Falco Discussion Thread

Dr Peepee

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#1
(Motivation and Improvement): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12321779&postcount=5202

(Pound 5 stuff and more Motivation/General Advice): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12281679&postcount=5024

(My...Return? and some semi-current thoughts): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13222659&postcount=8902

(Mentality when Losing): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13225015&postcount=8940

(Mango): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13259513&postcount=9247

(Trait Influence and Approaching): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13305125&postcount=9460

(Falco Techniques I'm working on/discussing as of 9/22/11): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13397157&postcount=9936

(Approaching again and my opinion on Fox' tier placement): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13591750&postcount=10588

(Psychological Advantages and Disadvantages of Falco, and how to handle them): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13598472&postcount=10615

(Emotional Play): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13637792&postcount=10862

(RoM4 Write-up): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13704920&postcount=11388

(Apex Preparation): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13781865&postcount=12311

(Critique of Dashizwiz vs Eggm at Apex2012 game 1):

-Negatives: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13959221&postcount=14295

-Positives: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13967308&postcount=14321

(Handling Nerves: Meditation and Mentality): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14248710&postcount=15733

(Brief Laser Spacing Post): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14253799&postcount=15749

(Teams post): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14278391&postcount=15840

(Regaining Stage Control/How I Solve Problems): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14379620&postcount=16109

(Dealing with Nerves): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14704270&postcount=17348

(How to Practice on Your Own[Updated 8/7/12]): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14739329&postcount=17539

(Falco Full Hop): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15097372&postcount=19083

(Kings of Cali, and a look back on everything post Pound 5): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15110613&postcount=19114

(Lasers, a brief overview): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15153786&postcount=19206


2017 edit:

Arguing against powershield being an issue for Falco, as well as arguments against Falco's ability to win tournaments solo: https://smashboards.com/threads/falco-discussion-thread.256826/page-601#post-21810478

Ginger on SDI'ing Falcos combos(discussion follows): https://smashboards.com/threads/falco-discussion-thread.256826/page-602#post-21814459
Update with tauKhan's extra information on this mechanic: https://smashboards.com/threads/falco-discussion-thread.256826/page-602#post-21816201
 
Last edited:

LAX_

Smash Apprentice
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Nov 10, 2009
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BEAST COAST--MD
#2
Yeah, the thread title is silly. Any suggestions for it? =p
How about Dr Peepee: Falco stuff

lol :)

Okay, so now you now you to laser Falcon and (sort of) how to deal with his answers to them. I'll go into what you want to do when you finally approach now.
i'm not one of those grammar losers but for such a well written guide you should fix that lol.

GOOD STUFF DUDE.
really, i just learned a ton about falcon. while i would **** on stages like FD, on any other stage it would be close because of those darn tech chases->knees on patforms and stuff.
awesome, awesome guide.
maybe someday a marth one? :p
 

Dr Peepee

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#3
Changed the title until I get another suggestion. XD

Fixed that stupid error. I come back to my writing in between fits of spacing out sometimes and that happens haha.

I can do a Marth one sometime.
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
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#6
Yeah we only got a few matches in this time. Felt like you weren't warmed up either. :(

Say for example I dair shine Falcon at 0 under one of Yoshi's platforms. Should I:

-Sh shine waveland to something?

-quick dj dair onto platform into another move (does this even work?)

-uair? lol


Sometimes I just don't know how to keep combos going. haha
 

Dr Peepee

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#7
Lol I was still adjusting to the fact that Foxes didn't approach(never been out of the south before =p). I have a lot to learn about fighting Fox, but I think I can only get better at it. You're legit. =)


As for your question, I would say you should shine waveland onto the platform. The follow up is largely DI dependent though. If they DI away on both shines, then you'll want to Uptilt as Falcon falls into your range. If you wait until Falcon comes out of stun, then you can catch his double dump as he uses it and Fsmash to Dair/Fsmash edgeguard to finish.

If he DIs towards the middle platform, you'll want to run off of the side platform and double dump double laser so you can catch Falcon's jump. If you think he won't jump(because you've punished his jump with this a lot lately and conditioned him not to jump), then it's best to dash into SH double jump waveland onto the main platform and I think you could get a turnaround uptilt on Falcon.
Your other alternative in both cases for the middle platform is to go to the bottom and cut off his falling angle to set up for a Bair out of Falcon's falling aerial or a chance to double jump shine Falcon as soon as he lands onto a platform.
 

