Everything About Joker in Smash Ultimate (Speculation)

[yyosh]

Hey guys, today I wanted to talk about Joker’s smash appearance and what I think it will be like. I completed Persona 5 a few months ago and I fell in love with it, and it is my favorite game of all time. Grab some popcorn because this is very long!

THE DATAMINE

Here’s some stuff for joker taken from a recent datamine:
- Cloud/Roy Run Speed
- Peach Weight
- Roy Fast Fall
- CFalcon Aerial Acceleration
- Sonic Air Speed
- Wall Jump
- Rapid Jab

MOVESET SPECULATION:

I went with a more simple approach to his moveset than others have.

I guess I should address personas first because that seems to be a very prominent point in Joker discussion. I think he wil only have his base persona, Arsene, and he will be represented in his smash attacks. The attacks will be based off of Arsene’s in game abilities. For example, Eiha will be Usmash, Lunge will be Fsmash, and Dsmash could be Cleave. The first two could be like Bayo’s, while the Dsmash being similar to Marcina.

Now, you may be asking, what would his special moves be if they weren’t personas? I think I have a pretty good guess.

Nspecial: Gun
Sspecial: Ambush
Uspecial: Down Shot / Arsene Wings / Sheik
Dspecial: Critical Counter

I think that Nspecial and Sspecial are both pretty obvious, as they are both prominent abilities in the game that fit the roles of specials pretty well (projectile / rush attack). The other two are harder to determine, because there aren’t many things in the game that relate to the roles that these specials traditionally have. I thought Uspecial could be Down Shot, a fun attack where Joker fires multiple shots while bouncing around, Arsene Wings, similar to corrin a where Arsene can spread his wings and carry Joker, or a similar one to sheik because it would fit in with his character. Dspecial could be a counter where one of Joker’s teammates would rush in and attack the opponent, like in the game if the character’s confidant link is high enough. If they wanted to go sicko mode and make it so it trips like a Hold Up in the game, then that would be a very good move.

Here’s some miscellaneous moveset stuff now. His jab will most likely be his standard attack from the game. Aerials and tilts will most likely involve mostly his knife with a few kick attacks put in there. I imagine Wolf’s aerials when I think of what Joker’s could be, but replacing the claw with the knife. Grab will probably just be a normal grab. His shield animation would most likely be his guard animation from the game.

FINAL SMASH

This is probably the most obvious thing for most people when talking about his moveset, but the All Out Attack would be a perfect final smash. I would see it being a move where you activate it in front of someone, and if it hits them, a spotlight will shine on them like a hold up in Persona 5. Then the all out attack animation plays, with either Morgana, Ann, and Ryuji, or a randomly selected group of 3 teammates from the game, helping out. It ends with Joker doing his signature All Out Attack pose, and it instakills anyone at 100%.

TAUNTS / VICTORY SCREENS

His three taunts are kinda hard to figure out, as he doesn’t really have taunts in P5. The first one could be him showing off Arsene behind his back, and the second one could be all out attack pose (again). I saw this suggestion from another thread, but he could bring out his journal and write in it, just like when you save the game in P5.

Victory screens are already in P5, so they shouldn’t be that hard to find. The first one would be his solo victory screen, where he runs his hand behind his head and walks away while spinning his knife occasionally. His second would be him falling from the top of the screen into his all out attack pose. His third would be my personal favorite, which could be his regular P5 victory screen where he waves and runs to the left infinitely. I would want his victory theme to be the one from the game, and for it to be like cloud’s where it doesn’t stop playing.

COSTUMES

If you are still reading, thanks. I’m gonna talk a whole lot more so be ready. Anyways, here are my costume guesses:

JANE

The datamine revealed that there was a Joker costume with ponytail hair. This would suggest that there is a female Joker. However, there is no female joker in Persona 5. They could add a FEMC in a potential enhanced version of the game that could be announced soon. There is also the possibility that this could be Akechi, and I will link another post here if you want to read about that: https://smashboards.com/threads/the-famed-junior-dectective-crow-goro-akechi-for-smash.480506/

IF JANE DOESN’T EXIST

I think there will be 4 thief costumes and 4 real life costumes. The thief costumes would be like Shulks and represent different characters with color changes. Here’s what I think they will be:

- Standard (Black Hair Black Cloak)
- Ann Based (Blonde Hair Red Cloak)
- Yusuke Based (Blue Hair White Cloak)
- Ryuji Based (Yellow Hair Gray Cloak)

And here’s the real life costumes he could have:

- Winter School Uniform
- Summer School Uniform
- Winter Casual Wear
- Summer Casual Wear

STAGE

Here’s some stage possibilities for Joker’s appearance.

