PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Ziodyne]

or you can laser him and then he can't move and then falco him

against retreating nairs, this is probably ur best option afaik

 

[unknown522]

damn i want to see that javi vs wes MM

This^ and the S2J vs Javi MM.

unfortunately it will never get uploaded probably. The friendlies of them were uploaded pretty much immediately after, and from what I hear the MMs were done in the same timeframe and recorded (by that mexican guy with the camera)

 

[genkaku]

who won the MMs?

 

[Ziodyne]

i know s2j won 3-1 vs. javi

 

[WestBallz]

If I would live in Cali, I would do this easily and yes I'll own you. You will not succeed! You act as if I would not be able to beat these guys and in fact I think you are wrong straight up. Even with my current skills I have a good chance to do it. (I know its going to be hard) Anyways so now you want to MM with both characters finally? I dont have to go through BS in order to do it even though you said YOU would MM anyone? Good! Now it's not so ridiculous that you need to take this kind of defense in order to not MM me.

Also, the difference is that you play these guys all the time but when it comes to actual tournaments I do it better than you, so all that's left is come get me... if you can that is.

Rofl if u lived here? You got DOUBLE 3 STOCKED by shroomed!!! There is no if u lived here we already got proof of u getting completely ANNIHILATED!!!!! You need a reality check KAGE seriously. Getting double 3 stocked is pretty bad.

 

[Xyzz]

or you can laser him and then he can't move and then falco him

It's mostly the OOS ones after a shielded laser that are kinda annoying.

Sure, I can laser some more, and eventually he'll run out of space (or I get in close enough to stuff the jump with a ftilt or whatever). But I just don't feel that I'm getting quite as much as I should for being 100% sure at times about what will happen after he shields a laser.
On the other hand Falcon's retreating nair is pretty safe and everything... I'm just not that comfortable with only taking space as Falco instead of gaining combo opportunities (:

 

[Strong Badam]

when you start thinking of taking space as a mini-neutral game victory you'll begin to understand falco's general gameplan a lot more, and vs. DD character game in general.

 

[Divinokage]

Rofl if u lived here? You got DOUBLE 3 STOCKED by shroomed!!! There is no if u lived here we already got proof of u getting completely ANNIHILATED!!!!! You need a reality check KAGE seriously. Getting double 3 stocked is pretty bad.

Yes it happens! But I still outplaced you, =)

 

[WestBallz]

Yes it happens! But I still outplaced you, =)

Hax always outplaces s2j. But s2j has always beaten harder players. Thus making s2j better even tho he doesnt place higher than hax. Your dumb logic wont work here. ****in moron

 

[enCouRaging Bear]

who has s2j beaten that hax hasn't?

 

[Bones0]

Hax always outplaces s2j. But s2j has always beaten harder players. Thus making s2j better even tho he doesnt place higher than hax. Your dumb logic wont work here. ****in moron

Placing is how you determine who is better though, not who you beat. If you beat half the best players 100% of the time and lose to the other half 100% of the time, then you'll probably always do worse than someone who has a 80% chance of beating everyone. S2J just needs more consistency and/or make sure he is comfortable in more matchups.

 

[BTmoney]

I thought it was clear hax is the best falcon right now. The only person who can do what Hax is is mango imo, but idk how his falcon would fair in serious situations versus good players.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Damn this thread is getting serious.

 

[Somaiah]

SilentSpectre 4 prez

 

[Divinokage]

Hax always outplaces s2j. But s2j has always beaten harder players. Thus making s2j better even tho he doesnt place higher than hax. Your dumb logic wont work here. ****in moron

You have to be kidding, I don't need logic in order to show clear-cut facts. Your logic is worse than mine apparently. It's twice now you fell short by saying stuff that doesn't make sense, perhaps YOU should stop posting, huh? Like you guys say.

 

[White_Mike]

That WC bias is so strong

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

u determine who is better by who is more entertaining and who gets hype
hax$> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm_FXXKeNrs

 

[R3N0]

Hax is the best falcon right now. Lets be real.

 

[prog]

i have a falco question

does anyone feel like if they like don't like that they like will like can be like control space like can be like you you you like back air like it can be everything?

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

i have a falco question

does anyone feel like if they like don't like that they like will like can be like control space like can be like you you you like back air like it can be everything?

