Epita Smash Arena 2 - Paris - 23 & 24 February 2008 - Up to 256 Players !

[Marc]

Besides the occasional complaint the Frenchies have always accepted the rules of the countries they visited, at least to my knowledge. And the fact that JD and Makenshi have done well in foreign countries proves that at least the French top players aren't hurt by their own ruleset.

I hereby also request Luma is silenced, at least until he can make posts consisting of more than one line.

 

[Stormblast]

I´d really like to come to this if Money/School/Parents/Work... ect.ect. allow it. Also, this ruleset is fine by me. I dont care at all if more stages are allowed though.

 

[Ryuker]

K fine but then then jd shouldn't be giving a reason like it's all about skill cause it's not if you ban stages that take more skill. If you announce more stages would be announced you have like half a year to prepare for them so that reason doesn't seem valid to me aswell.

Also at rox 4 they has their rules based on what they found ban worthy and the rest didn't fit the cut so they allowed it. They don't have to give a reason for the banning of those stages cause they DIDN't ban the onces that aren't retardetly broken. Have you guys ever considered why the stages were allowed on that tourney. Do you have a good reason for banning them? Did you debate them? I personal never heard the reason of the japanese why they only found dreamland and fd fitted for tournament play but we never debated with them aswell about it.

Or we can just make it scrubby rules and play fd only cause that obviously show the most skill. However we are already allowing changing stages like pokemon so what's the reason for banning rainbow ride then? We might aswell just play marth and make the rules f-smash only and walk forward. It's easy you only have to time the smash and don't have to improvise that much. Like is the case with battlefield you don't have to get used to something other then usual. But we don't do that so I gues we like some diversity and do consider adaption and improvisation a skill.

Can't wait till poilon get's in this thread and starts giving us his reasons ^^.

 

[Stormblast]

IMO Princess Peach Castle, Onett and Green Greens should be completely banned. Fox ***** way way way too much on these stages and you all know why.

 

[Nedech]

Fox also gets ***** by various characters on Green Greens.

Banning Green Greens would suck majorly for me. It is one of the few stages that i can beat Peach as Donkey Kong on. : (

 

[Stormblast]

Fox also gets ***** by various characters on Green Greens.

Banning Green Greens would suck majorly for me. It is one of the few stages that i can beat Peach as Donkey Kong on. : (

Could you tell me which those characters who **** fox on green greens are?

 

[Nedech]

**** might have been a bad word for it, but Donkey Kong can do well vs Fox on it.

 

[Smasher89]

IMO Princess Peach Castle, Onett and Green Greens should be completely banned. Fox ***** way way way too much on these stages and you all know why.

Sorry for the offtopic
Well I don't, or ofcourse i know (waveshine, shine infinite, and he kills best upward, even when pikachu kills at lower %).
but seriously I know of atleast one char(actually two) that can take care of fox on Onett and Peach castle, only problem may be lasercamp but it should be possible to counter...

I "vote" for ARmada wins this tourney hehe....

 

[Askeflink]

I use Green Greens with Doc, works pretty fine.

 

[Vegard]

I use Green Greens with Doc, works pretty fine.

Whatever you're trying to say... Green Greens is not a great stage for Doc, even though you counterpick it all the time.

-__-

 

[Tonb3rry]

**** might have been a bad word for it, but Donkey Kong can do well vs Fox on it.

Yeah actually, but still the match may go in both ways
Fox can kill really early on that stage too...

 

[Stormblast]

Yeah actually, but still the match may go in both ways
Fox can kill really early on that stage too...

Also, fox can wall waveshine him easlily and roughly half the cast too.....
This also applies to peach castle and onett.
Im not seeing a good fox lose to a DK on green greens, castle or onett. Or any other character he can waveshine for that matter.

 

[Joanna Dark]

please stop the off-topic... don't bother to know if fox or DK ***** on green greens, causethis stage will never be on at this tournament...
Poilon came back from holiday and he'll post soon (I told him to), but he's just like me : these stages aren't tournament fitted in our opinion.

 

[Poilon]

So. In my tournament, there will be only 5 stages (the "neutral stages"), and one more to counterpick : battle field, and that beacause a lot of people ask me for this. Now, I don't want to add some stages like Mutecity or Greens greens. These stages are not balanced like FD or Pokemon stadium. You will say that FD is imbalanced, and I just think that it's one of the most balanced stage.
Just see the japan tournament called Jack's Garden, where we just saw 2 sages, and that's all, you have to say anything, sorry.

It's my tournament, my rules, and I think there are the best rules.

Link is forbidden in low tier tournament, because we have some really good link players in france ( Niam, Makenshi ...), and luigi is better in the tier list so he is just forbidden too.

All French players agrees with me, so I'll not chage anything.

And you have nothing to say, it's my tournament, so it's my rules.

 

[Nedech]

And here I thought Europe had their very own tierlist.

