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Falco Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Falco' started by Dr Peepee, Nov 27, 2009.

  1. Dr Peepee

    Dr Peepee
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    Edit: whuuups put the critique in the quote. ah well it looks fine just read there haha =p

    I'm basing this on vid 1:


    -Don't Dair high when you force the opponent to stay in shield for a long time. Making the shield as small as possible+being super safe on it is great for you and awful for them.

    -You were missing shines after your l-cancel. Don't get hasty.

    -You approach with Nair too much at lower percents.

    -You also don't take time to see if the opponent is conditioned to stay in place or even if your next approach will reach him effectively before committing. Slow yourself down a little more or adjust the spacing on your approaches.

    -You can take your time edgeguarding Ganon he can't go anywhere lol. Stop trying to go down there after him so much that's a good way to get Uair'd. Dair'ing on stage/from the edge is great.

    -Some of your lasers also shot out when Ganon wasn't even close to being hit by them. Don't waste movement or time shooting if it's ineffective.


    You'd be a lot better if you calmed down haha.
     
  2. Rubyiris

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    Thanks.

    Anyone else have aanything they want to add?

    Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2
     
  3. Bones0

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    Damn, thanks a TON. Every single bullet point addresses something I remember struggling with so this helps a lot. PP critiques 2gud. I'll probably rewatch your matches vs. Armada to make sure I pick up on some of the spacing details you mentioned. ^_^


    @Rubyiris
    Are any of those vids vs. Marth?
     
  4. Rubyiris

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    No.

    Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk 2
     
  5. Strong Bad

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    Ruby: I think in general you should try to DD more often. You laser a bit too much IMO. Your laser spacing is good, and you create a lot of openings, but you don't really take advantage of them because you're so focused on lasering a lot of the time. Most of your approaches are also directly after a laser; you should try to mix things up a bit more. Dash dance gives you options in that regard. I also didn't notice you grab very often. It's not the best thing to land, but if you can condition your opponent to shield a lot you can gain repeated positional advantage via fthrow/uthrow and it's better than you'd expect.
    Also there were times where you tried to shine but he was barely too far away; try to up-tilt a bit more in those situations.
     
  6. Rubyiris

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    I used to grab a lot when I played in tournaments a lot, but I fell out of the habit when I stopped playing melee. I know.I should grab more, but as you said. I'm really focused on doing other things correctly.

    Thanks for the input, though. I'm just glad I can still at least space things moderately well.

    :phone:
     
  7. unknown522

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    Stab, I watched your set vs Atma. You can do better

    :phone:
     
  8. stabbedbyanipple

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    Yeah i blow balls vs peach atm. That and samus are my weak matchups (and have been for a while).

    If you don't mind, could your critique the first match for me? If you're into hardcore S&M, then do the last match too.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7dea-5pI5U for anyone else who wants to join in on the fun
     
  9. unknown522

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    Eventually.

    Once I saw the matchup in game 3, and how much time was left. I said to myself 'uh oh. This isn't going to go well'

    :phone:
     
  10. Bones0

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  11. ShroudedOne

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    Lmao, Bones. <3
     
  12. Bones0

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    Idk what you're talking about. :rolleyes:
     
  13. leffen

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    pp would you mind giving me some critique on my set vs Armada from smashers reunion? I dont really care about my falco matches since I only played falco because my controller broke ;o


    :>
     
  14. Dr Peepee

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    I was not expecting that

    ......

    yes I will of course critique you =)



    All critiques will be done tonight though. I'm writing that post I promised atm and then I'm probably heading out for a while.
     
  15. Divinokage

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    Heading out to hunt booty.
     
  16. Dark Hart

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    Callin ya, bit

    :phone:
     
  17. leffen

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    I wanna get better sooooooo baaaaaaad pp, even if I have to sell my soul and beg for the help of a silly flopmerican like you PP


    Gonna face Armada again at the 10th-12th of august, and I wanna be ready to beat him this time
     
    Kopaka likes this.
  18. Dr Peepee

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    Well I at least admire the drive and dedication to improvement. I will make sure I don't skimp on your critique, don't worry.

    Also good luck!
     
  19. Dr Peepee

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    How to Practice on Your Own(Work in Progress)[Updated 8/7/12]

    Hey everyone, I'm at it again. This time, I'm going to answer one of the questions I've seen persist the longest since I started playing(and, indeed, had to tackle myself): How do you prepare for tournaments on your own?

