Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[Tee ay eye]

Wish me luck at DGDTJ this weekend, guys

EDIT: Shut up, Tony! You don't need advice! What you need is a combo video:

"Block off the Old Chip"
"The Tree Doesn't Fall Very Far From the Apple"
"Like Son, Like Father"

 

[Niko45]

Taj: Commentate more.

Good luck Tai

 

[Rubyiris]

Starting to become more serious about my Marth. Critique is appreciated.

Disclaimer: Random dash grabs in the wrong direction are failed pivot grabs, random fj uairs are failed JC grabs, and yes I know my egdeguarding needs work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV1Uhb0lKn4 Vs Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4piV6DaUYlQ Vs Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib_u8j66t8g Vs Jigglypuff

 

[stelzig]

Sometimes when playing against falco I just freeze completely. It's usually when I don't play so well in general, but in this matchup against this person (when using falco) feels so "random". As you will be able to see in the start of second match I am able to powershield, but yeah... Any tips regarding this match is much appreciated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nQKY4z-3e4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9BMT29JDyY&feature=sub

I'll have a match against VJ's ganondorf uploaded soon too which i'd really like to get some comments on too as he seems to know exactly how to play against my marth (very late night johns on those matches as well though I suppose)

 

[Palpi]

I don't see enough Marth's jab forced get up after a missed tech while chaingrabbing.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

really? i see it all the time, and in fact do it when its required.

Take it from me, its not that good. Marth has one of the worst jabs for resetting.

 

[Niko45]

I was going to say, I don't see Marth's jab reset enough OUTSIDE of chaingrabbing. It's pretty standardized during chaingrabbing but not really done very much on the fly.

Anyways, Stelzig:

-It feels like you're in the process of piecing this matchup together. Once you get your hands on him, you seem to be able to punish solidly. But yes, getting your hands on falco in the first place is the hard part so lets take a look:

-I don't see you utilizing wavedash/waveland OOS enough. This will help you bait some poor approaches and give you some better responses to shield pressure (WD oos fsmash is cool if it's working, otherwise WD oos to DD grab/dash attack). When you're underneath a platform, shield a laser and hop oos to waveland on to the platform. Then you can come down off the plat with a fair approach if you think it will work, or you can just chill on the plat for a bit to really make him think about what to do (it's actually kind of awkward for falco to attack you when you're on plats unless he's directly under you).

-I like that you're allowing lasers to just hit you, and not panic shielding after them to further immobilize you. Now what I would recommend, is walking while being hit by lasers. This can help you set up more ideal spacing when Falco is lasering you from too far for you to do anything to him. I see you trying to ftilt him out of taking lasers. This is good, you just need to learn the spacing for which this works a little better. Another thing you should work in is immediately dashing away after taking lasers at closer range. You'll bait approaches like crazy and get pivot grabs out of it.

-Further expanding upon this point of falco being far away from you. Your powershields aren't doing much because you're so far away from him. In general, whenever I see you drop a combo or miss a tech chase and neutral position resets, it seems like you voluntarily give falco a TON of room to restart laser spam and ultimately approach on his own terms. Just because you missed a tech chase does not mean the pressure is over. You want to be in falco's face. He will break you down if you allow him to laser you endlessly from all the way across stage. I'm not saying you need to be overly rushing him, but stay "in his face." Don't let him feel comfortable lasering. If you give him as much time and space as you're giving him, it's his advantage, not yours. If you close the space he'll be more likely to give you an opening, plus, as you're already doing some, you can get dash attacks out of the closer range fighting.

-dash attacks are amazing, look for them even more.

-be wary of spacies bair. You're running into it a bit. Understandable, it's one of the best moves in this game, but being aware of when you are and aren't safe from his bair is very key for survival.

 

[Rubyiris]

So why was my post ignored in favor of someone who posted AFTER me? :\

 

[Niko45]

Ruby in all seriousness it's hard to critique you playing against this guy who you are way better than and he's not even playing his main (sheik player, right?) AND it's friendlies. If you really want me to I'll try, though.

 

[stelzig]

Thanks niko. Yeah being in his face has worked for me before so it's probably something I should try to do more.
The thing about just taking lasers is something I just started trying to do more because his brother who also uses marth (but doesn't play much) appearently does this to great succes, glad to hear it's actually a good idea

Dashing out of taking a laser sounds like a great idea that I really haven't been thinking of myself I kinda wish I had someone I could go test this on right away (though I kinda failed every pivot grab attempt in the above matches... lol I suck )

Thanks for the tips, i'll be playing this guy again in about two weeks so we'll see if it helps. Maybe i'll post vids again.

The ganon match should be up tommorow.

