Q&A Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion

[Ffamran]

Moving this to the general discussion and Q&A.

I am having lots of trouble with Dash -->(pivot?) -->Jump--> B-air, I've seen plenty of people doing it, instant, like it was cake, but I can't find anything to tell me how they do it.

Is it a normal rotation as fast as I can? or is it some kind of technic that I have never heard of?

Any tips?

Thank you.

If you're moving right, until you get close enough or feel like you're close enough to your opponent, , (or whatever you have assigned to jump), and or + if you don't use the C-stick to do aerials and/or tilts. It's easier the longer you run.

If you're standing in place, then just turn around and Bair, so if you're facing left and want to Bair to the left, , (jump), and or + .

People call it "reverse aerial rush" (RAR), but I call it pivot since it's easier to say and makes more sense than the really long term. I guess the reason why people say RAR is because you could only run, turnaround, and jump in Brawl onward since in 64? and Melee, you couldn't jump while turning around. You can turnaround and jump while standing and walking which requires some more gentle inputs. Anyway, the reason why I say pivot is because you basically do a pivot and then jump after it instead of say, Ftilt or grab for a pivot grab.

A pivot without any other inputs or a turnaround is basically this if you're moving right, and when you want to turn . This of course causes your character to slide since you didn't input anything else and your character is turning around to run towards the left. If you do this with a walk, then you're doing a pivot walk which for some characters doesn't do much, but Falco can move forward pretty well with it for some reason.

A pivot grab would be this if you're moving right, , when you want to turn, + (or whatever is grab). Remember to press them both at the same time or you'll do a Ftilt instead.

Pivot Ftilt would be this while moving right, , when you want to turn, + . With C-stick to Smash or tilts, you can do pivot Smash or tilts by replacing the + input with whatever input.

So, run, turnaround, jump, and Bair or any aerial or Special you want you want. Pivoting in general is good since Falco makes heavy use of Bair, can use Uair's back hit to setup Bair, and Nair always launching people in front of him makes pivot Nair useful for control. Pivoting Specials can lead to "B-reverses" and "wavebounces", but that's something else for another time. If you want some videos, search on YouTube; ESAM's got a guide on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXM0O5PXbQ4 or this dude's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwFQ2MsgmtM.

 

[Jeremi Tschiember]

Wow, thanks alot Ffamran, really appreciated, seeing all those details, it really helps.

Gotta do some Falco homework now.

 

[DavemanCozy]

This tech was posted on the Fox board a few days ago, but well I thought I'd share here too.

In the last competitive impressions thread (before the tier list thread), Ffamran posted that Fox and Falco can no longer shorten their Illusions. Well, that's not entirely true. There is one specific case where Fox can shorten Illusion if he does it at a very specific height near the ledge:

How this works: holding down while close to the ledge makes you not grab the ledge. This has been in smash forever and is well known. What is interesting is how Fox's Illusion reacts in this game; at a very specific height, Fox won't simply fall down nor zoom through half of the stage, but he'll appear just near the ledge. This works from every distance close enough to hit the ledge.

I have yet to test it with the blue bird, but I would think that it's possible with him too. Can someone here check this out to see if Falco can do this?

 

[Ffamran]

Quoting this over. Basically, it's an observation of the impact of 1.1.4's changes to Falco's Up Smash.

Was curious about 1.1.4 Falco's Up Smash and now it stacked up with Wolf's considering they're similar functionality..

Notes before reading any of this: for multi-hits, some of them have frame gaps, gaps where there is no hitbox until the next set of hits are called. Some moves don't have this or if they're very negligible like 1 to 3 frames, then they'll be denoted by an asterisk, *, e.g. a move has total 10 active frames, 4 on the first hit and 6 on the second, but it has a 2 frame gap, so the total active frames would be, in a multi-hit format, 4*6. If there's notable gaps, then parentheses, ( ), will be used to show the gap e.g. move has 6 active frames, 3 per hit, and a 10 frame gap, so it would be shown as 3(10)3. In the case of comparing data, regardless if it's "negligible" like a 4 frame gap, I'm just going to show it unless there is a 0 frame gap.

