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Elma for Smash Ultimate: Won the battle... but ultimately lost the war.

KirbyWorshipper2465

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no Octo Expansion music (or spirits aside from the two aforementioned ones) specifically

am concerned that they dont usually rep dlc content from other games tho. there's no ashen wolves content for 3h, no dlc representation in the SwSh spirit event, no spirits of Lola Pop/Misango/Springtron/Dr. Coyle for Min Min's pack (they appear on the tv screens on the stage though)
Yeah, doesn't really mean much. Conversely, the first Hyrule Warriors was skipped over entirely for the base game, while DLC went after a spirit event for Age of Calamity.

Meanwhile, there's absolutely zero content from Luigi's Mansion 3 except the G-00 as a throw. That seems much weirder to me.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Yeah, doesn't really mean much. Conversely, the first Hyrule Warriors was skipped over entirely for the base game, while DLC went after a spirit event for Age of Calamity.

Meanwhile, there's absolutely zero content from Luigi's Mansion 3 except the G-00 as a throw. That seems much weirder to me.
Though I think Xenoblade X not having music in the game is even more suspicious since X has like 5 Spirits in the gane and no single music track. At first I wouldn't have think into that much, but after seeing Byleth, Min Min, and Sephiroth bring content with them that was missing from the base game like Three Houses content, Arms music, and FF Spirits and tracks outside of Cloud and two tracks it makes me more invested in the thought that they didn't put Xenoblade X music in the game because they're saving it for Elma's Challenger Pack which they might have been holding onto since base game if you looked at my posts from the last page.

They might be saving Luigi's Mansion 3 Spirits for a Luigi's Mansion 3 Spirit Event, but it seems like in that case that opportunity has long pass as they should have done around Luigi's Mansion 3's release back in the Fall of 2019. Maybe they're saving it for Waluigi if they promote him.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Though I think Xenoblade X not having music in the game is even more suspicious since X has like 5 Spirits in the gane and no single music track. At first I wouldn't have think into that much, but after seeing Byleth, Min Min, and Sephiroth bring content with them that was missing from the base game like Three Houses content, Arms music, and FF Spirits and tracks outside of Cloud and two tracks it makes me more invested in the thought that they didn't put Xenoblade X music in the game because they're saving it for Elma's Challenger Pack which they might have been holding onto since base game if you looked at my posts from the last page.

They might be saving Luigi's Mansion 3 Spirits for a Luigi's Mansion 3 Spirit Event, but it seems like in that case that opportunity has long pass as they should have done around Luigi's Mansion 3's release back in the Fall of 2019. Maybe they're saving it for Waluigi if they promote him.
Elma could include a few more Spirits too. Male and Female Cross/Rook, Irina, Gwin, Doug, Nagi, Yelv, Alexa, H.B., L'cirufe, Celica (Xenoblade Chronicles X), Ma'non, some of the baddies whose names escape me right now...
 

Calamitas

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i do believe Calamitas Calamitas made those images, he'd have to make another for Byleth, Min Min and Sephiroth bringing missing content (with an added detail that FF7's base game content was technically brought over from 4)
Yeah, that was me who made that image series. Though I'll have to admit, as of right now, I'm not intent on updating or amending it. While Sephiroth isn't that bad of a sign, I'm still pretty skeptical on our colonel's chances these days.

But hey, if anyone here wants to do it and has a enough of an understand on an image editing softwarte of choice, I could easily share the template that I made and used for those Elma's Advice-style images.

Elma could include a few more Spirits too. Male and Female Cross/Rook, Irina, Gwin, Doug, Nagi, Yelv, Alexa, H.B., L'cirufe, Celica (Xenoblade Chronicles X), Ma'non, some of the baddies whose names escape me right now...
Luxaar, Goetia, Ryyz and Dagahn.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Though I think Xenoblade X not having music in the game is even more suspicious since X has like 5 Spirits in the gane and no single music track. At first I wouldn't have think into that much, but after seeing Byleth, Min Min, and Sephiroth bring content with them that was missing from the base game like Three Houses content, Arms music, and FF Spirits and tracks outside of Cloud and two tracks it makes me more invested in the thought that they didn't put Xenoblade X music in the game because they're saving it for Elma's Challenger Pack which they might have been holding onto since base game if you looked at my posts from the last page.

They might be saving Luigi's Mansion 3 Spirits for a Luigi's Mansion 3 Spirit Event, but it seems like in that case that opportunity has long pass as they should have done around Luigi's Mansion 3's release back in the Fall of 2019. Maybe they're saving it for Waluigi if they promote him.
Fair point.

Nah, Mario-wise I think the candidate would be more obvious.

1610319788078.jpeg

I mean, the fact that they chose now of all times (right as Mario 35th is about to end) to buy out Next Level Games is a bit curious.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Fair point.

