Evaluation/Help your G&W,Video Critique Thread,Updated (11-01-09))

[-Ominous-]

Once i get some videos i will add them here lol

Same with me.

 

[Mr.Jake and Skate]

Does anyone have a Dazzle or something i have replays but no way to record =[

 

[PentaSalia]

i have dazzle=)

i'll record it for u if u like lol

msg me if ur wiicode when u can

 

[Mr.Jake and Skate]

Sent it to you =D

 

[NatP]

Ok, hum, if anyone has the patience to sit through two boring sets, could you please critique my g&w vs this fox?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV7uhkqE5ms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX7-DGe4xS0

It was a pretty frustrating set considering we were playing in "overtime". The venue we were at was supposed to be closed, and they were waiting for US to stop playing. Plus the fact that I had to play 3 sets in a row with the same guy, all Bo5. >.<

 

[King Funk]

Ok, hum, if anyone has the patience to sit through two boring sets, could you please critique my g&w vs this fox?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV7uhkqE5ms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX7-DGe4xS0

It was a pretty frustrating set considering we were playing in "overtime". The venue we were at was supposed to be closed, and they were waiting for US to stop playing. Plus the fact that I had to play 3 sets in a row with the same guy, all Bo5. >.<

=(

I liekd last kill on 1st round. It's dat Maylay training!

 

[NatP]

Lol, that really WAS a great kill. Totally unexpected for sure!

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Ok, hum, if anyone has the patience to sit through two boring sets, could you please critique my g&w vs this fox?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV7uhkqE5ms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX7-DGe4xS0

It was a pretty frustrating set considering we were playing in "overtime". The venue we were at was supposed to be closed, and they were waiting for US to stop playing. Plus the fact that I had to play 3 sets in a row with the same guy, all Bo5. >.<

I'm terrible at advice, but I can tell you that you need to rethink your usage of your aerials. For starters, dair onto your opponent is the worst way to the ground, and fair has too much ending lag to be used low to the ground or on shields. Dair to the ground is situational and requires spacing. I know it's a very tempting option, and I find myself falling for its allure time and again, only to regret it. There was an instance at the beginning of that Delphino fight where you used dair to dtilt very effectively. I saw you fast-falling fair near the ground with limited effectiveness. I think the main problem I'm seeing is a lack of safe approach options being utilized. You can space bair on shield very safely. If you're going to double hop and come down with an aerial, always make it bair. Fair is worthless on shield. You can even land away from them with bair, throw out some dtilts, and proceed to shield pressure.
I liked your usage of jab to grab and utilt. I noticed you know how to tech chase, and it really just seemed like you didn't know the Fox MU.
Something you could look to do more is use UpB to escape from undesirable situations, and use more bacon when people are far off the stage. Like I said, I'm terrible at advice and I usually only end up pointing out mistakes and not knowing what kind of advice to give to remedy them. Maybe it's because I'm not that good myself. I think I'll put up some vids and ask for critique myself.

 

[Exdeath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUhlKrUDDZY

Game 1:

:18 - You need to practice picking up items. I don't know what your practice schedule is (if you have one), but just adding in a minute of picking up items in different ways, speeds, and situations will really help with your items control in general. Also, learn to pick up with Jab and Dtilt. Messing up a grab with Ftilt can lead you into a kill situation or a strong punish against pretty much every character that you would need to pick up an item against.

:25 - Why did you Utilt?

:32 - I understand why you attempted to do something other than shield/Up-B, but Up-B would have covered every option in that situation/spacing (including air dodge; it would have caught the landing lag). Up-B was guaranteed the moment that ZSS picked up the armor piece.

:33 - Falling with Fair after the Dair would have been better. ZSS was too close for Side-B and didn't have the spacing with any other move to beat it.

:38 - You reacted to ZSS walking away from you with a Dsmash. Even if ZSS wasn't picking up the armor piece, you could have been grabbed.

:42 - It's usually a bad idea to jump in ZSS' face. When you're in her face like that, you want to go with shielding, jab, tilts, Up-B, etc. ZSS' jab will out-speed G&W's, but she doesn't get much reward out of it. In addition to this, there is a mechanical timing to SDI ZSS' jab for a guaranteed punish (which includes Dsmash if she buffers the full jab) when you are jabbing. IIRC G&W's jab out-speeds her tilts and definitely out-speeds her Dsmash. She can't really do much against your shield. Once she hits you with Dsmash, you can pretty much just jab her if she tries to Dsmash/grab and shield>punish if she tries anything else except retreating.

