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F.L.U.D.D. combo (and stuff on cape)

DKpunch!

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
63
I unfortunately don't have a video, however I learned a VERY useful technique with the FLUDD.


When you release the water, you can move the FLUDD up and down. Assuming that you have a full tank of water stored, you can pull off a small combo. It's very simple- FLUDD to (insert attack here.) I understand that this combo was probably in everyone's mind, however there is a certain way it must be done.



While your opponent is approaching you from the air, about to perform an aerial against you, you unload half of your tank straight forward. Right when your enemy gets close, tilt the control stick up to push your enemy SLIGHTLY out of range with the rest of the FLUDD. Your enemy should finish his attack right in front of you. Unfortunately, this does not work on all characters, such as Ike, due to aerial range.

The trick is to be able to hit your opponent with the FLUDD while he's in the air, but time it so that you finish pumping out the FLUDD before your opponent hits the ground. There is a slight lag time between finishing the FLUDD and your next attack, and you want to get that next attack off as soon right when your opponent lands for best effect.



I'm no professional at it, but I managed to do it twice to my brother just now... he's incredibly pissed off, as he seems to think that I've been smashing him "accidentally" while he "for some reason keeps running into [my] smashes." I think I just made him mad that I found a use for FLUDD ;)


*******************************************


More on FLUDD:

FLUDD/cape are my favorite edgeguarding moves. Some characters need that little bit of movement while recovering... FLUDD denies them. Seriously, when you guys get the game, you'll come to love FLUDD as an edgeguarder.



More on the cape:

It seems that whenever you cape an airborne floaty character (such as Toon Link,) they'll not only make a 180 degree turn, but get knocked back quite bit. Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and other floaties who are recovering hate the cape.

EDIT: To go more in-depth: When you use the cape on somebody, they tend to be pushed back farther. So, if someone is using a Dsmash on you when you cape them, if they're small they will not hit you with the Dsmash (like they could in melee.)




Brawl comes out soon, this I know. If you remember anything from the boards about the FLUDD, remember that it's like your DK punch; keeping one charged will open up new options for you, and a smart opponent will be forced to play differently. Don't EVER underestimate your cape or the FLUDD, abuse them (along with your fireballs) whenever you see fit.

I hope to see you all online!
 

limitbreak

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
654
Location
NY
Just as you said, a charged FLUDD is just like a charged DK punch. So many possibilities.
 

Half-Split Soul

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,686
Yes, I think that people were a bit hasty to judge F.L.U.D.D. It doesn´t seem like a bad attack at all, it just needs time to master. I´m actually eagerly waiting to see all the tactics and tricks that people learn to do with it.

And about the cape: if it really pushes enemies back a bit, it might limit some of your chances to counter your opponents attacks when used on ground. As we all know, Mario´s range isn´t amazing. But it´s definitely gonna be even more useful in edgeguard than it was in Melee.
 

Mike Hawk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
231
Location
TX
i've been using fludd since i got my Japanese copy and i can say im pretty good with it now, funny you posted this as soon as i got my capture card working, expect some videos tonight.
 

Half-Split Soul

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,686
i've been using fludd since i got my Japanese copy and i can say im pretty good with it now, funny you posted this as soon as i got my capture card working, expect some videos tonight.
Yes, finally some F.L.U.D.D vids in sight!

*staring anticipatingly at the screen*
 

BDawgPHD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
751
that's epic, could this be used as a recovery, since it clearly pushes mario's fat *** when used in midair?
 

Evil E.

Smash Ace
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May 8, 2007
Messages
515
Location
Macon GA
NNID
Elmoyounasty
Good Stuff
Wow.
Mario i mained him in all 3 SSBs he just keeps gettin better.
 

Metal_Doc

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Messages
308
Location
Naples,FL
Wow, I'm impressed. I never thought anyone would actually find a good use for FLUDD.

