Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[ChivalRuse]

Is this the Metal Reeper and Palpi thread?

 

[Palpi]

My falco and ganon and sheik suck! But okay!

 

[Metal Reeper]

Is this the Metal Reeper and Palpi thread?

It can be the Chivalruse thread too <3

Critique this I guess....lol my opponent isn't the best but...idk I guess to get back on topic, sorry everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLUqp7ivVVU

Also, my Marth combo video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gun1_Cv2II

 

[_Keno_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCoOJocNKXM

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

I was wanting to get it on these, since I've decided to main exclusively Marth from now on. These matches are very recent, although my opposition is a young up and commer who is still pretty new to competitive smash. Go easy on him, he's only like 15 but he has a ton of potential. This is my only singles match uploaded at the moment, otherwise I would try to find a more balanced match to show.

What I'm wanting is critique and advice to improve my Marth. Some things I might already realize and just didn't play to my full potential in this match (you'll see why). This is from a local tournament, grand finals bo5.

Zivilyn Bane (Marth) vs DrewBear (Falco/Falcon) Grand Finals Pathways February Tournament

Ref Code: Ziv64

 

[Palpi]

@bobby, Falcon is just as good as your other chars...not your best though.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Ziv64

When you grab fox/Falco you wanna Fthrow twice, then Uthrow chaingrab to like...31% then Utilt etc.

Good jab edgeguard at 0:23 but ended up missing it.

0:39 good use of the platform to escape Falco.

1:30 should of Utilt after Uthrow

1:41 missed another easy Fair gimp.

He did really good against Falcon.

His Marth is really good just needs to finish combos. His tech chase is really good. Spacing needs some work but he def knows spacing.

 

[Pandu!]

I would only recommend doing two fthrows if your opponent is slow on reaction or is expecting uthrow. It could be that i suck/am doing it wrong, but nearly every time I try two fthrows at zero I get shined/jabbed/other.

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Good advice guys. What I try to do when feeling opponent out is go for two f throws a couple of times. Once they jab out or shine, the next time I fthrow to fsmash. Is it better to just go for the up throws right away?

 

[prguy1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4nBJKv3N08

critique my ****ty marth please

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Good advice guys. What I try to do when feeling opponent out is go for two f throws a couple of times. Once they jab out or shine, the next time I fthrow to fsmash. Is it better to just go for the up throws right away?

I DI away buffer roll on the first time and love when marth's try to do fthrow ****. Easiest way to escape punishment at early percent, especially punishment that can lead to death/massive percent. Just uthrow.

 

[Pandu!]

Good advice guys. What I try to do when feeling opponent out is go for two f throws a couple of times. Once they jab out or shine, the next time I fthrow to fsmash. Is it better to just go for the up throws right away?

Fox can be uthrow chaingrabbed from zero, so that's what i'd do to him, and i'd skip the riskiness of the fthrows altogether unless you grab him under a platform. Against falco, i'm pretty sure he can di to avoid your up throw chaingrab at near-zero percents so fthrow might actually be best... confirm, someone?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

falco cannot be uthrow CG'd at zero if he DIs behind marth (not enough time to turn around grab). If the falco knows this, he will DI for that. If marth knows that the falco knows, he will fthrow because DI in will allow him to regrab before falco gets out of stun and then CG immediately after.

you were correct about fox, too, except i'd say uthrow even if you're below a platform

 

[Palpi]

He can't be chain grabbed if you DI forward either...pretty sure (uthrow)

 

[Signia]

He can't be chain grabbed if you DI forward either...pretty sure (uthrow)

At 0%, falco can be grabbed again if he DIs in the direction you are facing when you Uthrow.

 

[Palpi]

Could have sworn Mew2king said it can't be done except with no DI.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I dont think m2k would say that since it is possible to do unless falco DIs behind you

 

[Palpi]

Maybe I am mistaken =/

 

[Xinc]

Falco in Melee falls a tad bit too fast at 0 for Marth's up-throw chain, doesn't he?

