-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Enemies of the Crown: King Dedede Matchup Thread (SERIN IS IN CHARGE NOW NOT GATES)
- Thread starter Gates
- Start date
RATED
Smash Lord
I have one doubt , why this thread isn't sticky? it could be great. really this thread needs that.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
:forehead slap: Really? After I just put up the Vidoe Thread's Connection to this we switch to Toon Link. Alright. I'm going to go update it after coming here to update it so this post is updating while its updating.
RATED
Smash Lord
I think I can help here. I practice most of the time against a Toon link mainer ( TLMsheikant
but I am not so good at writing english so here I come:
1 use ur air game more than anything. jump even more than usual in this matchup u will get around the proyectiles easily. approach this way in this matchup
2. Use Dair or bair after aproaching with the (pointer 1). if u can get a grab is bettter but more predictable but use grab. a CG in this matchup is priceless.
3. Waddle dees I use it a lot in this matchup. TL hate those guys seriously he can't move freely with them on the field. don't use them while on the ground u will get zair to nair or a bomb. or worst inviibombed to bairs. use the waddles while on air( preferably ur first or 2nd jump.)
4. toon link is easily edgeguarded by DDD, u have to try all match to get them to the edge.
5. try to not get hit with zair at high percents they will upsmash or nair.
but I am not so good at writing english so here I come:
1 use ur air game more than anything. jump even more than usual in this matchup u will get around the proyectiles easily. approach this way in this matchup
2. Use Dair or bair after aproaching with the (pointer 1). if u can get a grab is bettter but more predictable but use grab. a CG in this matchup is priceless.
3. Waddle dees I use it a lot in this matchup. TL hate those guys seriously he can't move freely with them on the field. don't use them while on the ground u will get zair to nair or a bomb. or worst inviibombed to bairs. use the waddles while on air( preferably ur first or 2nd jump.)
4. toon link is easily edgeguarded by DDD, u have to try all match to get them to the edge.
5. try to not get hit with zair at high percents they will upsmash or nair.
lol sorry. This thread usually updates on Fridays at about noon so you know. There's only one more update to do though so whatever.
TLMarth
Smash Ace
TL stuff
We try to have a bomb out to ruin your CG. You could try to wait for it to be thrown before going in for the grab.
Apparently your F-tilt is longer than zair -_-
We try to have a bomb out to ruin your CG. You could try to wait for it to be thrown before going in for the grab.
Apparently your F-tilt is longer than zair -_-
RATED
Smash Lord
yes that's true is longer than TL 's zair.
and the bomb is the "key card" to TL to win this matchup. and yeah I wait for TL to throw the bomb to try the grab.
hizzlum
Smash Journeyman
TL can be SCG CG'd, dedede is not gimpable(realistically its really diffcult) while a FF bair off the edge can really make it hard for toon link to recover.
TL of course can out camp DDD with bomb rangs and bow, but DDD ftilt is great on approaches.
In KO power DDD's utilt willl kill at lower % than TL viable kill moves
DDD can also abuse TL's bombs with a dash pivot throw( which is similar to a glide toss) but that situational but also helpful for DDD getting that extra space to land a grab to a chain throw
TL can platform abuse with his aerials which helps rack up % when play DDD who can CG him
just my thoughts on playing norcal toon links at tourneys
TL of course can out camp DDD with bomb rangs and bow, but DDD ftilt is great on approaches.
In KO power DDD's utilt willl kill at lower % than TL viable kill moves
DDD can also abuse TL's bombs with a dash pivot throw( which is similar to a glide toss) but that situational but also helpful for DDD getting that extra space to land a grab to a chain throw
TL can platform abuse with his aerials which helps rack up % when play DDD who can CG him
just my thoughts on playing norcal toon links at tourneys
iRjOn
Smash Lord
Ok ready
This is a match where Toon Link will rely on bombs, rang, and zair to really rack up damage.