Spoiler: Not really relevant observations

Spoiler: Pheasant & Wolf

Hit 1

|Startup|Active|Damage|Angle|Base|Set|Growth
(Pre-1.1.4) |8|5|4%|110° / 110° / 130° / 220°|60 / 60 / 80 / 0|0 /0 / 0/ 15|25 / 25 / 30 / 100
(1.1.4) |7|5|4%|110° / 110° / 130° / 220°|70 / 70 / 70 / 0|0 / 0 / 0 / 15|18 / 18 / 18 / 100
|13|3|6%|100° / 100° / 115° / 115°|90|0|20

Hit 2

|Startup|Active|Damage|Angle|Base|Growth
(Pre-1.1.4) |13|12|12%|80°|30|98
(1.1.4) |12|12|12%|80°|31|104
|20|3|12%|90° / 361° / 361°|45 / 50 / 50|85 / 100 / 100

Notes: Frame gaps between Falco's Up Smash = 0 frames, Wolf's Up Smash = 4 frames; total damage = 16% Falco, 18% Wolf; total active frames = 17 frames, 5*12 Falco, 6 frames, 3(4)3 Wolf; total I-frames = 5 frames, 7-11 Falco, 0 frames, 0-0 Wolf.

Quick glance is they really did make it more like Wolf's. Easiest way to see this is the first hit's higher base knockback and lower growth in 1.1.4 allowing it cause a lot of hit stun and just enough knockback to not launch too far. In fact, with 1.1.4, Falco's growth is only 2 away from Wolf's. For base, it makes sense for Wolf's to be higher by 20 because his isn't a "continuous" hitbox. That being said, Falco's pretty much owns Wolf's in every way, but horizontal range, hit angle, total damage, and recovery - Wolf takes 22 frames to recover to Falco's 30. If Wolf had come back... I would expect some tweaking to his Up Smash, especially when you factor in the absurd amount of active frames Falco's has. Easiest way would be to make his legs and maybe upper body invincible.

On to more relevant things, considering the high growth on Falco's Up Smash hit 2 now... Compared with Fox, Kirby, Mii Brawler, Pikachu, and Yoshi's Up Smashes.

Spoiler: Up Smash Flip Kickers and Tail Flipper

|Startup|Active|Damage|Angle|Base|Growth
(Pre-1.1.4) |13|12|12%|80°|30|98
(1.1.4) |12|12|12%|80°|31|104
(Clean)|8|2|16% / 14%|80°|30|94
(Late)|10|2|11%|361°|10|100
(Clean)|14|1|15% / 14%|75°|32 / 30|103 / 96
(Late)|15|2|14% / 12%|88°|20|97
(Later)|17|3|12% / 11%|50°|10|51
(Clean)|8|4|14%|84°|32|93
(Late)|12|3|10%|84°|32|93
(Clean)|10|2|14% / 13%|87°|50|89
(Late)|12|2|11%|85°|30 / 10|90
(Later)|14|4|7%|80°|55|48
(Clean)|11|3|14%|75°|37|95
(Late)|14|3|12%|75°|37|95

Notes: total active frames = 4 Fox, 6 Kirby, 7 Mii Brawler, 8 Pikachu, 6 Yoshi. total I-frames = 9 frames, 1-9, Fox; frames, 6, 14-19 Kirby; 5 frames, 8-12 Mii Gunner, 0 frames; 0-0 Pikachu, 3 frames, 11-13 Yoshi.

What does this show? One, Falco's kill hit has absurd active frames compared to the others. If you consider that as a "late" hit, then it has not only high active frames, but really good knockback. If we assume Pikachu's Up Smash is disjointed because of his / her tail, then that means pretty much all flip kick and tail flip Up Smashes are safe during their "first" hit. Special note is that Fox's I-frames begins before his clean hit and Kirby's extends to all its active frames. In terms of kill power... Eh, that's going to be difficult, but I'm going to assume the gaps are much closer now with Fox and Kirby leading in ~110% to early 120%'s while everyone else will probably be around the +120% area in contrast to before 1.1.4 where Fox and Kirby lead in the ~110% to early 120%'s, Falco was behind in the ~130% to early 140%'s range, and everyone else was between them at ~120%. Basically, they're all closer together now. How they make use of it is the defining natures of them.