MEMENTOS

The datamine had a misspelled version of mementos listed as a stage. Most people think mementos will be a stage. I don’t think mementos fits well as a stage, because it is a tight subway system that would have to have a walkoff and ceiling.

IF MEMENTOS IS JUST A PLACEHOLDER NAME IN THE FILES

I think there are three other stage possibilities besides mementos.

- Casino Palace
- Kamoshida’s Palace
- Shujin Academy Rooftop

I really want casino because it’s my favorite palace in the game. It’s also the first location you see in game. Kamoshida’s Palace is the first playable palace of the game, and Shujin Rooftop is the first hideout of the game. They could combine these two as a transitioning stage, which would be similar to the game.

MUSIC

I thought of eight songs that I think should be put in the game. I think they will have lyrics because Atlus has let the P5 music be played with lyrics in other games, and P5 is strongly known for its music.
- Last Suprise (Battle Theme)
- Life Will Change (Infiltration Theme)
- Rivers in the Desert (Endgame Boss Theme)
- Wake Up, Get Up, Get Out There (Opening / Main Theme)
- Blooming Villian (Palace Boss Theme)
- Willpower (Awakening Theme)
- Beneath the Mask (Night Theme)
- Stage Location Theme (Whims of Fate PLEASE SAKURAI)

OTHER THINGS

These are all things that weren’t mentioned in the Fighter Pass, but would be cool if they added.

ASSIST TROPHY

Morgana would be a really cool assist trophy. He could attack with his sword, use wind attacks with Zorro, and run into people as a bus. He could even heal the summoner.

SPIRITS

I think they could have spirits for all the other party members, and the Personas that they have. The Persona spirits could even be enhanceable to their final forms in the game.

CLOSING

I’m very excited for Joker, as you could tell from this very long article. Thanks for bearing with me if you are still reading, and I would love to hear all of your suggestions as well!

 

[lukinator1]

JANE

The datamine revealed that there was a Joker costume with ponytail hair. This would suggest that there is a female Joker. However, there is no female joker in Persona 5. They could add a FEMC in a potential enhanced version of the game that could be announced soon. There is also the possibility that this could be Akechi, and I will link another post here if you want to read about that: https://smashboards.com/threads/the-famed-junior-dectective-crow-goro-akechi-for-smash.480506/

why would jane be akechi if she/he has a ponytail model and akechi has no ponytail

 

[yyosh]

I just thought it was a possibility because Akechi’s Hair is different from Joker’s, but I guess I overlooked the actual file name. My bad.

 

[Flyboy]

I just thought it was a possibility because Akechi’s Hair is different from Joker’s, but I guess I overlooked the actual file name. My bad.

I still don't think it's a bad possibility. It could just refer to the physics.

 

[yyosh]

Hey guys, Persona 5 The Royal was announced a few hours ago, and it looks like it features a new FEMC with a ponytail. The datamine was correct!

 

[LoZ00]

I wish Joker didn't use his gun for his specials but for some standard attacks instead (his f-air, for example). I'd like Ambush to be his neutral special, as it would be a command grab, much like Chomp for Wario. Joker could then release his opponent forward or backward or attack the opponents depending on the command the player inputs.
As for his side and up special, I think that Arsene's Dream Needle and Cleave could work: Dream Needle has Arsene sweeping his leg, releasing needles that deal damage and that can potentially put opponents asleep. Cleave on the other hand would be a slash with Arsene's leg. While doing so, Arsene and Joker would jump diagonally upwards, making the move a recovery tool.
His down special would be Eiha: upon performing the move Joker and Arsene would kneel and a red reticle appears on the ground. By holding down the B button and moving the left stick players can move the reticle and by releasing the B button a wave of red, Curse spells appears, damaging opponents.

