Elma for Smash Ultimate: THANK YOU MIN MIN!!!!

RebelMaren

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I've been thinking about something Sakurai said way back when the game was getting ready to launch, about how it was "nearly not Ultimate" or something like that. I take it that means that they nearly didn't get every returning character. If there was a chance they wouldn't get them all during development maybe there was some backup characters they planned to develop to bolster the roster, and since they did get them all, they got shifted to DLC depending on various factors, specifically in Elma's case, to a time where she may be more relevant.

If they didn't consider her for playable at all, I just can't figure out why the music/mii costume got left out. Maybe the moveset the thought up for her was one of the more complicated ones (alongside Min Min and Steve) and it just made sense to give her more development time.
 

Aetheri

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I've been thinking about something Sakurai said way back when the game was getting ready to launch, about how it was "nearly not Ultimate" or something like that. I take it that means that they nearly didn't get every returning character. If there was a chance they wouldn't get them all during development maybe there was some backup characters they planned to develop to bolster the roster, and since they did get them all, they got shifted to DLC depending on various factors, specifically in Elma's case, to a time where she may be more relevant.

If they didn't consider her for playable at all, I just can't figure out why the music/mii costume got left out. Maybe the moveset the thought up for her was one of the more complicated ones (alongside Min Min and Steve) and it just made sense to give her more development time.
Her potential for a moveset is something that does fit along the lines of what Sakurai seems to be going for in this Pass. Min Min and Steve are fighting in completely different ways to other fighters and with Elma potentially switching between her swords and guns and using her overdrive could make her more of an unorthodox pick like we see in the pass so far. She could literally be the first character that can actively switch between movesets without actually changing the character entirely.

Both Min Min and Steve required a lot of work to make them fit into Smash. That said you can stretch that notion for almost any character being added, but for Elma specifically, if she were to be added she wouldn't be an easy character to develop. Alternatively the same could be said for Rex if they implement the Blades into his kit.
 

PSIGuy

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Still think Elma's best chance is if there's something Xeno X related in development that can get the obligatory "upcoming game" slot like FE did the last two times, and that's far from certain. Would be nice if two guns two sword and cool alien planet level was all she needed though.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Maybe the sword/gun system required calibration, or MAYBE she also has an Overdrive mechanic? Idk, I do feel she’d be the type to require fine tuning
 

7NATOR

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Actually there was something I was wondering

So I was thinking of how that one Video where V's (from DMC5) voice actor said that Dante was gonna be in MVC and Smash, if it had merit (which I think there was something going on here), could perhaps suggest that Voice work For Characters are done perhaps Further in advance than we might expect. It's said that Voice work is one of the last things done, but when that Video came out, if it was for Dante being in FP2, that would be too early.

I then remembered that Elma's VA had that NDA that apprantly still hasn't come to fruition. Possibly, do you think she recorded Smash lines in advance in the Case Elma is Picked as DLC? Considering Sakurai brought back Falcon's VA after over 2 Decades of him recording for Falcon just to make Slurping noises, I could see them having Extra VA work in the database...
 

RebelMaren

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I don't think we was saying Dante was going to be in Smash, I'm pretty sure he was saying that he'd love for V to be in Smash but he knows that it would be Dante they'd choose first. Usually voice acting is one of the last things done in development.
 

7NATOR

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I don't think we was saying Dante was going to be in Smash, I'm pretty sure he was saying that he'd love for V to be in Smash but he knows that it would be Dante they'd choose first. Usually voice acting is one of the last things done in development.
Perhaps, It's just the wording made it seem it seem like it wasn't just him speculating. and i guess also considering the DMC Va's apprant history of Leaking things (well mostly Daniel Southworth, Vergil's VA) , is what got eyes on the interview.

In any case, How Long has this NDA thing being a thing anyway, I forget
 

Rie Sonomura

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Perhaps, It's just the wording made it seem it seem like it wasn't just him speculating. and i guess also considering the DMC Va's apprant history of Leaking things (well mostly Daniel Southworth, Vergil's VA) , is what got eyes on the interview.

In any case, How Long has this NDA thing being a thing anyway, I forget
Since November 2018, shortly after Sakurai announced the dlc lineup was complete
 

7NATOR

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Since November 2018, shortly after Sakurai announced the dlc lineup was complete
And it still wasn't clarified, along with that Sawano Music thing I believe

Well Honestly I don't know exactly what this intels. Is this entailing that Elma was Planned for a while now, which could be why She didn't come with her own Mii Costume, why there wasn't any Music (and I thought it had something to do with Sony, but Apparently Sony isn't a Factor at all), and why Catlin has this NDA that has been running for Almost 2 years Now?