Igcoris

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
434
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California, B.C.
#8
If you do more than one waveshine on Falcon's shield he an grab you, but he can also stomp OOS. If that happens, you will take hard damage or lose a stock vs a high level Falcon. If you can get behind a Falcon and pressure him, you will always get a roll. Shiz has said this before and I have tested it and it's best to shield pressure from the rear if possible. I don't know how wise it is to always try to get behind Falcon, but if you do it some then you can expect a roll away and punish it hard. Mixing in laser+shine is **** for shield pressure too.
With my experience against Falcon, the roll almost always happens as you say, but what happens he's facing to the left and I'm pressuring the right side of his shield (behind falcon) and he rolls towards the left? The best I've done is shine -> jump -> laser pressure behind their shield then use lasers to follow the roll, but somehow the falcon always gets away.

Also, what's your opinion on multishines vs falcon? I can do them on a shield at least 2/3 times, but I find it leaves me vulnerable to the roll.

edit: great guide, Falcon always seemed to be a fuzzy matchup for me, despite all falco's advantages in this matchup.
 

Dr Peepee

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#10
With my experience against Falcon, the roll almost always happens as you say, but what happens he's facing to the left and I'm pressuring the right side of his shield (behind falcon) and he rolls towards the left? The best I've done is shine -> jump -> laser pressure behind their shield then use lasers to follow the roll, but somehow the falcon always gets away.

Also, what's your opinion on multishines vs falcon? I can do them on a shield at least 2/3 times, but I find it leaves me vulnerable to the roll.

edit: great guide, Falcon always seemed to be a fuzzy matchup for me, despite all falco's advantages in this matchup.
Once you get your shield pressure started, start to walk towards Falcon's shield out of a waveshine. He'll probably flip out and roll away and you can get a clean Fsmash. He might start trying to stomp/Bair OOS to mix in with his rolls, so just mix in Uptilt pressure to beat this.

You could also try to just laser to grab if all else fails. If nothing else, you're cutting down Falcon's shield and increasing the likelihood of shield stabbing with a Dair, which gets you a combo. Even if you don't get a shield stab, then you know Falcon can't shield because it won't do him much good, so it's helpful to realize that Falcon will be worrying about this and start attacking him.

Mixing in 2/3 multishines can be a good mixup for waveshining behind Falcon's shield(remember he tries to grab the waveshine). It's not really necessary when you can shine+JC grab and punish Falcon(though it's admittedly not as great of a reward as a shine, but it's much more likely to succeed).


Thanks for the complement!



Edit: Thanks Alukard! <3
 

Igcoris

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#11
Once you get your shield pressure started, start to walk towards Falcon's shield out of a waveshine. He'll probably flip out and roll away and you can get a clean Fsmash. He might start trying to stomp/Bair OOS to mix in with his rolls, so just mix in Uptilt pressure to beat this.

You could also try to just laser to grab if all else fails. If nothing else, you're cutting down Falcon's shield and increasing the likelihood of shield stabbing with a Dair, which gets you a combo. Even if you don't get a shield stab, then you know Falcon can't shield because it won't do him much good, so it's helpful to realize that Falcon will be worrying about this and start attacking him.

Mixing in 2/3 multishines can be a good mixup for waveshining behind Falcon's shield(remember he tries to grab the waveshine). It's not really necessary when you can shine+JC grab and punish Falcon(though it's admittedly not as great of a reward as a shine, but it's much more likely to succeed).


Thanks for the complement!



Edit: Thanks Alukard! <3
I laughed pretty hard at the bolded part. Anyways, I've never really thought of mixing up with shine grabs/laser grabs until I read this. I've always tried to shield pressure with multishines/dairs no matter what thinking it's the best way to go. I'll start paying real close attention to what I'm doing now. Thanks again!
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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#12
good stuff I thought of this off the top of my head

you could call it... dr. peepee tellin you how it's done, falco now with more lasers, dr. peepee's teaching you about ****, random ****, I bet you won't read this, or maybe this dr. peepee falco read.

If you use one please put this at the end of your first post. "Play as pichu bought to you by ICG"
 

bolt.

Smash Ace
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#17
"Dr Peepee's office: I know more about falco than I do urine!"
You can mess with it, but I thought it was a good start for the threads name. =D

Nice info. I learned a lot, now all I need is a falcon player to test this against. Marth info would be really nice too. Thanks Dr. pp.
 

Dr Peepee

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#18
I updated the title because I'm punny like that.

Glad to help bros. Apparently you all want to hear about Marth next, and that M2K experience would come in really handy here haha. I'll get to work on it fairly soon, no worries.

I'll also try to make this a little more divided so it's easier to find what you want to read about.
 