:47 - Fast-falling an air dodge isn't very punishable for ZSS unless it's on a hard read, especially since you still had your second jump.

:52 - Practice the spacing/timing(s) for ledge trapping. ZSS is at her most vulnerable on the ledge and she doesn't really have any good options to return to the stage. When ZSS ledge releases, you can Dtilt>react to cover any option except for re-grabbing the ledge, which is a reset. Don't get greedy; ZSS will eventually give you a guaranteed Fair for the kill.

:57 - When you have the landing frame advantage like that, jabbing is a pretty good option. It out-speeds everything that she has and she can't punish G&W's jab on her shield very well. Once she shields it, you can react to her spacing. If she's out of your jab range then she'll probably either tilt you (you can shield it and punish that), grab you (you can react from the shield with a dodge), or Dsmash (see the earlier comment on Dsmash).

1:03 - Don't jump at ZSS like that when she is spacing. Her kill moves/set-ups (Dsmash and Side-B) with safely out-range everything that you can do. When I'm returning to the stage, I like to either wait for ZSS to start a ledge trapping pattern and then hard read them with it. Otherwise, I like to use the standard "air dodge onto the stage" or Up-B onto the stage. When you're going to air dodge onto the stage, be careful about how close you are to the ledge.

When I'm landing by the ledge with my air dodge and ZSS Dsmashes my shield, every ZSS player I've played against (except for Nick Riddle) will either Dsmash again or Side-B. Side-B will probably shield poke and both are quite safe/open me up for a lot of shield poking options that include all of her kill moves. Both of these lose to jab OoS and dash attack (I prefer the latter because I'm less likely to mistake the spacing). If you have a shield that won't be shield poked by Side-B, dash shield is also viable and usually your best punish. When I Up-B onto the stage on stages like Battlefield and Smashville (when the platform is near), I prefer to time it during a Dsmash and space it so that I can dodge what will probably be a Uair and then Dair/Up-B their second Uair if I expect them to mis-space it on my shield.

1:04 - When you Up-B to the ledge when ZSS is spaced like that, you have a small window to react to her (which would have been her stock there). When ZSS Up-bed (after you had grabbed the ledge), You could have Up-Bed away from the stage and returned to the ledge before she could Up-B the ledge again or you could have foot stooled her. Both options would have ended her stock.

1:13 - You shouldn't have Baired when you saw that ZSS rolled away. ZSS had a guaranteed punish that they didn't take.

1:19 - You missed a guaranteed grab.

1:26 - Don't fall with Nair in that position. You had little chance of hitting ZSS unless they went for some something silly like Fair and mis-spaced it.

1:36 - When ZSS jumps over you like that, Up-B beats everything except for Down-B and air dodge. Air dodge would put you in a poor position (on a platform) and, depending on the spacing, Down-B can rise with Up-B and send you at a terrible angle that kills quite early. Another alternative is Nair OoS, but that doesn't fair well on reaction in my experience.

1:37 - When ZSS jumps away like that, dashing shield puts her in a fairly bad position. What I generally react to after dashing forward is Up-B if she does anything other than air dodge and Usmash if she air dodges (which would probably have killed ZSS at that percent).

1:41 - Again, Up-Bing away from the stage would send her too far out for her to recover. The only reason that you got the gimp was because the player was too greedy.

1:46 - Don't Uair in ZSS' face near kill percents.

2:04 - You really lost control here. Why would you roll toward the ledge at the ledge?

2:16 - When you Dtilted ZSS, you could have grabbed the ledge and then ledge release>Fair for the gimp.

2:40 - Don't be afraid to throw ZSS back off stage and continue to ledge trap her. It's usually a better option than Dthrow.

2:57 - Don't just throw out committed moves like Bair, especially at kill percents.

3:06 - Practice reacting to punishing air dodging into you with Up-B.

3:25 - Shield Down-B>punish, although I believe that you already know that.

3:28 - Although it shield poked earlier in the match, it is still generally a bad idea to commit to something on the ledge until you see an opening in your opponent. There's nothing wrong with waiting at the ledge.

3:31 - Again, don't fall with Nair. If ZSS read that Fair, it could have been your stock (Down-B).

3:43 - Punish a missed grab with dash grab.

3:49 - When ZSS spot dodges right next to you like that, drop shield>turn around>jab is a great option.