Spoiler: Big Question and Even Bigger Statement

So, the question I have for you all, would any other character want Falco's current, 1.1.4 Up Smash? I could see Fox trading the more consistent, single-hit nature of his and slightly lower kill power for much higher active frames. Considering Fox has confirms into Up Smash and this would just be "the same move, but with different properties", it would be pretty insane. I could also see Captain Falcon wanting this, especially for its speed and the fact it's pretty similar to his Up Smash which also can hit people hanging at the ledge. With its anti-air nature, Samus could really make work of it into her combo game since it would be like hers if it hit lower, hit only twice, and was more "reliable" - I blame this on the hit angles on her Up Smash and not necessarily her Up Smash being bad if that makes any sense - while still being an anti-air. Also, Sonic would like this... and I blame this on them nerfing his a bit over than it should since Sonic's kills about 10% later than Falco's if I remember correctly.

This also of course comes with this bold statement: Falco has one of the best Up Smashes in the game. He might not be able to use it to its full potential, but on other characters or the move alone, is it one of the best or better Up Smashes in the game?

Also, for kicks, Sonic and Wolf's Uair and Up Smash compared. Similar animations; different moves.

Spoiler: Sonic Uair & Wolf Up Smash

Hit 1

|Startup|Active|Damage|Angle|Base|Set|Growth
|5|3|3%|100° / 100° / 118° / 118°|0|90 / 90 / 120 / 120|100
|13|3|6%|100° / 100° / 115° / 115°|90|0|20

Hit 2

|Startup|Active|Damage|Angle|Base|Growth
|14|2|6%|91°|66|82
|20|3|12%|90° / 361° / 361°|45 / 50 / 50|85 / 100 / 100

Notes on Sonic's Uair: Frame gaps between Sonic's Uair = 6 frames; total damage = 9%; total active frames = 5 frames, 3(6)2.

Summary: Falco's Up Smash seems to be brought closer to Wolf's and brought closer to other flip kick and tail flip Up Smashes. Consequentially, because of its high active frames and similar safety and kill potential to other flip kick Up Smashes, Falco's Up Smash might be one of the best Up Smashes in the game. Interestingly enough, this would mean Falco has claims to Ftilt, Dtilt, Up Smash, and Bair for among the best moves while having good moves like Utilt, Nair, Uair, Fair, U-throw, D-throw, and Reflector, decent moves like dash attack, Down Smash, and B-throw to back everything up. He's all-around really good when it comes to his moves, but attribute and stat-wise, he's lacking. That's kind of a lot for a character who isn't considered good and funny enough, kind of like how Captain Falcon's only really good moves are jab, Nair, Uair, Bair, and dash grab, but that's all he needs to win fights.

 

[BltzZ]

Quoting this over. Basically, it's an observation of the impact of 1.1.4's changes to Falco's Up Smash.

Summary: Falco's Up Smash seems to be brought closer to Wolf's and brought closer to other flip kick and tail flip Up Smashes. Consequentially, because of its high active frames and similar safety and kill potential to other flip kick Up Smashes, Falco's Up Smash might be one of the best Up Smashes in the game. Interestingly enough, this would mean Falco has claims to Ftilt, Dtilt, Up Smash, and Bair for among the best moves while having good moves like Utilt, Nair, Uair, Fair, U-throw, D-throw, and Reflector, decent moves like dash attack, Down Smash, and B-throw to back everything up. He's all-around really good when it comes to his moves, but attribute and stat-wise, he's lacking. That's kind of a lot for a character who isn't considered good and funny enough, kind of like how Captain Falcon's only really good moves are jab, Nair, Uair, Bair, and dash grab, but that's all he needs to win fights.

Woot Woot ayyye that feels good to know thanks. I really love what their doing its helping but of course his neutral needs some help. It seems like a longs hot at this point but really hoping so a laser buff, or side B Hit box enlargement

 

[nedskii-]

How do you guys use reflector? Besides reflecting of course lol

 

[theparadox]

It's only good for reflecting projectiles, you can kind of use it to keep someone off you if you space it properly. Other than that I don't see much use for it.

