Falco Matchup #37: Diddy Kong

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#2
I am surprised no one has said anything about this match-up yet.

Well, the main thing in my mind when playing this match-up is prevent diddy from getting bananas. Stay close when he does not have any banana's around. This way he is under pressure should he ever attempt to get any. And in order for him to safely get any, he would have to attack you eventually.

Once banana's are on the field, getting them out of this control by simply catching and holding will suffice. I do not think Falco should actively search to use the banana's as a weapon, but rather as an extra line of control along with his normal zoning with lasers.

Banana's in the air do not seem to do much. If it hits, big whoop. It doesn't trip. They are easily caught by either party with aerials or airdodges too. On the ground they are much more difficult to get and are actively covering options. The potential for a trip is even more beneficial. I'd say throwing banana's straight up is pretty pointless.
 

DEHF

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#3
Like Xeylode said, the main objective vs Diddy is to keep him away from his bananas. From what I've tried, the best way to do this is to simple walk up to a banana and pick it up or short fast fall air dodge to pick up the banana. Another trick that seems to work a lot is to do a retreating dair right next to a banana, usually the Diddy will dash attack into you and get hit.

You can avoid getting gimped by Diddy's banana when you're trying to side b on stage by SDing the up when the banana hits you.

Don't jab combo Diddy when he's not holding a banana, it's so easy for him to SDI up and punish the you with a uair.

Overall I feel like Diddy and Falco have the same strengths and weaknesses in this match up. I think this match up is +1 for Falco since Falco is able to camp Diddy well and chip damage even when Diddy has both bananas in his control.
 

SaveMeJebus

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#4
I think it's pretty even. Falco has a hard time killing Diddy if he doesn't get a gimp and Diddy has an easier time punishing Falco's mistakes. Also, Falco has a harder time getting back on stage than Diddy does. Falco's advantages in this match up are his ability to chain grab Diddy (pretty much an auto 50+%) with a chance at gimping Diddy if he spikes him offstage, Better recovery, better projectile, reflector and earlier kills.

Tips:

1.Monkey flip kick can be pretty annoying if Diddy spaces it correctly. The best way to punish it is to shield it and then OOS jump cancelled U-smashing

2.Try to mix up your options when getting back on stage. Diddy can easily punish side b by shielding it and glide tossing towards you

3. If Diddy is below you and trying to recover, you can gimp him with pretty much any aerial. B-air and F-air work best although F-air is pretty risky and may cost you a stock if you miss
 

Blacknight99923

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#5
Slowfall dair rapes diddy's up b.

Having exceptional item control will only work for you in this match up, I'd recommend practicing with bananas whenever you're bored.
 
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#6
Walking up to a banana and pick it up. Quite true DEHF lol I am surprised to see a ton of people feel like they need to rush after it and dash attack to pick it up every single time.
 

1PokeMastr

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#7
I am a Metaknight main, attempting to share my knowledge with a Character I don't main.
I shall take my leave, and not bug you.
However, I do thank you for whatever you posted, it DOES help.
Anyway. I don't actively play this Mu often, so, I can't say much except ->

What I was taught on the Match Up when I asked about it, and practiced it with the same guy who helped me with it ( Stridez ) was that you should never actively throw a Banana right at Diddy with a Glide toss unless it's a punish. Throwing them right at him is what Diddy wants you to do.

Nor should you actively run after a Banana and grab it if he's near it. It's a trap.

When he's pulling them out, you can reflect them as he takes them out, making it a bit harder for him to set up, but, yes, get rid of them as soon as possible.

We should make note of when camping with our lasers when he has a Nanner.
Make sure he CAN'T trap you as you're coming down from the lasers.

Blah Blah Blah.. CG from 0 goes to 43% Etc.

If you see a Side B from him coming, you can Pivot Grab it or Spot dodge.

As for gimping him, I would prefer sour spot bair/ dair over anything.
 

Blacknight99923

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#12
this may seem irrelevant ut on the discussion of items if you glide toss the ray gun (that shoots the falco like lasers not the one you can charge) and it connects you can get a guaranteed bdacus follow up after it.