 

[Luma]

So. In my tournament, there will be only 5 stages (the "neutral stages"), and one more to counterpick : battle field, and that beacause a lot of people ask me for this. Now, I don't want to add some stages like Mutecity or Greens greens. These stages are not balanced like FD or Pokemon stadium. You will say that FD is imbalanced, and I just think that it's one of the most balanced stage.
Just see the japan tournament called Jack's Garden, where we just saw 2 sages, and that's all, you have to say anything, sorry.

It's my tournament, my rules, and I think there are the best rules.

Link is forbidden in low tier tournament, because we have some really good link players in france ( Niam, Makenshi ...), and luigi is better in the tier list so he is just forbidden too.

All French players agrees with me, so I'll not chage anything.

And you have nothing to say, it's my tournament, so it's my rules.

Why dont you even try to argue?
How can FD be fair against a Falco as Bowser?
Why do you make an own tierlist?

Banning Chars because you got someone who could play with it seems pretty ridiculous, then you really have to think about banning Sheik in Singles.
I still don't get it why you dont even try to argue? By this the only thing you do is spit in the face of people who are really interested in this tournament and/or his rules. Why? Well since ESA1 was a success someone could be useing those rules in his tournament, but how could he if he doesn't even know why you do all this stuff.

Well here is another point which is completely stupid in my opinion, ok all the French players do agree with those rules, but shouldn't this be the biggest french tournament with more non-French smashers? I mean if you really wanna make this BIG, you will have more foreigners then French smashers.

Ok I looked at JGT, and now? How about MLG, which is MUCH bigger than any Japanese tournament ever will be.

Why dont you even try to argue?
How can FD be fair against a Falco as Bowser?
Why do you make an own tierlist?

 

[Helios]

That's not the response I was waiting for. You say "this is my tourney, I decide the rules", and then you allow battlefield because we tell you to allow it?

Oh well, quite a shame. Could've been fun going to France again. Guess I'll see some of you in Brawl.

 

[Poilon]

the low-tier tournament is a "for fun" tournament, so i just want to see Niam with another character for example, i don't change the tier list.

For other stages, "this game is not balanced", but for me, stages like mute city are really unbalanced. A peach in mute city, it's not fair, and i'm sorry, but a falco, a fox or a marth or a sheik or a falcon or a link or a jiggs or a peach or a doc in FD, it's fair !

So just stop criticize my rules, it's not really different like yours, but i hate these stages, so I d'ont want to see them at my tournament, it's normal I think ?

 

[Luma]

just tell me WHY!
and u change it, luigi, nugh said
why dont u just ask niam if he takes another char, for example (already said that) svampen does not play yoshi in low tier

 

[yomedrath]

well, this answer was surprisingly wierd...
not the thing we all hoped for O.o

you will definitely scare off people with this attitude, and that´s sad...

 

[$hYne]

It´s sad that you just say "my tournament, my rules" .
JD at least tried to argue but you just say no ?

So just stop criticize my rules, it's not really different like yours, but i hate these stages, so I d'ont want to see them at my tournament, it's normal I think ?

What if i hate Marth for example ? Do I ban him in my Tournament ?
Of course not .

I mean if it´s your oppinion, ok. But you should argue about it and not just say no.
This is neither good for the reputation of your tournament nor for the reputation of your country.

 

[Tonb3rry]

I REALLY hope this tourney will be in the weekend, cuz I don't think I'll have vacation in february...
I guess that'll be the best solution for everyone.

 

[$hYne]

Yeah weekend would be best .
We only got several days vacation in february (4.2. - 9.2.)

 

[Jeffz0r]

but i hate these stages, so I d'ont want to see them at my tournament, it's normal I think ?

You really think so? o_0

 

[ivootjes(nr18)]

Ok, i can live with the stages, but i don't like them.

Now to the low tier part (i really give **** about low tier but that's another story) I think it's quitte ******** to say this is a low tier tournament if you can't use all the low tiers. Now it's more like a part-of-low-tier tournament. Luigi and Link suck and nobody uses them in the normal tournament anyway.

Besides that you make it sound like niam is some sort of unbeatable link god, which he isn't. I'm pretty sure that there will be some people who are able to beat his link without using link or luigi. And if not, let him win low tier, he deserves some respect to play such a crappy charachter.

Winning low tier is just like winning the paralympics anyway XD No need to restrict the people with one leg because there are people without legs too

 

[Jeffz0r]

Winning low tier is just like winning the paralympics anyway XD No need to restrict the people with one leg because there are people without legs too

Best reply ever _O_

 

[Nihonjin]

Link is forbidden in low tier tournament, because we have some really good link players in france ( Niam, Makenshi ...), and luigi is better in the tier list so he is just forbidden too.

Ehm...my Mewtwo 3 stocked makenshi's Link....

 

[Tonb3rry]

Ehm...my Mewtwo 3 stocked makenshi's Link....