The changes made to the cape are great.
 

fazares

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
185
very hard...i m still using mario airs to edgeguarding...the only use i have for fludd is for recovery as now....
 

fazares

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
185
the point is to use it when ure very far from the stage then up-b to the ledge...think of the old down-b to up b in ssbm...
 

cHooKay

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
285
Location
Cali
We just need to give fludd more uses until we crack in some kind of discovery. For instance, (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xwcPcy7jN00) I know fludd to cape seems rather basic and expected, but it seriously works pretty good. Also using it as a recovery move is great too, even though the main function of fludd is to simply push things. We just need to keep experimenting. Hopefully we can find another "Yo-Yo" glitch with fludd or something, as soon as I buy the game I'm going to experiment with fludd to the point of insanity! I don't know, anything to make mario masacre happen ya dig? :chuckle:
 

Doomblaze

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
412
Location
Shanghai, China
Honestly, I dont think that the FlUDD is all that useful right now, till like ChooKay said, we find some kind of crazy glitch. Ive been trying it out against my friends and it hasnt helped me at all with edgeguarding. The knockback is very minimal, especially when you DI towards it, and does not stun the opponent, allowing them to dodge out of your combos.
Thats what ive noticed anyway, my mario isnt amazing so dont take my words too seriously, lol.
 

Half-Split Soul

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,686
Future F.L.U.D.D. glitch: when you shoot someone with it, he/she takes the damage and knockback of Mario´s F-smash. Now that´s what I´d like to see...
 

cHooKay

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 9, 2008
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I don't know about you guys, but I think FLUDD works great on characters that float. Against my friend using metaknight, I was able to "slow" his approach with FLUDD when Meta came diagonally from above in front of me. The lag seems reduced when mario finishes hosing, leaving my friend slightly open for a nice upsmash. Also, I'm starting to see the whole recovery thing better. I usually use FLUDD to suprise my openents, landing in places they don't expect. Lastly, try to catch them off gaurd with FLUDD when you're on the middle of the stage, then follow up with a dsmash or a nair/bair. Make sure they're on the ground and your FLUDD is charged for optimal perfomance. (Pretty much don't spam FLUDD, use it as a mind game tool). These are pretty basic and they may not help entirely, but for those who think FLUDD is still lame, try these out for a bit. Hope it helps a little. I'lm still looking for any glitch with FLUDD right now, so far I haven't seen any yet, but i think its possible...
 

drewlynoted

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
56
Location
SoCal
im having trouble with fludd

maybe its cuz i expect so much from it, but when i fludd, it seems not to push that much, or even at all. and the caping afterwards, even if it does turn them around they sill grab the ledge!

maybe its just because that video against ganondorf seems so nicely done and he's like a better character to do this against

(im mainly fighting lucas, zamus, spacies, and snake)
 

Mike Hawk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
231
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TX
made another example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AxG3HX_9GU

its against an amateur ike but it should give you more ideas.
i had a ton of vids saved on my SD card, which a friend borrowed and decided to format without my consent, i'll try to get some of my better crew members to do 1 on 1's so i can make more examples. specially the ones where they are doing an air attack and i use fludd to stall them and then smash them, those are great.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
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I do use Mario, but I never use FLUDD. In Melee, I never used the Mario Tornado either. However, that move is Mario's d-air now, which I use frequently.
 

Half-Split Soul

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
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made another example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AxG3HX_9GU

its against an amateur ike but it should give you more ideas.
i had a ton of vids saved on my SD card, which a friend borrowed and decided to format without my consent, i'll try to get some of my better crew members to do 1 on 1's so i can make more examples. specially the ones where they are doing an air attack and i use fludd to stall them and then smash them, those are great.
That was great! Ike didn´t have any change... F.L.U.D.D.´s best thing seems to be the fact that enemies don´t stagger. No stagger, no change to use recovery again...

I´ve also started thinking about ways to use Mario´s D-b in team matches. So far I´ve gotten the following ideas:

1: Your teammate starts loading smash, you´re far away and enemies come near your teammate stalking for change to hit him after he releases his smash. You use F.L.U.D.D. and push your friend with full-loaded smash against your enemy for surprise attack (extremely situational)

2: Enemy is far abow you and your friend, too far for your midairs to reach. But suddenly you use down-b to give your teammate a boost into his jump and he reaches your enemy and hits with midair! (very situational)

3: Your enemy is recovering, and you must ledgehog quicly. You use F.L.U.D.D. to push your teammate out of stage, allowing him to take control of the edge (rarely useful but flashy)

4: Both you and your friend are falling to your doom. As your last act you use down-b to push your friend to the edge to save him (very very very situational)

5: Your friend is about to get hit by enemy´s midair. You use down-b to slow enemy down (or to push your friend), thus saving your friend (maybe even usable)