That doesn't mean we wont be in your face only to catch a shield bomb really cause then a grab cant be turned into a chain grab.
You all got any questions for me?
This is a match where Toon Link will rely on bombs, rang, and zair to really rack up damage.
That doesn't mean we wont be in your face only to catch a shield bomb really cause then a grab cant be turned into a chain grab.
You all got any questions for me?
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
I hate this matchup. Its really difficult and staying away from RATED's grabs is hard XD. I usually try to always have a bomb in hand and only hit his shield with zair and retreat. With JC bomb throws. SHDA is more useful in this matchup than in others mainly because of the waddle dees and because DDD is a big target. To get the kill I usually just mindgame him with a bomb to make him fall into usmash 
. I hate his inhales I usually run from inhales with rolls but TL's roll sucks so...yeah im pretty much screwed every time he inhales unless I predict it run and JC throw to make him lag when he eats the bomb. When that happens I always punish him with nair or if on high percents I fsmash.
If DDD gets a grab on TL and ur good at ledge traps that means -1 stock for TL. Sadly, RATED is VERY freaking good at ledge traps and getting the grabs >_>. I think it's anywhere between even or 60:40 DDD.
. I hate his inhales I usually run from inhales with rolls but TL's roll sucks so...yeah im pretty much screwed every time he inhales unless I predict it run and JC throw to make him lag when he eats the bomb. When that happens I always punish him with nair or if on high percents I fsmash.If DDD gets a grab on TL and ur good at ledge traps that means -1 stock for TL.
Sadly, RATED is VERY freaking good at ledge traps and getting the grabs >_>. I think it's anywhere between even or 60:40 DDD.
Santi
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,931
All we have to do is play super gay and throw literally... 600 bombs =)
DDD best option is just to approach like a Snake would.
Dashes into shield and walking and perfect shielding is essential.
That way you can apply pressure and maybe get close in to get a grab or something else.
If TL plays oober gay and the DDD loses patience and pressure.. TL will win. We will outcamp.
uhhhh
Waddle thingies can own us if we try to airdoge zair.
Throw it right before we airdodge and you will hit us when we try to zair.
ummmm
???
what else...... dont die before 150% and when you get that high... please just stay in your shield :D
DDD best option is just to approach like a Snake would.
Dashes into shield and walking and perfect shielding is essential.
That way you can apply pressure and maybe get close in to get a grab or something else.
If TL plays oober gay and the DDD loses patience and pressure.. TL will win. We will outcamp.
uhhhh
Waddle thingies can own us if we try to airdoge zair.
Throw it right before we airdodge and you will hit us when we try to zair.
ummmm
???
what else...... dont die before 150% and when you get that high... please just stay in your shield :D
CO18
Smash Hero
I say its 55:45 adv over TL.
Also Ive come the conclusion Snake has the advantage over Dedede 6:4 on all stages with platforms because he can platform camp and its a ***** to get through. Only a few snakes do it though.
Dedede has 6:4 adv on all flat stages though.
hizzlum
Smash Journeyman
The fact that DDD wont de till over 150% when TL dies at 100% and that DDD has easy % rack up on TL does mean that camping is a viable option, however bombs are not as good as DDD's SCG CG % rack up. DDD ftilt will halt some of TL's approaches, yet TL can get hits in with spaced aerials,
Edge guarding game is in favor of DDD, as a FF bair will do it in most cases while DDD can survive a reasonable aount of edge game pressure.
DDD can typicaal;y pop a dash Sheild grab quick enough to get a grab in on a campy TL, which means inmost cases over 15% if ur just gonna bthrow, or about 30% of dhrow cg.
iono, i dont linke to give number for match-ups but 55-45 DDD seems to come into mind, if you camp the entire match, ur bound to get punished by a massive grab range and the range of DDD's ftilt
Santi
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,931
I'm just saying that the damage TL will dish out will come pretty fast too... bombs+bair/nair/zair can add up faster than you think.
