Falco Is Horrid

[KetchupKaffei]

There. I said it. After maining him and loving this character for years, I can't help but point out his stupid, horrible design choices the developers gave him.
All his flaws over flow his pros. I only made this to get off my chest, because I can not believe they thought doing this to him and thinking it was acceptable.

-His laser lag is way too slow and atrocious, canceling out many options leading into combos and safety, leaving him only with one option mainly.

-His horizontal speed is abysmal which also lessens the options of more combo potential.
I understand that he has great high vertical depth and speed, but if it has to make his horizontal speed less than even quarter of it's original state, then I rather not have the high jumps.
His run speed is very predictable no matter how you dash with it, and having heavier characters run faster than or as fast as him is truly unacceptable in my book.

-His Up smash does not connect most of the time unless the opponent is above him, but even then they can sometimes escape.
They patched this, but it's honestly still garbage. It's actually almost as bad as Duck Hunt's smash attacks and connecting.

-Lag. Lag Everywhere.
Honestly, I'm at the point of believing that the devs think ways of making a character is giving them lots of lag, a massive ridiculous gimmik, or super armor.
Now I understand lag, but for goodness sake, Falco has lag everywhere except in bair, fsmash,dsmash,up air. Falco is a strong character, but he is not that strong to receive that much lag in my opinion. Lag like this stops many potential options for Falco like I mentioned earlier and later on making him unenjoyable at moments.

-His dair. It is literally a sin to what they did to his dair. What the hell happened? This is one of the worst meteors in the game. It has way too much start and ending lag, the hitbox is out right laughable, and it's already a pain connecting with the move when he is lacking in the horizontal department. I'm not saying it should not be immediate(of course becuase of smash 4 being more leaent to them), but at least Mario or Kirby alike. He's already slow, and his hitbox requires a more precised sweetspot. A damn. Stubborn. Sweetspot. Why.
It's usually never a good option at all using this while edge guarding, unless you plan on staying above the stage and meteoring. Besides that, it's a death wish leaving you to be either gimmked or dead by your own lag from it when going deep.
"It will be too easy for him if he managed to meteor like that". You mean the stuff that he already has against him to doing his dair? First his very own flaws, then the game's mechanics itself and other characters. The ledge grip distance is insane this game and half or more l characters have either a super armor
Or a invincible recovery move.
I think that's overkill.

I purely made this because I want other opinions on this matter and to let out alot of a steam with one of my enjoyable characters.

I honestly think a way to make Faclo better is to fix his dair lag, lazer lag, and fix his horizontal aleast a tad, but more.
Don't get me wrong with Falco, he's enjoyable but sometimes he could feel just as annoying to play as.

 

[Snipnigth]

We all feel your pain, i myself belive he is a really bad character but i still main him, i have fun using him and finding ways of using his movesets, his combo game is superb tho, if he had more reliable kill confirm combos like fox, he would do so much better, but right now his focus is more defensive than foxes.

 

[Tino]

Despite all of his many flaws he has compared to Fox, I still play as Falco only because I will remain loyal to him no matter what.

And besides, I prefer Falco over Fox any day. I mean I like Fox but fast speed characters like him doesn't fit me well.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Join the club my dude.

I don't hate that they changed his moveset through the years going from Melee, but if you're going to make him different from Fox at least make it to where he isn't challenged at nearly everything he does. Brawl was a step in the right direction to not make him not so overbearing, then they go and ruin it with giving him barely any laser game and no nuetral game.

In Star Fox he is Fox' subordinate, but he's still the ex-space pirate /ace pilot. Give the man the respect he deserves!

 

[Dcas]

The worst part about this is, falco could be easily fixed and increasing his tier placement a lot by just some minor fixes.

Get his running speed higher, auto cancel lasers and fixing his abysmal dair. With only those 3 , even one of those would fix a lot of his approaching problems, sadly i dont believe he´ll ever get fixed

 

[anas abou]

I don't hate that they changed his moveset through the years going from Melee, but if you're going to make him different from Fox at least make it to where he isn't challenged at nearly everything he does. Brawl was a step in the right direction to not make him not so overbearing, then they go and ruin it with giving him barely any laser game and no nuetral game.

i hated falco in brawl, laser camp + broken chaingrab, glad those were nerfed but they should've gave him some sort of compensation, falco's frame data is actually pretty good, i can't see where is the awful lag, he mostly just needs speed.

