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Falco Matchup #11: Pokemon Trainer

-DR3W-

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DrewTheAsher
Pokemon Trainer matchup discussion.

Regarding my contribution to this matchup, let me just say that I personally have very little Pokemon Trainer experience. I'm just using logic and reasoning. If something is inaccurate please do correct me or add to what I have to say. Thanks kiddies.

Also I might add more another time.

:squirtle:
Ryker said:
He can Utilt lock you to about 70 and he's fairly quick, has good air mobility, and quick aerials he can string together pretty well.. His DThrow is his best kill if he doesn't gimp your phantasm. Play carefully.

:ivysaur:


:charizard:
 

Zigsta

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Reflex really knows this MU from playing Kismet. I'd definitely ask them both for their opinions.

:phone:
 

-DR3W-

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#HBC | Ryker

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Having played Reflex, don't **** with Squirtle. Respect him a lot. He can Utilt lock you to about 70 and he's fairly quick, has good air mobility, and quick aerials he can string together pretty well.. His DThrow is his best kill if he doesn't gimp your phantasm. Play carefully.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Alright. Thanks Zig.

UNTIL THEN I found some videos.

Kismet (Falco) vs Reflex (Pokemon Trainer)
October 2010
[winners finals set, best of 5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UekPBQyF5ac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIttkDjooQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TleYKyb7Q1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vKAhTqeiyg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySKWxsaXFDQ

I'm actually glad it went to game 5. Impressive.
God, I don't want to remember that tourney. I lost to Kismet and AL's Pikachu main. Bad memories.
 

TheReflexWonder

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I had something nice typed up right before I had to go to work. Apparently, someone used my laptop while I was gone and closed it all. >:[

I'll get to summarizing it sometime soon...
 

Supreme Dirt

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This is painful.

If you CG Ivysaur to the edge and spike, just grab the ledge as soon as you can and she dies.

Not fun at all for Ivysaur, but Squirtle for sure stands a chance, and Charizard as well to a certain degree. If Ivysaur is out, abuse the hell out of her.
 

-DR3W-

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This is painful.

If you CG Ivysaur to the edge and spike, just grab the ledge as soon as you can and she dies.

Not fun at all for Ivysaur, but Squirtle for sure stands a chance, and Charizard as well to a certain degree. If Ivysaur is out, abuse the hell out of her.
By abuse you mean hit then switch then yeah, do that.
 

Supreme Dirt

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?
I meant if Falco has the chance to prevent Ivysaur from switching, it's very likely a guaranteed stock. Ivysaur has next to no options against Falco.

Oh, also camp out our stamina.
 
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If you CG Ivysaur to the edge and spike, just grab the ledge as soon as you can and she dies.
If I recall, Falco cannot get to the ledge fast enough before Ivysaur can tether to the ledge. Although, it leaves Ivysaur vulnerable to getting attacked. Anyway, it can be prevented.

The Pokemon decay after 2 minutes and every second they spend unused that time gets added back to the decay meter. So if Squirtle is out 2 minutes, then doesn't see battle for another 30 seconds, he will be undecayed until those 30 seconds are up again.

Also, Falco does not have a forced air release on Squirtle, except if you manage to grab him out of the air. For example, if you dthrow -> regrab before he hits the ground, you can do some air release shenanigans. Although, I do not think Falco has much on Squirtle out of an air release except a dash attack.
 

MARLX

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Match Up Pokemon Trainer

Alright. Thanks Zig.

UNTIL THEN I found some videos.

Kismet (Falco) vs Reflex (Pokemon Trainer)
October 2010
[winners finals set, best of 5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UekPBQyF5ac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIttkDjooQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TleYKyb7Q1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vKAhTqeiyg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySKWxsaXFDQ

I'm actually glad it went to game 5. Impressive.
I can call this a 60-40 in falcos favor.
Why? because all the pokemon can be chain grabed to a pretty high percent.
They don't have the best of recovery's, also they can be ledge guarded easily.
Ivysaur-70-30 Falco favor
charizard-60-40 Falco favor
squirtle-55-45 squirtle favor
But, the reason this match up isn't 70-30 is because falco has some problems of his own against each pokemon imo.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Okay, here you go--

Squirtle does pretty well for himself. Falco has to be very careful in a lot of situations. Jab can stuff Squirtle when he's up close, but Squirtle's F-Tilt outranges it, and Squirtle's Jab is faster. Both moves are faster than Falco's grab, and Squirtle's grab has greater range. When you jab, don't rapid A. Always grab before that point--Otherwise, you'll get SDI'd into an aerial of choice.