 

[NotAsian]

Is it offensive than I think falco should throw eggs like Yoshi? I mean he's a bird and all lol jk

 

[Piipp]

How do you guys use reflector? Besides reflecting of course lol

I usually use it as a "get off me" option whenever I am in a ground combo, or simply for when they aren't expecting it. It's also a decent option to create some space for yourself. And besides, 9/10 times they are not going to be expecting it because of how fast it comes out.

 

[Ffamran]

So, apparently Falco had a movement buff that was missed in at least 1.1.1. Read all about it: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-final-content-1-1-4-patch-discussion.430033/page-25#post-20951720.

His air speed is slightly better, 0.893 to 0.93, from being around the Pits air speed which for them isn't all that bad because multiple jumps to above Palutena (0.91) and Pikachu's (0.9118), but still below Fox's 0.96. What really matters is the change to his air acceleration from 0.07 to 0.09. His old air acceleration at 0.07 was pretty respectable and pretty average, but maybe unacceptable for some as Fox's was 0.08. This meant that not only was Fox faster on the ground, but faster in the air in every way. Now, or at around patch 1.1.1, Falco's air acceleration of 0.09 puts him with Ness and Pikachu as the second-fastest to reach top speed in the air. Even though it's just 0.01 more than Fox, Falco's not just strictly slower than Fox in every way now. You could argue that they're closer or Falco edges out a bit in the air as he reaches top speed faster than Fox. Fox still commands the ground and Falco commands vertically in the air and if Wolf was here, he'd command horizontally in the air.

 

[Gearitz]

I hear falco has some near unwinnable matchups. Could I cover these with a secondary if so who?

 

[Ffamran]

I hear falco has some near unwinnable matchups. Could I cover these with a secondary if so who?

The only "near unwinnable" matchup that comes to mind would be Rosalina & Luma and potentially in the future, Bayonetta and Cloud. It's tempting to always pick or switch to Fox because of their similar physics as Star Fox characters tend to be fast fallers, fast hitters, and fast walkers, but Fox also struggles against Rosalina & Luma.

The MUs I feel like Falco struggles the most against would be, including , , and , and in alphabetical order /, , , , and with special mentions to , , , , and . Generally, Falco struggles with disjoints like other characters who are also hand-to-hand fighters, but Falco neither has a decent projectile to challenge from afar e.g or fast enough mobility e.g to get in and out without easily and to avoid disjoints. So, Falco will struggle against , , , , , , , and , but it's more dependent rather than he struggles really hard because he gets really outranged () or outranged, outsped, and at times, matched in hit speed (, /, and ). Cloud and the Pits really do not give a damn what Falco does and they'll just bulldoze through him. Toon Link also gets another nod as his projectile game and early combo game... early Utilt strings really hurt Falco. For Luigi, it's just his buttons are fast and have low recovery that it's really ridiculous at times while Mewtwo outranges, outspeeds, and hits just as hard as Falco. Bowser and DK can be considered pseudo-sword users because they have I-frames on most of their attacks which with their range, power, and ground speed, really makes Falco's day worse. Then you add their U-throw setups which kill early. Thank patches for that... Mario and Yoshi, you just don't want to press buttons and you don't want them to press buttons all the time. Mario's not as bad as Luigi because his hits aren't as strong, but he still has fast and low recovery buttons which Yoshi adds hard hits like Luigi, but he lacks Mario and Luigi's combo game. For Ryu, just don't make a mistake against him... He's basically Ganondorf if Ganondorf had combos and much faster moves and killed earlier.