3:53 - ZSS' Uair beats G&W's Dair. The ZSS missed the guaranteed punish (Nair) anyway.

3:54 - I meant to mention it earlier, but stop spot dodging when ZSS jumps. There are very few times when it's a good idea to spot dodge against ZSS. Her dash attack, Neutral B, Side-B, etc. beat non-specific spot dodging.

3:55 - Don't just throw out Fair.

3:59 - There is so little point to rolling in this match-up that I wouldn't say that it's an entirely bad idea to never roll at all in it.

4:01 - Don't just throw out Up-B.

4:03 - Don't use Neutral B when your opponent is too short to be hit by it while below you.

4:06 - That was a guaranteed kill for ZSS.

4:09 - Don't Ftilt ZSS' shield.

4:20 - It was mainly because of the invincibility, but this is another example of why you shouldn't just throw out Bair at ZSS.

Judging from how you play, I suggest that you take a break from Wi-Fi (I'm guessing that you use Wi-Fi) and practice acting on reaction. Also, you clearly panicked during the latter part of the match.

 

[Lifes]

I'd like to know what are my principal mistakes in the way that I use G&W

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i88bqQ0fH6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Occu340U2Rg

 

[derkapalooza]

hey guys i know the g&w boards are kinda dead these days :/

but do you think i could get a critique of my set?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbktlTWnsO8

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Nice use of nair. Needs less dair on shield, more upair follow ups on the bacon, and more dthrow tech-chasing. Dthrow to dsmash doesn't work on most people, and if they've rolled out of it once you can bet money they'll roll out of it again. You should learn to start connecting with smash attacks as soon as they get at kill percents. Upsmash and tippered dsmash start killing off the top at around 80 generally. Against DK, it's probably more like 90 or 100, but you can also gay him out of his jumps once he's off the stage and then spike him out of his recovery.
Umm... Like I said, less dair into your opponent's shield. Once you get hit, don't always come back with an attack or try to dair onto their head when they follow up, especially against someone like DK who can't really follow you upwards. Run away and hide behind lasting hitboxes more whenever you're at higher percents, G&W can be very hard to catch when you want him to be. Also, bucket braking. :D
You got a hell of a lot of grabs and did a lot of nice things out of nair.
Carpool with the RGV Melee crew to Oh Snap. We can play friendlies and stuff, not to mention the more G&W the merrier.

 

[derkapalooza]

thanks for the critique man. but yea i know i was making some dumb mistakes with the overuse of d-airs and such. chaos griffin (the dk player) is one of my usual practice partners, so sometimes i tend to be a little reckless or go into auto pilot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZXw3br1O3Y

this is another of my usual partner, his sheik is also a real challenge for me.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I hear ya on the autopilot dairs, I get so pissed off when I catch myself doing it. It just feels like a good idea, and sometimes it is, but a lot of the time it's exactly what your opponent is expecting. I think my main beef with dair is that whenever other character boards discuss the G&W MU, one thing I see time and again is something along the lines of "whenever a G&W is above you, 90% of the time they'll use dair."
First match, nice gimp first stock. Second match, nice read on the airdodge at the end.
Against Sheik a lot of the things I saw were just basic playstyle habits and not anything character specific. You got quite a few rolls punished, and you ate a lot of unnecessary damage trying to airdodge to dsmash for a kill. Patience is a virtue, and G&W has better approaches/set-ups than airdodging in. UpB is the best GTFO move in the game, and once you're clear of danger don't be so quick to rush back in.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The main thing that people forget about D-air to the ground is the option of slowfalling the D-air at ANY POINT DURING THE MOVE. Learning how to autocancel the D-air in this manner is VERY helpful when trying to get to the ground.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

How exactly do you slow fall dair anyway? I can't ever do it consistantly

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

You fast-fall dair and it actually goes slower than usual. Just use the cstick, it auto-fastfalls everybody's dair lol. I think you might have to hold down on the control stick as well, I should go check this.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Weird, I feel like even using the c-stick still gives me the regular speed one, I'll do some testing.

Thanks.

EDIT: Hoooooooly **** I just tried it out. You just have to press down at any point during the move and it slows it down? Why am I just now learning about this? And how come I've never seen a G&W do this before!?

Not that I've seen many Game and Watches in battle, but still!

 

[A2ZOMG]

All the good G&Ws slowfall D-air all the time. I'm pretty sure you'll see UTD Zac pull it off here and there.

I should also mention, it's an AMAZING edgeguard.