Also falco in general has an amazing anti item and item game, I think falcos in general should invest in practicing banana tricks and stuff. Its also a bit refreshing from usual tech skill practice.
 

teluoborg

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#13
(1) Banana's in the air do not seem to do much. If it hits, big whoop. It doesn't trip. (2) They are easily caught by either party with aerials or airdodges too. (3) On the ground they are much more difficult to get and are actively covering options. The potential for a trip is even more beneficial. (4) I'd say throwing banana's straight up is pretty pointless.
Disagree, agree, agree and disagree.

1-If a banana hits mid air it's a true combo into an aerial of your choice.

2/3-It's way easier to grab a nana in the air than on the ground, true.
IIRC you can catch a banana during the first 5 frames of any aerial/airdodge, you can also grab a grounded banana by teching on it (SLS does it).

4-throwing a banana straight up is actually a good idea because it creates a column-like zone where you can throw out an aerial with close to no risk of retaliation, and the ground part of that zone greatly limits Diddy's options. Really, with his jump and fall speed Falco is better off with vertical tosses and Z drops than horizontal tosses.
But of course simply SHDLing with a banana in your hand is already broken.

Also my 2 cents are to get familiar with how banana and shield interact because knowing when your shield won't help and when you should punish/catch the rebound helps a lot when Diddy gets his momentum.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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#14
Don't jab combo Diddy when he's not holding a banana, it's so easy for him to SDI up and punish the you with a uair.

Overall I feel like Diddy and Falco have the same strengths and weaknesses in this match up. I think this match up is +1 for Falco since Falco is able to camp Diddy well and chip damage even when Diddy has both bananas in his control.
At the first paragraph, can't he SDI->ZDrop? That's what happens to me.

As to the MU, maybe on a neutral like Battlefield or Smashville, but Diddy does better on more stages, imo. If it's a janky stage, then Diddy generally preforms better. I don't mean just Brinstar/RCruise janky. I mean Delphino/YI janky.

Talk to me about stage choice. I've talked about it with P1 often enough and when we play, he generally bans Halberd and I ban Brinstar. I CP Frigate and he CPs RCruise.
 

DEHF

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#16
At the first paragraph, can't he SDI->ZDrop? That's what happens to me.

As to the MU, maybe on a neutral like Battlefield or Smashville, but Diddy does better on more stages, imo. If it's a janky stage, then Diddy generally preforms better. I don't mean just Brinstar/RCruise janky. I mean Delphino/YI janky.

Talk to me about stage choice. I've talked about it with P1 often enough and when we play, he generally bans Halberd and I ban Brinstar. I CP Frigate and he CPs RCruise.
I feel like Delphino is probably Diddy's best CP not including RC and Brinstar, mainly because of the walk offs and walls. YI and Lylat would be the other CP, but they're not too bad. You would just have to side b less, but I feel Falco's side b isn't that great in the match up anyways.

I feel like Falco does best on the SV, BF, FD, and Frigate. For counterpicks I would probably go with BF or FD, but you can't go wrong with any of those 4.

I guess you can say the match up is +1 or 0, depending on stagelist. I would say +1 assuming Brinstar and RC are gone and 0 with them on.
 

Player-1

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#17
Nah we do better on FD, falco has a hard time landing on that stage. Frigate isn't a bad CP but I definitely feel halberd is better. I think frigate would be slightly in your favor or even. Walk offs probably favor falco more than diddy, it's pretty hard to get a double banana lock going these days, but walls definitely favor us

:phone:
 

DEHF

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#18
Nah we do better on FD, falco has a hard time landing on that stage. Frigate isn't a bad CP but I definitely feel halberd is better. I think frigate would be slightly in your favor or even. Walk offs probably favor falco more than diddy, it's pretty hard to get a double banana lock going these days, but walls definitely favor us

:phone:
I disagree with you on FD. Although our recovery is limited we have more space to avoid bananas and to camp. I feel it is much easier for Diddy to lose banana control on this stage compared to SV.