Nah, Mario-wise I think the candidate would be more obvious.


I mean, the fact that they chose now of all times (right as Mario 35th is about to end) to buy out Next Level Games is a bit curious.
I don't know. I think they would likely wait to add King Boo in a Smash reboot when Luigi is placed under the Luigi's Mansion series and not the Mario series. Because if in Ultimate, King Boo would be placed as a Mario rep.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I don't know. I think they would likely wait to add King Boo in a Smash reboot when Luigi is placed under the Luigi's Mansion series and not the Mario series. Because if in Ultimate, King Boo would be placed as a Mario rep.
I severely doubt that would stop them, seeing as they could just as easily follow the grandfather clause of labelling him as a Mario character. Besides, the guy has shown up more often in Mario games than Luigi ones anyway.

But I'll stop this right here, since I can never convince anyone until causality does it for me...:glare:
 
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Rie Sonomura

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You know what I love about X also

in XC1(DE), XC2 and Torna, if a UM spots you while battling normal enemies the UM music IMMEDIATELY kicks in and it just startles you you’re like OH **** even if the UM isn’t that strong

in X though, you’d notice Black Tar or whatever other “regular” battle music is playing suddenly stops, there’s a pause while you wonder “why’d it stop” and a few seconds later Uncontrollable kicks in

and no exceptions you have one of these two reactions;
“Welp we’re boned”
Or
LET’S-A ****ING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!”

and you either run like hell, get your ass whooped, or try to fight it in which case you’d either still get your ass whooped or struggle through to a triumphant victory, bonus points if you get to the end of the song by then

it is the BEST FEELING EVER. NO OTHER GAME GIVES ME THAT EXPERIENCE EVERY SINGLE TIME.
 

Omar_25

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You know what I love about X also

in XC1(DE), XC2 and Torna, if a UM spots you while battling normal enemies the UM music IMMEDIATELY kicks in and it just startles you you’re like OH **** even if the UM isn’t that strong

in X though, you’d notice Black Tar or whatever other “regular” battle music is playing suddenly stops, there’s a pause while you wonder “why’d it stop” and a few seconds later Uncontrollable kicks in

and no exceptions you have one of these two reactions;
“Welp we’re boned”
Or
LET’S-A ****ING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!”

and you either run like hell, get your ass whooped, or try to fight it in which case you’d either still get your ass whooped or struggle through to a triumphant victory, bonus points if you get to the end of the song by then

it is the BEST FEELING EVER. NO OTHER GAME GIVES ME THAT EXPERIENCE EVERY SINGLE TIME.
There's battle music other than Wir Fliegen?
 

RetrogamerMax

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I'm so damn confident in Elma's chances right now more than any character. I've kind of had that feeling about her chances for a long time actually since Xenoblade X music has been absence from the game.
 

Jocario Zero

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Is Elma sus?

Interesting theory I found on the YT. Heavy spoilers obviously.
Still may be a while before Monolith dives into an X sequel, so we'll have to wait to see what their plans are regarding the game, but still interesting to speculate.
Nice theory but that would break my heart if this was true. .___.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Real talk tho

it’s been two and a half years since the “porting X would be difficult/expensive” statement. HOPEFULLY that will have changed by now?

they’d maybe need to update the designs like with XCDE but I can see at least an announcement of XCXDE. maybe put teases of new content too
 

RebelMaren

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Real talk tho

it’s been two and a half years since the “porting X would be difficult/expensive” statement. HOPEFULLY that will have changed by now?

they’d maybe need to update the designs like with XCDE but I can see at least an announcement of XCXDE. maybe put teases of new content too
Thing is that statement never meant it wasn't happening, it was just an obvious truth, porting a big game IS difficult and expensive, it's a simple misdirect, you see them in interviews all the time. They can't just say "We'd love to do it, in fact we are doing it, expect a surprise reveal in a couple years time".

If it happens, it's despite it being difficult and expensive, not because it isn't anymore, so I wouldn't sweat that quote at all.
 

Calamitas

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Is Elma sus?

Interesting theory I found on the YT. Heavy spoilers obviously.
Still may be a while before Monolith dives into an X sequel, so we'll have to wait to see what their plans are regarding the game, but still interesting to speculate.
Meh. Not a particularly compelling theory. Also doesn't help that I'm generally pretty apathetic towards the general output of this Luxin guy.

Thing is that statement never meant it wasn't happening, it was just an obvious truth, porting a big game IS difficult and expensive, it's a simple misdirect, you see them in interviews all the time. They can't just say "We'd love to do it, in fact we are doing it, expect a surprise reveal in a couple years time".