 

[KetchupKaffei]

i can't see where is the awful lag

It's everywhere.

 

[Snipnigth]

, i can't see where is the awful lag, he mostly just needs speed.

Yeah, his moves come out fast, exept dair, but he has 15 frames of landing lag on bair, uair and nair, and like 26-23 frames of landing lag on dair and fair, this makes him bad for aproaching since the opponent will be able to punish everything if he shields, his jab animation is has a lot of ending lagg too making it easier on your opponent to read your mixups, if your trying to go for a jab grab, his smashes all lagg cant bee spamed like marios upsmash or g&w upsmash, his laser its the most annoying laggs so much for a total of 3%.

 

[anas abou]

Yeah, his moves come out fast, exept dair, but he has 15 frames of landing lag on bair, uair and nair, and like 26-23 frames of landing lag on dair and fair, this makes him bad for aproaching since the opponent will be able to punish everything if he shields, his jab animation is has a lot of ending lagg too making it easier on your opponent to read your mixups, if your trying to go for a jab grab, his smashes all lagg cant bee spamed like marios upsmash or g&w upsmash, his laser its the most annoying laggs so much for a total of 3%.

fox also has 15 frames of landing lag on b-air 22 on u-air and 25 on d-air, falcos fair is not all that punisheable due to the landing hitbox, most characters can't spam smash attacks you shouldn't be able to do that + a frame 7 upsmash with a 50 FAF is actually really good and better than fox in terms of frame data, again all falco needs is movement speed not lag reduction.

 

[Snipnigth]

fox also has 15 frames of landing lag on b-air 22 on u-air and 25 on d-air, falcos fair is not all the punisheable due to the landing hitbox, most characters can't spam smash attacks you shouldn't be able to do that + a frame 7 upsmash with a 50 FAF is actually really good and better than fox in terms of frame data, again all falco needs is movement speed not lag reduction.

Foxes nair its 11 frames landing lagg, and it true combos into upsmash for a kill. I feel falco also need his nair landing lagg reduced to 10 or 11, even tho itll probably wont combo like fox it will still work as safe pressure on shield. And im not saying falco should be able to spam his smashes, im just saying it to make the point that falco is slow to recover from his animations, he is like a slow truck thats light and on top of that punishable. Adding on what you said on Fair, what makes this move a bit safer aside from the landing hitbox is that he prones on the floor, making grabs and some atacks wiff.

 

[KetchupKaffei]

fox also has 15 frames of landing lag on b-air 22 on u-air and 25 on d-air, falcos fair is not all the punisheable due to the landing hitbox, most characters can't spam smash attacks you shouldn't be able to do that + a frame 7 upsmash with a 50 FAF is actually really good and better than fox in terms of frame data, again all falco needs is movement speed not lag reduction.

I disagree, He needs way more than that. The amount of lag for every move is really overbearing.

 

[Snipnigth]

I disagree, He needs way more than that. The amount of lag for every move is really overbearing.

I dont feel its overbearing, if he had just 1 move that autocancels on landing (nair) he whould be much better, his lasers should also lagg less making them useful to apply safe pressure from a distance and force your opponent to aproach, with these changes i dont think he even needs a running speed buff, altho it would be welcomed.

 

[Zethoro]

At least Falco's been good in every game before this. Imagine how the Ganondorfs and Zeldas feel.

 

[Dcas]

He´s got some solid frame data, idk where are you getting this "laggy moves from" , at least on his normals and tilts. Really, the only hindrance of falco is his horrid mobility, which is tied with a heavy weight but he lacks the kill power and the weight of those.

 

[anas abou]

He´s got some solid frame data, idk where are you getting this "laggy moves from" , at least on his normals and tilts. Really, the only hindrance of falco is his horrid mobility, which is tied with a heavy weight but he lacks the kill power and the weight of those.

yeah but heavies have huge hitboxes that make them easy to shield poke, hit, and combo.

 

[Snipnigth]

yeah but heavies have huge hitboxes that make them easy to shield poke, hit, and combo.