G&W's slowfall D-air is technically a fastfalled D-air. The thing is G&W's fastfall speed is slower than the speed at which his D-air propels him downwards.

 

[Splice]

and yes learn to autocancel it using the slowfall.
I find it a great bait because people never expect autocancel dair

Although i dont autocancel in serious matches much
Too worried ill get teh lagzz QQ

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Quick, any last second tips for the tourney I'm going to tomorrow?

Anything at all would probably help(Y'know, besides stuff like bucket braking, other basics etc) especially against Kirby and MK.

Also, when you say auto-cancel, are you still talking about the slow-fall d-air? or is it something else completly/just related to it?

 

[overgamer]

Quick, any last second tips for the tourney I'm going to tomorrow?

Anything at all would probably help(Y'know, besides stuff like bucket braking, other basics etc) especially against Kirby and MK.

Also, when you say auto-cancel, are you still talking about the slow-fall d-air? or is it something else completly/just related to it?

Auto cancel are aerial that end their recovery frames before you touch the ground, or simply don't have any recovery frames when you hit the land (or very few I guess). Tell me if I'm wrong.

Against MK, you can punish his Tornado on shield hit with Up-B. About an auto cancel option, try to learn the ledge drop > double jump > Fair auto cancel on platform return. It's been pointed out by A2ZOMG and it's really nice for comming back to the stage. It's hard to do at first, but it becomes more and more efficient as you train. Also always full hop your Fair if you can. Also try to full hop Bair, it's much more effective in dealing with opponent SDI up/sideways up. Short hop Aerials on shield usually end up with you getting grabbed, or punished.

And try to play as many friendly as you can. The more you play the more you'll understand what you can do and what you can't.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Quick, any last second tips for the tourney I'm going to tomorrow?

Anything at all would probably help(Y'know, besides stuff like bucket braking, other basics etc) especially against Kirby and MK.

Also, when you say auto-cancel, are you still talking about the slow-fall d-air? or is it something else completly/just related to it?

You shouldn't really lose to Kirby once you realize that he really just can't challenge G&W directly 90% of the time. Alternate between being patient with D-tilts/B-airs and rushing him down with Jabs/sliding shieldgrabs/aerials. Do those in response to his approach and defense respectively. Your throw game WRECKS him because he'll either get destroyed by your juggles as long as you stay just slightly out of his Down-B range, or your options out of D-throw against him are really good.

He's also one of the easiest characters in the game for G&W to edgeguard. There really isn't any risk in rushing down his recovery with F-airs/B-airs especially since his midair jumps are bad and easy to react to, and if he recovers low, it's a free D-air or ledgedrop B-air/Judgement.

And yeah, autocanceling the D-air so that you don't go into the landing animation is important. You can do this consistently by practicing the mechanics of slowfalling and learning the distances/timing that work.


Against Metaknight, he's actually deceptively easy for G&W to edgeguard. If he's gliding, try to knock him out of it with Up-B/N-air. If he recovers low, D-air. Don't slowfall it until it hits him. The tricky one to deal with his his mid level recovery options. I'm not sure entirely what consistently beats them myself, besides just hitting him before he starts his specials.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Thanks to you both.

 

[PentaSalia]

Hey G&W boards.

If anyone wants a replay uploaded but is unable to get it recorded, feel free to ask me xD. I know some of you suggest it sometimes but are often ignored/too shy to ask.

I'll need your wiicode of course,leave me a pm

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Me losing to a Bowser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et8tGZO0TLk
Me losing badly to Olimar on FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPKNGZZH-N8
Where did I go so wrong?
More stuff on my channel if you feel like watching more of my failings.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Bowser is easy. Just fullhop B-air/F-air all day. D-throw -> techchase U-smash/regrab all day (his tech is slower than average if I recall) or just U-throw and never let him get back to the ground. Be super aggressive when edgeguarding him and make sure he takes 60% minimum when he's sent offstage. He has no recovery options against your aerials, and his ledge getup options lose horribly to shield (U-smash/F-smash/D-smash oos against his ledge attack for example, it's extremely easy to react to Bowser's other ledge options either with shieldgrab, N-air oos, B-air oos).

Also don't spotdodge against him. You don't need to. Just poke him a lot with fullhop aerials and let your infinitely better juggles and edgeguards take over once Bowser is off his feet. If you're not taking off 80% of his stock from a single juggle or edgeguard string at some point in the match, you need to work on your edgeguards and juggles plain and simple.