Halberd is okay, but I prefer Frigate because I feel Falco has more of a chance to force Diddy to use his up b on the right side of the first stage and the second part is really good for Falco. Fighting Diddy when the stage is moving isn't too great imo, the second part Halberd is just as good as the second part of Frigate, possibly better.

I don't see how walk offs would favor Falco, unless we got the chain grab at a low %. Even if you don't double naner lock you could just single naner lock into a smash attack. Falco can do the same with a banana, but it is more likely that Diddy will be using the bananas.
 

Zinoto

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#19
I disagree with you on FD. Although our recovery is limited we have more space to avoid bananas and to camp. I feel it is much easier for Diddy to lose banana control on this stage compared to SV.

Halberd is okay, but I prefer Frigate because I feel Falco has more of a chance to force Diddy to use his up b on the right side of the first stage and the second part is really good for Falco. Fighting Diddy when the stage is moving isn't too great imo, the second part Halberd is just as good as the second part of Frigate, possibly better.

I don't see how walk offs would favor Falco, unless we got the chain grab at a low %. Even if you don't double naner lock you could just single naner lock into a smash attack. Falco can do the same with a banana, but it is more likely that Diddy will be using the bananas.
I don't like playing Falco on FD for DEHF's reason alone. My main cp against Falco is usually lylat, but I like delfino mainly because it moves, usually putting Falco in a bad position. I used to think this MU is even, but Falco's are becoming smarter with side b and learning to use bananas so I'd say +1 Falco.
 

Player-1

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#20
I disagree with you on FD. Although our recovery is limited we have more space to avoid bananas and to camp. I feel it is much easier for Diddy to lose banana control on this stage compared to SV.

Halberd is okay, but I prefer Frigate because I feel Falco has more of a chance to force Diddy to use his up b on the right side of the first stage and the second part is really good for Falco. Fighting Diddy when the stage is moving isn't too great imo, the second part Halberd is just as good as the second part of Frigate, possibly better.

I don't see how walk offs would favor Falco, unless we got the chain grab at a low %. Even if you don't double naner lock you could just single naner lock into a smash attack. Falco can do the same with a banana, but it is more likely that Diddy will be using the bananas.
Falco's camp ability on FD compared to SV is pretty negligible in this MU, it's not too hard for Diddy to avoid lasers with jumps and crawls if anything it might be a bit easier to camp on SV because the platform can give you some overhead cover of an aerial banana when we jump over lasers. Also, it's DEFINITELY easier to keep control of banana stage on FD compared to SV. On FD we don't have a moving platform that interrupts banana combos and then takes our bananas off to the side above offstage

Also, I mean, we have a good chance of forcing Falco to use his up-b on the right side as well and it pretty much guarantees us a punish on your recovery since there's no edge to side-b/up-b to making it transparent. At least, we have options with side-b where we can get to the wall to wall jump from for some mixups, it'd also hurt your camping game a lot. The 2nd transformation is probably equally good for Diddy than it is for Falco in this MU, maybe a little bit easier for Falco, but not by much, both characters would have a hard time trying to approach the other trying to camp the center, I think Falco might have a slightly easier time taking initial control of it which is why I think it may be slightly in Falco's favor here, but not by a whole lot if at all.

The CG at low % is a lot easier to get than a double banana lock, double banana lock only works if your bananas are lined up just right. I think you're using some wrong terminology here, a single banana lock would be...you know locking the opponent with just one banana (in which case we can just infinite you), I think you're talking about just a simple banana>smash combo which you're probably right about it helping diddy more than falco, except really the only Delfino transformation that a Falco player should be near the wall in the first place would be the rooftops, all the other ones would give falco a pretty bad disadvantage to just be there in the first place.


edit:

Also, just to list some of your advantages on Halberd. Lower ceilings = easier kills for you, I suppose you can say the same for us, but Falco has a harder time killing in this MU than Diddy IMO also Falco has an additional advantage thanks to his fast fall speed so it's even harder to kill you off the tops. The giant middle platform hurts our banana combos since they get caught up in there a lot since they take up the majority of the stage. The 2nd half of Halberd is even larger than FD which helps your camping game even more (plus middle platform which I already mentioned).
 

