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Falco Matchup #23: Wolf
- Thread starter -DR3W-
- Start date
clowsui
Smash Legend
this MU is very close to 50-50
whoever gets the kill first is in a winning position
make sure you respect wolf's punishment capabilities. he hits for hella damage
don't underestimate his survival ability. that dude is fat
when you edgehog after cg, wait until his up b animation is in the "charging" state - then grab. don't grab before the animation has started at all
ftilt and nair are really good in this MU. nair is particularly good at cutting through a lot of his aerials and ftilt is good at making sure you control the footsies game
ledge trapping wolf is annoying, so is juggling him (though not nearly as much). juggling just focus on his landing moreso than anything. on the ledge make sure wolf is facing towards you when he lands...once you give him bair opportunities it's annoying
wolf's bair is super good, btw. his usmash/bair/fair/uair are just really good at knocking you around. don't hesitate to retreat vs wolf
whoever gets the kill first is in a winning position
make sure you respect wolf's punishment capabilities. he hits for hella damage
don't underestimate his survival ability. that dude is fat
when you edgehog after cg, wait until his up b animation is in the "charging" state - then grab. don't grab before the animation has started at all
ftilt and nair are really good in this MU. nair is particularly good at cutting through a lot of his aerials and ftilt is good at making sure you control the footsies game
ledge trapping wolf is annoying, so is juggling him (though not nearly as much). juggling just focus on his landing moreso than anything. on the ledge make sure wolf is facing towards you when he lands...once you give him bair opportunities it's annoying
wolf's bair is super good, btw. his usmash/bair/fair/uair are just really good at knocking you around. don't hesitate to retreat vs wolf
Unlike you, he has top 5 aerial mobility in the game (Not acceleration). If he gets knocked to the corner, he's probably gonna make it back with just a double jump.
I've only played this match about twice.
I've only played this match about twice.
M@v
Subarashii!
If you get a grab early, its a stock. That's something we rarely get anymore since most people know how to survive cg spike. Its just impossible to do with wolf. Be sure to space the dair right so he can't SDI it.
Close to even.
If you're doing SHDLs, Wolf can DACUS under and hit you, or walk up and dsmash if he's closer. Watch out for that.
If you ever have to use your upB, Wolf gets a free stock with shine gimping. He'll usually try to get you in this position by blastering your sideB attempt onto the stage, but if you buffer another sideB you should be able to snap to the ledge safely.
The CG-spike tacks on a decent amount of damage, but afaik Wolf can SDI it. Information on why he can't, M@v? I heard something about delaying the spike, but it's still possible, pretty sure. Speaking of the CG, you can CG Wolf in place with buffered dthrows. Wolf's bair is really safe and he can avoid the grab decently (doesn't work after 23%), but imo Falco applies pressure really well. Idk, it's stressful for me at low %s at least lol, most others seem to do fine though.
Falco has a very hard time killing Wolf imo, you'll want to keep utilt in mind here. Huge hitbox, very irritating for Wolf imo. Kills effectively when you're having a hard time landing other moves, and Wolf has no fastfall so he dies a bit faster off the top.
Dair is annoying, but that just happens to me lol. Wolf's weight and fallspeed makes it kinda easy to repeatedly dair him at mid %s, where his options to get out are pretty meh and Falco has an appropriate solution to cover each one.
Otherwise, basically agreed with everything that was mentioned.
If you're doing SHDLs, Wolf can DACUS under and hit you, or walk up and dsmash if he's closer. Watch out for that.
If you ever have to use your upB, Wolf gets a free stock with shine gimping. He'll usually try to get you in this position by blastering your sideB attempt onto the stage, but if you buffer another sideB you should be able to snap to the ledge safely.
The CG-spike tacks on a decent amount of damage, but afaik Wolf can SDI it. Information on why he can't, M@v? I heard something about delaying the spike, but it's still possible, pretty sure. Speaking of the CG, you can CG Wolf in place with buffered dthrows. Wolf's bair is really safe and he can avoid the grab decently (doesn't work after 23%), but imo Falco applies pressure really well. Idk, it's stressful for me at low %s at least lol, most others seem to do fine though.