I don´t know if any of these actually work, and if they do, they are propably pretty useless or situational (as I´ve written) but though that I could post them up anyway. And just because my ideas suck doesn´t mean that F.L.U.D.D. couldn´t be useful in team battles. Just need to come up with something more creative...
 

fazares

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
185
I do use Mario, but I never use FLUDD. In Melee, I never used the Mario Tornado either. However, that move is Mario's d-air now, which I use frequently.
thats because his new d-air resembles the more effective ssb64 mario down-b than his almost useless ssbm down-b...:-)
 

drewlynoted

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
56
Location
SoCal
i liked how you didn't fully charge the down b and waited to fullly charge and release it

very nice

AUGH WHY CANT I DO THIS
 

Mike Hawk

Smash Journeyman
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Jun 14, 2006
Messages
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i just played a friend online, he plays a nasty fox and an allright lucario, i'll post my skeets on him later.
 

Mac2492

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
78
Hmm... I started off with Ike in this game because Marth wasn't selectable from the start. I ended up liking him A LOT. Later on, I decided to try Mario and was baffled when I tried to use his Down + B.

After looking for information on this move (and drawing a comparison between it and Water Gun) then trying it in battle, I've finally come to LOVE it.

Comparison:
1) Water Gun charges a tad bit faster.
2) Despite how it may seem, both moves shoot about the same amount of water.
3) Water Gun shoots faster and each single shot sends opponents flying farther, but it starts later than F.L.U.D.D.
4) F.L.U.D.D. shoots slower and each single shot doesn't send opponents too far, but it starts earlier than Water Gun
5) Both moves can be directed up or down, even in the air.
6) Water Gun can be tilted up or down more easily. (Not confirmed)
7) Water Gun can be fired before it charges up and it'll turn into a close-range attack. (Does a little over 10% to Mario)
8) Water Gun has more spread, while F.L.U.D.D. tends to stay in a straighter line.
9) Both moves seem to send the opponent equally far if you hit with every drop of water. I'm not sure how this actually works out, since single water squirts from Water Gun send opponents farther than single water squirts from F.L.U.D.D.
10) Neither move does any damage when charged.
11) F.L.U.D.D.'s push back can actually be used quicker than Water Gun because using it before it charges simply results in a smaller spray of water.
As far as I can tell, Water Gun is statistically better than F.L.U.D.D.. It charges faster, sends opponents flying farther, etc... (F.L.U.D.D. shoots earlier, though) Also, Water Gun doubles as a short-range damage attack (use it before it charges). HOWEVER, F.L.U.D.D. is more useful in the end for one reason... The cape. I want to thank the person who suggested a F.L.U.D.D. -> Cape combo. I was doing it the other way around and it wasn't all too useful for edgeguarding. However, it might be useful against novice players because it turns them around. Make the person face the edge, then spray that person off with F.L.U.D.D.. =P

I suggest that you have a fully charged F.L.U.D.D. whenever possible because you WILL get easy kills with it. (Especially against characters that have poor vertical recovery). If you don't have time to charge it, that's fine. You can start charging when your opponent flies off the stage and even finish charging it before they get back (most of the time)!

The two most useful ways to use this move so far are:
Note: A lot of this is recapping what has previously been said. It's geared toward novices, with some tips that MIGHT help better players.

1) Counter-Push
Water Gun and F.L.U.D.D. both send things flying backward, correct? This means that you can counter anything that's thrown at you as long as its velocity isn't high enough to overcome the push back. This means that you can't counter moves like Shiek's needles or Fox's/Falco's/Wolf's Side + B practically. They're just too fast. However, you can counter many, many projectiles and many, many moves. You can push a person using Skull Bash in the opposite direction to keep him/her at bay, but you might actually be better off pushing in the SAME direction to send him flying way off the screen. (If you can manage it) Slow moves like Ike's B attack and Ganondorf's B attack, etc... Can all be taken advantage of. You can push players that use these off the screen with F.L.U.D.D. and before they have a chance to finish. Also, F.L.U.D.D. > Snake's Grenades, while Cape > Snake's Rockets. You can't interchange the two in this case, because F.L.U.D.D. isn't fast enough to push the rocket while the cape doesn't send the grenade flying far enough (fortunately, you have both!). If you ever come across a projectile that doesn't go far enough with the cape, use F.L.U.D.D. to counter it. (You can charge and release it very quickly anyway) Basically... Counter fast moves with your cape, but counter slow moves with F.L.U.D.D. Squirtle doesn't have this versatility, but he can somewhat (not completely) overcome it because his Water Gun charges faster and shoots more violently.