If it happens, it's despite it being difficult and expensive, not because it isn't anymore, so I wouldn't sweat that quote at all.
Urgh, don't remind me of that interview. Every time I see someone bring up the potential of X getting a port, there's always inevitably some smartass misquoting that interview and taking it to mean that an X port is never ever gonna happen, literally impossible, don't be ridicilous.
All while a good chunk of the new Switch-era Xenoblade fans are constantly going about how Monolith Soft's next game just has to be Xenoblade 3, which is of course literally the only thing they could be working on.
 

RetrogamerMax

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So with Byleth, Min Min, and Sephiroth bringing all this missing content with them from their series that wasn't in base game, can we all agree that music theory is still alive?
 

RebelMaren

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So with Byleth, Min Min, and Sephiroth bringing all this missing content with them from their series that wasn't in base game, can we all agree that music theory is still alive?
Three Houses came out after Smash so I don't see how that was missing content, Fire Emblem did really well for remixes at launch too.

As for music, it's kinda hard to say. ARMS was produced by Kosuke Yabuki who also directed Mario Kart 8, and it's music was composed by Atsuko Asahi and Yasuaki Iwata who also worked on MK8 and several Smash titles. Sakurai would presumably have dealt with all 3 when implementing MK8 content in Smash 4 as well as Ultimate (There was several new tracks added to the MK stages). It seems to me that there was plenty opportunity for ARMS music at launch, suggesting that talks about how to represent ARMS started years ago, possible prior to ARMS' actual launch.

We assumed for the longest time that FF7 music remained as it was due to legal issues, whether thats the case or they held them off for the DLC is hard to say for sure, personally, considering it was only 9 tracks, I think saving them was probably wise. And besides, if they added tracks but skipped One Winged Angel that would have been pretty sus.

XCX's music could be missing for the same reasons, or it could be legal/cost related. I'd say at the moment it's looking good, the official soundtrack lists the music copyright as belonging to Nintendo and Monolith, through that says nothing to what sort of royalty plan they have set up with Sawano and his people. People often bring up Sony claiming the music on Youtube and suggesting they own it, but they're listed as owning the package of the soundtrack CD. It makes sense that they would claim pirated music released freely online for a product they make money from. And besides, claiming stuff on Youtube is a total mess.

Even assuming they somehow couldn't get XCX music in, and they had no plans to add Elma, I don't really understand why she didn't get a Mii Costume or Assist Trophy.

My hope is that they're just waiting to release her after XCX comes to Switch, which I personally think is very likely, as Monolith have been keeping XCX and even Elma specifically alive through stuff like her cameo in XC2 and her appearances in anniversary art for Monolith and Xenoblade. I constantly see comments online of people hoping for XCX to return so they can revisit it, or play it for the 1st time.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Three Houses came out after Smash so I don't see how that was missing content, Fire Emblem did really well for remixes at launch too.

As for music, it's kinda hard to say. ARMS was produced by Kosuke Yabuki who also directed Mario Kart 8, and it's music was composed by Atsuko Asahi and Yasuaki Iwata who also worked on MK8 and several Smash titles. Sakurai would presumably have dealt with all 3 when implementing MK8 content in Smash 4 as well as Ultimate (There was several new tracks added to the MK stages). It seems to me that there was plenty opportunity for ARMS music at launch, suggesting that talks about how to represent ARMS started years ago, possible prior to ARMS' actual launch.

We assumed for the longest time that FF7 music remained as it was due to legal issues, whether thats the case or they held them off for the DLC is hard to say for sure, personally, considering it was only 9 tracks, I think saving them was probably wise. And besides, if they added tracks but skipped One Winged Angel that would have been pretty sus.

XCX's music could be missing for the same reasons, or it could be legal/cost related. I'd say at the moment it's looking good, the official soundtrack lists the music copyright as belonging to Nintendo and Monolith, through that says nothing to what sort of royalty plan they have set up with Sawano and his people. People often bring up Sony claiming the music on Youtube and suggesting they own it, but they're listed as owning the package of the soundtrack CD. It makes sense that they would claim pirated music released freely online for a product they make money from. And besides, claiming stuff on Youtube is a total mess.

Even assuming they somehow couldn't get XCX music in, and they had no plans to add Elma, I don't really understand why she didn't get a Mii Costume or Assist Trophy.

My hope is that they're just waiting to release her after XCX comes to Switch, which I personally think is very likely, as Monolith have been keeping XCX and even Elma specifically alive through stuff like her cameo in XC2 and her appearances in anniversary art for Monolith and Xenoblade. I constantly see comments online of people hoping for XCX to return so they can revisit it, or play it for the 1st time.
I agree. I do think if they're not adding Elma why didn't she get a Mii costume by now? Maybe they were saving her as a playable fighter in a Challenger Pack later down the road. That would explain the missing Xenoblade X music from base game, but that could also be missing due to legal reasons like you said. But honestly I think it's more likely they're saving that fir Elma's Challenger Pack.
 
