Falco Discussion Thread

Dr Peepee

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^no need to critique PP, you should know by now...

Me+Axe are notorious for entertainment Falcos....

I understand how you're feeling..... I hope you feel better....

*sigh* seriously don't read.....just think the "worst" and you have a general idea....He's already going through alot as it is... but goin to the thread, and trolling him more about it, isn't gonna help you/anyone else get $$ or anything...it's only gonna add to the cause....Im not saying he isn't wrong cuz he is indeed... however, just think about it... what can you do? Cool a small claims court? You're gonna spend more money winning your case then any of the winners getting money anyway.......

*sigh* anyway <3 you PP
Ummm there's no need to belittle your playstyle because you play differently lol. I'm aware that both of you play like you do because you enjoy it, but you guys also make it work. Who am I to say that that is wrong?

I respect that we won't ever agree with the other's style as a whole though haha. =p

I have been playing so sloppy and clanky lately.. :(

I hate this phase.. I usually pick up a random side character to get out of it.. but I have pretty much gone through everybody by now lol.

Maybe I need a new controller.

ugghhh how do I beat the falco stickyness.
Well maybe you should practice on your own more, or think through your movements more when you play so you can get into a flow of the game more. If you also aren't enjoying playing that may be a problem as well and may just require a break or some new inspiration to help you break out of this slump.

Hard to stack it up with no money lolol

Sorry, mabye that was in poor taste, but seriously....

Next time i see plank im gonna stab him with a sharpened toothbrush, what a *****


I know you are going to say not to stab him becuase you forgive him and are at peace with it and are captian america, but someone's gotta get stabbed, so i'll just do it on the dl.... just walk behind him in a crowded metro station, stab him and walk away like nothing happened....

I don't know if you have ever played assassin's creed, but in theory it would look like that.





I really don't want to go to jail again, so if anyone from the government is reading this, i'm joking, i love plank and would never stab him, if fact he has inspired me to start hosting tournies :)
I'm in a better mood today so I could actually smile at the joke XD

Yo DrPP.

What can I do against Peach/Puffs with my grabs? Uthrow Uair?

Also, any oither general MU advice against Peach/Puff would be much appreciated :)
If you get a Uthrow Uair on Peach you get a medal. That doesn't happen too much past fairly low percents(I'd say past 20% you probably won't get it or much of anything off a Uthrow on a Peach that DIs Uthrow anywhere). Any aerial is good that you can get away with at low %s though(ideally not Dair because that's easiest to Nair out of plus she could get out of stun before you move ends). Uthrow is more positional a lot of the time and you just have to **** Peach for being so high up with Bairs/Nairs from FH/DJ/delayed DJ/shenanigans. Throwing her off of the stage is cool too if you know how to keep moving and scare her into a position that's good for you(like the edge or airdodging or something). Dthrow can be great, especially on a platform, but that could be platform canceled so keep that in mind(I doubt many people would see that coming though).

Puff you can catch her DI on Uthrow a lot since she's so light it's tough to react to the throw. If you can, hit that BIT with a Dair off Uthrow. Opens up a TON of options that I don't get to play Hbox enough to figure out(yay videos though!). Never hit an Upthrow Bair in my life though so I'd keep that in mind.

General stuff:

Trading with Peach sucks and is almost never worth it. Don't jab her pretty much ever. Challenging the float is usually a bad idea but it's okay to get crazy and surprise them once every so often. Keeps them from cutting you off all of the time. Grounded Peach is what you need to fight, or Peach floating but not a little above the ground(not on her terms).

Watch Puff jump/Bair patterns and learn when you can and can't move during them. WD OOS is a godsend. Using platforms is brilliant and makes puff work hard with that limited horizontal mobility. Don't laser too much when puff is floating because then she'll probably just hit you.

Good players don't miss techs and don't usually tech in place....

On the plank thing. It's not his fault but. If I needed payout i'd say he owes me $....
Missing techs can be done to surprise people or they could be caught offguard.

Don't generalize like that.