So, if you're looking for a secondary, you'd want someone who at least goes slightly negative against them instead of just purely negative. To prioritize, you'd need to know who's in your region and who's the popular characters out of that bunch. Because of the recent DLC hype, Bayonetta and Cloud will be on that popular list... following would be "noob crushers" Luigi, Mario, and Yoshi. After that, perhaps Bowser, DK, Mewtwo, Rosalina & Luma, and Ryu and finally the rarer Shulk and Toon Link players. I'd prioritize Bayonetta, Cloud, Luigi, Mario, and Yoshi over the others, but have Rosalina & Luma and Ryu in there as well considering they're considered one of the other stronger characters. If that's the case, Bayonetta and Cloud are new, so I don't want to say who'd do well against them other than themselves or the obligatory Sheik who just does well against everyone, but we have Luigi, Mario, Rosalina & Luma, Ryu, and Yoshi. Mario being a jack of all trades alongside the Pits would do well against them, especially Dark Pit whose Electroshock Arm has been getting fame as the Luma Killer. Ryu himself does well against all, but perhaps not Rosalina & Luma... not sure on this. The biggest thing is that Ryu has the most similar play style to Falco. Falco, strangely enough, plays more like a Street Fighter character than any other Smash character. It's just his over-tuned Blaster in Melee, overpowered Blaster in Brawl, and do everything Reflector in Melee that shifted the spotlight from the fact Falco plays Street Fighter-esque footsies very well. If the main concern is Falco's poor MU with Rosalina & Luma, Meta Knight's your man... puff... thing... Meta Knight's known for his good MU against Rosalina & Luma alongside his Uair to Shuttle Loop setup. Also, ZSS, but that might be a Nairo thing... I don't remember any other ZSS players doing well against Rosalina & Luma unfortunately. Greninja's another pick, but you'd be dealing with the fact Greninja's MU is really bad against Sheik, a common character, which Falco does okay, but still pretty bad. Fox does well against all, but Luigi and Rosalina & Luma, so there's that. The good thing is their shared physics would make moving with them feel similar, but there are some differences like their jump frames and air acceleration. Also, Fox can play footsies pretty well too, but some of his moves aren't as strong or rewarding enough like Dtilt and while Bair has a good auto-cancel, it's fairly slow, so he can't hop around popping Bairs like Falco does. Speaking of popping Bairs, I'd also chalk one up for Ike as a secondary, but that's just bias.

 

[Gearitz]

The only "near unwinnable" matchup that comes to mind would be Rosalina & Luma and potentially in the future, Bayonetta and Cloud. It's tempting to always pick or switch to Fox because of their similar physics as Star Fox characters tend to be fast fallers, fast hitters, and fast walkers, but Fox also struggles against Rosalina & Luma.

The MUs I feel like Falco struggles the most against would be, including , , and , and in alphabetical order /, , , , and with special mentions to , , , , and . Generally, Falco struggles with disjoints like other characters who are also hand-to-hand fighters, but Falco neither has a decent projectile to challenge from afar e.g or fast enough mobility e.g to get in and out without easily and to avoid disjoints. So, Falco will struggle against , , , , , , , and , but it's more dependent rather than he struggles really hard because he gets really outranged () or outranged, outsped, and at times, matched in hit speed (, /, and ). Cloud and the Pits really do not give a damn what Falco does and they'll just bulldoze through him. Toon Link also gets another nod as his projectile game and early combo game... early Utilt strings really hurt Falco. For Luigi, it's just his buttons are fast and have low recovery that it's really ridiculous at times while Mewtwo outranges, outspeeds, and hits just as hard as Falco. Bowser and DK can be considered pseudo-sword users because they have I-frames on most of their attacks which with their range, power, and ground speed, really makes Falco's day worse. Then you add their U-throw setups which kill early. Thank patches for that... Mario and Yoshi, you just don't want to press buttons and you don't want them to press buttons all the time. Mario's not as bad as Luigi because his hits aren't as strong, but he still has fast and low recovery buttons which Yoshi adds hard hits like Luigi, but he lacks Mario and Luigi's combo game. For Ryu, just don't make a mistake against him... He's basically Ganondorf if Ganondorf had combos and much faster moves and killed earlier.