Also if the TL plays super campy (like running around for literally 8 minutes) it can be hard for DDD to rack up that "easy" damage.
It can be easy for us to use our three projectiles to hit the biggest character in the game.
It's a close matchup, I agree.
I guess it depends on how well you play against the other character and the way you play the match.
Also if the TL plays super campy (like running around for literally 8 minutes) it can be hard for DDD to rack up that "easy" damage.
It can be easy for us to use our three projectiles to hit the biggest character in the game.
It's a close matchup, I agree.
I guess it depends on how well you play against the other character and the way you play the match.
Badjuju
Smash Apprentice
Toon link's bair is kind of rediculous.
PinkPwnageFrenzy
Smash Journeyman
Wow, I haven't contributed in awhile, allow me to rectify that.
Firstly, as we know, it's Toon Link. If you're somewhat familiar with the game you know he has a nice little arsenal he can use against you to rack up damage. How well you can time your powershields will be put to the test here.
Anyway, first off, Ftilt cancels boomerangs and arrows. As do Waddles and Utilts, but they take a little bit longer to come out (Waddles do, at least). So that narrows down the TL's options that much more. So all that's really left is the bombs. Learn to catch them and powershield. Be wary though, they'll sometimes bounce off your shield, so keep that in mind.
So you've "broken" their projectile game, don't be surprised if they still sneak in a few, just keep doing what you're doing. They might try to do some cross-ups*, so make sure you've practiced your pivot grabs. Zair can be tricky if they do it right, learn the range of that if you don't already have it.
Gimping, I'd say Dedede definitely has the advantage here. Again, big, but he also has a lot of recovery himself, he can follow TL out there and finish him off if need be, then float back safely to the stage like nothing happened. Something I'd like to try, as it just popped into my head, would be to try pulling the Jet Hammer on a recovering Toon Link, assuming you're playing one that ends up going a little above the stage before they cling to the edge. Again, just a thought, no idea if it's actually reliable.
TL is light and has a little trouble killing Dedede due to his bulk, but don't take him for granted, he's fairly agile. I'd say the matchup is 60:40ish in Dedede's favor, maybe the previously suggest 55-45, but regardless, Dedede does have the advantage here.
*cross-ups are basically using attacks (typically aerials) that go past the opponent, as to get behind them, for example jumping past the opponent and using a Bair.
Firstly, as we know, it's Toon Link. If you're somewhat familiar with the game you know he has a nice little arsenal he can use against you to rack up damage. How well you can time your powershields will be put to the test here.
Anyway, first off, Ftilt cancels boomerangs and arrows. As do Waddles and Utilts, but they take a little bit longer to come out (Waddles do, at least). So that narrows down the TL's options that much more. So all that's really left is the bombs. Learn to catch them and powershield. Be wary though, they'll sometimes bounce off your shield, so keep that in mind.
So you've "broken" their projectile game, don't be surprised if they still sneak in a few, just keep doing what you're doing. They might try to do some cross-ups*, so make sure you've practiced your pivot grabs. Zair can be tricky if they do it right, learn the range of that if you don't already have it.
Gimping, I'd say Dedede definitely has the advantage here. Again, big, but he also has a lot of recovery himself, he can follow TL out there and finish him off if need be, then float back safely to the stage like nothing happened. Something I'd like to try, as it just popped into my head, would be to try pulling the Jet Hammer on a recovering Toon Link, assuming you're playing one that ends up going a little above the stage before they cling to the edge. Again, just a thought, no idea if it's actually reliable.
TL is light and has a little trouble killing Dedede due to his bulk, but don't take him for granted, he's fairly agile. I'd say the matchup is 60:40ish in Dedede's favor, maybe the previously suggest 55-45, but regardless, Dedede does have the advantage here.