Falco has a very hard time killing Wolf imo, you'll want to keep utilt in mind here. Huge hitbox, very irritating for Wolf imo. Kills effectively when you're having a hard time landing other moves, and Wolf has no fastfall so he dies a bit faster off the top.
Dair is annoying, but that just happens to me lol. Wolf's weight and fallspeed makes it kinda easy to repeatedly dair him at mid %s, where his options to get out are pretty meh and Falco has an appropriate solution to cover each one.
Otherwise, basically agreed with everything that was mentioned.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
Is this really close to even?
I figured if you play this like the ditto and watch out for shine mixups, then its pretty free.
I figured if you play this like the ditto and watch out for shine mixups, then its pretty free.
Don't try to juggle Wolf much because he has a reflector, fair, nair and sometimes bair to shut you down. Fair/bair could kill at high percents obviously.
Like Clowsui said, when you spike him...wait for the first little section of up-b before you grab the ledge, or you will be hit by the last hit and stage spiked.
That's all for now.
Like Clowsui said, when you spike him...wait for the first little section of up-b before you grab the ledge, or you will be hit by the last hit and stage spiked.
That's all for now.
Zwei Striker
Smash Apprentice
Basic stuff
Iirc we get 6 grabs+ follow up
Our Jab is 2 frames faster, but still be careful, because he can shine you between your first and second, while we can't but try to SDI
His shine gives him 4 frame advantage, that means he can jab you out of it and will probably try to dsmash you
His bair is a pain, and i recall reading that if it's well spaced and timed, it's unpunishable.
Phantasm to recover over the stage isn't really convenient since he can easily laser you out of it, and while it won't gimp, you will allow him to rack up damage.
He gets frame advantage when you tech his dthrow, i think he can grab you again.
You should always keep his scarring in mind if he's on the ledge, he might try to use it to get back on the stage.
As clowsui said, ftilt works wonders, we just outrange pretty much everything he has but fsmash I think.
His nair can combo into stuff if Wolf lands on a hit with hitstun
His reflector can... well, reflect our lasers, but I think we can still force an approach, or bait a reflector to punish if we space ourselves correctly. (don't quote me on this, it could be that my brother is a sucky wolf)
On the killing, I agree with Ishieymoro that it's kinda hard, but bair and utilt really make the cut.
I know there's a lot of "I think" there, but I would like to have someones confirmation before stating those as true.
Iirc we get 6 grabs+ follow up
Our Jab is 2 frames faster, but still be careful, because he can shine you between your first and second, while we can't but try to SDI
His shine gives him 4 frame advantage, that means he can jab you out of it and will probably try to dsmash you
His bair is a pain, and i recall reading that if it's well spaced and timed, it's unpunishable.
Phantasm to recover over the stage isn't really convenient since he can easily laser you out of it, and while it won't gimp, you will allow him to rack up damage.
He gets frame advantage when you tech his dthrow, i think he can grab you again.
You should always keep his scarring in mind if he's on the ledge, he might try to use it to get back on the stage.
As clowsui said, ftilt works wonders, we just outrange pretty much everything he has but fsmash I think.
His nair can combo into stuff if Wolf lands on a hit with hitstun
His reflector can... well, reflect our lasers, but I think we can still force an approach, or bait a reflector to punish if we space ourselves correctly. (don't quote me on this, it could be that my brother is a sucky wolf)
On the killing, I agree with Ishieymoro that it's kinda hard, but bair and utilt really make the cut.
I know there's a lot of "I think" there, but I would like to have someones confirmation before stating those as true.
Bead
Smash Ace
Wolf can Nair Falco's phantasm if he tries it to get on stage. It almost guarantees a free hit, sometimes a free kill assuming Falco was knocked off the stage due to high percent and Dsmash easily combos from Nair
I feel as though you have to play Wolf very patiently against a Falco.
I feel as though you have to play Wolf very patiently against a Falco.
MegaRobMan
Smash Hero
Oh god...just pick Marth if you can't play "gay" enough as wolf.
gay=only throwing bair's from safe zones/platforms until falco realizes he can't get the grab on the first stock and starts camping lasers/retreating nairs.