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Velvet Rebirth

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We assumed for the longest time that FF7 music remained as it was due to legal issues, whether thats the case or they held them off for the DLC is hard to say for sure, personally, considering it was only 9 tracks, I think saving them was probably wise. And besides, if they added tracks but skipped One Winged Angel that would have been pretty sus.
No recallable sources but I've heard they were having a real tough time with Square on getting Cloud back (Which is the reason why he's barely featured in vanilla spirits) I imagine at the time they were just trying to come to a deal most agreeable for Square which was to just get everything that they already agreed to in 4.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I doubt they’d include the song in Elma’s challenger pack but if they included the instrumental version of Uncontrollable that only plays during time attacks in X, I will never ask for anything ever again

just hearing all those different instruments come together without the vocals, the two chorus portion (first chorus sounds more tense, second is more uplifting).... hnnnnngh it just hits different
 

Starlight Liger

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If I'm being honest, I just don't see any other Nintendo franchise that could get more representation with the fighter's pass than Xenoblade.

Fire Emblem has their Three Houses representative so I'm not expecting another Fire Emblem character, we could get Paper Mario as he's different enough from regular Mario, A Galar Pokemon is guaranteed because it's Pokemon... maybe we could get another The Legend of Zelda character but Link already fills the role for Breath of the Wild representation.

Xenoblade Chronicles as a franchise is just going to grow and what better way to do that than to give it more of a significance in Smash Bros? I'd still prefer Elma over Rex/Pyra but I'd be just as contempt with Rex/Pyra. I just think Elma has more going for her especially since Nintendo is choosing the fighters.
 

True Blue Warrior

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If I'm being honest, I just don't see any other Nintendo franchise that could get more representation with the fighter's pass than Xenoblade.

Fire Emblem has their Three Houses representative so I'm not expecting another Fire Emblem character, we could get Paper Mario as he's different enough from regular Mario, A Galar Pokemon is guaranteed because it's Pokemon... maybe we could get another The Legend of Zelda character but Link already fills the role for Breath of the Wild representation.

Xenoblade Chronicles as a franchise is just going to grow and what better way to do that than to give it more of a significance in Smash Bros? I'd still prefer Elma over Rex/Pyra but I'd be just as contempt with Rex/Pyra. I just think Elma has more going for her especially since Nintendo is choosing the fighters.
A Gen 8 Pokemon has already been disconfirmed for FP2 due to that spirit event.
 

True Blue Warrior

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I agree, but most people don’t...

like I took the L for Legionis when Astral Chain got the Spirit Event, idk why this is any different
Because Pokemon is seen as a special exception, despite the fact there is already precedence for Pokemon not getting any newcomer as DLC so it’s not as inevitable as we think.
 

Megadoomer

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I agree, but most people don’t...

like I took the L for Legionis when Astral Chain got the Spirit Event, idk why this is any different
I guess it's because, with Astral Chain, it's either going to be the main player character or nothing - they're not going to have Jin Wong be the character to represent that game. (I haven't played much of it - I'm just going by what I see on TV Tropes) With Pokemon, there's about a hundred different options per generation, and ruling out about seven different Pokemon doesn't change much. (I don't know who's popular in Sword and Shield, but I think Toxtricity is part of that generation, and there's also the evolved forms of the starters)

I don't think we'll get a Pokemon as a DLC character, since someone involved in the franchise seems hesitant to do that (Mewtwo was a veteran, and it seems like they're obligated to add at least one new Pokemon per game, but between Smash 4 and Ultimate, we haven't gotten any new Pokemon characters as Smash DLC even though you'd think they'd jump at the opportunity), though I'm just making a guess based on what we've already seen. (and that sort of thing has turned out wrong plenty of times in the past)
 

Rie Sonomura

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Spirits do not disconfirm characters as evidenced by MIN MIN. If they did then people would have given up on Elma.
I think he’s referring to post release spirit events. Both Min Min and Elma have spirits in the base game
 

RebelMaren

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I don't think post release spirits deconfirm characters personally. I wouldn't put it past the Smash team to add a spirit event for a future character just to throw the community for a loop, it's not like we weren't VERY vocal about the spirits deconfirm nonsense for over a year. Put it this way, remember when Three Houses and Astral Chain came out and there was no spirit events for either, then Byleth was released? Imagine how many people would expect the Legionis then edit if they didnt do the AC event at the same time.

As for Pokemon, the series is hugely popular and provides for an absolute ton of potentially unique fighting styles that would be hard to find anywhere else, personally I'd love to see what they'd come up with for something like Zacian or Hatterene.

I think Pokemon and Astral Chain are both strong candidates for future fighters.
 
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