When Squirtle grabs Falco, he gets a U-Throw, which usually puts Falco in a terrible position, due to Squirtle's short-hop U-Air being so great at frame traps and a Hydrograb being able to trap the ground he falls on with little risk. A well-timed Squirtle U-Air beats Falco's D-Air, too. Falco must take great care not to be put above Squirtle.

Squirtle can have difficulties getting back on the ground against Falco. Keeping Squirtle off the ground is important for Falco. Falco's Jab is difficult to get around, for fear of his grab stuff. Feel free to camp; it will be easier if Squirtle can't KO you until ~160%. I'd say it's about even.

Ivysaur gets molested. Can't do anything about Falco's camping or his close range game. She is edgeguarded by Falco pretty easily. Falco is light enough to make DI'ing the initial hit of Bullet Seed pretty easy. The only dodge that Falco should be doing is his super-distanced back roll--If you keep coming at Ivysaur with quick attacks, she can't do anything, but spotdodging and airdodging will allow her to get a grab or strong hit here and there. Juggle her with Dash Attack. Spike her into the ground again and again. Watch out for Ivysaur's Dash Attack, though--It's Frame 4, clanks with most moves, and hits fairly hard.

The matchup is really bad for Ivysaur--25-75, probably. Unless Falco is one attack away from a KO (or at least from being far enough away to safely switch), using Ivysaur should be avoided at all costs. Falco players should make the most of this.

Charizard is a mixed bag--He's incredibly easy to juggle and combo, but small mistakes can cost Falco dearly in a lot of situations. If you grab Charizard in the middle of the stage, he should be taking a minimum of 81%.

The standard chaingrab to spike gives Falco one extra D-Throw before the D-Air. If he SDI's onto the stage, his tech roll is very easy to follow (either with a jab -> grab or another D-Air), and if he doesn't, a combination of his two mid-air jumps and Up-B allows him to barely make it onto the stage, where Falco can leave the edge and D-Air him again. Falco N-Air tends to be pretty safe to keep Charizard off, and it even functions decently as an approach.

Now, all of that sounds very bad for Charizard (and it is :( ), but Charizard has some great stuff going for him, as well. Charizard can juggle Falco quite well. U-Air stays out for a while and outranges Falco's D-Air. Charizard's tail flame doesn't have a hurtbox, so his N-Air creates a nasty win-win situation near the ground, as it sweetspots Falco if he tries to attack and sourspots him if he airdodges through it. At low percents, the sourspot combos into a grab, and at higher percents, it creates an awkward fall that must be teched, or Charizard will Jab reset into either full Rock Smash (45% damage and can be followed up until high percents) or a charged F-Smash (WILL KILL YOU).

Even if Falco does tech, it's easy to follow with Charizard's run speed (which rivals Meta Knight's), which gives him another grab to create that situation again. Speaking of run speed, it tends to put Falco players on edge when it comes to using Phantasm, since Charizard will catch up to it pretty quickly. Charizard's well-spaced N-Air beats Phantasm, and the threat of Flamethrower makes recovering a daunting prospect, since going to the ledge could get Falco gimped by an edgehog, and going above can lead to massive damage from Flamethrower (with proper fire movement, SDI'ing can be -really- difficult). Falco must be careful if Charizard grab-releases, as an instant spotdodge ends as soon as Charizard's instant F-Smash starts to hit. Charizard can shield a jab and U-Smash out-of-shield, too. Also, Charizard has enough range to grab you immediately out of grab-release, and Falco can only Jab or attempt to avoid an attack.

Basically, both characters can do really mean things to each other, but Falco's stuff doesn't really have to be set up at all, whereas Charizard has to put himself at risk in order to start most of it. I'd call it around 40-60, Falco's favor. It's tough for Charizard, but by no means unwinnable.

Overall, I'd say the matchup is 60-40, Falco's favor. PT has to work much harder than Falco to win, but it's definitely a matchup that Falco could regret not knowing against a competent PT.
 

-DR3W-

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So helpful Reflex. Thanks for the double perspective.

I'll summarize it and move on to the next thread.

See you in the Wario matchup Reflex.
 

Pelca

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one of the hardest MU's if you don't know it. Watch out for squirtle when he trys to squirt you, ivysour when he trys to whip yer a hole, and charizard when he trys to get you flamed up and high. dont be afraid to shield his flames and light a joint off of them when you get a quick chance. It's a good relaxer that helps you win!
 
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