I mean, I could kinda see it perhaps if Extra DLC was planned even back when the base game released (but not a Full FP2). I did make a theory that there perhaps were Always Plans for Extra characters this whole time, but I thought those Two characters would have been Ryu and Reimu, and Steve also throws a Wrench into that.

Perhaps also because the Moveset could be Complicated as well, Especially if they make Elma have Stance Switching and also the ability to use her Mech in combat.

I guess one thing I also always found weird was that Sakurai never talked about X. He Mentioned 2 alot, but never made Mention of that game. Especially since it came out in 2015 around when Corrin was DLC, I'm curious the situation with that
 

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Sakurai probably just hasn't played X. He hypothesizes a connection between working on BotW and Monolith Soft's future open world games instead of a connection between the one open-world game Monolith Soft have actually made.

I mean if XB2 is a considerable advancement from a developer's perspective, what does that make an HD seamless open world that ran on last generation hardware?
 

ZA3L

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Sorry if this has been discussed alot before but i'm still wondering about that toy mech Sakurai bought. He said he was using the rifle as a reference point. Even at this point, I haven't seen a single weapon in smash that looks similar to that. In fact, it does have similarities with the rifle on elma's Verus.
 

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Sorry if this has been discussed alot before but i'm still wondering about that toy mech Sakurai bought. He said he was using the rifle as a reference point. Even at this point, I haven't seen a single weapon in smash that looks similar to that. In fact, it does have similarities with the rifle on elma's Verus.
It has been brought up a few times. There's still no accounting for it being used in the game so far.
 

7NATOR

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It has been brought up a few times. There's still no accounting for it being used in the game so far.
I heard it was used to help Model inkling's Animations with them holding their Rifle. I'm sure that was brought up here, but I'm not sure on the differences and Exacts of all that...
 

Calamitas

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I heard it was used to help Model inkling's Animations with them holding their Rifle. I'm sure that was brought up here, but I'm not sure on the differences and Exacts of all that...
Uh, Inkling doesn't actually have any rifle as part of their moveset.
 

7NATOR

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Uh, Inkling doesn't actually have any rifle as part of their moveset.
Even if it's not exactly a Rifle, I thought the reason it could be for Inkling is because Inkling is the Only Character that Animates with a Gun Like Item at all times, So I thought the Mech was for Helping to Visualize how Inkling would move holding a Gun-Like item all the time, even if Inkling's Gun and the Mech Rifle are not the Same
 

Abade

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Even if it's not exactly a Rifle, I thought the reason it could be for Inkling is because Inkling is the Only Character that Animates with a Gun Like Item at all times, So I thought the Mech was for Helping to Visualize how Inkling would move holding a Gun-Like item all the time, even if Inkling's Gun and the Mech Rifle are not the Same
Even more then Zero Suit Samus?
 

7NATOR

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Isn’t Dark Pit Staff more like a rifle?
It is, However Considering that

-He only uses it for his Final Smash
-Dark Pit was already in Smash 4 (and the Rifle was for Ultimate Specifically)

I don't know if Dark pit was the one who needed that Rifle Mech. In any case, I don't know exactly what the Rifle was used for. I just think it possibly could have been used for Inkling, or it Could have been saved for Elma if she was considered for Base roster, or something like that
 

Calamitas

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It is, However Considering that

-He only uses it for his Final Smash
-Dark Pit was already in Smash 4 (and the Rifle was for Ultimate Specifically)

I don't know if Dark pit was the one who needed that Rifle Mech. In any case, I don't know exactly what the Rifle was used for. I just think it possibly could have been used for Inkling, or it Could have been saved for Elma if she was considered for Base roster, or something like that
There's also the staff item, though.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I always thought the mech figure was just that - for the whole ass mech itself

it could be for a Skell final smash
 

7NATOR

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Personally I'd prefer if the Skell was Apart of her Normal Moveset, like maybe she could use it to Assist her, or she could Pilot it for a Time
 

PSIGuy

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I always thought the mech figure was just that - for the whole ass mech itself

it could be for a Skell final smash
Nope, in the interview where he mentions it he specifically mentions he bought it for the attached rifle.
 

RebelMaren

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The google translated quote from that interview certainly makes it sound as if the figure was bought solely for the gun, but doesn't make it clear if it was bought during dev of Ultimate or earlier.

"Last time I bought a Bifam figure. It's an old robot anime. That's not a short-circuit story of making a game of "Galaxy Drifting Vifam". I wanted the included rifle to use as a reference for my work. In that sense of material, I used to buy a lot of strategy guides."

For the record, the figure is 5 inches, so the gun isn't huge.

Is there a better translation of this?
 

PSIGuy

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The original article is here. It's from December 26th, 2016 so it's not like he could've been working on any other game besides Smash at that time.

Whatever he bought it for, it's probably long past any meaningful relevancy.
 