His Final Smash would, of course, be All-Out Attack. I doubt that we will get actual teammates models: I believe that Joker will simply dash forward or create some light of sort (think of Shulk's Final Smash, this could be integrated with the Cognition World's aesthetic). Then the attack would break out, maybe with the "glass breaking" aesthetic before the attack, in that case, we might have four artworks, one for Joker and the other three for teammates (I hope we end up getting Morgana, Ryuji, and Makoto but they would probably switch Makoto with Ann).

As for his normals, I hope and believe that his standard animation will actually end up being his forward smash, as Joker is confirmed to have a rapid jab. For the other normals, I think they will create most of them, but it would be incredibly nice if his teammates, or at the very least Morgana and maybe Ryuji, appeared in somewhere, at least in his Smashes (I don't think it will happen, but I would deeply appreciate).

I also have a very random idea: what if Palutena's Guidance dialogue for Joker featured Morgana? You may have noticed that I brought Morgana and Ryuji many times in the discussion, but that's just because for a game like Persona 5, where the cast is so great, it's a shame to have just the protagonist (even though I'm very grateful we ended up getting him!).

So
"What are your thoughts?"

 

[yyosh]

I wish Joker didn't use his gun for his specials but for some standard attacks instead (his f-air, for example). I'd like Ambush to be his neutral special, as it would be a command grab, much like Chomp for Wario. Joker could then release his opponent forward or backward or attack the opponents depending on the command the player inputs.
As for his side and up special, I think that Arsene's Dream Needle and Cleave could work: Dream Needle has Arsene sweeping his leg, releasing needles that deal damage and that can potentially put opponents asleep. Cleave on the other hand would be a slash with Arsene's leg. While doing so, Arsene and Joker would jump diagonally upwards, making the move a recovery tool.
His down special would be Eiha: upon performing the move Joker and Arsene would kneel and a red reticle appears on the ground. By holding down the B button and moving the left stick players can move the reticle and by releasing the B button a wave of red, Curse spells appears, damaging opponents.

His Final Smash would, of course, be All-Out Attack. I doubt that we will get actual teammates models: I believe that Joker will simply dash forward or create some light of sort (think of Shulk's Final Smash, this could be integrated with the Cognition World's aesthetic). Then the attack would break out, maybe with the "glass breaking" aesthetic before the attack, in that case, we might have four artworks, one for Joker and the other three for teammates (I hope we end up getting Morgana, Ryuji, and Makoto but they would probably switch Makoto with Ann).

As for his normals, I hope and believe that his standard animation will actually end up being his forward smash, as Joker is confirmed to have a rapid jab. For the other normals, I think they will create most of them, but it would be incredibly nice if his teammates, or at the very least Morgana and maybe Ryuji, appeared in somewhere, at least in his Smashes (I don't think it will happen, but I would deeply appreciate).

I also have a very random idea: what if Palutena's Guidance dialogue for Joker featured Morgana? You may have noticed that I brought Morgana and Ryuji many times in the discussion, but that's just because for a game like Persona 5, where the cast is so great, it's a shame to have just the protagonist (even though I'm very grateful we ended up getting him!).

So
"What are your thoughts?"

You have some good points here, but I disagree with the gun and ambush moves. For ambush, I thought of it as a Diddy Monkey Flip/Raptor Boost type move where Joker would rush forward like in P5 and hold on to the opponent before “taking off their mask.” He would then flip backwards like Falcon Up B and launch the opponent at a slightly downwards angle. For gun, I’m assuming you’re talking about a move like Mii Gunner Fair, which in my opinion feels pretty awkward and could easily be replaced with a simple knife swing. Gun as a neutral B would most likely work like Fox, where you fire fast traveling bullets with no knockback.