True but Falco is not Kirby either, he may not be as big of a target as bowser or charizard, but he gets comboed hard because he is a fastfaller like fox and C. Falcon....his weaknesses have no safety net, for example charizard, his big and he gets comboed hard as well, but he can take a beating he is heavy and hits like a truck not to mention he is fast on the grown so he is able to get those punishes, plus has a decent kill grab and he even has some good combos to rack up early %....but Falco....he just looks cool..... his pros dont do much to cover his weak points, he is slow so he has a hard time getting those punishes, and been light plus combo-able its not a good combination, the only thing good he has going is that he can also combo, but lacks the kill confirms combos and safety, any aerial you do to confirm a kill that your opponents shield puts you at risk of a punish, he is laggy, and has no safe form of pressuring your opponent or approaching unless you space your moves perfectly.

 

[anas abou]

True but Falco is not Kirby either, he may not be as big of a target as bowser or charizard, but he gets comboed hard because he is a fastfaller like fox and C. Falcon....his weaknesses have no safety net, for example charizard, his big and he gets comboed hard as well, but he can take a beating he is heavy and hits like a truck not to mention he is fast on the grown so he is able to get those punishes, plus has a decent kill grab and he even has some good combos to rack up early %....but Falco....he just looks cool..... his pros dont do much to cover his weak points, he is slow so he has a hard time getting those punishes, and been light plus combo-able its not a good combination, the only thing good he has going is that he can also combo, but lacks the kill confirms combos and safety, any aerial you do do confirm a kill that your opponents shield puts you at risk of a punish, he is laggy, and has no safe form of pressuring your opponent or approaching unless you space your moves perfectly.

sheik is also light and easy to combo due to being a fastfaller, but she has speed to compensate.

 

[Snipnigth]

sheik is also light and easy to combo due to being a fastfaller, but she has speed to compensate.

Yup, and excellent landing lagg frames on fair, nair and bair, unpunishable on shield, it’s not just her speed is the fact that she can go in with an aerial and its virtually laggless on landing totally safe on shield, she has her BF witch comes out instantly with a big *** hitbox and its also decently safe on shield, only a fast character could punish, comparing that to Falco side b that has starting lagg it even has 1 more frame of startup than foxes i really don’t get why, but anyways, if Falco had 10~12 landing lagg on nair and bair like sheik he wouldn’t be having such a hard time, even with his slow running speed, and if he had lower lagg on blaster then we could play around that problem, he has the tools but the tools just plain suck, they need a tweak, right now the blaster is a broken solution for his low movement speed, i wish for a patch that fixes this, so he could actually zone without risking so much.

 

[hoppyKnitz]

If his flaws won't get fixed just cope with them, if his down air is bad, learn how to use it situationally as it's still a viable meteor smash. Us jiggly mains don't even get a meteor smash lol. Falco is viable and just cuz he isn't he best character he is legitimately powerful, u just need to use him right.

 

[Snipnigth]

If his flaws won't get fixed just cope with them, if his down air is bad, learn how to use it situationally as it's still a viable meteor smash. Us jiggly mains don't even get a meteor smash lol. Falco is viable and just cuz he isn't he best character he is legitimately powerful, u just need to use him right.

Ive really tried with Falco, and i really believe he is not viable in high lvl play, but i dont belive he can win a tournament right now, theres also no proof on the internet that sustain that he could win a tournament, the best Falcos i have seen is Cyro and he dosent assist in to many tournaments and mostly plays online, Keitaro is next and i think he himself admits that Falco isint a good character pick, and the best tournaments results i have seen are from anragon (http://smashboards.com/threads/falcos-tournament-representation.374263/page-5) but i dont think theres too many high lvl players in his region, and i feel the same way about many characters, like jiggly and suited samus, and zelda, theres a couple more that could use a bit of a buff on patches but that dream is kinda dead. Megaman is viable, Villager is viable, pit, charizard, toon link....but not falco, he could counter projectile based characters like megaman, villager, toon link but thats about it, going against a zss, or MK with Falco is a dead wish. But this is just me, i mean if someone want to believe he is viable then ill love to see them prove me wrong.

P.S:I think jiggly could use more ways to combo into rest, i think that would made her pretty good, I wanna say she is viable because she has the second fastest aire movement speed and can gimp pretty well but i dont have much info on her.