 

[edgeluca]

Yes, just fthrow him a couple times first. You CAN regrab at 0 but it's frame perfect and most people can't do it if he DIs behind you.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

God damnit we get like 3 good Marth videos a month now. Most of Dahean's **** wasn't even recorded at Pound. I watched them all live, but I was too hyped to make any notable observations..

****, getting better with Marth would be a lot easier if more people played him. Now M2K uses him like one match a tournament. IB has disappeared off the face of the Earth. PewpewU is inactive. Ice lost to Kirby with Marth, and went other characters for almost every other game. Diakonos had some recent **** that was fun though and TAI & Dart have like a tournament a month up so I'm happy about that but...

**** man I feel like all I do is watch other characters. I played my Fox today and its gotten so much better just from spacie vids (<3 Perfect Dark, that vid *****) and my Marth has stagnated. Ugh

How the hell do low tier mains cope with this ****. /rant

 

[.Chipmunk.]

He uses him in friendlies quite often. I have a few M2K marth vids, just haven't uploaded them at all. He's been teaching me quite a bit so maybe I should start reppin my marth as well.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

He uses him in friendlies quite often. I have a few M2K marth vids, just haven't uploaded them at all.

So what you are trying to say is you are part of the problem lol

Sorry for being so pissy but I've been down ever since my Pound performance. I need to step it up, bad. Its so frustrating...

 

[EPsilon933]

How the hell do low tier mains cope with this ****. /rant

Marth approaches

 

[Xianglian]

****, getting better with Marth would be a lot easier if more people played him.

I feel the exact same way, only I suck so it's worse for me.

 

[Dart!]

So what you are trying to say is you are part of the problem lol

Sorry for being so pissy but I've been down ever since my Pound performance. I need to step it up, bad. Its so frustrating...

you shouldn't stress yourself about a national performance. especially if it was your first one.
it's all a learning experience until you start winning tournaments. then its just maintaining your lead.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

you shouldn't stress yourself about a national performance. especially if it was your first one.
it's all a learning experience until you start winning tournaments. then its just maintaining your lead.

I know this is good advice. Its what I would tell other people in my position.

But I just feel like I should have made more progress by now. Pound 4 was my return to the scene, so Pound 5 was my 1 year benchmark. I have gone to a tournament just about every weekend in between, with a ton of fests on weekdays. I've traveled to Georgia, New York, all across the country. I've gained a lot of knowledge along the way (much of which I had from following the scene during my hiatus) but I'm still struggling implementing it all in my game. I don't think I am particularly talented at the game, so I use PP/M2K's method; think a lot about the game, primarily by watching videos. When I don't have videos to help me break the game down, my progress stagnates.

Its just such a frustrating process. I'm sick of being content with losses and attributing it to the growing pains of getting good; at a certain point I have to hold myself accountable.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

M2K vs PB&J

I also have some Marth vids of my own on my channel. I would love the critique. I still have a few to upload.

 

[Metal Reeper]

I actually really enjoy critiquing videos

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I actually really enjoy critiquing videos

I really don't want match up critique, if that makes sense. I'd rather have more marth stuff than anything. I've only been playing for 5 months so I still need to learn my character before I start worrying about other characters. M2K has been a great help recently but I want alot of input.

 

[Metal Reeper]

I can give MU advice and general tactics/advice. Anythin. Post a vid I'm really bored.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I really don't want match up critique, if that makes sense. I'd rather have more marth stuff than anything. I've only been playing for 5 months so I still need to learn my character before I start worrying about other characters. M2K has been a great help recently but I want alot of input.

You've been playing with M2K? /jealous

But, I now have a favor to pay back it seems. Not only did you upload a **** video but in the related videos I found this. Can't believe I had never seen that. Chops' play to learn not play to win speech really struck home with me.

I'll give you a full critique. But..tomorrow. Its 3:30 AM right now haha.

 

[Niko45]

I feel like 3 years is a bench mark for being a contender as a national bracket level player at this point in the game's evolution. It's ****ing hard. Just keep playing. That's what I tell myself at least.

 

[MasterShake]

Critique thread?

**** I shouldn't have posted in friendlies.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=297006

PLEASE critique me, I need help identifying my weak spots.