    Since Melee is not blessed with the gift of Wifi that other games have the great luxury of experiencing, we as Melee players have to get creative to solve problems related to gameplay when we get an urge to play by ourselves. Here, I hope to outline some strategies for handling every aspect of gameplay, from neutral position to punishment, and anything in between. I listed this post as a "Work in Progress" because I do not claim to know all training methods and I'm sure I will learn more on my path of improvement. For now, I will list anything and everything I know about training. Hopefully that will be enough for anyone aspiring to up their game.



    Neutral position:

    Neutral is easily the biggest part of Melee, and it's impossible I can get everything ever out of playing a human opponent down here, but here are some specific parts of playing a human that can be imitated....


    1. Shadowboxing

    For anyone(Kage) training for/reading about being a fighter, you've become quite familiar with this term I'm sure. Essentially, shadowboxing is the process of "pretending" to fight an opponent on your own. Here are a couple ways you can practice fighting against an actual opponent:


    A. Take a low-level CPU/controller plugged into another slot(with or without handicap). Get into various ranges vs this opponent and do different fakeouts and attack patterns vs them. For example, as Falco, running up with a laser from different spacings and doing a DD fakeout into a spaced immediate SH Dair might be one mixup you use. Next time, do a laser from a similar spacing into a grab or maybe jab into whatever. Notice the mixup between direct and indirect attacking which will surely make you harder to read. You can also change your spacing and timing of each of your attacks as well as move choices and whether you FF or not, for some things to change up that will really work on human opponents.

    Specific Character Basic Examples:

    Puff: how many attacks you use while airborne and what you land into doing(ex: aerial into crouch vs aerial into grab)

    Peach: when you FC/what height you FC at and what you land into doing(ex: crouch)

    Spacies: whether you're close enough to shine or not

    Marth: Different Fair/Nair/Dtilt zoning techniques that also intertwine with movement zoning techniques(ex: attacking out of different points in a DD or at different times in a SH)

    Sheik: Fair/Bair/Ftilt/Dtilt zoning techniques+combination with mostly WD movement zoning techniques(ex: AC Fair at different spacings into WD back/forward dash attack/boost grab)

    Ask for more examples for your character if these aren't clear/you need more clarification for a character that is not on here!


    *credit to Cactuar for relaying this method to me*



    B. A variation on shadowboxing that I have decided was worth mentioning is to single player glitch(ask if you don't know how to do this) so that you can pick a stage and it is just your character on the stage. That way, you are not tempted to combo after practicing in neutral position and getting the hit. Also, you learn how to maneuver around stages as well as you like and can practice any and all techniques as though a person were there. It feels more free-form for those people wanting to imagine an invisible opponent responding to their attacks or defenses.

    The better you can attempt to imagine how an opponent will respond to your move(ment)s, the better this exercise will be. Your understanding of how an opponent will respond can come from videos and your own experience, so this exercise is limited only by the motivation of the person practicing it(for the most part, it would obviously be better to play a human but this is the next-best thing).



    2. Playing with a metronome.

    First of all: http://advanced.bestmetronome.com is where you want to go in order to get the best metronome online. But what can a silly metronome do to make you better at neutral position? It just keeps rhythm! Well, that is actually the wonderful thing about metronomes: they have a consistent rhythm. Without devolving into a ton of explanation, rhythm is important at neutral because it's a great way to control your opponent and subconsciously trick them into thinking you will attack at the same rhythm you were using before you attacked. So, you can use this online metronome to keep time(and even change up at later parts if you fiddle with it enough) and allow a natural rhythm of attacking and defending to emerge.

    Perhaps, as Fox, you want to DD into an Upsmash. Well, using the metronome, you can control the rhythm of your DD and then adjust it to have you speed up/slow down before the upsmash is delivered, thus throwing off your opponent's rhythm and making them more likely to be caught off guard by your attack.

    As Puff, maybe you want to slow the fast opponent down. You should do lots of slower dashes and maybe wait a little in between doing each jumping aerial. Your opponent will have to be watching for a moment to strike, but his reflexes may be slowed by how slowly you are moving. Then you can attack him swiftly while he is still waiting for you to drift around some more! The metronome can help Puff players keep her dashes slower but even and her jumping aerials timed far enough apart to disorient their opponents.