*cross-ups are basically using attacks (typically aerials) that go past the opponent, as to get behind them, for example jumping past the opponent and using a Bair.
DonkeyKongUh
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2008
- Messages
- 63
Waddle dees are good meatsheilds and can block some of tinks projectiles. Bombs can screw with cg. The tink will prbly camp near the edge so even if you do get a grab in you won't get many grabs. Gimping him is a pain as he will spam projectiles at you off stage but it's definitely possible. TL can's kill for ****. Just sheild his smashes and look out for fair. Tether grab makes him less likely to grab you. You can get comboed pretty bad and are outcamped so i'd say tink has a slight advanatge. 45-55?
hizzlum
Smash Journeyman
Waddle dees dont block TL's projectiles, too much lag for DDD to throw one when TL can simply pull out another projectile and punish DDD.
When TL has a bomb, you can either end a CG with an f/bthrow which does 2x a much damage as an unstale dthrow(8% while bthrow has 16%)
TL has too watch out when camping at the edge, a simple quick bair at over 50% at the edge buts TL in a fairly bad position when DDD multiple jumps cancel some the productivity of TL's edge guard.
DDD can also use TL's bombs for jump canceled pivot throws, which allows him to get that little extra range for a CG.
DDD kills w/ utilt at 110% almsot guaranteed with a TL who has good DI when DDD wont die till over 150%(thts being dumb and not fast falling after attack momentum reduction of a dair)
TL can "combo"/camp at the same time, if he tries to go for combos, he is asking to be ftilted or SCG CG'd or at high % a utilt or a bair that leads to an edgegaurd. Like Santi said, camping is truly TL only viable strategy in this match-up and with that being said it seems to suggest 55-45: DDD
iRjOn
Smash Lord
Even though it doen't matter much...
Toon Link can kill D3 with uair at about 110ish% or maybe alittle higher.
But D3 should becareful when coming down with his up-b
dont D3's do that too much anyway.
Just in general Uair is really easy to hit D3 with cause of his size.
Thats all I got atm.
Toon Link can kill D3 with uair at about 110ish% or maybe alittle higher.
But D3 should becareful when coming down with his up-b
dont D3's do that too much anyway.
Just in general Uair is really easy to hit D3 with cause of his size.
Thats all I got atm.
iRjOn
Smash Lord
lmao are you serious?
lol
If you acctually prove this I will start maining wario
XD
Yeah, you should've just PM'd me about this.
Anyway, what to TL mains usually like to CP in this match? The one I play is a big fan of Battlefield.
iRjOn
Smash Lord
BF, FD, Smashville.
Imo The best are Smashville and FD.
Because on BF D3 can use the platforms to aviod our projectiles.
Lylat seems good.
I wouldn't go to Delfino...
Yoshi's Island Brawl is ight.
Thats all I can really think of...
Imo The best are Smashville and FD.
Because on BF D3 can use the platforms to aviod our projectiles.
Lylat seems good.
I wouldn't go to Delfino...
Yoshi's Island Brawl is ight.
Thats all I can really think of...
hizzlum
Smash Journeyman
did u know DDD has a walking CG on WArio? meaning his CG's are extra long, and besides wario's metagame is based on pressure play, not camping. DDD has more range that wario so if wario tries to camp, DDD will counter this by primarily respoding with ftilts and waddle dees.
And when wario pressures, he better have perfect spacing, or elsethat dair can be sheilded ofr an easy walking CG
Also about DDD counterpicking TL, the idea that should cross a DDD players mind is low ceiling, than your preference to take out campers(wether it be small stages so u can punish TL easier or go on FD so ur CG is longer).
Also remeber that frigate orpheon can can TL by surprise, he has to recover with up -b on the right side of the stage, which means as DDD you can land a bair by predicting him, also its a relativly small stage so TL has to watch out when camping if you decided to dash shield cancel to grab or tilts
RATED
Smash Lord
I think that some stages against toon link , I use frigate orpheon , final destination, lylat cruise, pkmn stadium ?(It just came to my mind now), or halberd?
