PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Dr Peepee]

good stuff chok

has anyone been playing with dair -> no tech/tech inplace -> dtilt? i've been liking it as a killing move against more floaty characters recently

idk if it's been discussed already, though. i don't lurk enough

I've seen Lambchops do it when I watched him play vs Xif/Armada so it seems extremely solid. I forgot about the trick though and I'm glad you reminded me of it. I don't like the obvious giveaway crouch you have to do that can give yourself away but if they miss the tech then that doesn't matter anyway.

$mike is damn good for real, played him at rom3 that was fun.

i don't like falcon vs falco tho its hard, you have to be really good with lasers, watch out for his bs tricks (nair over/raptorboost under), and you die at 50% from any launcher into knee +edgeguard. fox on the other hand beats falcon much easier imo, or atleast, i do better vs top falcons with fox than falco.

I wholeheartedly think Fox has it way better vs Falcon than Falco does. Fox is tooo good.

Well that's assuming you get them in the air but I'm also pretty sure Dair to dtilt combos from the ground too. I personally like it and I use it.

Haha he means Dair'ing floaties into the ground(most likely from a Dair in the first place).

 

[Sion]

or shine/utilt to dair, but they both work

but yeah, i saw chops do it and it seemed very viable, since many dairs or combos lead to non techs sometimes (it gets harder and harder to tech when combo'd, especially under pressure imo)
i still haven't seen many people use it and i think it's a great finisher after dair-> tech chase fsmash or any other tech chase

dair -> dtilt is good grounded too. i need to learn how to use more of falco's moves

 

[Dr Peepee]

Dtilt can lead to STUPID things on Fox sometimes lol(especially if they DI in).

I should probably play with Falco's moveset more myself. I'm sure this character isn't tapped out yet.

 

[Sion]

yeah, but generic shine/utilt combos are soooo drilled into my head

lmao, pp, i don't know any other falco that plays and uses falco's moveset like you do =P
i kinda learned how to use other moves from you as well
especially utilt

but yeah, falco is sooo crazy. falco's moves definitely haven't been fully explored yet.

 

[Rubyiris]

cmon ruby

just cmon man!

maybe beat axe and i'll respeck

pretty sure i'd tap! and im not even ranked in norcal!! :D

MM? I like the ICs match up.

Come to az baybee. <3.

@utilt discussion:

That ish is ooooooooold. We're talking Forward/Rob$ old. Noob *** Falcos just forget that ish existed until PP was like yo sup *****es I'm good at this game.

Also I like dair > no tech dsmash punish better. Covers more options.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Thanks so much for the advice vs peach/puff.
If Peach is floating just above me should I just wait? It's really scary. Like you said I want to fight a grounded Peach so I guess I would just wait.

I also love your blog posts <3
Do you have a thread on the blog forum?

 

[Rubyiris]

Thanks so much for the advice vs peach/puff.
If Peach is floating just above me should I just wait? It's really scary. Like you said I want to fight a grounded Peach so I guess I would just wait.

I also love your blog posts <3
Do you have a thread on the blog forum?

Uhm I don't get it. You mean you should challenge them when they're very high in their float? Can you post any video examples?

Also your posts are awesome <33

sorry to self-plug, but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=2m11s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=2m37s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=5m44s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=7m10s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=8m00s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=11m22s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=11m25s

in general, these are just good examples of ****** peach's float when she's not floating @ a height she wants to be.

^^^

These are all good examples of where challenging a float is beneficial. What you want to do is learn when you can, and can not challenge her float and use that knowledge to learn when to wait for her to get back on the ground, and when to run in and kick her in the face.

 

[ArcNatural]

ahhhh my boy is getting his name out there

My first suggestion is to wait, even if only for a moment. You can learn a lot in that time frame if you watch more.

I'll have to try that. I can at times go even with $mike, but on the whole he is way more consistent than I am. But he has motivated me to improve my consistency and desire to just get better.

Also PP, if you ever wanted some new ideas to try out you can always let me know. You can ask $mike about some of the new ideas I gave him XD.