Like how?

BTW, great comentating at Apex prog. You and Doggy nailed it.

 

[The Business]

I like the way you added to the discussion lool. I'm sorry that I tried to explain why the MU is not in Ganon's favor.

By agreeing with my summation of your points that if wes wins his char is better and if kage wins he is better, you take away all credit from wes if he wins. The ganon falco match-up isn't so absolutely ridiculous that it would take a god to beat a falco as ganon.

falco v ganon is not sheik v bowser.

 

[Warhawk]

Hax always outplaces s2j. But s2j has always beaten harder players. Thus making s2j better even tho he doesnt place higher than hax. Your dumb logic wont work here. ****in moron

Or it could just mean the player has a higher skill ceiling but lower skill floor. Its why you'll beat Zhu and Shroomed (sometimes) in socal locals and outplace them at those socal locals but then at nationals where you have to play more matches and a wider variety of players they'll outplace you, and by quite a bit. Better knowledge of different matchups, strategies, and playstyles helps cause this. Also S2J is not better than Hax lol he even says so. Your example doesn't really even make sense, who has S2J beat that Hax hasn't other than a sandbagging M2K?

 

[Ziodyne]

westballz?

i guess kirbykaze technically counts too, but everyone says he was playing rough when he played s2j at BH and hax was playing rough at ROM5

 

[BTmoney]

lol oops edited post and lost it. GG me.

 

[The Business]

You: "If west were to win, it would seriously be because his character is dramatically better than Kage's."

Me: "So if wes wins then his char is better and if kage wins he's a way better player"

You: Essentially, blah blah blah(agreeing with statement)

thats the only part I have a problem with. idgaf what you think about the matchup. I have a huge problem with you writing off the match and taking any potential credit away from westballs because of character imbalance.

 

[BTmoney]

You: "If west were to win, it would seriously be because his character is dramatically better than Kage's."

Me: "So if wes wins then his char is better and if kage wins he's a way better player"

You: Essentially, blah blah blah(agreeing with statement)

thats the only part I have a problem with. idgaf what you think about the matchup. I have a huge problem with you writing off the match and taking any potential credit away from westballs because of character imbalance.

Also here is a conventional MU concept.
The MU chart (just for the sake of numerical explanation, don't take this verbatim) says falco ganon is 70-30 falco. This means that either:
A. Falco is advantaged in 70% of positions throughout a match versus Ganon or
B. Falco will win 70% of games when facing a Ganon of equal skill

It may not be ethically correct and frowned upon to blame a loss on a bad character but it certainly makes sense logically.

Alright well I've had enough.
Interpret this/that as you will *hint, think objectively.*

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

hax is 5th best player behind hbox and above axe, wouldnt javi be the 7th best player in terms of ****

 

[Ziodyne]

ganon falco ain't that bad at all
i would say it's among the better of ganon's top/high tier matchups

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

i learned wes' shield pressure, its ****ing amazing how i can read rolls by jumping on the second shine, avoid getting caught in my shine, and have a stronger hitbox on my shines. Good ****

 

[S l o X]

hax is like the 5-7th best player in the world. s2j def. is not better than him but i do think wes > kage.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Hax is the only Falcon how is this even being discussed lol. The only other good Falcon before him was Isai.
Strong Bad is funny.
IDK about Kage vs West. Heh, could go EITHER WAY.
Im afraid West is gonna ****** the **** out of Kage.

 

[BTmoney]

Hax is the only Falcon how is this even being discussed lol. The only other good Falcon before him was Isai.
Strong Bad is funny.
IDK about Kage vs West. Heh, could go EITHER WAY.
Im afraid West is gonna ****** the **** out of Kage.

I wanna see Mango ditto Hax. Hax has gotten so much better in the last year or two and I don't think Mango ditto'd him since then.

 

[Metal Reeper]

If Hax doesn't beat Mango in Falcon dittos....Then we should all just quit.

 

[WestBallz]

Or it could just mean the player has a higher skill ceiling but lower skill floor. Its why you'll beat Zhu and Shroomed (sometimes) in socal locals and outplace them at those socal locals but then at nationals where you have to play more matches and a wider variety of players they'll outplace you, and by quite a bit. Better knowledge of different matchups, strategies, and playstyles helps cause this. Also S2J is not better than Hax lol he even says so. Your example doesn't really even make sense, who has S2J beat that Hax hasn't other than a sandbagging M2K?