Including Morgana and Ryuji would be really cool, so that’s why I thought a counter where they show up would be a cool addition. And yes, Makoto is best girl.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

I wish Joker didn't use his gun for his specials but for some standard attacks instead (his f-air, for example). I'd like Ambush to be his neutral special, as it would be a command grab, much like Chomp for Wario. Joker could then release his opponent forward or backward or attack the opponents depending on the command the player inputs.
As for his side and up special, I think that Arsene's Dream Needle and Cleave could work: Dream Needle has Arsene sweeping his leg, releasing needles that deal damage and that can potentially put opponents asleep. Cleave on the other hand would be a slash with Arsene's leg. While doing so, Arsene and Joker would jump diagonally upwards, making the move a recovery tool.
His down special would be Eiha: upon performing the move Joker and Arsene would kneel and a red reticle appears on the ground. By holding down the B button and moving the left stick players can move the reticle and by releasing the B button a wave of red, Curse spells appears, damaging opponents.

His Final Smash would, of course, be All-Out Attack. I doubt that we will get actual teammates models: I believe that Joker will simply dash forward or create some light of sort (think of Shulk's Final Smash, this could be integrated with the Cognition World's aesthetic). Then the attack would break out, maybe with the "glass breaking" aesthetic before the attack, in that case, we might have four artworks, one for Joker and the other three for teammates (I hope we end up getting Morgana, Ryuji, and Makoto but they would probably switch Makoto with Ann).

As for his normals, I hope and believe that his standard animation will actually end up being his forward smash, as Joker is confirmed to have a rapid jab. For the other normals, I think they will create most of them, but it would be incredibly nice if his teammates, or at the very least Morgana and maybe Ryuji, appeared in somewhere, at least in his Smashes (I don't think it will happen, but I would deeply appreciate).

I also have a very random idea: what if Palutena's Guidance dialogue for Joker featured Morgana? You may have noticed that I brought Morgana and Ryuji many times in the discussion, but that's just because for a game like Persona 5, where the cast is so great, it's a shame to have just the protagonist (even though I'm very grateful we ended up getting him!).

So
"What are your thoughts?"

Why the heck do you think they'd put Makoto in over Ann? This isn't even a "best girl" argument, if they feature teammates for Joker, they will likely go with the first party members.

 

[Improdigal]

Why the heck do you think they'd put Makoto in over Ann? This isn't even a "best girl" argument, if they feature teammates for Joker, they will likely go with the first party members.

Probably just personal preference.

 

[EarlTamm]

My hope for an all out attack final smash is that the Phantom Thieves involved are random. I think this is rather unlikely, as Shulk does not do that despite his party variety, but it's something I keep in mind.

 

[yyosh]

My hope for an all out attack final smash is that the Phantom Thieves involved are random. I think this is rather unlikely, as Shulk does not do that despite his party variety, but it's something I keep in mind.

I’m hoping for this too because it probably wouldn’t be that hard to do. Just use the illustrations that are already used in P5, they don’t have to be 3D models.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

My hope for an all out attack final smash is that the Phantom Thieves involved are random. I think this is rather unlikely, as Shulk does not do that despite his party variety, but it's something I keep in mind.

I'm also hoping they just decide to screw the character limit and just have all the PTs (including Futaba XD) be part of it much like in the anime. Hey they already decided "screw character limit" (and spoilers) on Shulk's FS by adding Fiora (as in his home game you can only have a party of three), they could very well do the same with Joker. Plus having a lot of PTs would make the AOA a lot more impactful to give it that FS feel.

 

[EarlTamm]

I'm also hoping they just decide to screw the character limit and just have all the PTs (including Futaba XD) be part of it much like in the anime. Hey they already decided "screw character limit" (and spoilers) on Shulk's FS by adding Fiora (as in his home game you can only have a party of three), they could very well do the same with Joker. Plus having a lot of PTs would make the AOA a lot more impactful to give it that FS feel.

That is possible. Not only is Shulk a good example, but Incineroar's final smash is as well due to it being a powered up version of the his z-move.

 

[Sandwich Man]

I know this is far out there, but I want his grab to be a Hold Up. He'd point his gun at the opponent and they'd freeze in front of him.

 

[odt]

My hopes are he’ll have great frame data and his specials will play a central role to his game (and have sick animations).

My expectation is that his normal attacks will have too much flair and end up having frame data like bayo. Also his smash attacks could all be arsene and be similar to palu’s smashes.

Whatever happens I don’t think his gun will be used in ‘hold up’ style. Possibly a ranged attack like bayo but even that I don’t think they can get away with.