2) Finisher (Edge-Guarding)
You know those times when you and your opponent are already off the screen and you're struggling to actually hit the person? Well... F.L.U.D.D. and Water Gun are the perfect way to end this. They send opponents going FAR back and they're extremely easy to aim. So... if your opponent is near the boundary of a stage, try using F.L.U.D.D. or Water Gun (depending on your character) instead of a smash attack. If both moves are fully charged, Water Gun does better because each spray of water sends opponents farther. If both are uncharged, F.L.U.D.D. might do better because you can use the push back sooner. (An uncharged Water Gun is a close-range damage attack, if you recall)

So... Suppose opponent is off the ledge.

Edge guarding is where F.L.U.D.D. + Cape really shines. Once you get an opponent off the stage, you want that person to stay off the stage. If that person is no longer able to jump but you hit him/her with an attack (besides the cape, Water Gun, and F.L.U.D.D.), that person will regain his/her Up + B move. In many cases, you will end up helping the person if you don't hit him/her far enough with your attack. Thus, you're better off using a move that doesn't give the person his/her third jump again. This is why the Cape is so handy. This is why F.L.U.D.D. and Water Gun are also handy. F.L.U.D.D. is even handier in unison with the cape! Unfortunately, directional influence can neutralize the two moves, which is why you want a fast move like your cape for following up.

If your opponent is just above the edge of the stage (height-wise), try to wait for the player to waste some jumps before doing anything (UNLESS the player is already far away). Otherwise, your cards are already played and the opponent already knows which way to jump to get back. If you shoot this early, you're most likely going to have to use your cape to finish the person off (which is GREAT... if you're not Squirtle.). Preferably, you should start using these low/no damage push back moves after the opponent wastes his/her third jump. At this point, you can nudge him with any one of the three moves and get an easy kill.

HOWEVER, things aren't always this easy because players (like my little brother -,-) like to stay high and float more towards the center of the stage whenever possible. You have to JUMP to get these people. If they're off the ledge but high up, you have almost no chance of getting a kill with F.L.U.D.D. or Water Gun alone because directional influence is enough to bring the person back. Basically... Players can cancel the push back with directional influence, but they can't go forward through it! The only reason you can't kill someone who's high up using Water Gun and F.L.U.D.D. alone is because these moves stop spraying water after a short while. Once you stop shooting water, the player can begin moving towards the stage again.

So... Enough of this F.L.U.D.D./Water Gun only stuff. Both moves are useful on there own, but now I want to start getting into why I highly prefer Mario for getting these kinds of kills. The cape, as I've mentioned, is what makes F.L.U.D.D. more useful than Water Gun. Too many people think that it's an either or situation. You either use your cape or you use F.L.U.D.D.. This is why people think that F.L.U.D.D. is terrible. Think about it for a second... The two moves both have a similar push back function, but they're completely different in every other way. Off the top of my head, here are some basic differences:

1) The cape has a shorter range.
2) The cape is faster.
3) F.L.U.D.D. requires some charging, but also functions better when charged.
4) F.L.U.D.D. can be directed up and down, while the cape only goes to the side.
5) The cape turns opponents around [important].
6) F.L.U.D.D. propels you backwards when used. (You can use this to knock someone out and recover at the same time)

Why would you stick with one of these? The F.L.U.D.D. -> Cape idea is definitely a step in the right direction, but it can get even better. Earlier, I mentioned that Cape -> F.L.U.D.D. is not as useful for edge guarding. I stand by that statement, but the combo IS useful for something else! You know those people who like to use their Up + B when they're already over the stage? You can use your cape a few times, then finish off with a F.L.U.D.D. burst. Viola! You just KO'ed a person who was trying to be "extra safe". (Well... Maybe. It depends on the stage and the player's location)

There aren't very many "hard rules" for you to follow. You have to adapt to the situation and figure out how to knock the person off the stage before he/she can touch the ground or grab a ledge. In many cases, it's all a matter of using your cape and F.L.U.D.D. in the right order. If your opponent is far from the stage, you should probably start with F.L.U.D.D. (longer range) then follow up with your cape (quick, pushes back, but requires you to be close) or another burst from F.L.U.D.D. (slower, only neutralizes [can't overcome counter directional influence], but can be used safely from a distance) depending on the situation. If the player wasted his/her third jump over the stage, you might want to use cape a few times, then finish off with a burst from F.L.U.D.D. to counter the person's directional influence.