DEHF

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#21
Falco's camp ability on FD compared to SV is pretty negligible in this MU, it's not too hard for Diddy to avoid lasers with jumps and crawls if anything it might be a bit easier to camp on SV because the platform can give you some overhead cover of an aerial banana when we jump over lasers. Also, it's DEFINITELY easier to keep control of banana stage on FD compared to SV. On FD we don't have a moving platform that interrupts banana combos and then takes our bananas off to the side above offstage

Also, I mean, we have a good chance of forcing Falco to use his up-b on the right side as well and it pretty much guarantees us a punish on your recovery since there's no edge to side-b/up-b to making it transparent. At least, we have options with side-b where we can get to the wall to wall jump from for some mixups, it'd also hurt your camping game a lot. The 2nd transformation is probably equally good for Diddy than it is for Falco in this MU, maybe a little bit easier for Falco, but not by much, both characters would have a hard time trying to approach the other trying to camp the center, I think Falco might have a slightly easier time taking initial control of it which is why I think it may be slightly in Falco's favor here, but not by a whole lot if at all.

The CG at low % is a lot easier to get than a double banana lock, double banana lock only works if your bananas are lined up just right. I think you're using some wrong terminology here, a single banana lock would be...you know locking the opponent with just one banana (in which case we can just infinite you), I think you're talking about just a simple banana>smash combo which you're probably right about it helping diddy more than falco, except really the only Delfino transformation that a Falco player should be near the wall in the first place would be the rooftops, all the other ones would give falco a pretty bad disadvantage to just be there in the first place.


edit:

Also, just to list some of your advantages on Halberd. Lower ceilings = easier kills for you, I suppose you can say the same for us, but Falco has a harder time killing in this MU than Diddy IMO also Falco has an additional advantage thanks to his fast fall speed so it's even harder to kill you off the tops. The giant middle platform hurts our banana combos since they get caught up in there a lot since they take up the majority of the stage. The 2nd half of Halberd is even larger than FD which helps your camping game even more (plus middle platform which I already mentioned).
Even though Diddy has the ability to avoid lasers it doesn't mean you'll avoid every single hit. I don't see how Diddy jumping over lasers and throwing bananas is that big of a problem. Falco should be able to shield before the banana hits him if he lands and if he doesn't land I doubt Diddy can get too big of a punish off of it. On FD if would be harder for Diddy to land a banana on Falco while jumping if he's keeping his distance from him anyway. I agree that the platforms on smashville make it harder for Diddy to keep his bananas near him, but I don't see how Diddy would land most of his double naner lock combos if the Falco just kept his distance when Diddy has both bananas out. The moving platform also helps Diddy avoid the use of his up b, which is very gimpable.

If Diddy gets grabbed at a very low % or the dthrow is stale, then it would work, but that isn't something I would rely on. The double naner is an option that Diddy will always have regardless of percents and yes I was referring to banana > smash combo:embarrass:.

I know Diddy can force Falco to use up b on the right side of the first transformation as well, but Falco can pressure Diddy high in the air, forcing Diddy to go lower. Diddy on the second transformation I feel isn't that big of a threat compared to Falco. Diddy would have to jump in order to hit Falco with a banana if he was in the center, plus Falco can still pressure Diddy in the center of the stage with side b. Falco's laser camping becomes much better in the center, Diddy wouldn't be able to crouch under the lasers and Falco's shdl would be able to hit Diddy while he's stand on either side.

Frigate has a lower ceiling as well, not as low as Halberd, but still lower than average.
 

