EVO Online Without Smash? Opinions?

[Maikeru-San]

Just today I've heard that Smash wasn't coming to Online EVO for 2020 because of it's netcode. In my opinion I feel like it's a good and bad thing that it happened.


The Good:

- Because of how bad the online structure is I feel like it's a good thing since it'll be a rep nightmare for Nintendo if it didn't happen at all.


The Bad:

- Because of the points of the good, now Nintendo won't be able to see what the heck is up with the online and gives a lower chance of improvements in the future.


What's your overall opinions on the subject. You want it to happen at all? You don't want Smash to be in the Online EVO? Why?

 

[OnyanRings]

I don't really find other fighting games that interesting to watch, so it's a big let down for me.
Not because i find them boring, but i'd rather much play them myself, with smash, it's a bit different for me.
I don't really know how to explain it, maybe it's the movements, maybe it's the hype inducing red flashes that appear right when you're about to end your opponent's whole career, who knows ?

But anyways, i don't think i'll be watching this one.

 

[GhostM]

Honestly I feel like it was necessary to cut Smash since it was most likely the game that had the worst online experience out of all of them. It’s no surprise that it ended up being cut off because of the 5 frames of native input lag (both offline and online), and the minimum 5 frames online with more added if connection is laggy. Smash is a game that has both competitors and viewers who enjoy it, which would be awful to just witness/play through the laggy mess that Ultimate’s online mode has to offer. Not to forget that games in poor connections could take longer than the intended match times, and games that have to be replayed because of disconnects. I really hope Nintendo realizes that the online is really bad, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t do anything about it.

 

[The Slayer]

I wouldn't expect any changes to the netcode anytime soon. They been doing this for years since their first online games and it's barely a step up in recent games with it. And knowing that FGC/EVO aren't big fans of Smash games, I bet they were in total euphoria hearing that Ultimate's online is abysmal. So taking it out of EVO Online would be effortless for them.

It's pretty sad that even a pony-like fighting game has far better netcode than Smash. Pretty embarrassing take there.

 

[Spiny Top]

It is honestly a disgusting disgrace.

Do these EVO people realize we are in the middle of a pandemic slaughtering thousands of people everyday? Yet you cut Smash Bros, easily the most popular game, because a few crybabies are complaining about a minuscule amount more latency? You are kidding, right? This thread is some joke I hope?

Pathetic and disgraceful.

 

[The Slayer]

Spiny Top
It's not just latency, but input delay, unstable viewing, random disconnects and other issues that would really downplay the viewership. Also, it's definitely not a "few." It's been a problem since the game came out, so the number has been growing for a while now.

 

[Spiny Top]

Spiny Top
It's not just latency, but input delay, unstable viewing, random disconnects and other issues that would really downplay the viewership. Also, it's definitely not a "few." It's been a problem since the game came out, so the number has been growing for a while now.

All you are doing is speculating though. Run the tournament and find out, I doubt anything you just listed would actually be a problem. Requiring competitors to have an adapter and hard line connection could help if need be.

Sorry man I’m just kinda mad here was looking forward to some EVO smash.

 

[Strong Badam]

To the OP, there's no confirmation that Smash Ultimate's netcode is the reason it's not featured, so the entire premise of the topic is flawed. For all we know, EVO reached out to Nintendo to set up some exhibitions and just haven't gotten word back about it. None of the original lineup games are getting open brackets, so that was never going to happen for Smash Ultimate anyway. Street Fighter V isn't getting one, Tekken 7 isn't getting one, etc..

Note that there's nothing in the announcement video specifically saying "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Will not be featured in EVO Online." They can totally add it later if, for example, Nintendo were to get back to them with an a-okay.

All you are doing is speculating though. Run the tournament and find out, I doubt anything you just listed would actually be a problem. Requiring competitors to have an adapter and hard line connection could help if need be.

Sorry man I’m just kinda mad here was looking forward to some EVO smash.