    *credit to Cactuar*



    side note: you can, of course, practice rhythm without a metronome by shadowboxing with or without a character on the screen and just working on your rhythm by itself, but this is for those who struggle with the concept or want to experiment with many different rhythms outside of their creativity level.



    3. Counterattacking


    This is really an add-on to shadowboxing, but I decided to give it its own section because of how underlooked yet important it is. Counterattacking is nothing more than taking your opponent's attack and using it against them/punishing them for it.

    Part of counterattacking comes from understanding hitboxes and how they work. Some moves get smaller hitboxes if they're out for longer(Fox Nair), some stay the same but arc, so they aren't as useful until even later than they come out(Marth/Ganon Fair). Learning hitboxes and how exactly the moves work for your character vs every other character can be a great asset when you really need that kill move or combo starter. You may need another player to test many of these moves with yours at different timings, but that can be done at a smashfest/before bracket if you can't get anyone to do that with you before then.

    The part you CAN test on your own is when you have a CPU that is set to a higher level and tries to attack you. Staying close to him but still avoiding the attack, you can chose many different hitboxes and angles to attack from once the opponent has initiated an action. WD'ing, DD'ing, jumping, shielding(sort of), spotdogding, rolling, airdodging...their are many ways to dodge attacks. The way you counter will be up to you.

    Spacies: spotdodge into shine on otherwise unpunishable jabs/tilts. Also, SH'ing over a low attack into a Bair/Dair.

    Peach: Float just as the attack comes out into FC aerial. CC a jab into your own jab grab(if Dsmash isn't worth going for).

    Marth: Dash away to avoid the attack, to dash partway back in rising Fair/Nair to outrange the smaller attack. Also, CC grab(very good but underused).

    Sheik: SH over an attack into Fair. Also, WD back dash/boost grab.

    Puff: Crouch under an attack to rest/Fsmash. Also, shielding the attack and then WD'ing OOS to grab/Uptilt the opponent.


    *credit to Cactuar*





    Comboing:


    So you might be wondering how can one practice combos when the CPU doesn't mix up its DI and doesn't usually tech? Well, we are going to defer to the M2K strategy on this one.


    M2K's strategy was essentially taking every percent reasonably possible(so maybe 0-130% at the greatest range) and seeing what would happen off of a grab/hit at that percent and how the opponent could DI and what the followup could be like. Yes, it is tedious. The payoff is amazing though(look at M2K combo videos).

    Tip: CPUs DI in different ways based on level, so testing combos on different levels of CPUs is incredibly useful. At the 7-9 end of CPU level, they DI harder and harder in for MOST situations. I'm pretty sure 6 mixes up its DI between in and out/neutral decently. I think 1-2 don't DI much at all. M2K has claimed that 3 has the most humanlike DI(for CGs anyway) but I haven't messed with that too much. I actually never play with 4s or 5s but I will update this section here when I do(if anyone wants to go check and tell me that works too haha).
    **The basic point is to not play one level of CPU much at all but to experiment combo starters on ALL CPU levels at ALL important percents.

    The way M2K explains his combos is he gets opponents offstage/into the air/on their backs and turns most situations into 50/50 guesses if not better in his favor.

    So,

    For Falco, this would mean practicing getting the opponent on their back on a platform/by the edge ideally so he could cover many options with Dair/Bair.

    For Fox, this could mean getting them into the air and threatening between jumping with Uair/Bair or waiting and Uptilting, or getting them onto their back and waiting for an appropriate punish(he is fast enough), or covering all high-recovery options with a rising Bair of some sort.

    For Peach, this would mean....well you can watch Armada do it LOL but basically it's getting them into the air if he can't finish the combo outright and then using a turnip or the threat of Peach jumping with Uair/Nair and trading/beating them outright to scare them into attacking or airdodging and then he gets a free hit if he guesses correctly.

    For Marth, this would mean getting the opponent into the air and working his SH Uair to cover their descent into him or threatening with Uair and then DJ'ing into attacking them instead or waiting and Uptilting/WD Fsmashing/DD grabbing. Marth can also get the opponent onto the ground by the edge with a throw and Dair to cover pretty much all of their options.

    For Sheik, this could mean getting the opponent into the air and threatening with SH (AC) Uair/Bair. It could also mean getting the opponent to tech by the edge and running up and Dsmash'ing/Upsmash'ing to cover most/all of their options.