I like these moves because every situation requires you to use them in a different order. It's fun trying to figure out how to get a kill in a certain situation. If Kirby uses his Stone attack, you obviously want to use F.L.U.D.D. for the easy kill. F.L.U.D.D. is a better counter against Fox's Up + B (while he's using it, that is), but the cape is a better counter for his Side + B. Thus, you might knock a Fox player off the stage. If he uses Side + B, you counter with your cape. If he uses Up + B, you counter with F.L.U.D.D.. The beauty of it is that you don't have to stop there. Both moves are fast enough such that you go from one to the other or use the same move in somewhat rapid succession. Oh, and use your Smash moves BEFORE there moves if you're going for a push back kill rather than a knock-out. If you use smash moves, the player gets his/her jump back. If you want a knock-out, F.L.U.D.D. -> Smash Move is really handy.

If you want to see what I mean... Start a training match in Final Destination. (Player = Mario, Computer = Link) Move Link closer to the edge. Move Mario closer to Link. Have Link double jump then use Up + B. You SHOULD be able to KO link with Cape -> F.L.U.D.D. (you have to jump before using cape) even though Link actually started above the stage. Even then, there are several ways you can do this. Here are two of them. Note: You might have to set the speed to 1/2 if you're doing this on your own.

1) As Link is going up with his Up + B, jump twice, use your cape, then use your fully charged F.L.U.D.D.. The trick with this method is to aim straight down, then slowly tilt your controller up. This will allow more water to hit Link, ensuring a kill.

2) As Link is going up with his Up + B, jump twice, then fast fall down and quickly use your fully charged F.L.U.D.D.. You have to aim upwards with this one, obviously.

Alternatively, you can use F.L.U.D.D. -> Cape to get your kill.

1) As Link is coming down, use F.L.U.D.D. (upwards) and spray him as far as you can. If he doesn't go far enough, use your cape. After this, push him even farther with F.L.U.D.D. if possible! You can also jump down, use your cape, then recover... That's just rubbing it in, though. If you're a real jerk/pro, you can hit him with your cape, use a non-charged F.L.U.D.D., THEN recover. Why? Because you can. :laugh:


It all comes down to knowing how the moves work. Once you have a good feel for both moves, you'll know which move to use in a certain situation and which order to use them in if you have to use more than one. F.L.U.D.D. is awesome, and having this move AND the cape is unbelievable. You can actually get by using these two moves alone, although I don't recommend it. Rather, interweave F.L.U.D.D. and cape combos into your normal gameplay. You can counter almost every character's recovery using some combination of these two moves.

A final tip in closing... Some times, shooting upward is more useful than shooting sideways or down. You want to knock a person down and to the side, but shooting sideways when a person is over the stage won't give you many hits. Aiming upwards will allow you to hold a person in the air, and this is especially useful when the person wasted his/her third jump over the stage.

Note: This is preliminary information, so some tricks could be more useful than stated and some tricks could be less useful than stated.

BTW, does F.L.U.D.D. push projectiles? (such as capsules & DDD's Waddle Dees?)
Yes. =)
 

Insomniac487

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
44
VERY, very interesting stuff........ ;) Can anybody make vids of this? to give us more of a visual
 

Mac2492

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
78
Hmm...

In battle, the Cape -> F.L.U.D.D. combo in the air seems to be highly situational. If you happen to jump as your opponent is using Up + B, you can use this combo in the air. Otherwise, it seems to be handier as an Edge-Guarding move. You can use your cape to knock a person in the air off the stage, then use F.L.U.D.D. (fully charged), then use cape again if the person comes back.

P.S. I don't have anything to record with, so I can't make any videos. Sorry.
 

Mike Hawk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
231
Location
TX
wow mac you covered just about every single one of my techs with fludd, nicely done.
i'd like to add a few notes

-Fludd in free for all & teams = win, just push an ike charging his forward smash towards a group of players for and awesome show of fireworks. (small example)


-fludd -> meteor smash = flashy
the way to execute this is to fludd someone while they are still on the stage out of the stage, in
their panic they will do a midair jump which you can intercept.