 

[Cyro]

The best Falcos i have seen is Cyro and he dosent assist in to many tournaments and mostly plays online

I have tournament wins over ImHip and WiiGi who were both PR'd in SoCal at one point. (ImHip still is)
Bracket: http://challonge.com/zgsmash4singles31

In the past 2GGT's, I have placed:
FOW Saga - 33rd/356
Mexico Saga - 49th/413
KTAR Saga - 49th/414

(Top 48 advance out of pools)

I have won money matches over Sol, Charliedaking (Currently PR'd), and Karna's Sheik with the assist of Cloud.
I have gone last hit, last game with Mr. E, Ryo, DKwill, VoiD, and plenty of other big names in the past through money matches or bracket.

I don't consider myself a top level player yet, so I definitely think Falco has WAY more potential than what I'm putting up. This isn't even the beginning of the results other players have gotten with Falco. Take AC for example, who not many people know about. He's taken sets off of multiple well-known players like TearBear, Falln, Aarvark, and VoiD, with Falco.

It's time to stop blaming the character for your poor results and actually improve. A secondary IS necessary, though. No character in this game is solo-main viable.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

If his flaws won't get fixed just cope with them, if his down air is bad, learn how to use it situationally as it's still a viable meteor smash. Us jiggly mains don't even get a meteor smash lol. Falco is viable and just cuz he isn't he best character he is legitimately powerful, u just need to use him right.

That's easier said than done.
Falco is pretty cut-and-dry when it comes to what he wants, but the tools he has aren't exactly what he needs to get the job done efficiently. In my personal opinion, Falco can take monthlies or other similar medium size tournies, but he will never take any type of major. To win a med-size would still be a hard run when you look at the other characters that can counter him so easily. Megaman, ZSS, ROB, Link or any other projectile based character destroys him with barely any effort because he's limited in what he can do in many situations.

 

[Cyro]

Megaman, ZSS, ROB, Link or any other projectile based character destroys him with barely any effort because he's limited in what he can do in many situations.

This couldn't be any more wrong. It seems obvious that you just lack the knowledge of what he's capable of. Falco has a frame 1 reflector with a huge hitbox in front of him and he has amazing options out of his walk. It's not difficult to deal with zoners. I also speak from a ton of experience against the better players for these characters so if you wish to disagree feel free to, but I hope your reasoning isn't flawed.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

This couldn't be any more wrong. It seems obvious that you just lack the knowledge of what he's capable of. Falco has a frame 1 reflector with a huge hitbox in front of him and he has amazing options out of his walk. It's not difficult to deal with zoners. I also speak from a ton of experience against the better players for these characters so if you wish to disagree feel free to, but I hope your reasoning isn't flawed.

I don't play much Smash 4 anymore so my meta may be a bit outdated, but I feel he has a problem with projectile based characters. Reflector isn't the end all solution for everything, but I see what you're saying. Honestly I were hoping you would speak on the part where I said that he can't win a major.

 

[Cyro]

I don't play much Smash 4 anymore so my meta may be a bit outdated, but I feel he has a problem with projectile based characters. Reflector isn't the end all solution for everything, but I see what you're saying. Honestly I were hoping you would speak on the part where I said that he can't win a major.

Winning a major is unrealistic for the majority of the cast. Top 20 players in the world would have to pick him up and devote time into him in order for it to even be a possibility. Hypothetically speaking, I do think he has the potential to get such results. He's very difficult to use at top level play, but that doesn't make him incapable.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

It's time to stop blaming the character for your poor results and actually improve.

^ This

You can still have success with Falco in mid to high level play where anyone is viable. If Falco has laggy moves just don't throw them out randomly and improve your neutral. Lag on "everything" could be said about any character that gets punished for hitting shield. Everything else is used during a combo or a string or an edge guard. If you use a move properly its endlag doesn't really matter. You're not going to n-air/up-air a shield get punished then complain about its endlag. That's just using the move incorrectly.

Falco has an amazingly good combo game and has to work in neutral or edge guard to find the kill. So many top/high tier characters have good combo games but don't have a kill confirm or they don't commonly rely on one to kill with.

these are just a few

Yeah you can change whoever you want to main but you'll have the same problems with Falco that you do with everyone else because its the player that needs to be improved more than the character that needs to be improved. Fundamentals are required for success more than anything.

 

[Snipnigth]

Look i agree the player means a lot in the results, but Falco has limited options i belive he work as secondary, but i disagree with you on

No character in this game is solo-main viable.

Some characters are just really dam good.

Falco has a frame 1 reflector

Mmmm i dont think its frame 1 cauz it dosent beat a frame 2 jab, but yes he has the edge vs projectile base characters.

