lucas - just be careful of PK thunder shenanigans, those can make you airdodge into places you don't like. his uair is shweet and his double jump is kinda deceptive. honestly not much else. he could zap jump to reach you but i dunno how he'd follow up LOL. uair?

below lucas - uair beats his dair spaced correctly. lucas has b reverse tricks but like snake you can zone him aerially and you can cover those mixups on reaction. lucas has a really difficult time landing the lower he gets to the ground because his aerials don't reach far enough horizontally to pressure you as you come towards him. so if you're careful you should be able to get a grab or a hit most times. positionally speaking i would argue that it's actually better to let lucas get off the hook a lot of the time because a lot of the time you will want to deal damage to lucas up close, and letting him land near you puts you in that position a lot...but this might be preference.

edgeguarding -

done by lucas - hasn't happened to me really lol

done by falco - once he loses his jump his options become way more limited obviously. just make sure you understand his mobility and options. it's actually fairly difficult to edgeguard lucas, i focus a lot on ledgetrapping.

all of this comes from experiences vs. tyr, one of the former best lucases.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
You guys have a solid advantage on limiting Lucas's approach. Sure, when you're laser camping a Lucas there's always the threat of him absorbing it, but if the Lucas does it in mid-close range(not close enough to hit Falco with the magnet release)and you read it before firing another laser, you can punish him with a DACUS or a multitude of options since he would still be caught in the lag without absorbtion. Be careful to not get hit by the magnet release, though.

Lucas is in pretty good standing when Falco is offstage for reasons already stated. D-Smash goes through the edge on most stages and can make recovering tricky, but you should still always go for the ledge. Personally, I love punishing a Phantasm with up-smash if the Falco tries to go directly back onstage and hit Lucas, and depending on the timing, they can be successful, but his Up-smash also has some invulnerability frames.

About stages, Brinstar is a Lucas favorite. He has plenty of areas to extend the hitboxes of his moves and can be a pain to fight there, and as far as I know, it isn't the best stage for Falco. A definite ban. As for counterpicking against Lucas, I'd say Final Destination as always, but I don't see why we wouldn't ban that. Lucas mains generally don't like Yoshi's Island, so that is another possibility.

Overall I'd say this is a +1 matchup for Falco.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
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I don't see it. : /

Why should I be scared of Lucas again?

Things I've seen mentioned.

>He has Magnet! Oh ****!

Don't shoot lasers at Magnet. As long as he's holding it out there, then you can move in to a comfortable position just outside of his range if you're behind (worst case scenario) and if you're ahead, you look at him while he derps. You can just short hop around and shoot at him when you feel comfortable doing so like anyone else with a reflector/bucket. At closer ranges, it puts Lucas in the disadvantageous position for having it out.

>He has a good jab and Ftilt.

Yeah, so? We do too, and we have a better grab and ftilt to compliment it. Someone explain to me how we lose to Lucas. I mean, he has a good jab, but it's a 3 hit low percent thing that puts us in a reset position with a little more separation. Falco, on the other hand, has a more damaging jab combo, a good grab to compliment it and put Lucas into the air or off stage to follow up, and, with all due respect to PK Fire and Lucas's fairly good FTilt, better options to play with at mid close range in FTilt, Shine, and even lasers.

>Lucas can wreck Falco's recovery if he gets a good read.

Yeah, who can't? Seriously, Lucas can beat the living **** out of Falco with his smashes and his aerials aren't bad at all for beating Phantasm, but that's nothing Falco doesn't have to deal with from anyone. Hell, Lucas doesn't even need a good read unless he wants to style on you with USmash. Be careful with your recovery for it is bad. Falco 101.

>Lucas's Aerials are safe and good pressure

Ooooooh kay? So Lucas's Nair is a ****ing air shield. Shield, roll, laser, or USmash depending on where and when. Other characters have good pressuring aerials and are scarier with them (Wario comes to mind). I wouldn't recommend spotdodging nair or dair, but it's all spacing just like everyone else and it's far less scary than other characters.

>Lucas's recovery is hard to edgeguard.

Except it's not. Hit him before he hits himself with PK Thunder. Laser him if he's far out. Dair or Bair if he's closer. Reflect if the situation permits. Even hitting Lucas with the reflector is a positive because the knockback sends him at the right angle. Proceed to ledgehog or punish his landing lag accordingly. Of course, all this is assuming no Zap Jump -> Magnet Pull which is actually hard to stop. That, however, requires a double jump, so know when he can and can't do that.

>Lucas is good on Brinstar.

Ban Brinstar, most definitely. Nowhere else gives Lucas enough of an advantage to overcome the match-up.

So yeah 60-40 Falco at worst. What am I missing here?
 

clowsui

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Get off your high horse and read, everyone has been agreeing with you, just have differences about the degree of effectiveness
 

Conviction

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I don't see it. : /

Why should I be scared of Lucas again?

Things I've seen mentioned.

>He has Magnet! Oh ****!

Don't shoot lasers at Magnet. As long as he's holding it out there, then you can move in to a comfortable position just outside of his range if you're behind (worst case scenario) and if you're ahead, you look at him while he derps. You can just short hop around and shoot at him when you feel comfortable doing so like anyone else with a reflector/bucket. At closer ranges, it puts Lucas in the disadvantageous position for having it out.

>He has a good jab and Ftilt.

Yeah, so? We do too, and we have a better grab and ftilt to compliment it. Someone explain to me how we lose to Lucas. I mean, he has a good jab, but it's a 3 hit low percent thing that puts us in a reset position with a little more separation. Falco, on the other hand, has a more damaging jab combo, a good grab to compliment it and put Lucas into the air or off stage to follow up, and, with all due respect to PK Fire and Lucas's fairly good FTilt, better options to play with at mid close range in FTilt, Shine, and even lasers.

>Lucas can wreck Falco's recovery if he gets a good read.

Yeah, who can't? Seriously, Lucas can beat the living **** out of Falco with his smashes and his aerials aren't bad at all for beating Phantasm, but that's nothing Falco doesn't have to deal with from anyone. Hell, Lucas doesn't even need a good read unless he wants to style on you with USmash. Be careful with your recovery for it is bad. Falco 101.

>Lucas's Aerials are safe and good pressure

Ooooooh kay? So Lucas's Nair is a ****ing air shield. Shield, roll, laser, or USmash depending on where and when. Other characters have good pressuring aerials and are scarier with them (Wario comes to mind). I wouldn't recommend spotdodging nair or dair, but it's all spacing just like everyone else and it's far less scary than other characters.

>Lucas's recovery is hard to edgeguard.

Except it's not. Hit him before he hits himself with PK Thunder. Laser him if he's far out. Dair or Bair if he's closer. Reflect if the situation permits. Even hitting Lucas with the reflector is a positive because the knockback sends him at the right angle. Proceed to ledgehog or punish his landing lag accordingly. Of course, all this is assuming no Zap Jump -> Magnet Pull which is actually hard to stop. That, however, requires a double jump, so know when he can and can't do that.

>Lucas is good on Brinstar.

Ban Brinstar, most definitely. Nowhere else gives Lucas enough of an advantage to overcome the match-up.

So yeah 60-40 Falco at worst. What am I missing here?


Looked too high and mighty just to see he had the same ratio as everyone else.
 

-DR3W-

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DrewTheAsher
How does Falco lose to Lucas, you ask?

When the Lucas has experience, can punish your probably predictable bull****, and when you don't know how to handle pressure and situations against him. Also, when you have lack of control of Falco (likely) and just, get outplayed.
 
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