Are u kidding me? i got 33th because i lost to a person who placed 9th and 5th. I just got a ****ty bracket moron. So if someone plays mango or any other top player 2nd round that means they are worse that someone who didnt have to play them. How many times has s2j played armada 2nd round at a national? Cmon your the one that doesn't make sense. Ill admit hax is better now after apex 2013 but before it was clear who was better. Your bad at this game dude you don't know what u are talking about.

 

[Ziodyne]

Hax is the only Falcon how is this even being discussed lol. The only other good Falcon before him was Isai.
.

You are tripping. Calm down.
dakrain, ss, scar (sometimes) were all amazing
hax is pretty damn beastly and prob the best falcon atm
s2j's a ****ing champ who somehow makes falcon look like a space animal. what the ****

and isai is pure swag

 

[BTmoney]

Yeah Darkrain was a Falcon pioneer

 

[Nintendude]

Westballz is lucky I don't live in socal

 

[Warhawk]

Are u kidding me? i got 33th because i lost to a person who placed 9th and 5th. I just got a ****ty bracket moron. So if someone plays mango or any other top player 2nd round that means they are worse that someone who didnt have to play them. How many times has s2j played armada 2nd round at a national? Cmon your the one that doesn't make sense. Ill admit hax is better now after apex 2013 but before it was clear who was better. Your bad at this game dude you don't know what u are talking about.

Yea but look at my two examples even using your logic, Shroomed lost to 5th and 3rd and Zhu lost to 7th and 9th. They didn't get easy brackets either (though admittedly yours was really hard for how early in bracket it was) because its not supposed to be easy to place high at a national. I just wanted to try and give you another perspective to look at outside of the way you were looking at it with, which was kind of like well player A gets a bracket with player C and beats them and therefore is better than player B who doesn't beat players as good as C to get his final bracket position even though player A might have lost to players player B would absolutely never lose to (the high skill ceiling, low skill floor comment). I don't think you can just look at anything that way. I'm not sure if I'm even going to be able to discuss this with you since it seems like you're going to take offense to everything I say when I'm not even saying you're a bad player, I think you're really damn good, or even trying to insult you at all (the last part about S2J was maybe a bit snide but nothing about what I said to you was intended to diminish your abilities as a player) and you're likely going to get mad and throw more insults at me, but that was what I was trying to do is not anger you but illustrate that its not so easy to gauge relative skill. It can't just be gauged with well I beat this player in the head to head and so am better than him. Usually yes but not always.

 

[Divinokage]

Yea but look at my two examples even using your logic, Shroomed lost to 5th and 3rd and Zhu lost to 7th and 9th. They didn't get easy brackets either (though admittedly yours was really hard for how early in bracket it was) because its not supposed to be easy to place high at a national. I just wanted to try and give you another perspective to look at outside of the way you were looking at it with, which was kind of like well player A gets a bracket with player C and beats them and therefore is better than player B who doesn't beat players as good as C to get his final bracket position even though player A might have lost to players player B would absolutely never lose to (the high skill ceiling, low skill floor comment). I don't think you can just look at anything that way. I'm not sure if I'm even going to be able to discuss this with you since it seems like you're going to take offense to everything I say when I'm not even saying you're a bad player, I think you're really damn good, or even trying to insult you at all (the last part about S2J was maybe a bit snide but nothing about what I said to you was intended to diminish your abilities as a player) and you're likely going to get mad and throw more insults at me, but that was what I was trying to do is not anger you but illustrate that its not so easy to gauge relative skill. It can't just be gauged with well I beat this player in the head to head and so am better than him. Usually yes but not always.

You dont need to take a step back in order to show your respect just because he's good and especially when he insults you, you're just making an observation on placings. If he continues to be that way then he's just as good as Leffen about getting his point across.

I mean I also lost to 5th and 7th and these are the type of players I also normally lose to, he has nothing to say about the position he's in right now, especially not top 20.

 

[ElloEddy]

If Hax doesn't beat Mango in Falcon dittos....Then we should all just quit.

dittos mean nothing .....i wanna see mu's ...like they both use falcon vs PP ..VS ..cobol...vs ....VANS ...vs pewpewu etc