Maybe we should ban Mewtwo too :3

 

[Helios]

'Man, I really dislike that annoying stage called "Final Destination", it's just flat and boring, and Marth always chaingrabs me to death there. I think I'm going to ban it next tourney '

Someone needs to realize that banning stages isn't based on what you like and don't like, but rather whether something is broken or not. If you really do not want to play on mute city, then go ahead and ban it when you play a peach or a jiggz. Either that, step your game up and learn to play on the stage. It's not that hard.

 

[Marc]

What Poilon said sounded pretty harsh, although that probably wasn't his intention. It's nice to see a tournament host with a backbone though.

What I don't get is that people EXPECT a host to go into a debate about rulesets nowadays, and to just do whatever the people attending the tournament supposedly want. While you do have to think about your audience, there's no way to please everyone, especially when there is no perfect ruleset. This tournament is aimed at the French players in the first place, and foreigners in the second place. "Screwing over" your own players to please a few Swedes that probably won't even show up doesn't seem right to me. Also note that the liberal ruleset RoX4 used is not the standard, it's just an option. It's also not what everyone wants. Besides people not fully agreeing with this ruleset, I don't see a real PROBLEM with it. And saying stuff like "just learn to play on more stages" can be answered with "learn to play with less options", so that isn't helpful at all, just annoying. The Frenchies clearly favour a ruleset where the stages have less influence on the matches' outcome, is that really so bad?

The only thing I still find pretty shady is the banning of Luigi and Link from low tier, but I can live with it.

 

[bornfidelity.com]

although i dont disagree with the stageset as it is (i'm not complaining, not at all ) - no-one can get around to arguing by saying 'i dont like it'. not even french people

just think of *why* you don't like the stage and tell us

- mute city is peach-**** stage and doesn't do anything good for the rest of the tournament/playing.
- dk jungle 64 has really lame edges and the barrel. whether you think or not that's really a bad thing is up to you
- battlefield has weird/lame edges as well
- rainbow ride has got disappearing platforms
- yoshis story has shy guys and the, ofc, broken cloud
- fd has got no platforms so people can get chainthrown and thats broken
- pokemon stadium has these substages with walls that fox can do a lame shine infinite on
- dreamland 64 has farawy blastlines so peach and samus (and ganondorf etc) survive forever, thats lame

hmmmm what stage have we got left?

FOUNTAIN OF DREAMS

............you see.

 

[Helios]

Obviously a lot of people aren't happy with the ruleset as of now, and some are demanding a proper explanation. There is nothing wrong with this, and it's a fairly reasonable request, really.

So far, from what I can tell, these are the arguments given:

Against more stages: We don't like them, they take no skill - let's ban them
For more stages: They create variety, they require more skill, they're not broken - so why ban them?

I think the case is as clear as can be, but since some of you guys don't, why don't you give these stages a try?
We all play the neutrals, all the time, and they're not enough. Now you try and play the odd stages for a week or so. Have a smashfest using all the crazy stages on random, and then come back and make that judgement.
Until then you just sound like right wing conservatists scared of what's new and not familiar

 

[jOs'z]

Obviously a lot of people aren't happy with the ruleset as of now, and some are demanding a proper explanation. There is nothing wrong with this, and it's a fairly reasonable request, really.

It seems that a lot of people are complaining here on SWF about this ruleset, but it's almost nothing compared to the whole number of players who'll be at ESA 2, try to keep that in mind.
Of course, foreigners may be considered as "guests", but it's not like we had to upset all our playing habits just because THEY are coming.
All our tournaments worked well this way.

 

[Luma]

just tell me how bowser vs falco on fd is not broken

if u give me a good answer on that i am quiet

 

[bornfidelity.com]

just tell me how bowser vs falco on fd is not broken

if u give me a good answer on that i am quiet

bowser vs falco on any stage is broken. if you don't play any characters beside bowser you just gonna have to accept that you're not winning tournaments

but considering the characters that *are* played in tournaments - peach vs falco on fd? not so broken. marth or fox vs falco on fd? not so broken at all. sheik vs falco?? maybe capt falcon has a disadvantage but thats it


(..i dont see why you would ever use bowser to argue about real tournament rules)

 

[Luma]

bowser is a real char so dont just come if most played chars
and no, bowser vs falco matchup is not broken on every stages, but it is just plain impossible on fd

 

[Joanna Dark]

that's not a valid argument though, falco ***** bowser, the end >_<.

 

[bornfidelity.com]

that's not a valid argument though,*everyone and their moms* **** bowser, the end >_<.

fix'd

^^

 

[Vegard]

just tell me how bowser vs falco on fd is not broken

if u give me a good answer on that i am quiet

That isn't related to the discussion about stage bans at all -___-

 

[bornfidelity.com]

well his point was probably 'we don't ban FD either which is broken sometimes, so why do we ban for instance mutue city and not FD'

to which the answer of course is, that every top character is in one way or another broken on FD (lasers, waveshine infinites, chainthrowing) so that it kindof evens out. mute city is in favour only to peach and jiggs and does give them a huge advantage, and it's the host's choice to say 'the peach player will have to be better so he can just win on a normal stage'