Dr Peepee

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#24
Dude my title rapes no hate. =p

I'll either do Marth soon or I'll talk to Mogwai a lot and do a big update all at once.


I guess this thread can also be a sort of Q and A if anyone cares. I just want it to be useful haha.
 

Dr Peepee

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#26
Funny because you disagree or because of the way I wrote it? Lol <3 my gun.

Jiggz....ugh. I don't know a lot about this matchup, but I can tell you that you want to laser when Puff is on the ground or across the stage from you. Once Puff gets halfway to you(halfway across the stage, whatever), stop shooting. You have to start getting your self into a position to Bair. This involves lots of patience and.....a little movement I guess, but mostly patience. Bair beats everything Jiggz has(except maybe a perfectly spaced Bair, but if you get to her quickly enough that shouldn't be happening).

When puff lands, you have to try to keep her grounded. Puff's shield blows but her OOS options do not. If she's not close enough for you to aerial at her easily, then shoot lasers a little above her shield as you approach so that when she tries to jump away she'll get knocked back onto the ground.

When you get in close, you want to look for grabs at lower percents because upthrow gives you a little bit to work with. Chops likes to Fthrow everyone, and if you can guess if puff retreats or counterattacks then you can react accordingly. Retreat=chase with lasers. Counterattack=Dair(since I think you'll still be over her at lower percents).
I like to Uthrow. Usually leads to a Uair, but it can be a Bair or even Dair depending on DI, stage location, and what throw/followup you have been using recently. Get creative here because you need to make the most of whatever throw you decide to use.

Everyone at RoM2 was yelling at me to laser approach to Dtilt to kill puff early. I'm gonna go ahead and suggest it to you guys as well. I haven't killed puff early yet so it's worth testing at the least.

Dair to Dair is really good on puff because it puts her back onto the ground where you want her.


There's a little more to it but that's enough for now. I'll do ICs later.
 
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#30
Funny because you disagree or because of the way I wrote it? Lol <3 my gun.

Jiggz....ugh. I don't know a lot about this matchup, but I can tell you that you want to laser when Puff is on the ground or across the stage from you. Once Puff gets halfway to you(halfway across the stage, whatever), stop shooting. You have to start getting your self into a position to Bair. This involves lots of patience and.....a little movement I guess, but mostly patience. Bair beats everything Jiggz has(except maybe a perfectly spaced Bair, but if you get to her quickly enough that shouldn't be happening).

When puff lands, you have to try to keep her grounded. Puff's shield blows but her OOS options do not. If she's not close enough for you to aerial at her easily, then shoot lasers a little above her shield as you approach so that when she tries to jump away she'll get knocked back onto the ground.

When you get in close, you want to look for grabs at lower percents because upthrow gives you a little bit to work with. Chops likes to Fthrow everyone, and if you can guess if puff retreats or counterattacks then you can react accordingly. Retreat=chase with lasers. Counterattack=Dair(since I think you'll still be over her at lower percents).
I like to Uthrow. Usually leads to a Uair, but it can be a Bair or even Dair depending on DI, stage location, and what throw/followup you have been using recently. Get creative here because you need to make the most of whatever throw you decide to use.

Everyone at RoM2 was yelling at me to laser approach to Dtilt to kill puff early. I'm gonna go ahead and suggest it to you guys as well. I haven't killed puff early yet so it's worth testing at the least.

Dair to Dair is really good on puff because it puts her back onto the ground where you want her.


There's a little more to it but that's enough for now. I'll do ICs later.
#2 was funny, because you said to keep lasering when he powershields, so that they don't build confidence. I completely agree, but it made me chuckle a bit when I read it to myself, so I'd say it's funny because it's true.

Also, thank you for the advice. I'm definitely going to work on it.
 

Mogwai

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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to
#31
Everyone at RoM2 was yelling at me to laser approach to Dtilt to kill puff early. I'm gonna go ahead and suggest it to you guys as well. I haven't killed puff early yet so it's worth testing at the least.
dtilting puff is tricky cause she rarely stays grounded and it's relatively high risk for a tilt (longest duration of Falco's tilts). I'd only really recommend it when you can CC a falling aerial from her or you're shooting high and think you'll catch her jumping out of her shield into one of your lasers, but even then your timing and spacing have to be spot on to dtilt before she can jump again to get out of range and punish your dtilt.
 
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#37
shoot him, when he commits to moving forward, SHFFL nair and death combo. don't approach when he can jump backwards and fair. don't lose game 1 cause then he'll take you to brinstar :(.
You have problems with Falco on brinstar? I just make sure Ganon can't safely control the top platform, and then make sure he can't get off without jumping into something.
 
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