P.S: Im a big fan Cyro, hope i can see more of your creativity on tournys and vs more ppl, love dashin too.

 

[Ffamran]

Mmmm i dont think its frame 1 cauz it dosent beat a frame 2 jab, but yes he has the edge vs projectile base characters.

The reflect is frame 1; the hit is frame 5. It's like how Zelda's Nayru's Love hits later, frame 13, than it reflects, frame 5, but Zelda's has invincibility starting on frame 5. For Falco, while it reflects on frame 1, because it starts so close to him and that it hits and reflects during the kick, there's always the problem where Falco's hurtbox could get clipped by whatever. Part of me wishes Falco had (leg) invincibility when he kicks which is probably something like 5-7, but that might be too good... Then again Lucas and Ness's absorb hitboxes are large. Rosalina's is even larger and (Dr.) Mario's Sheet / Cape, Lucas and Ness's Side Smash reflect, Palutena's Reflect Barrier which is also apparently frame 8 unblockable, and the Pits' Guardian Orbitars are all completely disjointed since they reflect with something away from their bodies instead of starting off somewhere on their body like Falco -- it's disjointed, but there's a moment of vulnerability is what I'm trying to say -- or Fox who reflects pretty much on him.

 

[Snipnigth]

The reflect is frame 1; the hit is frame 5..

Ohh i get it, I was thinking about the hit, sorry sorry, it is a frame 1 reflector.

 

[Dcas]

I have tournament wins over ImHip and WiiGi who were both PR'd in SoCal at one point. (ImHip still is)
Bracket: http://challonge.com/zgsmash4singles31

In the past 2GGT's, I have placed:
FOW Saga - 33rd/356
Mexico Saga - 49th/413
KTAR Saga - 49th/414

(Top 48 advance out of pools)

I have won money matches over Sol, Charliedaking (Currently PR'd), and Karna's Sheik with the assist of Cloud.
I have gone last hit, last game with Mr. E, Ryo, DKwill, VoiD, and plenty of other big names in the past through money matches or bracket.

I don't consider myself a top level player yet, so I definitely think Falco has WAY more potential than what I'm putting up. This isn't even the beginning of the results other players have gotten with Falco. Take AC for example, who not many people know about. He's taken sets off of multiple well-known players like TearBear, Falln, Aarvark, and VoiD, with Falco.

It's time to stop blaming the character for your poor results and actually improve. A secondary IS necessary, though. No character in this game is solo-main viable.

Sorry Buddy, after seeing several cases. Its clear falco is not a horrid character, but he wont never ever reach a top 8. Sure you can be the best falco and thats ok, you mightve taken a set or maybe 2 out of top competitors, but the character will just get you to a certain place, several cases as ryo, tweek and some others that stick to some lower tiers characters and never get some major /constant results.

 

[Cyro]

Sorry Buddy, after seeing several cases. Its clear falco is not a horrid character, but he wont never ever reach a top 8. Sure you can be the best falco and thats ok, you mightve taken a set or maybe 2 out of top competitors, but the character will just get you to a certain place, several cases as ryo, tweek and some others that stick to some lower tiers characters and never get some major /constant results.

You totally missed the point.

 

[DavemanCozy]

It's time to stop blaming the character for your poor results and actually improve. A secondary IS necessary, though. No character in this game is solo-main viable.

I feel this is the part people missed.

BTW why do you think there are no characters who are solo-main viable? What about the Sheiks and Diddys who have been winning money solo-ing them even after nerfs?

 

[Pezimistik]

There. I said it. After maining him and loving this character for years, I can't help but point out his stupid, horrible design choices the developers gave him.
All his flaws over flow his pros. I only made this to get off my chest, because I can not believe they thought doing this to him and thinking it was acceptable.

-His laser lag is way too slow and atrocious, canceling out many options leading into combos and safety, leaving him only with one option mainly.

-His horizontal speed is abysmal which also lessens the options of more combo potential.
I understand that he has great high vertical depth and speed, but if it has to make his horizontal speed less than even quarter of it's original state, then I rather not have the high jumps.
His run speed is very predictable no matter how you dash with it, and having heavier characters run faster than or as fast as him is truly unacceptable in my book.

-His Up smash does not connect most of the time unless the opponent is above him, but even then they can sometimes escape.
They patched this, but it's honestly still garbage. It's actually almost as bad as Duck Hunt's smash attacks and connecting.