Massive Smash tournaments have been happening online ever since the COVID-19 lockdown began, and all of the issues The Slayer noted have come up. "Run the tournament and find out" isn't necessary because we already know this information. If you were really looking forward to watching some Smash, maybe check out Quarantine Series or check the vods for Pound Online.

 

[Spiny Top]

To the OP, there's no confirmation that Smash Ultimate's netcode is the reason it's not featured, so the entire premise of the topic is flawed. For all we know, EVO reached out to Nintendo to set up some exhibitions and just haven't gotten word back about it. None of the original lineup games are getting open brackets, so that was never going to happen for Smash Ultimate anyway. Street Fighter V isn't getting one, Tekken 7 isn't getting one, etc..

Note that there's nothing in the announcement video specifically saying "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Will not be featured in EVO Online." They can totally add it later if, for example, Nintendo were to get back to them with an a-okay.


Massive Smash tournaments have been happening online ever since the COVID-19 lockdown began, and all of the issues The Slayer noted have come up. "Run the tournament and find out" isn't necessary because we already know this information. If you were really looking forward to watching some Smash, maybe check out Quarantine Series or check the vods for Pound Online.

So every single smash tournament is being blown up and is a disaster because of disconnects and unplayable latency you are telling me? That bad huh?

Guess I’m pretty lucky, that rarely if ever happenes to me and I play online all the time.

 

[Strong Badam]

So every single smash tournament is being blown up and is a disaster because of disconnects and unplayable latency you are telling me? That bad huh?

Guess I’m pretty lucky, that rarely if ever happenes to me and I play online all the time.

You may have a different definition of "unplayable" than players who are very good at the game. The game, under optimal networking conditions (LAN adapter, low ping, no packet loss) has at minimum 12 frames of input lag, making it twice as high as any average fighting game being played online. It's ridiculous as is, and only gets worse if someone from one country is playing someone from another, or coast-to-coast in the US.
Here's a great video explaining what happens to tournament-level strategies with additional latency

Players do ask moderators to perform lag tests when it gets particularly bad, resulting in possible DQs, and there have been disconnects during grand finals sets. Again, if you really want to watch some Smash, these tournaments are happening regularly. Just keep an eye out on Twitch on weekends.

Regardless, none of this is particularly relevant because we have no confirmation that Ultimate's netcode is the reason why it isn't featured in EVO Online, as I explained earlier.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Although we may not know for certain that online issues are the reason why Ultimate was cut, I think it’s a pretty safe assumption to make that that is the case. If it is, I completely agree with the decision. This game at EVO Online would have been a ****show. A funny ****show, but a ****show nonetheless.

I honestly think trying to run an online EVO in the first place is the biggest mistake.

 

[Maikeru-San]

All you are doing is speculating though. Run the tournament and find out, I doubt anything you just listed would actually be a problem. Requiring competitors to have an adapter and hard line connection could help if need be.

Sorry man I’m just kinda mad here was looking forward to some EVO smash.

Agreed, I mean I was ready for a laggy mess. I understand no one wants for that to happen but because the other games on that list already has bad online I was just going to check it out for a funny time tbh.

It is a shame

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Real quick question: is it possible to use a service like parsec to hypothetically eliminate the 6 frames of added online lag? I would still like to see a 64-man bracket roughly composed of the pgr.

 

[Maikeru-San]

Real quick question: is it possible to use a service like parsec to hypothetically eliminate the 6 frames of added online lag? I would still like to see a 64-man bracket roughly composed of the pgr.

I mean if it's possible to use parsec on the switch, maybe

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Just looked it up, it's entirely possible to use parsec for the switch.

 

[Spiny Top]

Agreed, I mean I was ready for a laggy mess. I understand no one wants for that to happen but because the other games on that list already has bad online I was just going to check it out for a funny time tbh.

It is a shame

Yea and the thing is there is such strong evidence it won't be a mess either. I just watched Naifu wars 11 and it was super hype. EVO is making a huge mistake.

Also, kind of salty I won't get to see all the WiFi ROBs do work.

 

[Maikeru-San]

Just looked it up, it's entirely possible to use parsec for the switch.

True, darn a waste of a perfect chance.