So, if you're looking for a secondary, you'd want someone who at least goes slightly negative against them instead of just purely negative. To prioritize, you'd need to know who's in your region and who's the popular characters out of that bunch. Because of the recent DLC hype, Bayonetta and Cloud will be on that popular list... following would be "noob crushers" Luigi, Mario, and Yoshi. After that, perhaps Bowser, DK, Mewtwo, Rosalina & Luma, and Ryu and finally the rarer Shulk and Toon Link players. I'd prioritize Bayonetta, Cloud, Luigi, Mario, and Yoshi over the others, but have Rosalina & Luma and Ryu in there as well considering they're considered one of the other stronger characters. If that's the case, Bayonetta and Cloud are new, so I don't want to say who'd do well against them other than themselves or the obligatory Sheik who just does well against everyone, but we have Luigi, Mario, Rosalina & Luma, Ryu, and Yoshi. Mario being a jack of all trades alongside the Pits would do well against them, especially Dark Pit whose Electroshock Arm has been getting fame as the Luma Killer. Ryu himself does well against all, but perhaps not Rosalina & Luma... not sure on this. The biggest thing is that Ryu has the most similar play style to Falco. Falco, strangely enough, plays more like a Street Fighter character than any other Smash character. It's just his over-tuned Blaster in Melee, overpowered Blaster in Brawl, and do everything Reflector in Melee that shifted the spotlight from the fact Falco plays Street Fighter-esque footsies very well. If the main concern is Falco's poor MU with Rosalina & Luma, Meta Knight's your man... puff... thing... Meta Knight's known for his good MU against Rosalina & Luma alongside his Uair to Shuttle Loop setup. Also, ZSS, but that might be a Nairo thing... I don't remember any other ZSS players doing well against Rosalina & Luma unfortunately. Greninja's another pick, but you'd be dealing with the fact Greninja's MU is really bad against Sheik, a common character, which Falco does okay, but still pretty bad. Fox does well against all, but Luigi and Rosalina & Luma, so there's that. The good thing is their shared physics would make moving with them feel similar, but there are some differences like their jump frames and air acceleration. Also, Fox can play footsies pretty well too, but some of his moves aren't as strong or rewarding enough like Dtilt and while Bair has a good auto-cancel, it's fairly slow, so he can't hop around popping Bairs like Falco does. Speaking of popping Bairs, I'd also chalk one up for Ike as a secondary, but that's just bias.

I mainly struggle against villager just because of how safe his stuff is and how easy he gimps but also rosa luma

 

[Ffamran]

I mainly struggle against villager just because of how safe his stuff is and how easy he gimps but also rosa luma

Villager was argued to be one of Falco's best MUs: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-26-villager-flying-home.400542/.

 

[-StarShade-]

So how about that sudden patch? Did receive any needed changes?

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Is Jab 2 ==> Grab a true combo if falco has a lot of rage? I've done this a few times in my matches and it seems almost impossible to escape.

 

[ligersandtigons]

Haven't been following the Falco meta for a while now (was focusing on Cloud and then Corrin), but was just wondering how has side b as an edgeguard tool been developing so far? Just from my experience with it, I feel like it's a really powerful tool off stage that's being underutilized.

also, watching how Abadango's Mewtwo utilize nair made me wonder if Falco can get similar mileage out if his?

 

[Sinji]

Anyone knows the landing lag frame on falco's side b?

 

[BltzZ]

A bird can only dream....

https://youtu.be/0Sve8gXoh3Q

 

[zzmorg82]

A bird can only dream....

https://youtu.be/0Sve8gXoh3Q

We Melee now. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Synchronize]

Been experimenting more with Falco and I find offstage U-Air into B-Air into a D-Air at low percents can get an early kill given they DI towards you. Havent really looked through the thread much but how reliably can the U-Air -> B-Air combo be pulled off?

 

[Snipnigth]

So i was reading a post about SHAD on falco and it got me thinking, this tech is not used that much but it maybe very useful thing to play mindgames on your opponent or maybe even use SHAD in most situations insted of a roll, i feel this is much safer and can control your landing position ,plus it lets you throw any move as soon as you land, I also feel its a good and safe way to get behind you opponent, this is all in my head and i have had little time to experiment in real fights but what do you guys think?

