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EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

What are your favorite moves?


  • Total voters
    518

BillNyeTheSamusGuy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
463
Defense comes in many forms, for now we're going to assume a "defensive option" is a reaction to an approaching attack from your opponent, or a situation where you know you'll have to shield/get hit. Your options are:

walk away
dash away
wave dash away
jump (jump->waveland on platform)
spotdodge
roll (snicker)
shield
crouch cancel
ftilt (if they approach but mis-space)
upb



OOS Options

Wavedash away, shield, and crouch cancel are probably the most samus-y of those options. To flesh out samus' defense it'll be important to know what kind of things you can use after those options. Let's consider oos options.

shield->upb
shield->wave dash oos
shield->nair oos (any aerial really, nair has the most utility)
shield->jump to retreat
shield->bomb
shield->grab
shield->spot/dodge roll

The important thing to note is that if your opponent hits your shield, there are situations where they can shield the upb. Recognize this and mix up the options you use. If you watch Hugs you'll see him predominantly cycle through three options OOS: Upb, grab, and wave dash away. Upb beats attacks, movement (eg jumping) and even shield sometimes, grab beats shield, wave dash away is safe as long as they don't read it or immediately attack. The beauty is that each option encourages your opponent to do something one of the other options deals with. Are people shielding your upbs, then grab. Are people punishing the grab? Wave dash away. Are people preparing to punish your wd? Upb. (This is not a comprehensive list of interactions, but I find it a godd starting point. Watch this for further research on oos options and some good examples of how to use them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZTEFvi5E_4).


CC Options

Your oos game is pretty good, but sometimes you have to take the hit and/or you realize its more beneficial to take the hit. This brings us to crouch cancelling. Responses include:

crouch cancel->dtilt/dsmash
crouch cancel->upb
crouch cancel->jab
crouch cancel->grab
crouch cancel->shield
crouch cancel->wavedash

Dtilt is probably where you want to start, since you can get a big punish off it. Better people get around that pretty quick tho. CC->Grab can beat shield if they commit to the shield after an attack, but I find jabs are pretty useful here as well, since they are less committal than grabs. CC->upb is a pretty niche option, but its a nice get out of jail free card if you know you're about to get hit by something you usually can't counter attack out of cc (eg falcos dair).


Wavedash Options-

Defensive use of wavedashes is pretty straightforward:

Wave dash back -> attack
wave dash back -> retreat
wave dash back -> advance

You use wavedashes when you know your opponent messes up their spacing and can't hit you with their approach. This is why wavedash->attack is so common: They just committed but you moved back out of their range putting you in a position for a counter hit. Ftilt, fsmashes, dtilt, dsmash, and uptilt are common here with a spaced ftilt being the safest/most common option. After the wavedash you may need to re-take stage control or readjust your spacing, so using another movement option to advance or retreat is advisable at times. Also also, often your opponents will hard read a wavedash back (because you are samus) so consider wavedashing through your opponent if you notice your wavedashes are getting punished.
 
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Mervis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
313
I wish HugS would explain advanced Samus meta game in this format. The video was so clear and clean I felt like I was learning basics all over again!
 

Samuch

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Messages
57
Guys help me, teach me how to play defensive with Samus and different defensive options. I'm always just approaching with missles and up-b OoS for defense. What should I do?
This question is next to impossible to answer. Submit a video.
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
Just be aware that you may have trouble playing against someone who is actually more defensive than you are. Good Samus play is actually all about switching between offense and defense with ease. More accurately, it's offensive positioning combined with primarily defensive actions. You have to push forward to a position where the opponent will feel threatened trying to do anything other than immediately retreat or attack. Then you take an action to retaliate. Bill Nye had a good analysis of your options above, although I feel he didn't put enough emphasis on preemptive utilts as good options to stuff jump-ins. You may be able to play mostly defense against the worse chars, but against the other high/top tier chars, you will need to master that balance between offense and defense.

Btw, hey guys, long time. :p
 
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ycz12

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
734
Location
San Francisco, CA
I beat HMW on Saturday!!!



I feel like I've figured out how to play against very patient, fundamentally solid spacies, which have been a thorn in my side for a long time.
 

GoomySmash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
80
I beat HMW on Saturday!!!