RebelMaren

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Yeah thats the article I pulled my quote from, but Google is pretty unreliable in terms of nuance in translation.
 

Rie Sonomura

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but yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if Elma did take extra time to develop
 

Rie Sonomura

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So, voice theory has made a resurgence. Let me just quote my post from the Octoling thread:


Checking the character’s voice clips in the game, finding missing slots. Last time, shortly before Banjo dropped, a user here found four empty spaces after the four Hero alts. One was obviously banjo, which left two characters. Only thing was there was 3 remaining spaces, leading to a possibility one of them could have an alt with a different voice. It turned out being Terry, Male Byleth and Female Byleth.

and now there are four spots in the pass but five in the voice select. Steve/Alex/Zombie/Enderman is mute and I doubt we’ll get another mute character this pass
like I said I doubt we’ll see another mute character so: I could see one character with two different voiced alts, and the rest voiced characters. Not that I think Elma’s alts will have different voices, but at least it makes me think the rest of pass 2’s characters will be voiced nevertheless
 

Jocario Zero

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So, voice theory has made a resurgence. Let me just quote my post from the Octoling thread:




like I said I doubt we’ll see another mute character so: I could see one character with two different voiced alts, and the rest voiced characters. Not that I think Elma’s alts will have different voices, but at least it makes me think the rest of pass 2’s characters will be voiced nevertheless
Never heard of this theory before. Sounds interesting. It might be something to keep in mind for the future.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Curious thought: what Mii costumes would Elma come with? (Includes non-Xenoblade/non-Nintendo ones)

I could imagine a Lora brawler costume with Elma, a Lin gunner maybe? And for non-Nintendo, if we don’t get a Tales of rep this pass, I think the Lloyd (Symphonia) costume might return in her wave
 

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Curious thought: what Mii costumes would Elma come with? (Includes non-Xenoblade/non-Nintendo ones)

I could imagine a Lora brawler costume with Elma, a Lin gunner maybe? And for non-Nintendo, if we don’t get a Tales of rep this pass, I think the Lloyd (Symphonia) costume might return in her wave
I could see there being a Mecha Fiora Mii swordfighter costume, since the Smash developers don't seem too concerned about that being a spoiler.

Maybe it could be a celebration of the Xeno series as a whole, with KOS-MOS as a gunner, Fei as a brawler, the Smash redesign of Mythra as a swordfighter, and Lin as a gunner? I don't know how likely that is, since unlike Dragon Quest or Persona, the ownership is split between three companies, and I haven't played Xenogears or Xenosaga so I don't know how well those would fit Fei and KOS-MOS, but if Square-Enix is willing to play ball, I could see it happening.
 

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I could see there being a Mecha Fiora Mii swordfighter costume, since the Smash developers don't seem too concerned about that being a spoiler.

Maybe it could be a celebration of the Xeno series as a whole, with KOS-MOS as a gunner, Fei as a brawler, the Smash redesign of Mythra as a swordfighter, and Lin as a gunner? I don't know how likely that is, since unlike Dragon Quest or Persona, the ownership is split between three companies, and I haven't played Xenogears or Xenosaga so I don't know how well those would fit Fei and KOS-MOS, but if Square-Enix is willing to play ball, I could see it happening.
Still hoping for Canon Best Girl ™ Melia as a swordfighter, with her staff as a makeshift melee weapon. Also, if we're going on the theory that returning Namco Miis are picked with newcomers who are similar to them (Heihachi being from a fighting game like Min Min, Gil having a blue sword like Steve) then Lloyd would fit perfectly with Elma being the next newcomer, who also wields dual swords.
 

Rie Sonomura

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so basically, if this isn’t a new IP... a hypothetical XCXDE would have FIVE TIMES the new content added as XCDE did, hypothetically speaking...?

 

Calamitas

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Curious thought: what Mii costumes would Elma come with? (Includes non-Xenoblade/non-Nintendo ones)

I could imagine a Lora brawler costume with Elma, a Lin gunner maybe? And for non-Nintendo, if we don’t get a Tales of rep this pass, I think the Lloyd (Symphonia) costume might return in her wave
I'd personally prefer it if the other Xenoblade games sat that round out for Mii costumes. 1 already has Dunban and 2 already has Rex and Nia. For X, I'd want either a gunner Lin or a swordsman Nagi, maybe both.


so basically, if this isn’t a new IP... a hypothetical XCXDE would have FIVE TIMES the new content added as XCDE did, hypothetically speaking...?
Considering that this whole "new IP" thing might just have been BotW2 all along, I'd certainly hope that that game is going to be another Xenoblade game. And who knows, maybe they really did "finish" X for this next game. Would explain why we're still waiting on that port, at least.
 
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