 

[Synchronize]

So i was reading a post about SHAD on falco and it got me thinking, this tech is not used that much but it maybe very useful thing to play mindgames on your opponent or maybe even use SHAD in most situations insted of a roll, i feel this is much safer and can control your landing position ,plus it lets you throw any move as soon as you land, I also feel its a good and safe way to get behind you opponent, this is all in my head and i have had little time to experiment in real fights but what do you guys think?

I actually barely land onstage with Falco (when I'm knocked off) so I'm not sure how effective this can be however, when I'm knocked up into the air, rather than trying for a safe landing, I always go for a Canceled D-Air and If i can get a hit off, follow up. As for mind games, I always just dash dance, Perfect Pivot, and foxtrot around to bait attacks since I can laglessly follow up with anything I want.

 

[CreatureComforts]

Hi! I really hope this board isn't dead, because I have a couple questions.

1. Which of Falco's attacks would be the best to use for jab locking? I was thinking neutral b, but I'm not sure.

2. Do you have any tips for how to play the Ness MU?

 

[Lethrokai]

Hi! I really hope this board isn't dead, because I have a couple questions.

1. Which of Falco's attacks would be the best to use for jab locking? I was thinking neutral b, but I'm not sure.

2. Do you have any tips for how to play the Ness MU?

Know this is a bit of a late followup but here goes:

1. Depends on the situation in which you're jab locking. If the opponent is too far away to catch, use laser so that you can at least manage a safe approach. If they fall right in front of you, use a low angled ftilt as it has far less lag than laser and doesn't require you to catch the bounce. If they fall on a platform above, you can use either laser or the first hit of a fast fall nair. (I'm not certain on this though as I can't remember which aerial it was and can't check atm)

2. Personally I don't like playing the Ness matchups as Falco as it feels like you just flat out lose in neutral, and Ness has lots of quick moves to get out of your aerial combos. If you're gonna win in one area it will be offstage.

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[Ffamran]

I have a feeling that this was something everyone knew...

やり方は崖または台から降りる瞬間に空後入力、スマッシュ入力だとできません #スマブラ https://t.co/TnAzxLy0BI

— Pikazono (@pikazono_Falco) August 12, 2016

Might be useful; might not be useful. It's a feint if anything which considering that other characters can drop down with an aerial and most players are aware of that, you might be able to bait a high recovery.

 

[Shaya]

It's more like the cause of 100% of SDs then a useful feint

 

[Ffamran]

It's more like the cause of 100% of SDs then a useful feint

But this is calculated! You jump before you drop off the ledge. It'll totally work... until you screw up and die.

 

[PEACE7]

At 2:19 what options did the falco have? Would firebird been a safer option or was it already too late for anything? just curious it seems like a tough spot to be at.

 

[Ralugi]

I just made the switch in characters. What sort stuff would you recommend I do to play differently?
I have a lot of trouble against Sheik, Marth, and Fox.

 

[Ffamran]

I just made the switch in characters. What sort stuff would you recommend I do to play differently?
I have a lot of trouble against Sheik, Marth, and Fox.

There is a Q&A thread which I merged your thread with. First, you should be specific on what you mean by playing differently.

For matchups, there are MU threads on the Falco boards, but they're pretty much inactive. The Smash 4 Falco directory and main MU post thread have links to them. Don't know about on the Fox, Marth, and Sheik boards which you could ask in as well. For real-time discussions, you might want to consider joining the Smash 4 Falco Discord. More info there: https://smashboards.com/threads/falco-discord-server.419282/, and here: http://smashcords.com/index.php?page=s4c.

If anything, I would recommend checking out some of the players listed in this thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/great-fox-hangar-ace-pilot-list.429118/. Particularly, AC, Anragon, Cyro, and any of the Japanese Falco players. Just see how they play.

 

[PEACE7]

Top 5 falcos to learn from?

 

[Shaya]

It's been a long while, but I finally got back to playing Falco under the pretense of 'games developed for a while, I've improved in smash4 specifically (movement/etc), let's see what I can do'.
For whatever reason I felt that falco's boost pivot grab and his down air were similar to Clouds - auto canceling down air is actually really potent (perfect AC is -5 on block), sour spot is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry strong for follow ups.

