Falco laser spam

[Erimir]

Anyone have any ideas about what to do vs. Falco laser spam?

I played someone online (on FD) and after doing decently at first, he decided he would just run to the edge and spam lasers a lot.

The whip doesn't seem to destroy them, or at least f-tilt can't. Simon's projectiles are slow enough that he can usually reflect them. Since they have hitstun unlike Fox's lasers, you'll eat a bunch of damage if you don't block or jump to avoid them. Obviously if you're good enough to just perfect shield them over and over you'll be able to approach, but that's kind of difficult and "just have really good timing" isn't really a strategy (obviously, if you have perfect timing you should just do that all the time...).

Simon may have trouble with characters that can camp him, but at least the whip can destroy or stop most projectiles. But the projectiles that it doesn't work very well against seem like they will be a big problem.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I haven't played a whole lot of matchup, bit have you tried all of the options available?

Like, down+a to slide under lásers, and possibly punishing him in the process?
Maybe a conbination of shielding and sliding will get you near.

Also, if you get the Upper hand, hold A and swing that whip in circles. I'm not sure if it works on lasers.

 

[Ruvido]

Did you figure this out yet? Intuitively I'd have to agree Falco has the potential to be one of the Belmonts' worse matchups because of reflector, so this should be worth discussing.

I've got a few ideas that could work but won't be able to until tomorrow probably. There's going to be lots of speculation in here as I haven't played the game much yet and just unlocked Falco last night, just note.

For approaching:
In terms of just movement, walking forward and shielding should work for a slow advance as long as lasers don't have insane shield stun or something (I haven't had a chance to play much of the game yet. Just unlocked Falco last night before going to sleep). If there's not enough time to walk forward a bit after shielding a laser, then try jumping over the next incoming one and landing in-between the gap between that and the incoming 3rd laser. Short hop directional air dodge through one? Pretty much as adjust as needed.

For stopping it:
I could see side B potentially working in one of two ways. First off (unrealistically) if you can throw the cross and get to behind Falco he'd have to respond to the cross's return. Alternatively you might have some success with this if you try to throw it in the air instead of the ground to prevent him from short hopping. Ground laser should be punishable if you get close enough with maybe a diagonal down forward fair (fair3?).
What I'd imagine would more likely try is to get a side b out in the opposite direction of Falco and use the cross's return trip to create an opening for a punish. This would probably work better than throwing it directly at Falco because if it gets reflected, you're still either far enough away where you can't do anything and the Falco starts laser spamming again, or you're at mid range and probably have to jump over or block the cross yourself which doesn't really change the situation much. Go all the way to the other side of FD if you have to make room if you have to I guess. Do what you can to get to moderately close to Falco while not getting locked down by lasers, and if you can avoid catching the cross so that it travels towards Falco while you're still free to move (instead of stuck in a position far away where you threw the cross, or at mid range where you'd probably just have to block the cross reflected back at you), you should be able to respond accordingly to his actions. If he does reflector or stays in place then maybe jump -> diagonal dair / holy water?. Dash attack and d-tilt feel like they'd be good for catching rolls.

If Falco fully commits to laser spamming Neutral B probably works too. If you can full jump over the lasers and aim your the axe at where Falco is lasering he has to at least block or reflector (more likely just move a little). If it hits him great, but if it (likely) doesn't it could at least help get you time to get a cross out as stated above. Also creates a mixup of where you're going to aim your axe. But neutral B is so slow I'd think it only works from really far away less you risk Falco running up to you just smacking you with an aerial or punishing your landing.

 

[dahuterschuter]

The thing I love about Simon is he plays much like in Castlevania itself, a unique touch I think has been getting better and better with each game trying to make characters really close to their main series gameplay.

In Castlevania, there's lots of enemies that just shoot straight line projectiles, and usually you gotta jump over them. In Smash you can do the same, shorthopping in betweeen, but online in particular that's gonna be very hard. You can try sliding under? Also does anyone know if you can use the jab chain spinning to neutralize lasers? Does it cover lasers? I haven't tested it.

Been really wanting to main Simon just on principle, interested in this question now I think I need to do some labbing since Falco on the surface seems like a really hard wall to Simon given his vertical jump speed and height and mobility makes hitting the narrow horizontal whips difficult an the laser spam plus reflector means zoning is at a disadvantage. Falco is a much faster up close brawler than the slow whip moves too, just gotta pick very precise projectile times to catch attacks and stuff I think.

 

[Erimir]

Yeah, maybe using the first part of the slide to get close enough, then either using the second part or some other attack could work.

Some testing shows that Simon can't destroy Falco's lasers with any of his moves. The f-tilt whip appears to go over them, but that's not the issue, even dash attack won't stop them (Simon will get interrupted instead).

You can slide under them with the first part of d-tilt, but the CPU set to neutral special in training doesn't fire at max rate and obviously doesn't change to using the reflector or other attacks when you get closer.

The upside is that Falco's lasers don't affect your projectiles either. But they're kind of slow, so you won't necessarily be able to get them off before Falco can block or use reflector (particularly the axe, which is very slow, or the holy water, which requires you to be closer or to telegraph more by jumping high enough to aim it at Falco). And while I was able to hit Falco with the cross, I ended up taking more damage from him. You probably have to time it with his laser shots, since he may be able to react depending on when in his cycle. And you have to get the fast/far cross since his lasers reach so far.

I'm guessing that downward tilted side aerials will be an important part of dealing with Falco... but you need good spacing and you can't get close enough without either using full jumps or getting closer within laser range.

It might just be a horrible matchup for Simon, or it might be a very swingy one. Depends on how easy it is to rack up damage/get the kill once you get Falco into disadvantage. But neutral will be a pain either way.

 

[krazyzyko]

Parry or slide close enough to punish with a diagonal fair.