Escape to the Surface, Octolings for Smash

fogbadge

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Hello all I have volunteered to take our this thread as our friend BluePikmin11 was looking for a new owner for reasons its not my business to share

welcome to the support thread for the octolings from splatoon, though fan favourite enemies turned player characters in their own story expansion



octoling are the octarian version of inklings being able to switch between humanoid and octopus forms at will, introduced as enemies in splatoon's story mode as members of the octarian army, they returned in splatoon 2 in much the same role but now with one of them as one of the games most important npcs. they are expanded on further in story dlc octo expansion where its revealed many have abandoned the octarian army and headed for inkopolis to live lives similar to that of the inkling (though the inklings dont seem to notice)

so they are a major part of a series which could yet grow into an even bigger franchise, i dont think we've seen the last of splatoon and as it grows im sure theyll add more characters to smash with the octolings being a major candidate. in both games octolings function exactly as the inklings making them natural echoes, however there is a lot of unused stuff in splatoon so they could just as easily have entirely unique movesets. so please lets us carry on the discussion, tell us your ideas we do love to hear them

supporters
1. BluePikmin11
2. PeridotGX
3. Inawordyes
4. Nerd Saga Nate
5. ZealousGamer
6. SEGAGameBoy
7. fogbadge
8. Jave
9. Octavium
10. FarquadMoses
11. waddledeeonredyoshi
12. DelphoxFan97
13. Tikivoy
14. Captain Shades
15. GolisoPower
16. Midnight Torch
17. scoobymcsnack
18. NineS
19. Rie Sonomura
20. Guybrush20X6
21. Mushroomguy12
22. pupNapoleon
23. NeonVoid
 
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PeridotGX

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Pretty safe bet for a last minute clone. I'll be surprised if they aren't in. I can imagine the Splatoon Team asking Sakurai to add the Octolings as part of the "Year of the Octoling" thing. Supported, I geuss?
 

GoodGrief741

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My best bet is they’re skins. With the Octo Expansion and the new Smash (and the Inklings’ presence in it) being announced on the same day, the brand synergy is just too strong for them not to be in.
 

Inawordyes

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I've no doubt that the Octoling Expansion has been worked on for a long while, but Splatoon 2 wasn't even a thing officially at the time in 2016 when the roster would have been decided. I really hope that the Octolings at least get in as an alt costume, but moreso than pretty much everybody else because their "base form" is in an expansion that was just announced, the timing may be an issue in having them make a playable appearance.

But I'd be all for it, and if they got in as a last-minute clone I'd be really happy.
 

Starcutter

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I think they are possible. Probably would be their story mode designs and not the octo-expansion ones if they made it.
 

BluePikmin11

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Ok, I have a topic for you guys to discuss. I was considering removing Octolings from my predictions until I re-read this portion of a Sakurai article:

"Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!"

Do you think Octolings act different enough from Inklings in terms of characteristics of attacks for them to be separate characters on the roster?
 
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PeridotGX

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Ok, I have a topic for you guys to discuss. I was considering removing Octolings from my predictions until I re-read this portion of a Sakurai article:

"Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!"

Do you think Octolings act different enough from Inklings in terms of characteristics of attacks for them to be separate characters on the roster?
I don't think that would be the deciding factor, I think it would be the potential for unique differences. I think Octoling would be like Wolf's Specials to Fox's specials, with weird different properties. Where Inkling has the Roller, the Octolings could use a multi-hit Inkbrush. Where Inkling uses a Splat Bomb, the Octoling could use a fast-but-weak Burst Bomb, or a mobile Curling Bomb. Where Inkling uses a normal Charger, the Octolings could use a quick but weak Bamboozler.
 

BluePikmin11

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When you put it that way, you have a point. With the variety of weapons Splatoon has, I find it hard for Sakurai to not pass up the opportunity. He would want to make Octolings separate characters.

And another question. Do the Octolings in Splatoon 1 + 2 have their own special move? I am thinking about this and comparing the situation to Dark Pit and how he was separated due to the Great Sacred Treasures FS for Pit.
 