Player-1

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#22
Even though Diddy has the ability to avoid lasers it doesn't mean you'll avoid every single hit. I don't see how Diddy jumping over lasers and throwing bananas is that big of a problem. Falco should be able to shield before the banana hits him if he lands and if he doesn't land I doubt Diddy can get too big of a punish off of it. On FD if would be harder for Diddy to land a banana on Falco while jumping if he's keeping his distance from him anyway. I agree that the platforms on smashville make it harder for Diddy to keep his bananas near him, but I don't see how Diddy would land most of his double naner lock combos if the Falco just kept his distance when Diddy has both bananas out. The moving platform also helps Diddy avoid the use of his up b, which is very gimpable.

If Diddy gets grabbed at a very low % or the dthrow is stale, then it would work, but that isn't something I would rely on. The double naner is an option that Diddy will always have regardless of percents and yes I was referring to banana > smash combo:embarrass:.

I know Diddy can force Falco to use up b on the right side of the first transformation as well, but Falco can pressure Diddy high in the air, forcing Diddy to go lower. Diddy on the second transformation I feel isn't that big of a threat compared to Falco. Diddy would have to jump in order to hit Falco with a banana if he was in the center, plus Falco can still pressure Diddy in the center of the stage with side b. Falco's laser camping becomes much better in the center, Diddy wouldn't be able to crouch under the lasers and Falco's shdl would be able to hit Diddy while he's stand on either side.

Frigate has a lower ceiling as well, not as low as Halberd, but still lower than average.
Obviously we can't avoid every single one, but the jump banana throw will hit if we're close enough (and you continue to SHDL) we're not going to do it if we're like at opposite ends of FD or something. It's not about getting the punish either because we'd be too far to punish with anything significant, it'd just be about messing up your camp game. The moving platform hardly helps our recovery, the only time we're really forced to use our up-b is when we're down below the stage and that platform isn't going to be helping there. Side-b and midair jump usage is more than enough to get us back horizontally. The platform helps Falco's phantasm and up-b recovery much more than Diddy's.

Falco might be able to pressure us in the air forcing us to go lower, but Diddy can at least get lower and just move to the left so as at least to land on the stage. The jumping to throw a banana thing isn't really true for the center, if we're directly in the center then ya I guess so and it's really not that big of a deal for us to jump and throw the banana in the first place, but we're not going to be like a rock and stand directly in the center with no intention on moving at all, we'll be moving at little bit to be able to throw our bananas to get our sliding banana. I'm not sure if you know about it or know what I'm talking about, but if Diddy throws a banana level with the stage's slope then it'll slide on the ground (and go under shields causing an auto slip as well) and it's not that hard to pull off, we just have to be a couple of steps on the slope to do it. Our upward angled ftilt also works really well for camping the center as well as our dtilt. Our dtilt we're already crouching so you can't grab us as well as a lot of other punished options since we'd be on the slope down, it's a frame 4 move with very little cool down, much harder to punish with a slope involved. Phantasm is punishable with OoS Glidetoss and yeah SHDL is very good for him when camping in the center, but we can still just throw a banana at you when you jump (although I'm not refuting it's still effective).

Yeah you're right about the Frigate having lower ceilings as well, and yeah like you said they're not as low as halberd, but Halberd's side blast zones are much farther away than on Frigate (which is closer than usual) which is how diddy gets most of his kills so it pretty much neutralizes or makes it easier for us to kill on Frigate than yourself.
 

DEHF

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#23
Obviously we can't avoid every single one, but the jump banana throw will hit if we're close enough (and you continue to SHDL) we're not going to do it if we're like at opposite ends of FD or something. It's not about getting the punish either because we'd be too far to punish with anything significant, it'd just be about messing up your camp game. The moving platform hardly helps our recovery, the only time we're really forced to use our up-b is when we're down below the stage and that platform isn't going to be helping there. Side-b and midair jump usage is more than enough to get us back horizontally. The platform helps Falco's phantasm and up-b recovery much more than Diddy's.