    For Puff, this could mean getting them airborne and tripping them up on whether she Uairs their landing lag or dodges and grabs them. When the opponent is grounded, Puff can float over them and aerial to cover 3/4ths of their options if they're by the edge(rolling into her or getup attacking or a very well timed standing getup would be all that's safe and she can react and punish those).



    This may sound like it's something people could do naturally playing, but if they don't actually sit down and learn to maximize their punishments, then they tend not to be able to do it. My own punishments suffer because I don't do this enough. Practice in a situation breeds familiarity. The more comfortable one is with a situation, the better they will be at handling it when it arises again. Plus, people generally learn better trying things on their own under low/no risk situations. Having knowledge you cultivated yourself also means you will retain it easier and not lose it under pressure(aka when it counts).

    Oh yeah, a final tip in case I didn't really say it outright: Always consider options outside of what you saw. consider all defensive options for the combo you are performing. Consider SDI and no DI. Consider whether they attack or wait, whether they stand up right away or lay still a while. Once you have considered all options and know all options, then you can abuse them the best.




    *very sad note: I have nothing to offer on edgeguarding or I'd put it here =(*





    Teching and DI:


    I'll add this first in case most people don't know about it.

    A. Motion-Sensor Bomb teching. I suppose this is good for onstage DI/teching practice as well but I'm mostly talking about its uses as a means for aiding recovery teching practice. The gist is this: You put the motion-sensor bomb on the wall right around where a hitbox might connect with your character. Then when you recover into it you get a hitbox as you get close to the bomb just like it would be someone attacking you. Rinse and repeat as needed!


    B. Credits to Ice for this one! Ice practiced teching using moves that take some time to start up like Marth Fsmash or Falcon punch. What he would do is get a second controller, get the character to a designated teching percent, start the move then pause. He would then switch the controller, unpause the game when he was ready, and see if he could get the DI down for the tech(he only uses DI down[holding control stick down] and not double sticking or quarter-circling or SDI for this by the way). Be sure to know exactly how much percent your character can take before each individual finisher from the opponent becomes untechable!

    Added information on how to tech correctly from LEFFEN!




    Character-specific training methods(big work in progress):

    Okay, so I thought I'd take the time to list anything character-specific that might not be covered in my other sections.


    A. Shield pressure(Spacies, Peach, etc?)

    There are two main ways that I currently know of to practice shield pressure(without Action Replay):

    1. Training mode Starman. You can't use the C stick but the hitlag for people with a Starman on is the same as that of hitting a shield. Set a Starman as the item, put it on the required character, and practice not missing your L-cancels and mixing up your spacing/timing. It's as useful as you want it to be.

    2. Handicap practice. Set a CPU/other plugged in controller to a handicap of 9 and yourself as a 1. That way, the opponent doesn't go anywhere from getting hit by your attacks and you can practice all you want. Additionally, hitlag from hitting a non-shielding opponent is the same as hitting a shielding opponent, so the timings will be the same if you practice correctly.


    B. Shield Dropping(all)

    Put a lower-level CPU against yourself(or higher if you wanna practice faster), jump on a platform, let the CPU jump and hit your shield and see if you can shield drop+maybe punish successfully. Of course, if you just want to drop through a platform without your shield getting hit, then you can just 1 player glitch/plug in another controller/go to training mode to practice moving and shield dropping on your own.



    *to be continued*





    Miscellaneous


    This section is for anything(probably player-related) that helps them train.


    A. Listening to music.

    Maybe an upbeat song keeps your spirits high/rhythm solid. Maybe a slower song helps you maintain composure/keep a slower rhythm. Maybe your favorite song puts you in the mood to just play the game. Whatever the reason, listening to music can definitely keep a player engaged while playing the game.

    B. Imagining the crowd being hype/playing crowd reactions.

    Perhaps you struggle with dealing with the crowd. Well, imagine people talking or yelling behind you when you run through training exercises. It can be a great way to get used to hype. If you run out of motivation for people yelling/get used to the kind you create, then maybe load some crowd reactions on Youtube and see if that is easy to train with.

    C. Thinking about the game.

    This one is kind of broad because it can be about literally anything and is different to everyone. Perhaps you want to think about edgeguarding more because you can't really practice it, so you imagine trying to edgeguard a top player recovering and how you would get the kill. Maybe you want to think up new things to apply in your shadowboxing training like a new movement trick or a character with a faster jab so they're harder to dodge. Maybe you want to think up new combo setups to test out.