-Lag. Lag Everywhere.
Honestly, I'm at the point of believing that the devs think ways of making a character is giving them lots of lag, a massive ridiculous gimmik, or super armor.
Now I understand lag, but for goodness sake, Falco has lag everywhere except in bair, fsmash,dsmash,up air. Falco is a strong character, but he is not that strong to receive that much lag in my opinion. Lag like this stops many potential options for Falco like I mentioned earlier and later on making him unenjoyable at moments.

-His dair. It is literally a sin to what they did to his dair. What the hell happened? This is one of the worst meteors in the game. It has way too much start and ending lag, the hitbox is out right laughable, and it's already a pain connecting with the move when he is lacking in the horizontal department. I'm not saying it should not be immediate(of course becuase of smash 4 being more leaent to them), but at least Mario or Kirby alike. He's already slow, and his hitbox requires a more precised sweetspot. A damn. Stubborn. Sweetspot. Why.
It's usually never a good option at all using this while edge guarding, unless you plan on staying above the stage and meteoring. Besides that, it's a death wish leaving you to be either gimmked or dead by your own lag from it when going deep.
"It will be too easy for him if he managed to meteor like that". You mean the stuff that he already has against him to doing his dair? First his very own flaws, then the game's mechanics itself and other characters. The ledge grip distance is insane this game and half or more l characters have either a super armor
Or a invincible recovery move.
I think that's overkill.

I purely made this because I want other opinions on this matter and to let out alot of a steam with one of my enjoyable characters.

I honestly think a way to make Faclo better is to fix his dair lag, lazer lag, and fix his horizontal aleast a tad, but more.
Don't get me wrong with Falco, he's enjoyable but sometimes he could feel just as annoying to play as.

We all feel your pain, i myself belive he is a really bad character but i still main him, i have fun using him and finding ways of using his movesets, his combo game is superb tho, if he had more reliable kill confirm combos like fox, he would do so much better, but right now his focus is more defensive than foxes.

Falco does have a kill confirm move. He is an extremely hard character to master. Dair can be very good, only if you can master the dair cancel, which is hard to do consistently. It also goes straight into dsmash. Also, there is a way to use side b where it ends completely lagless....and im not talking about doing it with just a short hop and side b, falco has hidden secrets that are hard to get used to. He does have a lot of MU issues; mario basically destroys falcos recovery and falco is too slow to keep up. However, I have seen decent success against clouds (even tho they say cloud is a bad MU) Falco has amazing gimping abilities if you play smart and unpredictable. Also, if you are able to short hop upair cancel then you can hit opponent or make them air dodge and hit again, or if they land then you can dtilt back into an uair or use bair. Dthrow is falcos best combo starter you can rack up to a 12 combo hit and do 27 percent. This stuff is NOT easy to do compared to other characters. He has much potential, and if someone was able to master him fully, he can be a threat in the meta game. Dair spike is crazy actually, it also sets you up for bair when opponent is trying to ledge grab from recovering.

 

[Snipnigth]

Falco does have a kill confirm move. He is an extremely hard character to master. Dair can be very good, only if you can master the dair cancel, which is hard to do consistently. It also goes straight into dsmash. Also, there is a way to use side b where it ends completely lagless....and im not talking about doing it with just a short hop and side b, falco has hidden secrets that are hard to get used to. He does have a lot of MU issues; mario basically destroys falcos recovery and falco is too slow to keep up. However, I have seen decent success against clouds (even tho they say cloud is a bad MU) Falco has amazing gimping abilities if you play smart and unpredictable. Also, if you are able to short hop upair cancel then you can hit opponent or make them air dodge and hit again, or if they land then you can dtilt back into an uair or use bair. Dthrow is falcos best combo starter you can rack up to a 12 combo hit and do 27 percent. This stuff is NOT easy to do compared to other characters. He has much potential, and if someone was able to master him fully, he can be a threat in the meta game. Dair spike is crazy actually, it also sets you up for bair when opponent is trying to ledge grab from recovering.