Falco might be able to pressure us in the air forcing us to go lower, but Diddy can at least get lower and just move to the left so as at least to land on the stage. The jumping to throw a banana thing isn't really true for the center, if we're directly in the center then ya I guess so and it's really not that big of a deal for us to jump and throw the banana in the first place, but we're not going to be like a rock and stand directly in the center with no intention on moving at all, we'll be moving at little bit to be able to throw our bananas to get our sliding banana. I'm not sure if you know about it or know what I'm talking about, but if Diddy throws a banana level with the stage's slope then it'll slide on the ground (and go under shields causing an auto slip as well) and it's not that hard to pull off, we just have to be a couple of steps on the slope to do it. Our upward angled ftilt also works really well for camping the center as well as our dtilt. Our dtilt we're already crouching so you can't grab us as well as a lot of other punished options since we'd be on the slope down, it's a frame 4 move with very little cool down, much harder to punish with a slope involved. Phantasm is punishable with OoS Glidetoss and yeah SHDL is very good for him when camping in the center, but we can still just throw a banana at you when you jump (although I'm not refuting it's still effective).

Yeah you're right about the Frigate having lower ceilings as well, and yeah like you said they're not as low as halberd, but Halberd's side blast zones are much farther away than on Frigate (which is closer than usual) which is how diddy gets most of his kills so it pretty much neutralizes or makes it easier for us to kill on Frigate than yourself.
I feel like throwing the banana just to mess up our camping isn't worth it, if you're not getting a follow up. You're pretty much giving Falco your banana for a small % of damage on him. If the Falco is smart the banana won't bother him and they will continue camping.

The platform helps your recovery a good amount, maybe not as much as it does Falco though. If you're about the same level as the SV platform offstage, maybe slightly lower you're in the perfect position for Falco to hit you with SHDL, which would force you lower and probably force you to use your up b. With the platform there you can just land on the platform and avoid the situation.

You're able to get lower, but Falco's fall speed makes him fast enough to land on the stage before you. If you're in that position you're most likely going to be taking quite a bit damage if you're not force to use your up b.

I agree with you on the dtilt, but I doubt Diddy will be using ftilt so much since it's very punishable. Falco could use reflector if Falco predicts or reacts to Diddy throwing a banana.

Is there a specific area you need to be in for the banana to slide?

I think the second part of Halberd is really good vs Diddy, but the first part is what makes me think Frigate is a better counter pick. The first part is small and has slopes, plus there's a possibility of Falco missing the edges when using side b because the edges don't have walls, like Delfino when the stage is moving.

I don't mind the sides being small on Frigate because there's a chance that Falco can land an fsmash, which is stronger than Diddy's dsmash and fsmash. The bananas make this option more possible since Falco can get a guaranteed fsmash if Diddy trips when he gets hit with the banana.
 

Blacknight99923

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#24
that and its considerably easier for falco to spike diddy than visa versa. The right side mmight even help falco more.

But both characters should be hitting each others recovery on that segment
 

Player-1

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#25
had a pretty good response written out then crashboards happened to me...=/

I'll just answer your question about the banana thing. It is specific, but it it's not so specific where it's really hard to do, it's generally pretty simple especially since we can glidetoss backwards if we're too far forward and glide toss forward if we're too far back or just standing throw if we're there so it's pretty easy to get to it if we need to.


Maybe I'll write the rest out again when I feel like it....crashboards :(
 

Attila_

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#26
i've always felt the biggest issue for falco in this mu is getting back on stage. sure, getting to the ledge is fine, but what next? rco lag is killer, and if you sideB, glide toss oos is gonna put you offstage again. recovering is really hard.

one thing that i don't see many falco's do is use dair as a defence against diddy's sideB. it's actually really effective. it beats it cleanly. space well and you're guaranteed a jab --> grab followup.

also, safest way to gimp diddy (when he's directly below the ledge) is to grab the ledge, then fall with him, and react to the upB with a bair. you should sourspot, killing him and allowing yourself to recover. predicting or using fair can lead to yourself getting gimped, and is rarely worth it.

actually, on that note, if you hold the ledge, and are expecting diddy to launch his barrels, you can time it so that you getup onstage, while diddy flies up past the ledge. this leaves him completely vulnerable to a punish of your choice. all characters can do this, but no one ever does (and i dont know why).
 