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ZealousGamer

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Whether as skins or separate characters I'll support. However, to be fair to fans of other characters I think skins might be the fairest option at this point. There are only so many characters Sakurai will add.
 

WeirdChillFever

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When you put it that way, you have a point. With the variety of weapons Splatoon has, I find it hard for Sakurai to not pass up the opportunity. He would want to make Octolings separate characters.

And another question. Do the Octolings in Splatoon 1 + 2 have their own special move? I am thinking about this and comparing the situation to Dark Pit and how he was separated due to the Great Sacred Treasures FS for Pit.
In Splatoon 1, they're basically AI controlled Inklings, being mostly defined by their lack of moves, using only the Splat Bomb, Super Jump and Octoshot (which acts exactly the same as the Splattershot)

The Octoshot did have a different kit in Splatoon multiplayer, having the Suction Bombs, which are slower Splat Bombs that stick to surfaces and have a bigger explosion range, and the Inkzooka, which shoots vertical columns of ink forwards.
On top of that, one of the Inkbrushes was called the "Octobrush", being a slower/stronger Ink Brush, trading running speed for ink coverage and range.
However, Octolings never used these weapons.

Octarians have used a wider range of items, with each Octarian having their own weapon from single player to demonstrate such as Inkstrike and a Charger.

In Splatoon 2, Octolings also use Blasters, Sloshers and Rollers, but without any properties that sets these weapons apart from the Inklings.

(I have not played the Octo Expansion, which introduces a lot more lore and weaponry for the new "Agent 8", who is an Octoling, albeit with a different design.)
 

Mr. Nintendo

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While I think they'd make a cool clone addition, I don't think they'd actually make it.

Before this year, they're role the series was basically just a higher call of enemy. They weren't really any more important than a miniboss. Not important enough anyway to be prioritized over other Inkling outfits, or even the squid sisters.

The Octo expansion changes things considerably. But I feel that it might be too late for them, even as a clone. I know Roy got in Melee before his game released but his game was delayed. We didn't know about Octo expansion until this year. So I don't think an Octoling alt was planned. It is possible Sakurai had inside knowledge though.


I would like the Octolings, I'm just not sure how likely it is.

Also I hate the male haircut, probably the worst one yet. I wish they'd include a more standard haircut for the guys. Something like the Default hair from UltraSun and UltraMoon Pokemon games would be nice. I just don't want a pony tail or mohawk or definitely not that bald cut thing. At least there's hats I guess
 

WeirdChillFever

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I don't think there were any design documents on Agent 8 in 2016, which leaves us with the story mode baddie Octolings.
It's even possible Inklings only pull from their Splatoon 1 incarnation since the trailer featured the Splatoon 1 main design for both Boy and Girl, instead of the pink and green ones with the cool hair.

I can't exactly pin-point a timeframe where Octoling demand was high, but if it was 2016 Octolings have a better chance than when fans just gave up and waited for Splatoon 2.
 

BluePikmin11

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Something very interesting that I found:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...super-smash-bros-diaries.aspx?PostPageIndex=4

Why did the team decide to include two versions of Pit instead of using a color swap?
Allow me to explain a bit about clone type fighters.

In the beginning, I didn’t plan to make any of them as separate character variations (clones), but rather as color variations like Alph or Little Mac. This was even if we were going to use different voices for them. However, any character that gained some uniqueness through their balancing needed to be separated so their results and statistics could be counted properly. It wouldn’t have been fair to have the results counted together even though their strengths differ between the variations.

Lucina was the first to be split off; this is because we made Marth’s moves more standard so he could be easy to handle by novice players.

Dr. Mario already had a clear uniqueness, so by letting this character throw the fireball in his Dr. Mario costume or by cutting out his clear uniqueness that was established in Super Smash Bros. Melee, we could anger fans. So we added uniqueness to him with a stat-boost mechanic and split him off as a separate character.

Dark Pit has exactly the same stats as Pit, so I first planned to handle him as a color variation. However, it would have made for a very strange setting for Black Pit to be using the Three Sacred Treasures, so we gave him a staff. One of the designers had also made the Electroshock Arm, so this was also another reason to make him a separate playable character.