-fludd can be countered

-you will have to adapt for when your friends start air dodging fludd.

-wolf is hard to fludd

-ness and lucas provide the most satisfying fludds

-fludds sounds pretty lame, how about we call the act of using fludd on someone a "skeet"?

oh so many things you can do with fludd, thats why im making a combo video.
well not really a combo video but more of a "Skeets" video.
 

Half-Split Soul

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,686
oh so many things you can do with fludd, thats why im making a combo video.
well not really a combo video but more of a "Skeets" video.
Great, that'll be awesome :).

And since F.L.U.D.D. can push solid odjects (thanks for clearing that out mac2492) it,s definitely gonna rock in team battles! Giving your teammate's projectiles some extra lenght and speed or re-directing them in order to hit enemies, moving characters closer/further from each other according to situation... Yep, it's very spammable in teams.
 

saratos

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
96
I have to wonder... Where are those pricks who had the japanese version and mislead us that it barely pushes back opponents in the air and that it is useless?
 

Mac2492

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
78
wow mac you covered just about every single one of my techs with fludd, nicely done.
^,^

-fludd -> meteor smash = flashy
the way to execute this is to fludd someone while they are still on the stage out of the stage, in
their panic they will do a midair jump which you can intercept.
Yeah, I like to use F.L.U.D.D. even when the opponent is "safe" simply because it's confusing. I've actually gotten two kills (in like 50 matches) because I used F.L.U.D.D. on an unsuspecting opponent who ended up accidentally using a move like Fox's Side + B or Ike's Ike's Side + B.


-fludd can be countered
I heard that it can be reflected too. I'll have to check that. It can definitely be blocked with the shield, which is a shame.

Oh, and Link's shield (the one that he holds in his right hand) blocks it. You'll have to aim for his head or his feet to push him while he's standing still. (Or shoot him from behind) The same applies to Toon Link.

-you will have to adapt for when your friends start air dodging fludd.
If they dodge it, try using your cape.

-ness and lucas provide the most satisfying fludds
Yoshi is pretty satisfying too.


P.S. I can't wait for the video!
 

waru

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
4
Location
TX
Man, this was very in - depth. Gropes and kisses to everyone who contributed.


I'd like to point out that it's best to "Skeet" (in honor of Mike Hawk) all over the opponent when they are at a peak. For example, if you crown yourself "King of the Hill", and don't want invaders (I am so ****ing high right now), you aim at the point where it is the peak at someone's mid - air jump / attack.


For (another) example, if you tossed the opponent off the edge and you have a charged "Skeetmachine" (handy to have 24/7), you aim it so that it hits them when they are the most stationary. When is an object most stationary when it is airborne? Simple physics - it is at the peak. If you throw a ball up in the air, it kind of hangs at the peak for a split second and then drops down. This is when the kinetic energy transferred from your arm into the ball is all used up and gravity takes over.

This basic principle applies to this game when someone jumps - they hang for a bit in the air when gravity resides over kinetic energy. At the peak (the highest point) of a jump or Up + B attack, most everyone puts this principle to work. Ness and JigglyPuff are easy because as they jump in the air, they are rather slow (especially when Ness freezes mid - air to do his PK thunder). Ike is simple because he has a very definite peak - the point at which he catches his sword after hurling it upwards (from then on, it is a rapid descend). The sword kind of marks the spot for you - aim in that spot and shoot a split second before he gets there, and he won't reach the edge.

The peak of any mid - air action is the best place to aim because the water is pushing them back for a long time. If you do it while someone is jumping, you have to move the spurt of "Skeet" up along with them, and trace their movements. At the peak, you don't have to move it much, just make sure you don't miss the spot.

Once opponents catch on, they'll try and do air dodges. This does effect the "Skeet" -> Cape combo mentioned earlier, but it is a greater disadvantage to the opponent to have to toss that in when they are in danger.


By the way, is it me or is the cape's hitbox reduced in this game? I have a harder time pulling it off.
 

Half-Split Soul

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,686
Man, this was very in - depth. Gropes and kisses to everyone who contributed.