Yeah, this is basically what I would've said and why I wanted DMG to pm me about it.
Anyway, I think we can close discussion of Toon Link now. When I do write up the matchup, I'll be sure to incorporate the phrase "Toon Nasty" somehow.
KING DEDEDE MIRROR MATCH DISCUSSION GO!
(And please, don't just say "don't get grabbed lolol")
Tonsana
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2008
- Messages
- 175
Mirror matches intressting....I think spacing is the key to victory here.
SH bairs and fairs with good spacing will keep him of from CG you
Also dont spotdodge to much so it becomes predictable.
Try do get close when he is landing and grab him in the landing lag. Also use more waddle dees than him, but dont spam.
Pick the stage that you are godly at. Dosent depends on what stage it is cus its a ditto.
SH bairs and fairs with good spacing will keep him of from CG you
Also dont spotdodge to much so it becomes predictable.
Try do get close when he is landing and grab him in the landing lag. Also use more waddle dees than him, but dont spam.
Pick the stage that you are godly at. Dosent depends on what stage it is cus its a ditto.
Fogo
Smash Shinigami
Omg gayest matchup ever lol
CO18
Smash Hero
65:35 Dedede.
T3h Albino
Smash Master
chain grabzorz
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
this seems quite accurate to me
RATED
Smash Lord
u made my day.
, basically like almost all ditto matchups spacing is the key.Foursaken
Smash Apprentice
There comes a time within everyones smash career where they must face their greatest fear, themselves. As cliché as it sounds, that's exactly what this match up consists of. Stay in the air at all times, as one grab in the hands of an experienced DeDeDe main means the loss of a stock, so three grabs means game. Full hop down airs applies great shield pressure due to how large the king is, but your going to want to utilize every one of your jumps in an attempt to evade his mittens. Learn the timing of D3's infinite on himself, just in case you find yourself being death grabbed by your opponent so you can fight fire with fire. As said in all of my previous summaries, spacing is key in this match up, edge guard with back airs, but be cautious of regicides, and don't get grabbed. In all honesty, D3 dittos do not have a whole lot of depth to them, if any. They don't determine who is the better player, just who knows this particular match up more. Really, you should just avoid this fight if you can, it's extremely boring.u made my day.
Random Info:
Jet hammer wrecks high up B recoveries.
You can grab high up B recoveries.
If you predict or force a high up B recovery, it's a free forward smash.
Ugh, just watch this set. It's a video of CO18 and Seibrik playing, this basically sums up every thing in a nutshell.
Edit: I would also like to do the following characters in the next proceeding weeks. In no particular order...
Wario
Wolf
Yoshi
Lucas
Ness
PinkPwnageFrenzy
Smash Journeyman
I'd say it's a random chance of winning or losing. You may have the better Dedede, but the other guy can pull a random gordo and poof, there goes your stock. If you're really unlucky it'll happen three times in one match (has happened to me before, on more than one occasion). You can also get Jet hammered or Fsmashed if you're not careful, each will most likely take off a stock if they hit.
Taiki
Smash Apprentice
This matchup in a nutshell:
Grab -> chaingrab to end of stage -> finish chaingrab with d-tilt, edgeguard, force them to up-b, kill them with any kind of flashy kill move I.E. mecha hammer or F-smash. Repeat
75:25 Dedede sounds about right.
Also never be stupid enough to assault a dedede camping a ledge, they're just trying to get a full stage worth of a chaingrab
Grab -> chaingrab to end of stage -> finish chaingrab with d-tilt, edgeguard, force them to up-b, kill them with any kind of flashy kill move I.E. mecha hammer or F-smash. Repeat
75:25 Dedede sounds about right.
Also never be stupid enough to assault a dedede camping a ledge, they're just trying to get a full stage worth of a chaingrab