Ya if puff dis up or behind you can't combo, but if the di in front, it looks like you can pick your aerial
yeah something like this I think LOL I need to watch my hbox matches <.<
 

Dr Peepee

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Motivation and Improvement(particularly at the top)

I'm going to write mostly about me here since this was supposed to be another blog thing I did, but I think I can extend this to those of you reading as well. I really should just write this junk instead of bs'ing before the point though

ANYWAY


Another thing I think about somewhat often is how I'm going to feel once I'm firmly cemented at the top(should I get there). I feel as though my motivation that got me to where I will be(the desire to be the best+beat those who prove a threat/have beaten me before) won't be enough to keep me pushing once I get there. I have always relied on what I decided I would call "salt fuel" to keep me motivated(to prove haters wrong or beat someone else). This started when I couldn't beat LoZR, then it moved to Tope and Scar when they beat me at HERB1, then Jman at HERB 2, then Lambchops at Munkaid(who I never really got to redeem myself against but oh well partly my own fault), then Axe and Lucky from Pound 4, then Hbox(and kinda m2k) until RoM3 lol, then Mango for wgf/after pound 5 with amsah/armada coming in for pound 5 itself. I could always nail down someone I wanted to work on and watch videos of myself getting ***** to work on improving. Now, I can still use this salt fuel when I see people say that I need to beat Hbox again or my win vs Armada wasn't legit. What happens if I can learn to continually beat these people and eventually Mango too(he's not going to try to improve to put up a fight, we've talked about this, but he will be there to push me for a good while)?

Ken always had people nipping at his heels, and so did M2K after a short while. Mango put himself into a tier of his own though, and I worry that I could become, not necessarily so far ahead, but consistently first enough so that there's no more salt fuel to keep me going(especially if everyone wanted me to lose). What should I use to motivate myself then? Enjoyment of spiting the haters? Seems too malicious but it's possible. Maybe my enjoyment of the game will allow me to continue being creative, but that's highly ideological and may not really give me the results I want. Not to mention, I will no longer have a Mango template to base the metagame off of, everything new will have to come straight from my own head. There will need to be lots of fuel to continually do for me what he is able to do naturally I believe.

Who knows though? Perhaps I am being overly negative and things can work themselves out. I think I should at least be prepared though in case they don't. ***And if anyone reading is wondering, I'm not jumping the gun on being the consistent best, I know I have to prove it still, but I'm thinking ahead at the moment, which there is never any harm in doing.***


Ah well, that's all I know to think on this for now. I wouldn't mind hearing some opinions on this though.




As for how this can apply to more people.....

I have always said that I watched videos and thought about Melee on my own a ton+experimented a lot to get to where I am today. But specifics are always nice. I would watch a video of mine, take every instance I got hit and attempt to understand why I got hit and what I could do to fix it. Usually it boiled down to me trying to punish something I couldn't at a certain spacing or getting into bad patterns based on limited matchup knowledge or just not having enough confidence/flow in my game. Melee is almost always about fixing situations I messed up in(trying to Nair into Sheik's run off Fair from a platform at slightly too far spacing) and how I can condition the opponent to make the same ones work in my favor(WD OOS makes Hbox's Bair traps much more manageable because he has to adjust his spacing as a very basic example) or how I can avoid some altogether(Nair closer to Marth so he can't shield grab as easily or something) to me. If I go deep enough I actually evolve my game into making myself harder to fight against(but that's a post for another day) but base level wrong fixing is amazing for videos. Once I have that knowledge, then I figure out how to move/think in order to beat every possible situation that arises from the one(s) I got punished in and it just turns out to be whatever style I end up using for the most part.

I guess what I'm suggesting with all of that is you can get a lot and even change your playstyle out of one set/a few different games. Don't let your circumstances limit you from improvement if you have videos and drive at least(drive is super important and you can make do without videos but it's harder imo). Just focus on your goals and you can improve. =)
 

Rubyiris

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PP,

haters gonna hate. don't try to head off the 'falco is broken' **** at the pass, just **** everyone with falco. if you get to the point where you're bored of running people over, switch characters, but don't do it to appease people. you worked hard to get where you are and you earned it.


anyway.

so.

Rubyiris was banned a few weeks ago, comes back, and is now a better player, nicer, and not starting **** all the time? Is this like a new person? what happened??
I was banned like 3 times, actually, and I started getting WAY better after DGDTJ lol.

Also I'm not really the one who starts ****, it's jpobs, merkuri, and brookman who usually entice me to say something really assholish after they incorrectly interpreted some aspect of one of my posts.
 

AvengerAngel

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General stuff:

Trading with Peach sucks and is almost never worth it. Don't jab her pretty much ever. Challenging the float is usually a bad idea but it's okay to get crazy and surprise them once every so often. Keeps them from cutting you off all of the time. Grounded Peach is what you need to fight, or Peach floating but not a little above the ground(not on her terms).
Uhm I don't get it. You mean you should challenge them when they're very high in their float? Can you post any video examples?