 

[Tee ay eye]

dude, mastershake, you could **** everyone easily
just....

have your roommate create a dog using your DNA
unleash handbanana upon all of your opponents
****

 

[Tee ay eye]

uhhh, mooninite, just random things i'll say:

-i don't think you should nair from the ledge as much. you do it quite a bit, and it seems to work vs hypethug, but you'll lose many stocks and many tears from it when people ASDI-down/CC -> shield/d-smash/**** you out of it.
-LOL OMG at the song you have on Dreamland in Game 2 in Part 1. <3 Nitro Rider. That song is sooo ****. Is that my HPS file? I'm pretty sure I shared it. Makes me feel special
-in general, i think something more marths need to do is ledgehop -> counter. you should spread the word it has Axe's seal of approval
-Be very careful about using aerials on shields. I saw you fair on his shield a few times and sometimes you got punished. Rising fair is usually not good on shield cuz you're vulnerable afterwards. If you wanna fair someone's shield, do a falling fair to retreat/cross-up/other follow-up. If you hit their shield with the inside if your fair, you'll probably run behind them, and if you tip it, you can do... stuff. Otherwise, auto-cancel nairs are pretty good cuz they don't have that vulnerability time that fairs have. On top of using aerials, you can poke their shield with jabs, d-tilts, and forward Bs, and you can threaten them with dashdances and empty shorthops. Empty shorthops are pretty good cuz you can sometimes react to their approaches with a fair or something, or you can mix in an auto-cancel nair. Or you can tomahawk (empty SH to grab) if they don't do ****. But yeah, forward B is a pretty cool move. I probably do it more than I should, but I randomly saw some situations where I would've done it where you didn't. Ask Bobby about forward B. I learned it from Taj, but Bobby is pretty good with it too.
-This isn't really a problem, but just something I noticed. Your movement seems to be somewhat simple (i.e. you sorta just like, space your dashdances and stuff). I complicate my movement a lot, especially in trying to bait people, by mixing in a lot of shields and wavedashes. Again, your dashdancing is solid. Just saying, just think about the functions of wavedash and shields in movement and you might be able to get a little more out of it.
-You don't seem to WD out of shield that much. You should definitely add it to your repertoire.
-I personally don't think you should go to the ledge as much in-between stocks. Marth is somewhat limited from the edge compared to the rest of the cast once they make your ledgehop aerials obsolete by holding down, since his ledge wavedash isn't invincible.
-Overall, I was pretty impressed by your Marth. I'll make sure to not underestimate you next time I'm in Norcal

I may continue this some day, but for now, I need to pack up my lunch since there's a tourney today and food prices are bullsh*t

 

[MasterShake]

You made that music hack? Yee, too good. I love playing on my hacked melee.

Marth is somewhat limited from the edge compared to the rest of the cast once they make your ledgehop aerials obsolete by holding down, since his ledge wavedash isn't invincible.

Wait, what? Argh. Dang Marth...

Also, do you (or anyone else) recommend more UpB out of shield? I never really do that at all, and that vid of M2K I just watched had him do it right after the shine. Would that normally beat out fox/falco? Is it good in general?

 

[Niko45]

One of the biggest mistakes you see from developing Marths imo is ledgecamping way too much (or at all). Even watching Strawhat at P5, I'm left shaking my head as he ledgecamps between stocks and eventually gets punished when he gets up. It's not 07 anymore. At higher level spacies stop throwing their stocks away and start exploiting Marth's limited ledge options. Stay off the ledge as much as you can and when you're on it get up quickly with good mixups. Ledgehop air dodge, ledgehop counter, waveland in place at the very edge of the stage, roll up and ledge stand are some of the best options I feel, though none of those are foolproof and can be punished if read correctly. Don't give them a lot of time to set up good bair spacing or anything like that, as well as just generally giving them more time to analyze or think about what you like to do from the ledge. Between stocks you should use shield, WD oos, and smart timely rolling to waste invincibility and flip the momentum.

 

[Metal Reeper]

I like Dolphin Slash OoS. Only use it if they are at higher %. Only use it if there is a high platform above you.

And always reverse it.

 

[edgeluca]

What % would you recommend? Maybe 100+?