 

[Metal Reeper]

@ Ruby. Yeah if Peach is high I would just space bair/laser or wait til she comes down. I ment what should I do when Peach is floating just above me out of SHL range.

 

[Lightsyde]

Omggg Dtilt is my stuff. I use it like crazy. Dthrow Shield Poke Dtilt ***** Fox during pressure if you do it right.

Also, Ftilt at all its angles is too good.

Also, charge Dsmash to beat characters recoveries that like to poke your feet.

Also, Waveland off Shine turnaround rising Dair is too good.

Also, $mike is legit but he, and every other Falcon are combo food if you are patient and do good Utilts then combo hard. Mike will combo you to death every time if you let him so you have to combo him harder.

 

[Rubyiris]

@ Ruby. Yeah if Peach is high I would just space bair/laser or wait til she comes down. I ment what should I do when Peach is floating just above me out of SHL range.

that's the range we're talking about. If she is at that range because you forced her to be, she's at your mercy. Just go ****ing kick her. If she's at that height of her own volition, don't challenge that **** and just wait.

 

[JPOBS]

PP totally jacked my playstyle real talk. I was a huge user of uptilt forever now, but he's more famous so woe is me <3

but for real, i love falco's tilts. Ftilt, uptilt and dtilt all have amazing uses.

 

[Lightsyde]

Every single one of Falco's moves is good. It's all about knowing how to use them.

 

[FoxLisk]

is it weird if i use down angled ftilt to poke shields instead of dtilt?

 

[choknater]

ruby of course i'll mm you, but i dont like those come to az curfew johns. i mean, theyre legit, but i could just as legitimately say my mother doesn't let me travel OOS to tournaments. heck, i've only been to one tournament outside of norcal, and that was in socal. (and one in NY 4 years ago when i was on vacation there)

but yeah.

next time we meet we'll DEFINITELY mm





high stakes imo

 

[JPOBS]

edit:disregard post, acquire currency.

 

[Brookman]

Falco's up air is awesome, you trippin.

 

[JPOBS]

yea ruby, you trippin

 

[DJRome]

pp must have killed armada with uair like 20 times in gf

 

[Lightsyde]

is it weird if i use down angled ftilt to poke shields instead of dtilt?

Hell no, it's ****. One of my favorite combos I've ever done was

Laser -> Shield Poke Angled Down Ftilt -> Laser -> Angled Down Ftilt stuffs their jump OOS -> Laser -> FSmash shield poke

Also, it's definitely called the stanky leg fyi.

 

[Rubyiris]

ruby of course i'll mm you, but i dont like those come to az curfew johns. i mean, theyre legit, but i could just as legitimately say my mother doesn't let me travel OOS to tournaments. heck, i've only been to one tournament outside of norcal, and that was in socal. (and one in NY 4 years ago when i was on vacation there)

but yeah.

next time we meet we'll DEFINITELY mm





high stakes imo

If you're still playing in early-mid 2012 I'll hit you up.

we should def chill afterward too. i think we'd get along. =]

yea ruby, you trippin

What am I tripping about? Lol.

@Bolt.

I see you lurkin'. Heard you got ***** by my boy Nicknyte lol.

 

[Druggedfox]

Hypothetical long term MMs; get at me everyone I may our may not ever get to play ;D

 

[bolt.]

Haha yeah I got 2-0ed by his luigi, but the second game was really close. =) It was the set I enjoyed most, that's for sure.

 

[Kira-]

Who does better against Falco? Marth or Sheik

 

[JPOBS]

sheik in my opinion.

to elaborate, i think sheiks combos are more devastating because theres less less options you have to break out of them. Marth's combo, there are a TON of tricks to do with various types of DI's and buffers that allow you to escape if you can do it. Sheik's combo have much less options for escape assuming she's doing it right and almost alwas lead to you either being off stage or dead. marths combos are easier at lower percents but sheiks are better/easier at higher percents.

also, sheik can actually kill outright. marth has trouble finishing at high percents outside of random fsmash.

oh and sheiks OOS game is better imo

 

[MacD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRpg58a8qkE

falco vs peach

my suggestion is only watch the first match

especially that last combo on the first match

 

[Wenbobular]

A combo of ghetto proportions
._.