I feel like I've figured out how to play against very patient, fundamentally solid spacies, which have been a thorn in my side for a long time.
That's awesome dude, I wish it was recorded. You and IHaveSpaceBalls need to money match for best stylish green Samus that occasionally uses the extender
 

ycz12

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
734
Location
San Francisco, CA
I just ordered a new controller, so hopefully I will be able to Extender more consistently soon! The d-pad on my old one had gotten a little... I dunno how to describe it. Mushy?

I also wish it was recorded :'(
 

343

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
433
Location
Norcal
look i made bracket in that tournament :^)

escaped with some very illegitimate wins

(though I extendered a marth player like 4 times in 1 of my stocks :) )
 

The Hunter

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
29
Location
South germany
to build some nice combos with samus, i ****in love the u-tilt of samus / or sometimes in air: mine to n-air combo just makes so much fun :D
 

BillNyeTheSamusGuy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
463
Is there a samus R&D group on FB? I know other characters have them.

Also, can I get some thoughts on some falco stuff?

1) So I've been trying to wd oos between lasers but it doesn't seem to useful. Like, yea you kinda maintain some movement in neutral but you can't approach with it still , you just hope the falco stops or commits to something. Also, I got grabbed a bunch the other day and idk what to do about it. Should falco grab a wd oos'ing samus?

2) Controlling options with missiles- I was trying to get some punishable reactions with missiles against a falco but I wasn't able to capitalize too often though. Ideas? I tried to use missiles in a couple situations A) Medium range horizontal with falco and jumping over the laser to fire or B) missiling on a platform (longer range) or missiling while moving off the platform (retreating to missile off the plat if falco was close, homing missile on and/or running off plat towards the falco if he was far).
What options would falco take against missiles in these situations?
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Is there a samus R&D group on FB? I know other characters have them.

Also, can I get some thoughts on some falco stuff?

1) So I've been trying to wd oos between lasers but it doesn't seem to useful. Like, yea you kinda maintain some movement in neutral but you can't approach with it still , you just hope the falco stops or commits to something. Also, I got grabbed a bunch the other day and idk what to do about it. Should falco grab a wd oos'ing samus?

2) Controlling options with missiles- I was trying to get some punishable reactions with missiles against a falco but I wasn't able to capitalize too often though. Ideas? I tried to use missiles in a couple situations A) Medium range horizontal with falco and jumping over the laser to fire or B) missiling on a platform (longer range) or missiling while moving off the platform (retreating to missile off the plat if falco was close, homing missile on and/or running off plat towards the falco if he was far).
What options would falco take against missiles in these situations?
WD into cc laser jab or ftilt bruh, no need to appraoch, make them approach you in a way they didnt plan
 

BillNyeTheSamusGuy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
463
Doesn't this assume they'll commit to continue lasering? (In my case I can assume this, but I don't think it holds across all levels of play). If they disengage (retreat to side platform, top platform) after seeing you cc is there still benefit/ Can you cover that movement with something?
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Doesn't this assume they'll commit to continue lasering? (In my case I can assume this, but I don't think it holds across all levels of play). If they disengage (retreat to side platform, top platform) after seeing you cc is there still benefit/ Can you cover that movement with something?
well you have the option of wd back or forward into crouching the laser, options include cc rising nair to cover the laser grab/nair/dair approach, or you could up b, or cc charge shot ;p

when a falco sees a samus CCing, one of the most fundamental lines of thinking is my dair beats your CC
 
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Corigames

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
Tempe, AZ
I went to a tournament today, but wasn't feeling like entering after I got there. The TO (Z-man) said he would pay my entrance fee as long as I played only Samus and did a lot of hype/gimmicky stuff. I ended up getting 3rd, so expect an extender montage soon :p

Edit:
My SDs in the last game were sooo bad :( Could have finally beaten Forward in a set if I hadn't lost my cool.
 
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BillNyeTheSamusGuy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
463
After it became widely accepted by smash TO's to accept hype samus tech as well as money as entry fees to tournaments; Ycz6 never payed to enter a tourney again.
 

Corigames

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
Tempe, AZ
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Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
This isn't the sheik boards!? Wow thanks for letting me know, friend.
Lmao chill Pluppy, u still my favorite sheik just poking fun since this was the first ive seen you on here since you started producing big time results as sheik
 
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ycz12

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
734
Location
San Francisco, CA
So on Tuesday, I played against HMW again, and every time I would u-throw him onto the top platform of FoD or Yoshi's, he would...

Edit: Actually gonna move this to the techchasing thread where it seems more relevant
 
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