Unfortunately it struggles to find much use against grounded opponent, learning the timing so you get a perfect AC from a full hop will -just- hit the Mario height characters; an alternative which is easier to time is immediate double jump into FF dair which ACs easier. But don't let it's lack of ground vs air use perturb you - falco's jump and fall specs and how one can vary it (and imo, pretty good hitbox) allows one to use it dominantly against most aerial opponents and just like Fox/Cloud get away with just doing it and reactively switch up if they stay grounded or are out of position. If you bait an action from below someone and then jump dair above them, you're using a mostly safe frame trap with grand benefits (I've gotten sour dair AC into dair, but mostly bair/nair or heuboi invincible leg up smash getting in the way of your landing).

Reverse nair suddenly seemed to be godlike (there's comfort in knowing it's always going to send in one direction) and it's reliable frame canceling has bolstered my view of the move significantly too. I don't use forward air much - in fact at the least nair is superior at early % due to higher knockback/better angle (mid air nair into double jump aerial lines up).

Generally figuring out exactly what moves you can bair/nair and Up smash OoS to punish (or whether you need to wait a little bit for them to start standing up while still in their lag so the rising aerial hits them - pretty important and apparent for landing aerials), yada yada has shown success too.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Been playing Falco a fair bit more recently. Compared to when I played him earlier, I think I'm grasping his neutral much better. Using things like Foxtrots, Perfect pivots, and that one tech that grants you a quick mobility burst after autocanceling bair to extend the reach of d-tilt (I believe it was called pivot sliding?) have really been useful for me for both approaching and retreating and have allowed me to get way more grabs and D-Attacks / D-Tilts than previously. These techs are super useful in advantage too and allow Falco to better cover landings as well as giving him some combos he didn't have previously (Down-Throw to PP Utilt for example). Disadvantage is also something I think I'm getting a grasp of onstage (Nair and Jab are way better tools for breaking combos than I initially thought). Recovering is still a huge pain though since Fire Bird is a horrible, horrible move for recovering and phantasm is too vulnerable. I honestly rarely go off stage now against most characters to edgeguard them just because the risk of dying is just too great, which is a shame as Falco has some of the best aerials for edge guarding.

 

[zzmorg82]

Top 5 falcos to learn from?

I know this is a little late, but if you're still wondering on some players you can watch then there's:

-MacDareth
-Osiris197
-AC
-Cyro
-Daybreak

 

[Ralugi]

I don't know where to put videos to critque. I just want some feedback on how I'm playing.
I'm in a slump, and I feel like I lost the ability to play smash for a while. I'm trying to find out what I'm doing wrong. These are some of my better matches with a friend of mine who plays at around my level.

 

[ohmeohmy]

Hey guys I'm new on the boards but I have been maining falco and playing smash 4 (sporadically) pretty much since the wii u version.
Recently I've been trying to become more than a random for glory scrub and enter into the competitive scene.

Anyways after watching Ralugi's matches I noticed the frequent use of down air to land...got me wondering, what do u guys to tend to use when landing onstage as falco?

 

[Ralugi]

Hey guys I'm new on the boards but I have been maining falco and playing smash 4 (sporadically) pretty much since the wii u version.
Recently I've been trying to become more than a random for glory scrub and enter into the competitive scene.

Anyways after watching Ralugi's matches I noticed the frequent use of down air to land...got me wondering, what do u guys to tend to use when landing onstage as falco?

Land on stage normally, that's a bad habit I need to get rid of.

 

[EpOc-Samydoo]

Hey guys I know Im not a falco main but I really love playig him and im not sure exactly how to play him
I know how to play him just not his neutral i should say, I am trying to laser alot in neutral but it seems that they are very laggy so im not sure if thats a great idea. I have also tried to space with bair and fair (mostly bair) but I get outspaced by disjoints like long swords: Marth, Lucina, Cloud ect
Also characters like pikachu and kirby that will just camp or crouch are very annoying because I can not really get in they're face
When I try to laser they just seem to roll and get a grab since the lasers are so laggy
Do i just wait or approach?