In the end, what was needed for each of these changes was to reduce the work required to balance the game. Hence all these characters were adjusted relative to their clone.

For example, Marth and Lucina would only be tested against each other until they were roughly equal and in balance. For all other fighters, we take our results after fighting them against several dozen other characters. In fact, we set out on the premise that we would not include clone characters with this work.
I have two questions coming from this.

1. Do you think Sakurai will strictly avoid this based on what he said in the end or will he continue to make alt to character situations?

2. If so, do you think there's a good chance that there were a variety of extra weapons were developed by designers for Inklings in terms of possible custom moves for Octoling to utilize if the character were to be separated?

I have a good feeling the Smash developers will go overload with Splatoon weapons TBH, it only makes Octolings feel like a bigger possibility.
 
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GoodGrief741

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I think that depends on whether custom moves are coming back. If they aren’t and the dev team have ideas that they can’t implement into the Inklings, then maybe they’ll upgrade the Octolings to playable.

That said, I think Sakurai and the Smash devs change the rules and criteria for each game. Given how Lucina-as-a-clone was received, they might decide to pull back on that way of making last minute characters.

(It’s a big surprise that Dark Pit was the last to be added, he’s the most different out of all the clones.)
 

SEGAGameBoy

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I haven't played Splatoon yet. I'm planning on getting Splatoon for my Wii U. I support!
 

fogbadge

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having considered i would like to see them in smash (preferably based on octo expansion) and if spaltoon evolves into the series i think it might then the octolings might even be inevitable for smash

put me down as a supporter please
 

WeirdChillFever

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So with Echo characters being classified now and the standard alts for Inklings being the 8 colors, do you think Octolings are becoming more likely now?
Thinking up eight new colors for Octolings that are unique from Inkling's is hard, however there are quite a few boons I noticed in favor of Octolings:

-The existence of Echo Fighters
-Inkling is based on the end of Splatoon 1's life cycle, the peak of the Octoling outcry.
-Ink doesn't play an as big of a role in Inklings's movesst as often thought. Maybe Octolings can get away with using only one color?
 

ZealousGamer

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Looking at all the variety of weapons they could work as fully unique characters but, I'd guess they would be "echo" fighters which I'd be fine with.
 

Jave

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I say Octoling is a very easy pick for an Echo Fighter. Add me to the Support List.

Here's to Character 64ε.
 
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BluePikmin11

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As of right now, I do believe Octolings have a 50/50 shot of getting in. Their fan-popularity within Splatoon 1 could get them in as echo fighters. But, I would not be surprised if they ended up being unlockable alternate costumes and that echo characters are purely based on the ballot popularity get in instead. We will have to see what happens.
 

DelphoxFan97

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I started off as a Delphox supporter a few years ago, back when Smash 3DS/Wii U DLC was still coming, but Delphox was much more farfetched than I thought, and Delphox lost relevance when Sun and Moon hit the scene.

So now, I really think we should try to get Octoling in the roster with popular demand. Especially with the Octo Expansion, Octolings are now VERY relevant, and they'd make a great second Splatoon character in the roster. They should definitely be based on Agent 8 if we get them, having boy and girl versions. If not, they might end up being the bad Octolings that are always relentlessly trying to attack you.
 

Starbound

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Your OP misses a very easy weapon replacement for Splattershot: Octoshot!

If you're looking at keeping them as Echoes, most of the kit has to stay the same (which is great for Octoling since they're basically Inklings already). Honestly, I feel like it'd be very Sakurai to swap out the weapons for the alt skins (Octoshot, Krak-On Roller, Inkbrush Nouveau, Custom Blaster and Slosher Deco) and spend focus on it, given that he focused on Lucina's brand which isn't even really visible.

Burst Bomb D-Special would be cool, trading the delayed explosion of Splat Bombs for weaker damage. It would probably use less ink too, which could change how the character ends up being played (Octoling has the ink to throw more projectiles, giving it a better way to prevent approach). Make the Octolings heavier and slower by a little bit ala SSB4 Dr. Mario to further differentiate if needed, and you've got a rather interesting echo.