    No matter what topic(s) you pick, always follow it as long as you possibly can, branching out as much as you can. The deeper you delve into a topic, the more you will learn and question from that. The questions lead to searches for answers/motivation. The stuff you learn helps you do well and allows you to improve more without even playing the game.

    *credit to Dkou for this suggestion*

    (if anyone wants me to rephrase/add to this, let me know!)

    D. Powershielding

    Tired of Falco's lasers locking you down? Not sure what to do about Samus' missiles? Well then read this post by LEFFEN to get an idea of how to practice each technique!

    The reason why Leffen says do the powershield out of different movements and such is because Falco can shoot at many different times in a match, and you want to be prepared to powershield from ANY position. Get creative!

    E. S2J's L-canceling practice!



    This applies to ALL characters because they all have hard cancels to hit sometimes!

    F. Cactuar is at it again! This time, he is telling us how to use hitbox .gifs(animations) to study other characters' hitboxes and learn where the openings are so we can sneak our own moves in before/after them!

    Example: You look at Marth's Fair: [​IMG]

    You see the sword starts above his head and moves downward. You can tell yourself to attack just as it starts since it will be on his head and you will below him, OR you can tell yourself to attack when the hitbox has disappeared. Learning how long you have for the move to come out or how much lag there is on the move after being used gives you a great idea of when to tell yourself to attack!

    G. Mahone's spacing tips!

    This SAME technique was used by FORWARD when developing his dash dance. He would dash between the "tick marks" as he called them on PS, back and forth. He was told his DD was "unreadable" at Pound 3 I believe.







    *to be continued*





    OKAY guys, I've written all I can think of/manage right now. Please give me feedback and use whatever is useful here to the best of your abilities! =)
     
    delaysb, LeadRod, SuperMrJMT and 53 others like this.
  20. dkuo

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    you should include s2j's lcancelling training which is basically doing aerials against 3 ICs for ridiculous hitlag lol

    but seriously, sick post :) i know i get distracted with practicing neutral position so i like your idea for using the single player glitch.

    i think you should include a section on thinking/planning out ideas that you cant practice on your own to try out in games against other players. i believe just thinking about the game is a good habit when you cant play anyone.
     
  21. Dr Peepee

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    Do you know where S2J wrote that? If you don't know then I'll just throw it up there in a bit.

    I'll add that last part in to Misc, that's a very good idea.

    Thanks for the feedback! =)
     
  22. Bones0

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    You can't SDI into the ground to tech btw.
     
  23. tarheeljks

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    you should meet tafokints (hope he namesearches lol)
     
  24. leffen

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    I'm gonna write some more but this should be up there:


    Powershielding:

    Pick a level 9 falco on FD. You use a second controller, but then you'll often only learn to do it when you know beforehand that the laser is coming and at a set distance (lvl 9 falcos walk around etc)
    Run away from him, and wait for him to laser, react and powershield. Mixup by powershielding during different animations, types of movement, with more or less shield durability left, and so on.

    If you wanna try at different heights of lasers, use Corneria

    This also works with:
    - Peach (Turnips, practice catching them and using them, using them to recover, powershielding them)
    - Dr Mario (Pills, practice powershielding, jabbing to cancel them out etc)
    -Sheik (Needles, super tedious because of Zelda and she doesnt jump needle >_>)
    -Samus (Uses all her projectiles, if you kill yourself and wait she'll charge up her neutral B)
    - Ylink/Link (everything)
    - Mario/Luigi (Fireballs)
    - Pika/Pichu -(Jolts)
    - Mewtwo (Shadowballs, charges up if you die and wait)
    - ICs (Iceblocks, practice breaking them with attacks)
     
  25. Tee ay eye

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    SDI down doesn't work for ground-teching. The only time it can help AT ALL is if you're already in the air at the time you get hit.


    Here are the components of getting hit:

    1. Hitlag: This is when you can SDI. Hitlag is that tiny little bit of lag that takes place when their attack is actually IN CONTACT with you. For example, if you hit a giant group of shy guys, you'll clearly be able to see what hitlag is. If you are on the ground, SDI down will not do anything. It won't dig you deeper into the ground or anything. Another thing to note is that you cannot input a tech during hitlag. If you hit L or R during hitlag, you'll miss your tech.