1PokeMastr

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#27
Jab to Grab isn't guaranteed.

But, not many people know that.

Though, the Dair for his Side B is a nice Idea.

And getting on stage isn't too bad, we have a lot more options that Just Phantasm. It's still tricky, however.
 

WMSC_Dot

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#28
I have no experience in the Diddy Kong Matchup but I would imagine playing smart with his bananas when you are in control is greatly in our favor. We have quite a few options that we can do if we are keeping his bananas away.

#1) We can keep both of his bananas behind us at one corner of the stage and throw lasers at him, he will be forced to approach as his popgun would be pointless.

Note : Watch for a dash attack

#2) I read that when somebody is on the edge ADHD would keep a banana on his hand and throw peanuts at them until they attempted to recover, if we can keep Diddy on the edge that long it would be great. He would be forced to most likely airdodge onstage but we can just throw a reflector and reset the situation or maybe throw a banana and DACUS at high percents.

#3) If you have control on a stage that you know would be bad for the Diddy to get near put the bananas there, if the Diddy attempts to wait it out throw lasers and juggle the bananas. He MUST get a banana in order to have a chance.
 

FSLAR

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
5
#30
Is Falco (I guess the other spacies as well) more vulnerable to the infinite than some other characters?
 
Joined
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#31
Love this matchup, even though I don't have much experience in it, but I have picked up a few things though. What's been helping me when I have played Schwa is the item game, which makes the games very exciting to watch and incredibly fun to play. Something I have experienced in the hard way, is that even for punishes, it's very risky to do glide toss/throw naner towards diddy if he's landing. Experienced diddys knows how to fair you in the face, giving you a patg DI at the same time as he picks up the naner if he's in neutral state (in the air).

I actually like throwing naners around, just to keep a fast pace and control the stage. But only if you know he can't get control of the naner. You just gotta judge your opponent at that, about how careful you should be. I prefer throwing down or upwards while glidetossing if I do it at all. If you already have the momentum, it's a fast way to move across the stage, still keep the naner away from his reach, and the diddy being at an itemless falcos mercy in a second. This is where I mostly use my fsmashes in this matchup. That and vs a good read side b from ledge.

For glidetoss I think it's a cool thing to know exactly where on your glide that you will throw it, so you can use it against him.
For example in chain grabs: If you're chaingrabbing him and you're coming to the usual nuissance of a naner blocking your path, you can finish a dthrow where you're standing right beside the banana-> quickly pick up the naner -> glidetoss, throwing it down (making diddy trip unless it was the last dthrow of your chaingrab) -> quickly (buffer/)dash grab the way you glided from and keep going the chain grab. It's actually pretty easy if you try it a few times beforehand.
Another thing is if you can read him in the air and space a good glidetoss naner throw upwards. If he's in a neutral state he can catch it, but you can punish him with a bair unless he catches it lagless and/or or if he spaces away. It isn't always worth the risk, but if you have the same momentum as he (him spacing away from you before the glidetoss), it's easier to hit him without him spacing away.

In general, glidetossing is keeping your pace up whenever you're going aggro, as long as you can keep it safe. Throwing the naner upwards also keeps it alive longer, giving diddy a longer time before he can pull out a new one, and gives you your jab back to stop him in his track if he's in reach. Zoning is important in this matchup, where you gotta consider the bananas a big part of the zoning game, and that's one of the reasons a good item game is important in this matchup. I'd still say that the best thing to do in theory is still holding the banana and camping him with lasers, but hey, what is falco without mixups?
 

SN Viper

Formerly 9th in FL PR
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Mar 31, 2010
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#32
one thing that i don't see many falco's do is use dair as a defence against diddy's sideB. it's actually really effective. it beats it cleanly. space well and you're guaranteed a jab --> grab followup.
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If diddy hit the kick option your dair will lose. The hit box on the kick option of the side be is dumb. I have learned that nair will be a more effective counter to side b if he kicks. I think that diddys side b is one of his best tools vs falco.
 
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