 

[Rubyiris]

Ruby in all seriousness it's hard to critique you playing against this guy who you are way better than and he's not even playing his main (sheik player, right?) AND it's friendlies. If you really want me to I'll try, though.

He pretty much equally mains Sheik and Fox and has been debating on dropping them for Falco.

 

[V3ctorMan]

He should drop them for a character like...

hmmmmmm..

Yoshi's pretty good...<3



























































sorta... he can't get shield-stabbed... that's good right!?

 

[Niko45]

Lol vectorman. Ruby I'll do the fox at some point maybe tomorrow. Too tired right now.

In other news my vids just went up:

Vs. otg (Doc/Falco)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE2cYJH-G8Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=911QLG5Urco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWdRoDQVHAk

Any tips on playing on RC particularly appreciated.

Vs. Jesiahteg (Sheik)

Set 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PCnp0yq_eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-I7M39t294
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaDwc2zIWZc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghwkbrSAuCg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHTBfZEo_J8

Set 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iPJYlEXeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df3e33W6H9U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgx76HSe2h4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5W8vjLms3c

I feel like I got more comfortable as we kept playing, but the sets were both really close. I really want to work on this matchup so appreciate any feedback.

 

[Wenbobular]

Just gonna comment on Cruise because that's my preferred counterpick vs ... basically anyone haha

Could've been more patient edgeguarding the up-b, otg didn't sweetspot the phantasm like he could've and you could've easily reacted with an Fsmash (I don't think he was at a height that would've grabbed the ledge fast enough to get past Fsmash)

Some reason he's like totally content to shoot lasers from the left instead of abusing Marth's less than stellar aerial mobility during the jumping part

Since he gave up the forward position I think you should've waited it out on the right side instead of trying to chase him, he just ran past you when you did
If you jump down onto the swinging pendulum bridge thing you're free to upair him through the falling bricks with impunity because he can't drop down from them, just make sure you try to make it to the platforms that appear on the right before he does

You can actually stand on the platforms before they appear I believe, so you could have jumped to them right before you lost your first stock and been safer

That shield breaker on the ship was super random xD

Didn't jump to the pendulum when you could have, was early on trying to get to the platforms when they spawned ... you can fix those pretty easily by just learning the timings by yourself as they don't change

Basically I think you should always try to stay ahead in terms of where the stage is and learn the stage timings if you're not going to ban it (what did you ban instead, Brinstar?)

Random Cruise things
If you didn't know already ...

None of the falling blocks can be dropped through
Pretty sure none of the carpets can be dropped through
Pretty sure none of the long dark thin platforms can be dropped through

The pendulum CAN be dropped through, so beware

Pendulum spawns right on the minute mark I think

Platforms start spawning left of the boat at around 32 seconds, you can get to them before you see them I believe

 

[Rubyiris]

i need more help with falco than any other matchup as marth. Comment on thatb one. >_>

 

[DJMirror]

Niko your insight and advices is amazing


keep it up

*thumbs up*


Tell Jesiah I said hi! =D

 

[Wenbobular]

Well I don't play Marth haha
I only commented on his Cruise match because I play on Cruise

Also vote on my poll please.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293221
English paper!

 

[Tee ay eye]

Niko your insight and advices is amazing


keep it up

*thumbs up*


Tell Jesiah I said hi! =D

Niko gives pretty sound advice

ALSO JASON

I KNEW YOU'D LIKE CLANNAD <33

Are we still MMing for $2 at GSG2? If you MM me for 5, I'll commit to my 10 dollar MM with Johnny.

 

[DJMirror]

Niko gives pretty sound advice

ALSO JASON

I KNEW YOU'D LIKE CLANNAD <33

Are we still MMing for $2 at GSG2? If you MM me for 5, I'll commit to my 10 dollar MM with Johnny.

LOL I like the second season way more than the first one


yeah we're still mming for 2 bucks

 

[Tee ay eye]

LOL I like the second season way more than the first one

I TOLD you that ~After Story~ was leagues better than the first season!

 

[Rubyiris]

So Tai, how about some critique? ;D

Falco MU go.

 

[Wenbobular]

I watched the first match

The Falco misses some Lcancels on your shield and doesn't really laser you in a particularly threatening manner

You missed too many edgeguards where you both have time to set up and Falco's using up-b from below (i.e., more than 1 haha)
Just grab the ledge and fastfall -> side-b or Bair ... gotta be decisive, as soon as you see Falco doesn't have his double jump and is below the stage out of airdodge range you need to be immediately going for the ledge

Tell your Falco buddy to stop doing early Dairs on your shield =_=

 

[Niko45]

lol thanks Tai + DJ. Now give ME some help. :D

Thanks Wenbo. I have no idea how to play on RC so that was actually all really helpful.