 

[Rubyiris]

sheik in my opinion.

to elaborate, i think sheiks combos are more devastating because theres less less options you have to break out of them. Marth's combo, there are a TON of tricks to do with various types of DI's and buffers that allow you to escape if you can do it. Sheik's combo have much less options for escape assuming she's doing it right and almost alwas lead to you either being off stage or dead. marths combos are easier at lower percents but sheiks are better/easier at higher percents.

also, sheik can actually kill outright. marth has trouble finishing at high percents outside of random fsmash.

oh and sheiks OOS game is better imo

I agree with you for a change. I'm going to expand on this to say that I feel that Falco combos Marth far harder than he does Sheik. Sheik is at that weight where Falcos' throws do not have guaranteed follow-ups. Sheik can jump out of uthrow similar to how characters like Luigi/Mario/Doc/Samus/DK can jump out of Fox's uthrow.

Bthrow is a 50/50
Dthrow is 50/50
fthrow is fthrow.

Falco's generic dair > shine/utilt stuff is about equally as effective on either character, so Falco having the benefit of a more guaranteed grab follow-up game vs Marth makes damaging, and actually killing Marth far easier, combined with Marth's easier to escape combos, and weaker OOS game.

I'd outright say Falco > Marth Sheik > Falco.

 

[DJRome]

so falco>falco?

 

[Rubyiris]

falco is falcos worst match up. seriously. falco ***** himself harder than any other character in the cast. it is VERY silly.

 

[DJRome]

generally true

btw, anyone have a % of how often falco gets gimped from bthrow from sheik?

 

[Rubyiris]

at high/top level play, very rarely. It's mostly a low/mid level occurrence, but since most smash players are really ****ty, I'd say 50~60% of the time?

 

[Lightsyde]

Before you realize that you're supposed to jump backwards and react when recovering: A lot.

After you realize that: Not so much.

 

[Rubyiris]

Before you realize that you're supposed to jump backwards and react when recovering: A lot.

After you realize that: Not so much.

You can also DI in and shinestall recover. Shinestall > airdodge is more difficult to react to as Sheik IMO.

 

[Lightsyde]

Interesting. Seems like it'll get you trashed for using it too much, but as a mix up, yeah, that would be a strange thing for Sheik to catch. Might have to try that more.

Then again, I normally just don't get near the edge vs Sheik. ;]

 

[JPOBS]

Ruby, I'm almost certain you can in fact combo sheik out of upthrow.
I've done it vs every sheik i've ever played.

she definitely isn't in the class of doc/luigi/samus etc.

but yea, sheik is harder than marth. IDK if she actually wins the matchup tho.

the edge game vs sheik is basically like this, she can't cover both the potential of you going high and the potential of you going low at the same time. The positions she needs to be in or moves she needs to cover one prevent her from covering the other. If she reads your basic recovery (high/low) and you still survive, consider yourself lucky imo.

 

[Rubyiris]

Ruby, I'm almost certain you can in fact combo sheik out of upthrow.
I've done it vs every sheik i've ever played.

she definitely isn't in the class of doc/luigi/samus etc.

but yea, sheik is harder than marth. IDK if she actually wins the matchup tho.

You can but it is far less guaranteed than Marth. It depends on many factors, such as stage position, their DI, if they got hit by the lasers, and where they went when they were hit, what percentage they were at when they were thrown/hit, and if you're anticipating jump/no jump.

Sheik can jump out of lasers not hitting for example, but you can punish her DJ and juggle her.

I just find that Falco's uthrow follow-ups are MORE guaranteed versus Marth than they are versus Sheik.

 

[JPOBS]

hmm, i find the opposite. I almost always get a followup vs sheik, whereas vs marth its stupid and depends more on all those factors you listed.

 

[Rubyiris]

I wonder if I'm being too slow versus Sheik then.

 

[JPOBS]

you might also be right, i just have more practice vs sheik than marth so idk