    The reason why SDI is irrelevant to teching is mostly outlined above. Keep in mind, you cannot tech until.....
    1. You have been knocked down (which is why you can't tech super weak attacks or at super low percentages), which will not have happened until knockback and hitstun
    2. You have come in contact with a techable surface. All the ground-teching shenanigans take place AFTER hitlag and SDI are over.

    2. Hitstun/knockback: This takes place immediately after hitlag. This is when your character actually experiences the effects of their attack. During the first frame of knockback and hitstun, THREE major things will happen:
    a. Regular DI will be applied to your trajectory
    b. You will get knocked back at a certain trajectory at a certain rate
    c. ASDI

    So when you ground tech, what's happening is that the vertical distance from your ASDI down is GREATER than the vertical distance from that first frame of knockback.

    This is why double stick DI works. The c-stick allows you to ASDI down, and the control stick allows you to reduce the vertical distance of your trajectory.
     
  26. Strong Bad

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    basically, yeah.
    the initial angle of most attacks is 45 degrees, diagonally up and forward
    then, your trajectory DI comes into play. this is based on which angle your control stick is, maximum affect is 18 degrees if your direction is perpendicular (90 degrees) off from initial trajectory. interesting fact: because of the notches in the controller, at times less-than perpendicular is more optimal than perpendicular DI.
    then, your character's falling speed & falling speed acceleration affects your location coupled with the knockback that's applied to your character every frame (decays by a set amount each frame, hence why you slow down after a while)
    so if you want to know why ganon lives forever and fox dies at 50% from a knee w/ bad DI, there you go
    SDI can let you hit a techable surface where you otherwise wouldn't have, but generally it only allows you to hit it sooner. true CC is far more powerful (actually crouching).

    can't SDI into the ground to tech, but you can SDI into a wall/ledge to tech. hence ledgetching.
     
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  27. leffen

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    AJP recently told me that Cstick "asdi" is completely different from normal asdi - its much shorter, and you can get both control stick (a)sdi and cstick sdi (the reason why this wasn't used in most tas's is simply because cstick is camera in 1p mode)


    Your explanation makes a ton of sense though, so maybe I just got it wrong.

    Important things about practicing teching:
    -Use taunts to make sure that you aren't crouch canceling
    -You need to fly as close to the ground as possible, this means that you will almost always DI Down+Away, not Down+towards like many use for Spacie Dsmashes (it only works for it)
    -To practice it, I simply taunt with the character I wanna tech with, start whatever move with my other controller and pause [before it hits], switch controllers, input tech/DI


    its kind of embarrassing that no one but Ice has really started using tech's yet, it makes edgeguarding/punishing soooooooo much harder. Marth recovers onto ledge at 150% and you jump->Bair? lol free tech.
    You wanna dair? I either tech or just edge cancel away the lag. Free.
    Strong fsmash at 120%? No problem, tech.

    Its really stupid, and its sooooo easy. Down+Away on control stick, down on cstick, R way a bit before attack hits. Done
     
  28. Tee ay eye

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    wat
     
  29. Bones0

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    Mew2King has sick techs in tourney all the time.
     
  30. leffen

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    uh, example? He died several times in the one set I just watched of his sheik (vs dr pp @zenith) and didn't do the tech once
     
  31. Rubyiris

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    Not to be rude, but I've been ground teching things consistently since 2008. I know I'm not a "relevant" player, but I ground tech, and platform tech the **** out of things.

    I'm one of the few players that will tech on a platform whilst rising from underneath due to a KO move to not die.
     
  32. leffen

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    I don't think you tech in the way I'm implying, and regardless I'm not saying that this is new (thats why its stupid that no one consistently uses it)
     
  33. Tee ay eye

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    what kind of teching are you talking about?

    just ground teching kill moves?

    if so, i thought like, every relevant player did so.

    sure, not everyone optimizes their DI via double sticking or whatever, but i could've sworn like, everyone and their mother AT THE VERY LEAST just holds down for the ASDI and tries to tech
     
  34. s2j

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    my l-canceling practice is extra legit if you really really want to warm up l-cancelling lol some days its too hard even to do that with 0 practice

    edit: I made a topic
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=325971

    idk what this mini-guide will be used for but I am HONORED to be used in anything PP writes
     
  35. N.A.G.A.C.E

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    dr. pp your post should be put in melee discussion and stickied since a new thread about practicing by yourself shows up every couple of months
     
  36. unknown522

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    Wow zhu vs PPU......at least zhu learned to grab / u-throw sort of game 2

    :phone:
     
  37. Dr Peepee

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    You're a great guy S2J, thanks! I'll put everything people have said up tonight or tomorrow, and I may ask questions about some of it first. XD


    NOW THEN, Leffen's critique......