Also your posts are awesome <33
 

Dr Peepee

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You know that Peach can FH float and lasers can't hit her right? Well if you force her to float when she isn't choosing that height or something similar to it to float then it's much easier to get under her and hit her/scare her into not committing.

If this doesn't make sense I'll pray that I made Armada do this once at least lol if not Mango most likely did it a lot so I'll get a link if need be.
 

Rubyiris

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Uhm I don't get it. You mean you should challenge them when they're very high in their float? Can you post any video examples?

Also your posts are awesome <33
sorry to self-plug, but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=2m11s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=2m37s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=5m44s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=7m10s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=8m00s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=11m22s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx7cakq6XAU#t=11m25s

in general, these are just good examples of ****** peach's float when she's not floating @ a height she wants to be.
 

Rubyiris

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by screwing with the timing of your FF or B hitting a FH or DJ laser could of course hit it, but I know what you mean, it can be awkward and counterproductive to try to shoot them at that height.
if they're at that height because you forced them to, and you're close enough, you're better off hitting them with an aerial, or countering their nair/fair with turnaround utilt.
 

Rubyiris

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idk why but i've always had good success with utilt. *shrug*

I just like to fj nair/bair them most of the time tho. No real followup but its safe as ****.
 

Rubyiris

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nah i even hit light with that ****, but I hardly ever play him. he lives a little over 100 miles away from me when he's in az, and right now he's in CO.

have you tried wavedash > utilt vs that ish? its kinda impractical since you can just bair instead, but it's cool looking and has better followups.
 

Divinokage

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How to stay motivated as a champion.. hm.. interesting.. Well firstly, I know for sure many people would want your spot so in order to consistently defeat them then you'll have to stay above them at all times.. A good motivation could be also that you may want to be the most legendary smasher of all time. I mean look you already are a great guy and you are really cool, a rolemodel... Captain America, etc. lol. You can set the true example of what a champion can be.

Also, I mean it's quite clear that you play smash for the love too, why does one need to stop if you enjoy it a lot? You might be able to see things that others can't and apply these things to your daily life too. I guess for now that's what I have to say to that.
 

trahhSTEEZY

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yeah i'd see getting to the top as a relief, no more working for something for years and years which can easily add stress. now you're there, i'd enjoy it for what it was while at the same time, staying prepared.
 

V3ctorMan

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Ummm there's no need to belittle your playstyle because you play differently lol. I'm aware that both of you play like you do because you enjoy it, but you guys also make it work. Who am I to say that that is wrong?

I respect that we won't ever agree with the other's style as a whole though haha. =p
You're freaking awesome man!

<3

We definetely need to play more. Both Falco dittos and I'd still be honored to play you w/my Yoshi.....if you wouldn't mind? <3 :)
 

AvengerAngel

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Lol it almost made me more confused than I was before x)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSwD8Exu4Jg

Is the float @ 0.17-0.19 the one that Falco is supposed to attack? Or the one @ 3.41-3.43

If I didn't get you wrong, you're suggesting to attack Peach when she's almost at a FH height but not a COMPLETE FH, because that would be too high. But that's what I usually do and I end up getting ***** by Peach's ridicolous priority. I have an easier time attacking her when she's floating really close to the ground, but it seems to me that you're saying she has the advantage in that case. I dunno if I got you wrong or if I'm just playing the match-up the wrong way xP
 

JPOBS

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I agree with Mogwai about the Uptilt vs peaches fair thing. its great when you're under her, but when she gets a good horizontal spacing, uptilt causes more headache than its worth.
or it just trades. I hate trading with peach.

when peach is at that height where the shl won't hit, i personally just ignore her and don't challenge until she comes the fack down
 

FoxLisk

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so today i just played with the irish mafia and $mike for the first time. I did surprisingly well against mafia's peach but i don't understand how to beat falcon.

I find that whenever he's at nair spacing he nairs, how do I beat that? (not every time, cause he's too good a player for that, but frequently). I don't have the time/space to laser, and he spaces it well enough that CC stuff is hard to pull off. I try just nairing towards him but that loses brutally to, like, shield, because I have to nair early to beat it out. What other good options do I have there?

I'm sure there are other things but I think that's the situation that I got messed up by the most times.
 

Brookman

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it's not falcon that is causing you trouble and you shouldn't look at it from a character vs. character perspective. Mike is a really good player and you just need to elevate your play to his level.