 

[Tee ay eye]

So Tai, how about some critique? ;D

Falco MU go.

i don't feel like i know the falco matchup *thoroughly* enough, but i just know certain aspects of it really really well, so i'm specialized against like, active smart falcos who try to play me head-to-head like sean, zhu, and axe (especially axe), while i have comparatively more trouble with falcos who sorta try to cheese or just exploit a few things in the matchup like you, or more especially, certain other campy, cheesy falco players.

 

[Wenbobular]

lol thanks Tai + DJ. Now give ME some help. :D

Thanks Wenbo. I have no idea how to play on RC so that was actually all really helpful.

Glad I could be of some help haha
Also I remember you said you secondary Fox, why didn't you try him in that game? Not confident to go Fox yet in tournament?

I assumed Cruise was the reason you'd ever pick up a secondary xD

Especially because Fox vs Doc on Cruise seems like a terrible matchup for Doc because if you ever lose stage control (very easily given Fox's speed) you're kinda forced by the stage to run after Fox ... which is never really a good thing given how good Fox's Bair is at stuffing approaches

Vs Falco it just seems like like Fox has the better recovery / speed to get around everything on Cruise to stay ahead in terms of stage

Although playing Marth seemed to work out fine vs a non-Falco main

 

[Niko45]

Nah, I don't play fox in tournament. If anything I'd use him in teams.

I feel like my fox can rival my Marth in competitiveness if I have a lot of time to warm it up and get into a good rhythm. But yea, in tournament, under pressure, for one single game - no.

Also otg is pretty much a dual main now using Falco as well. He just has no clue how to play on RC either. Idk what he was thinking lol.

Idk RC doesn't seem terrible for Marth really the ship section is a pretty "normal" stage so you just do standard **** stuff there and try to make the best of the moving around parts and its not like a really great CP against Marth imo.

I'm really just waiting for East Coast to realize that that stage sucks and ban it like it seems WC has now done.

 

[otg]

I tried to pull a PP

 

[Rubyiris]

i don't feel like i know the falco matchup *thoroughly* enough, but i just know certain aspects of it really really well, so i'm specialized against like, active smart falcos who try to play me head-to-head like sean, zhu, and axe (especially axe), while i have comparatively more trouble with falcos who sorta try to cheese or just exploit a few things in the matchup like you, or more especially, certain other campy, cheesy falco players.

I wouldn't call what I do cheesing. Cheesing is why I did to you in pools, last tournament. (The game I won.)

But yeah I'm not good at fighting people heads up with Falco. xD

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Niko your insight and advices is amazing


keep it up

*thumbs up*


Tell Jesiah I said hi! =D

So Tai, how about some critique? ;D

Falco MU go.

I want love too

 

[Wenbobular]

I think Cruise is a fun stage
But I play Fox and Falcon haha

 

[ChivalRuse]

Cruise blows. Kongo ftw.

 

[Dart!]

i find cruise to be more fun than congo. i mean, half the battle is stage knowledge and it can be super crazy when both players know the stage well.

Congo's just kinda big....really...big.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yes. But. See. I don't play Marth.

 

[Wenbobular]

Well you see Joe this is a Marth forum...

Also I don't like Kongo because it's big too <_<

 

[Taj278]

i don't feel like i know the falco matchup *thoroughly* enough, but i just know certain aspects of it really really well, so i'm specialized against like, active smart falcos who try to play me head-to-head like sean, zhu, and axe (especially axe), while i have comparatively more trouble with falcos who sorta try to cheese or just exploit a few things in the matchup like you, or more especially, certain other campy, cheesy falco players.

What about my reaction Falco? :D

 

[Niko45]

Taj give me advice vs sheik!

 

[Rubyiris]

Sooo, when am I going to get dat vs Falco critique? :|

 

[Dart!]

Sooo, when am I going to get dat vs Falco critique? :|

powershield, fair out of shield, light shield mixups. dash attack under lasers. dictate the match early or it will be hard to get a solid lead.

 

[Rubyiris]

powershield, fair out of shield, light shield mixups. dash attack under lasers. dictate the match early or it will be hard to get a solid lead.

I know how to PLAY the Falco matchup. I was asking for in-depth analysis of what I was doing wrong and what to do differently.

 

[Wenbobular]

Your opponent was bad. What do you want us to say <_<

I don't think the better Marth mains will give you much more in depth critique than I did ... the Falco wasn't exactly forcing you to do anything special to get grabs (he was like, handing them to you for free)

*Edit*
I assume you meant vs Cooper