    0:02- Dash attack. It looks like you'd have gotten away with an Upsmash here but Armada COULD have CC'd it so be careful with that(he might also have been able to punish the lag anyway because his % was so low). I recommend grabbing or drilling or Bair'ing out of that DD in some form instead of dash attacking.

    0:05- You miss the punish because you are dashing. Uptilt will beat all of Peach's moves if you walk/WD when she's above you, and Upsmash will be a trade in your favor at lower percents. If Armada SDIs the Uair then just WD back Uptilt or DD grab, stop trying to be so fast and DD so much, you'll miss punishments that way.

    0:09- Questionable Dtilt, but it's okay since it's the beginning of the set I guess. I'd have preferred working Bairs or grabbing right there just because Peach really can't go anywhere and might not want to. I understand you did the Dtilt to keep him from moving/WD'ing backward, but I'd think he'd not want to do that as much if he saw you running towards him(with no SH). Working Bairs is much easier in this position because you remove a lot of guesswork and don't have to sweat CC+it's great damage+he can't really avoid it so you set up great pressure if he does shield. If you want to go for the bigger punish then stick to what I said earlier I suppose.

    0:10- I can't help but feel like you're too anxious thus far. If you don't already, learn the percents dash attack will put Peach into the tumbling animation(probably a little higher than what you hit Armada at here) so you can get a combo or at least very advantageous position(pseudo-combo) out of it. You could have just FH Bair'd and forced Armada to keep his space by the way. He was going to try and dash attack at that spacing and you could have even Dair shined him for it.

    0:12- Not sure why you rolled here, were you expecting a FH Bair from Armada? Either way, WD'ing OOS downward could be a great help here. That, or maybe FH'ing straight up onto the platform. I don't think he could have punished that there. Anyway, you did right to shine on Armada's shield, but since you didn't have advantage in the situation, Armada was quick to pop the up-B(it may also be easier to combo Fox out of than Falco idk). Try double shining or shine grabbing or shine WD'ing back or shine instant Nair backwards once in a while to see if you can catch Armada coming OOS early like that. Shine grab in particular would have been solid since you hadn't hit with shine yet this match. It was a wonky situation because you were trying to pressure without momentum, so work on getting that back before going into more delayed pressure imo.

    0:16- Was that your best option out of Uptilt? What about Uair or Nair'ing them forward? Nair wouldn't have sent Armada as far and he looked like was DI'ing offstage anyway. Sets up for more Uptilts/Upsmashes/Bairs basically lol.

    then you spazz out a little so I dunno what to say about that beyond what I said already lol.

    0:23- NOOOOOOOO

    If floaties are pressured, they can and will take more time to break spacie momentum. If Armada was fine sitting there then you could have FH Nair'd him and made him more anxious next time he was in that situation. This is the second time by the edge you are punished for being too anxious.

    0:26- I feel like you could have DJ side B'd to the top platform lol. You could also have waited for Armada to descend before jumping. You could have honestly even gone to the edge and invincible edgedashed into him to force him to reset and get space if you have the confidence in your edgedashes. That's not really necessary here though. Staying in place was dangerous and felt to me like you let him change the pace of the match too easily. Floaties suck most when their mobility disadvantage is abused!

    0:34- Once again, a quick OOS option on you. I think shine upsmash would have been an interesting option choice there because it might be safe on block against Peach and would have killed him if he jumped out. I forget though. Anyway, mix up that on shield timing and spacing to avoid getting easily countered OOS.

    0:37- It kinda looks like Armada fell down then stopped his float so he could watch you whiff a Bair then FC Fair you lol. Anyway, you stand still too much imo and it allows Armada to manipulate you with little tricks like that. If you only jumped around a little more or WD/DD'd a little more he'd have to guess based on what you're doing instead of see you standing still and trick you into Bair'ing like that. Consider also not directly attacking him as he returns to the stage but right after he lands from these floats. He's hit you for being too anxious on attacking his recovering floats twice.

    0:42- well I think you know. let me know if otherwise.

    shine stall btw.

    0:46- I bet you could have crouched below/jumped above that turnip and then attacked Armada.