Seriously, if Wolf doesn't play this matchup like he's fighting ice climbers (til 50% or so), you are NOT allowed to play wolf in match 2 or 3.
Shine destroys falco off stage.
gay=only throwing bair's from safe zones/platforms until falco realizes he can't get the grab on the first stock and starts camping lasers/retreating nairs.
Seriously, if Wolf doesn't play this matchup like he's fighting ice climbers (til 50% or so), you are NOT allowed to play wolf in match 2 or 3.
Shine destroys falco off stage.
Bloodcross
Smash Champion
I used to play jjwolf a lot so....
I have no input!
I have no input!
Pretty sure that, if done correctly in an arc, ANYONE can SDI out of it.
What gives you that impression?Is this really close to even?
I figured if you play this like the ditto and watch out for shine mixups, then its pretty free.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
I don't see Wolf having anything that beats anything Falco has. Its ridiculous. 65:35
I don't care anymore though. I'm going to end my input with ^^^^
I don't care anymore though. I'm going to end my input with ^^^^
DJ Arcatek
Smash Champion
This is 55:45, Falco's favor. It couldn't be even, imo. Falco just has the tools to shut down Wolf, not to mention the possibility of getting a free stock off of a grab.
Ban Battlefield vs him, imo.
Ban Battlefield vs him, imo.
I actually think it's the free 60+ from the CG that gives Falco the +1 in this match-up. Unlike Fox, Wolf doesn't get it back for free.
tekkie
Smash Master
55:45, falco outprioritizes wolf, chaingrab, better laser, yadda yadda
but wolf's aerials do well against falco, usually like clashing or something
i also think falco kills wolf easier than the other way around
but wolf's aerials do well against falco, usually like clashing or something
i also think falco kills wolf easier than the other way around
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
- Messages
- 2,251
The knowledge of what some of these people have on these MU's is Hilarious.
The CG goes to 48%.
0-53%. No follow up.
0-48% + Follow up.
You can follow up at 53% with F-Tilt aimed up, or Dair, but if they Di away and dodge, it's pretty much useless. So a follow up at 48% is better. Where you can.. U-Tilt, Usmash, Bair, Dair, Nair, FTilt, Stutter Step F-Smash.
And a Spaced Bair from Wolf is always safe on block, regardless of the Damage he's at.
Damage =/= Spacing.
When you're at a Damage were you're in the 'I don't have to tech because the knockback isn't strong enough to make me tech' animation, ( Non Tumble, 0-40% or 50 ) You can Jab him.
When you Tech, You can Jab him.
Also, Wolf should be alive to the 160-180s vs us.
We should Live to the 140s.
That's my 'Correct you guys on some wrong info' Input.
I'd give my Input on the MU, But, for some reason, I'd like to read yours and correct you on your mistakes.
The CG goes to 48%.
0-53%. No follow up.
0-48% + Follow up.
You can follow up at 53% with F-Tilt aimed up, or Dair, but if they Di away and dodge, it's pretty much useless. So a follow up at 48% is better. Where you can.. U-Tilt, Usmash, Bair, Dair, Nair, FTilt, Stutter Step F-Smash.
And a Spaced Bair from Wolf is always safe on block, regardless of the Damage he's at.
Damage =/= Spacing.
When you're at a Damage were you're in the 'I don't have to tech because the knockback isn't strong enough to make me tech' animation, ( Non Tumble, 0-40% or 50 ) You can Jab him.
When you Tech, You can Jab him.
Also, Wolf should be alive to the 160-180s vs us.
We should Live to the 140s.
That's my 'Correct you guys on some wrong info' Input.
I'd give my Input on the MU, But, for some reason, I'd like to read yours and correct you on your mistakes.
MegaRobMan
Smash Hero
If you add the word "retreating" to Space Bear, I agree. If you are approaching and depending on the cloud cover above you, neutral, Falco can PS-grab wolf even with immaculate spacing.
So, in other words, an easy 60+ off of a See Spot Run read.
Zwei Striker
Smash Apprentice
Just checked... we can only jab him before 30%... after that he has a frame advantage of 6, just enough to re-grab us actually; that frame advantage becomes 4 after 140%