From my experience playing vs. him, he is really patient with his dash dancing and he has really quick reactions when approached or presented with an opening.


honestly, just work on your laser game, space him out with back airs and don't play into his dash dance/grab.

and don't jump into his up tilt at the edge. ... >_>
 

Dr Peepee

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Lol it almost made me more confused than I was before x)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSwD8Exu4Jg

Is the float @ 0.17-0.19 the one that Falco is supposed to attack? Or the one @ 3.41-3.43

If I didn't get you wrong, you're suggesting to attack Peach when she's almost at a FH height but not a COMPLETE FH, because that would be too high. But that's what I usually do and I end up getting ***** by Peach's ridicolous priority. I have an easier time attacking her when she's floating really close to the ground, but it seems to me that you're saying she has the advantage in that case. I dunno if I got you wrong or if I'm just playing the match-up the wrong way xP
Neither of those are what I was suggesting but you CAN attack better than if Peach were a tad bit lower from that angle.

I'm pretty sure I was referring to when you have Peach flying up(like after an Upthrow or combo or something or recovery yeah) and she's not floating where she would prefer to be. That tends to help a lot. Those time stamps were Peach floating on her own terms when and where she wanted to.

I agree with Mogwai about the Uptilt vs peaches fair thing. its great when you're under her, but when she gets a good horizontal spacing, uptilt causes more headache than its worth.
or it just trades. I hate trading with peach.

when peach is at that height where the shl won't hit, i personally just ignore her and don't challenge until she comes the fack down
Just don't let her always take the whole stage when she does this and yeah I agree.

so today i just played with the irish mafia and $mike for the first time. I did surprisingly well against mafia's peach but i don't understand how to beat falcon.

I find that whenever he's at nair spacing he nairs, how do I beat that? (not every time, cause he's too good a player for that, but frequently). I don't have the time/space to laser, and he spaces it well enough that CC stuff is hard to pull off. I try just nairing towards him but that loses brutally to, like, shield, because I have to nair early to beat it out. What other good options do I have there?

I'm sure there are other things but I think that's the situation that I got messed up by the most times.
ahhhh my boy is getting his name out there

My first suggestion is to wait, even if only for a moment. You can learn a lot in that time frame if you watch more.

uh, best falcon>best sheik.

metagame son

:)

and im going fox
you might as well be theo goin for all this attention
 

Rubyiris

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i gotta say u thinking ur good gives me a louder chuckle

edit: same goes for u too i suppose kevin
I am good though. :)

Ranked in one of the best states in the US, plus watch any recent video of me, and pretty much anybody who knows me will vouch.

If you wana beat MM, come to az, but you'll be losing your money anyways. =]
 

Sion

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good stuff chok

has anyone been playing with dair -> no tech/tech inplace -> dtilt? i've been liking it as a killing move against more floaty characters recently

idk if it's been discussed already, though. i don't lurk enough
 

FoxLisk

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it's not falcon that is causing you trouble and you shouldn't look at it from a character vs. character perspective. Mike is a really good player and you just need to elevate your play to his level.

From my experience playing vs. him, he is really patient with his dash dancing and he has really quick reactions when approached or presented with an opening.


honestly, just work on your laser game, space him out with back airs and don't play into his dash dance/grab.

and don't jump into his up tilt at the edge. ... >_>
haha i didnt really mean to phrase it that way, I know that Mike is really good and I'm going to be losing for a while. It's just also true that I'm bad against falcon, because I've never gotten to practice much with a good falcon. I figure shoring up my matchup knowledge is a good first step. and thanks for the insight (you too, PP). I'll try to be more patient next time.
 

Mahone

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haha i didnt really mean to phrase it that way, I know that Mike is really good and I'm going to be losing for a while. It's just also true that I'm bad against falcon, because I've never gotten to practice much with a good falcon. I figure shoring up my matchup knowledge is a good first step. and thanks for the insight (you too, PP). I'll try to be more patient next time.
Damn take that Krnred225 and JANK
 

JPOBS

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$mike is damn good for real, played him at rom3 that was fun.

i don't like falcon vs falco tho its hard, you have to be really good with lasers, watch out for his bs tricks (nair over/raptorboost under), and you die at 50% from any launcher into knee +edgeguard. fox on the other hand beats falcon much easier imo, or atleast, i do better vs top falcons with fox than falco.
 

Divinokage

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good stuff chok

has anyone been playing with dair -> no tech/tech inplace -> dtilt? i've been liking it as a killing move against more floaty characters recently

idk if it's been discussed already, though. i don't lurk enough
Well that's assuming you get them in the air but I'm also pretty sure Dair to dtilt combos from the ground too. I personally like it and I use it.
 
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