    1:01- Attacking directly OOS on you AGAIN. You see a theme here? Shine Upsmash, Shine Dair, shine grab maybe, double shine(waveland). They will all benefit you here. Shine instant Nair too maybe if you like what it could do for you(it's safe too if you mess up).

    1:03- Why jump at Peach from so far away? It makes you too easy to read and punish. Peach can't reliably float at that height vs Fox, so get close and either attack into her quickly or watch her squirm and punish her.

    1:07- Don't dash back in! You had so much of the stage to yourself. Slow down, work your Bairs if needed, otherwise keep the Uptilt ready to keep Peach from having an easy landing. Dashing removes options and gives you none if you are too far away.

    1:27- Good Bair, but you could have FH Bair'd/maybe Uair'd again before worrying about the FC Fair. If you insist on DD punishing, then be sure to go farther with your away dash/WD away so you can appropriately punish without getting hit.

    1:35- You jumped before Armada was even close to you. The shield was fine, but jumping out of it quickly like that is a habit too many spacies have now. Again, WD'ing OOS downward would have been fine. You could have also waited until Armada was closer before rolling or jumping OOS or even WD'ing back onto the edge OOS for another invincible edgedash.

    1:38- Couldn't you have sweetspotted the side B?

    1:42- Why are you DJ'ing when Armada was clearly falling right then? Get under him and stay under him until you rise to attack(at least while invincible). Too anxious again imo. Just work your uptilt again there and Bair probably works too.

    1:46- Hit again for watching Armada instead of challenging him after you score a weak hit. You could also dash away as you see the attack starting up or just keep moving if you don't trust your reaction time.

    1:49- AR had just landed from a farther away FC so he had time to react to your SH Nair. It would have been better if you SH'd towards him and then attacked because you would have had free stage+armada close to you on the ground caught offguard. To be safer, you could have just dropped down from the edge and taken your free stage+maybe a couple lasers if you didn't want to set up Bair zoning or something else similar.

    2:06- Armada will wait out his float before airdogding through that range you want to FH backwards into. It would be better to make him think he should be worrying about Bair or FH backward shine and then dash into him and FH shine anyway or wait his airdodge out and punish it. Learn how long float is and remember floaties loooove breaking spacie momentum.

    2:09- Why shield? If he falls into you then you have all day to upsmash trade and kill him. You are at advantage in that situation. If Peach is not at her optimal float height then you should feel very confident in challenging her.

    2:19- I think AR can tell by your spacing and movement how eager to hit him you are. Try doing more attacks out of passive movement and more waits out of aggressive movement. Also he mixed that recovery up so you should keep that in mind and do the same thing vs his recovery on your respawn and see if it works.

    2:21- anxious. or maybe you thought he was floating low enough? Either way, a good FH Nair would have taken care of that float height and forced him to FC into your next JC upsmash.

    2:30- As tempting as it may be, running up and shielding vs Armada isn't usually good because of Peach's great close range moves. You want to abuse your mobility vs her, so if you need to reset momentum don't worry about how much stage you have on BF. You can always get it back by running on platforms momentarily if need be. If you don't feel like doing that, then you can just play simply, throwing out some Bairs and keeping a loose DD to help yourself re-establish your position. Anxiety gets you once again, you need to be calmer.

    2:45- Peach can't do much landing from a Bair, so a SH Dair is something I'd recommend here(no lame jabs). It beats the spotdodge and will lead into a "free" shine grab if Peach gets her shield up+your timing wasn't quite good enough to hit her before it came up. I suppose the alternative could have been to get close and see if Armada would have jumped/dashed away and then punished.

    2:51- try to break that habit. shield wouldn't have done any good like movement would have there.

    2:53- Should have gotten off the platform and gotten below Peach. She can't counter that nearly as easily as she can jump into you there when she has no fear of trading and has momentum anyway.

    3:08- He fishes for those Nairs at higher percents, so it's better to play around a little/come down from a side platform in that situation. Playing hastily plays right into his hands for the match and his momentum and his character, take your time more.


    I think I made it pretty clear what you need to do here. Good luck
     
  38. Dr Peepee

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    Double post because new posts showed up:

    Zhu made me extremely sad that set =( play more PLEASE zhu <3

    Waiting for more PPU matches to come up.
     
  39. unknown522

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    PPU vs SW is a pretty good set

    :phone:
     
  40. Dr Peepee

    Dr Peepee
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    Haven't looked I've been busy

    I'll check that out in a couple minutes =)
     

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