I know all this, dair canceling its kinda useless, the timming its strict as hell, and even if it wasent it still has big startup lag and wont cancel if the opponent shields, dair late hit is kinda sweet for edge guarding it sometimes combo into fair or bair, side b can never be completely laggless, it just laggs less, its not completely safe but it is decently safe and it confirms into a kill combo with bair and uair if you hit with the end/middle of the hitbox, it can even combo into upair and kill in verry high % like 120%,150%, starting at 90% you can combo kill confirm with it into bair depending on how close to the eadge he is, he can also confirm a kill with falling uair into bair or another uair but its unsafe because of its 15 frames of landinglagg, and of course dtilt into rar-uair into bair offstage could kill even at 60% but its situational, he has crazy combo game i agree thats his best pros but has a hard time earning the kill, his dair spike its not crazy at all, C. Falcon dair spike its crazy, it will kill you at 50%, and even if you dont get the spike hit, it will send you flying really far. I know what he can do but fox dose it better, can be more unpredictable because his faster, has more combos and safer kill confirms and more kill confirms....i like falco i have fun using him i like winning with him but facts are facts he is a bad character compared to others in the game, not able to get concistant results, and like i said before i think he works as a secondary, for example you Main Marth or someone that has a hard time against projectile spamers like megaman, toon link, link, villager, etc then you switch to falco cuz falco can destroy projectile spamers, i think he works really well like that.

 

[KetchupKaffei]

It's time to stop blaming the character for your poor results and actually improve. A secondary IS necessary, though. No character in this game is solo-main viable.

I believe you and some others failed to understand the whole topic in general.

If his flaws won't get fixed just cope with them, if his down air is bad, learn how to use it situationally as it's still a viable meteor smash. Us jiggly mains don't even get a meteor smash lol. Falco is viable and just cuz he isn't he best character he is legitimately powerful, u just need to use him right.

I already decided to drop him, he wasn't any of my mains though, just a character I enjoyed playing as( I guess a pocket?). He became enjoyable after ahwile, but later became a chore for me.
Most of my friends think I have the best Falco they ever played, but I don't think it's worth it anymore.
Yoshi filled his place.

 

[Snipnigth]

Most of my friends think I have the best Falco they ever played, but I don't think it's worth it anymore.
Yoshi filled his place.

Im thinking about picking up Fox, he is great and verry similar to Falco so i wont have a hard to getting used to him, I wanna try sonic too, altho i dont think Ill like his gamestyle, not to many combos and too many baits and hits and run, I like suited samus too, but i feel she has big problems too.

 

[Cyro]

I believe you and some others failed to understand the whole topic in general.

How so? All you basically did was complain about his moveset since it seems you don't know how to utilize it properly. I felt no need to acknowledge that.

 

[KetchupKaffei]

How so? All you basically did was complain about his moveset since it seems you don't know how to utilize it properly. I felt no need to acknowledge that.

I purely made this because I want other opinions on this matter and to let out alot of a steam with one of my enjoyable characters.

This was purely made for me to explain my dislikes for Falco, how I began to grow discomfort for him and my reasons for doing so. It goes without saying, it's opinion based. I don't have a problem with game results as Falco, I just find him the way he was designed boring overtime. This was my point of the topic. "let out alot of a steam with one of my enjoyable characters".
He's just way too slow compared to other games.
Although I went the extra mile playing as him despite the flaws, looking back on it makes ask if it was worth it.

You may say it's complaining, but it is my reasoning why I dislike some of his flaws, I think he can achieve much better in enjoyment.

You took it as if I was saying Falco isn't good at all and is just a overall bad character. Exactly why you made that improve better statement. When really nothing or nothing that resembles that was even brought up from me. If you read my og post, you could see at what level of perspective I am getting at.

You misunderstood one's opinion on the matter of a character.

 

[EXPBoost]

Yeah, most of his moves are pretty laggy. I have friend who would just play Falco to mess around and I would occasionally see him go off-stage, D-Air and FF. It's something he would do in Melee and PM. He would then tell me how his moves are filled with lag and that it would've worked in Melee. It would be nice to see some buffs in his move-set, but I doubt that will ever happen.

 

[KetchupKaffei]

Yeah, most of his moves are pretty laggy. I have friend who would just play Falco to mess around and I would occasionally see him go off-stage, D-Air and FF. It's something he would do in Melee and PM. He would then tell me how his moves are filled with lag and that it would've worked in Melee. It would be nice to see some buffs in his move-set, but I doubt that will ever happen.

I like how you understood my perspective and topic, rather than cyro, thinking I was bawing, and some others.