On BF, you can also D-tilt him while standing on platforms. This works well for edgetrapping him too.

Lastly Bowser's D-smash should never kill you. Especially if you know how to DI Pikachu's D-smash, you should never let that move fully connect on you.

Honestly Bowser doesn't have the tools against G&W. Your spacing game is just too powerful, his size hinders him tremendously, and he gets UTTERLY WRECKED once he's hit off his feet just due to his complete lack of any options to deal with juggles, edgeguards, and edgetraps. It's honestly overkill how hard you can punish him.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Many thanks to Makke for uploading this match for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C456qD3ulkI

This was from a Loser's bracket match at a tourney I went to recently, this was the second match in the set(the first one I won as DK) And critique and what not would be appreciated.

Things I noticed while watching this match again:

-I use d-air a lot one of my lifes, and even d-air into a grenade, oops.
-Despite me saying in the other thread that I think a good portion of the time short hop f-air is bad, I use it a few times in the match when I'm not sure whether or not it will connect.

Overall, I think I did pretty good in this match.

EDIT: For anyone curious about what U.A. stands for, it stands for Undead Apparition.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Many thanks to Makke for uploading this match for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C456qD3ulkI

This was from a Loser's bracket match at a tourney I went to recently, this was the second match in the set(the first one I won as DK) And critique and what not would be appreciated.

Things I noticed while watching this match again:

-I use d-air a lot one of my lifes, and even d-air into a grenade, oops.
-Despite me saying in the other thread that I think a good portion of the time short hop f-air is bad, I use it a few times in the match when I'm not sure whether or not it will connect.

Overall, I think I did pretty good in this match.

EDIT: For anyone curious about what U.A. stands for, it stands for Undead Apparition.

Yars, dont roll too much w/ G&W, his roll dodge is rly terrible, you'll get punished easily and practice more on your juggling.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Hi,

Anyone can help me with my G&W? I started playing like 1 year ago... and i really want to be better.

Some of my replays:

vs Olimar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeqhfBamX7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVMefYrYm8E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_L1FIyWICw

Thanks for your help!!!!

 

[Jr555]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwscN11WgXI

First vid I've sent for review, I can see a lot of what I did wrong in this match, but I'm hoping you guys see some other stuff I don't. Also I'd like to think I've made some big improvements since this, but it's only 2 months ago so I could be fooling myself haha.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Hi guys!!!

Can you evaluate my G&W? Maybe you can tell me some advices....

It is the first match from a Grand final set :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ruLSZjksls

 

[Jr555]

Hi guys!!!

Can you evaluate my G&W? Maybe you can tell me some advices....

It is the first match from a Grand final set :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ruLSZjksls

In terms of habits I see that you could work on:
-Be careful not to throw out as many unsafe Fairs close to the ground like you were, that can be punished hard.
-You need to use the attempt at Dash attack stage spiking less blatantly. If you're going to make the most out of trying to do it at all, it should be after you've seen your opponent float near the ledge before grabbing it, not just all over the place early match (if it's not a read, you'll probably get read for doing so more than once).
-Be careful not to telegraph your Dairs as much. They did manage to shield poke vs d3 but he can angle his shield and get a free utilt or possibly a grab.
-Be sure not to use Dair as much in the 50-120% range, the less it stales the more viable a kill option it is later. Also it's less predictable and safer.
-You missed several grab opportunities because you attempted smashes or dash attacks instead. When I used to do this it was because I was too eager to hit the opponent, and wasn't considering what the best option was. Just be aware of when it's a good choice to grab because it's essential to G&W.


Things I liked :

-Solid Aerial mobility.
-Decent use of the turlte.
-Good use of uair
-Decent option coverage when catching the opponent standing still.
-Constant shield pressure was excellent when you didn't over commit.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Thanks for your comments, I'll try to improve those points and I'll show you another demo on few months and we'll see if I improved my game

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Hi again G&W board,

I'm here again and I need some new advices to improve my g&w game.

Here some vids from the last tournament in Spain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLkpX2h0S-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNhula3rrko

There is something I noticed. I used to OOS up b every hit on my shield (It is a AT that we use against MK, but I think that G&W should use it against every hit on their shield) because It is impressive and puts your enemy above you and you can juggle fast and hard. Check me demos and tell me what you think.

If you want to say something i did worng, please tell me the exact time on the replays,THANKS!!!!!

Comments would be appreciated. Regards.