Two hurdles though I'm just realizing:
1. What ink colors would Octolings use as you'd need 8 different colors for them that are also different enough from the Inklings?
2. One of the Inkling costumes is wearing Octoling boots. Does this matter?
 

DelphoxFan97

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For colors, they always find a way. They can choose between red, pink (different shade than Inkling girl), purple, white, sea green, blue (brighter shade than Inkling boy), cream, and black.
 

Nerd Saga Nate

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Octolings have the relevancy and the popularity. It's a pretty safe guess to say they'll make the cut.
 

NintenZ

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Well thanks to Echo characters I now see Octolings making the cut.
 

fogbadge

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id imagine if they did get in theyd have their own shooter and brush weapons

perhaps they could have a different sub weapon as a special and a different special weapon as a final smash
 

DelphoxFan97

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The playable Octolings in Smash Ultimate should definitely be based on Agent 8, AKA the good Octolings, and NOT the bad Octolings.

The bad Octolings are the ones with the big hair and the scary glasses. No one wants to play as them.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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For colors, they always find a way. They can choose between red, pink (different shade than Inkling girl), purple, white, sea green, blue (brighter shade than Inkling boy), cream, and black.
The problem with some of those choices for colors is they look like bodily fluids

Also people that are color blind might have a hard time seeing some
 

DelphoxFan97

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The problem with some of those choices for colors is they look like bodily fluids

Also people that are color blind might have a hard time seeing some

Yeah, we don't need any dirty jokes, so I'll just leave it to the professionals to decide which colors work the best.
 

Makai Wars

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Octoling support squaaaaad

I think Octolings should function as the "Splatoon 2" representative. Rather than just being a simple Echo Fighter, I would prefer if Octolings were the Lucas to the Inkling's Ness, AKA a Semi-Clone. Octolings would be BASED off the Inklings and share the ink mechanic, but veer off in their own direction by using the weapons that have debuted in Splatoon 2.

  • Octobrush replaces the Inkbrush for their forward Smash, being slower, bigger, more ink costly, but a much bigger hitbox, damage and knockback
  • Dualies over the Splattershot, inputting left or right while firing allows you to do a dodge roll
  • Autobomb over the Splat Bomb. It would follow the nearest opponent around before detonating, giving the Octoling plenty of ways to pressure at the expense of being more ink costly than the Splat Bomb
  • Carbon Roller instead of the Splat Roller. Instead of burying the opponent, the Carbon simply knocks the enemy away, alternately it could have the added function of flicking when used in the air, giving the Octoling a powerful KO move with plenty of range.
  • Another idea is forgoing the Roller entirely and pulling out the Brella instead for their Side B. It would fire a shot, deflect attacks while it's out and then be launched forward with an active hitbox, just like in the game. It could function as a reflector, or even just give the Octoling armor. A utility move rather than a full on attack. Maybe you could even mash Side B to get that satisfying shotgun effect too. There are so many ways to utilize the Brella.
  • various normals could incoperate weapons not used in the Inkling's moveset, with weapons such as the Splatling for a Smash Attack, a Charger, Burst Bombs, ect.
I like the idea of the Octoling being the more advanced version of the Inkling, with moves more powerful but also more ink hungry, forcing you to think carefully about tank management but also letting you get that BIG damage in when you need it. I think we're selling ourselves short by just saying the Octoling should be an Echo, Inkling is only a taste of the flavor that Splatoon can bring to Smash, I say the Octoling should be a full on unique fighter and don't mind waiting until DLC for that to happen.
Lest we forget Splatoon 2 is the first game in Japan to reach over 2 Million sales in a decade. Splatoon has also reached near religion status in Japan even though it debuted on the Wii U, it's a phenomenon, I'd say a unique Octoling rep is not too tall of an order.


Alts would be....
Official Art Octoling Girl (Bandana, Octoking Jersey), Official art Octoling Boy, Agent 8 F, Agent 8 M, Octo girl with the ponytail hairstyle, Afro Octoboy, Splatoon 1's evil Octoling and an Octoboy dressed in Splatoon 2's Neo Octoling armor with the hypnoshades.
And maybe a faux Marina pallet because I'm biased.
 
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