I'd like to point out that it's best to "Skeet" (in honor of Mike Hawk) all over the opponent when they are at a peak. For example, if you crown yourself "King of the Hill", and don't want invaders (I am so ****ing high right now), you aim at the point where it is the peak at someone's mid - air jump / attack.


For (another) example, if you tossed the opponent off the edge and you have a charged "Skeetmachine" (handy to have 24/7), you aim it so that it hits them when they are the most stationary. When is an object most stationary when it is airborne? Simple physics - it is at the peak. If you throw a ball up in the air, it kind of hangs at the peak for a split second and then drops down. This is when the kinetic energy transferred from your arm into the ball is all used up and gravity takes over.

This basic principle applies to this game when someone jumps - they hang for a bit in the air when gravity resides over kinetic energy. At the peak (the highest point) of a jump or Up + B attack, most everyone puts this principle to work. Ness and JigglyPuff are easy because as they jump in the air, they are rather slow (especially when Ness freezes mid - air to do his PK thunder). Ike is simple because he has a very definite peak - the point at which he catches his sword after hurling it upwards (from then on, it is a rapid descend). The sword kind of marks the spot for you - aim in that spot and shoot a split second before he gets there, and he won't reach the edge.

The peak of any mid - air action is the best place to aim because the water is pushing them back for a long time. If you do it while someone is jumping, you have to move the spurt of "Skeet" up along with them, and trace their movements. At the peak, you don't have to move it much, just make sure you don't miss the spot.

Once opponents catch on, they'll try and do air dodges. This does effect the "Skeet" -> Cape combo mentioned earlier, but it is a greater disadvantage to the opponent to have to toss that in when they are in danger.


By the way, is it me or is the cape's hitbox reduced in this game? I have a harder time pulling it off.
What do you mean "was"? There´s still plenty of F.L.U.D.D. analysing to come if it´s up to me :laugh:.

But about you points. I agree with you that usually it´s best to aim for the top of enemy´s jumps, but there are also situations when that´s not your best bet. Sometimes is better to attack earlier than you normally would to catch enemies off-guard or to force them do use their airdodge in the early part of the recovery.
 

Mike Hawk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
231
Location
TX
What do you mean "was"? There´s still plenty of F.L.U.D.D. analysing to come if it´s up to me :laugh:.

ask and ye shall receive, i just finished a 5 hour marathon of playing with some friends and believe me i did not leave empty handed.

i got videos of the techniques that I'm about to post so if you dont understand them just wait till i upload the videos sometime tomorrow.

one of my friends is a BIG spacies player (fox/falco) so I got a technique specifically for spacies.

this guy just loves doing the sideB (fox/falco illusion) and I got to say its quite tough to cape the illusion since they pretty much become invincible when being executed so I gave up on caping them.

now here is the meat, fludd cant push back their illusion so no skeet deaths here. however, you can skeet them before the illusion is performed and push the illusion upwards.
For video reference of this go here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Coi8fz5-LGk watch 0:42

here are 2 that are useful on any char.

lets face it brawl is somewhat lacking on combos, now and then you can get a flurry of hits on your opponent however you have to land to keep your hits coming, your opponent however does not need to land, he can double jump into you and start his own combo. i think you guys know where im going with this.

use fludd after a flurry of attacks, your moves might not reach but fludd will, skeet on them afterwards and you will accomplish 1 or 2 of 2 possible outcomes.

1. you will push your opponent and yourself backwards enough for you to regain your game and and continue attacking.

2. you give your opponent that little extra push off the stage that you can capitalize on.(see Skeet -> Meteor)





next tech, when your opponent is hanging from the edge your opponent has 5 ways to come back into the stage:
-simple "get up"
-roll
-attack
-jump
-press back and jump in using an attack

you can seal 2 of these ways of coming back to the stage by standing one roll away from the edge(get on the edge and roll backwards to find out that distance in case you dont know)

they jump, you aerial their *** back out.
they roll you smash their *** back out.

they do any of the other 3 you skeet on their ***. it will push them off the edge just a tad bit but it should make them panic and you can punish. (Watch Ike From second 25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Coi8fz5-LGk )

well I need some sleep now, its 6 AM here.





 

Half-Split Soul

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,686
Nice finds again. F.L.U.D.D. sure is useful (and I mean useful) in edgeguard. I must start inventing more Mario down-b technicues or you´ll beat me to it...
 
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