Elma for Smash Ultimate: THANK YOU MIN MIN!!!!

Wisehunter

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Seeing how all the enhanceable spirits are walking spoilers even for extremely niché games, I feel X got once again shafted, because Elma deserved atleast this treatment

Also now that we know Sakurai started this games roster right after Corrin and Bayonetta released in 4, its clear to me he or Monolith skipped X at this point and it doesn't help that they went to so much lenght to include atleast XB2 content(yes they have WoL battles)

Sakurai had intel on the Switch since the beginning and he had to talk to Monolith to get the rights of Shulk back, so he could easily have chosen Elma there or take a gamble on Rex & Pyra, but nope only Incineroar had the priviledge of a reserved slot.

At this point I feel Monolith has to come clean what the whole situation with X is, because fans deserve closure
Had to comment on this one because this is something that has been in my mind too. The possibility that Monolith was contacted and suggested to "skip" X as they were already working on a new game, or something on these lines. They said they think continuing with the X side of the franchise is important, but they have lied / hidden information in the past, so at this point I am not even sure if I trust Monolith anymore. If they are really going to keep X fans in the dark for too long I will probably just stop supporting them, which saddeness me, because up until now I have been puting a lot of effort to bring more people into the xenoblade fanchise.
 

RawstyleEevee

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Had to comment on this one because this is something that has been in my mind too. The possibility that Monolith was contacted and suggested to "skip" X as they were already working on a new game, or something on these lines. They said they think continuing with the X side of the franchise is important, but they have lied / hidden information in the past, so at this point I am not even sure if I trust Monolith anymore. If they are really going to keep X fans in the dark for too long I will probably just stop supporting them, which saddeness me, because up until now I have been puting a lot of effort to bring more people into the xenoblade fanchise.
I think the chance exists that Xenoblade was at the brink of getting canned, because Monolith and Nintendo admitted that XB2 and Torna overperformed (Fire emblem Awakening scenario) or what I lean to more is that X was an experimental game (The Zelda II or Fire Emblem Gaiden of the series) and Monolith was looking at what concept prints the most money, because Xenoblade overall is a very young franchise and well hate it or like it, the majority prefers the original or 2 the most( Think overall the original though)

Do note this is just my opinion on the situation, but if even if a sliver of this is true, once again X fans deserve answers from Takahashi.

Its weird enough XB2 happend before X2, because the signal you give with X's ending is that there is going to be a sequal, but honestly at this point a sequal should have been announced. (and i'm confident X as a trilogy would be handsdown Metroid Prime trilogy level of a masterpiece), but instead we have Takashi saying stuff that an X port would be to expansive for the Switch, the next Xenoblade should be different "again" and their new IP could be their main priority.
 

Calamitas

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Jesus **** guys, can you lighten up a little? You're all acting as if we just suddenly got an official deconfirmation. As it stands right now, we still have no clue as to whether or not Spirits deconfirm potential DLC characters, and that's not going to change until the contents of all remaining fighter packs. And for that matter, what's with this entire "Monolith Soft is ignoring X too" deal? Are you forgetting just how long these games take to develop (unless they're rushed like 2 was)? Or, I don't know, how Elma literally received the biggest push as crossover DLC character for 2? Monolith Soft isn't ignoring anything.

Also XC2 is not nearly as bad as you say lol
You're right!

It's even worse.
 

[Maple]

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I like XC2

...

But hey that's not the subject. Like Calamitas said it's useless right now to whine, we don't have a hard deconfirmation and things don't look THAT bad.
 

shocktarts17

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Jesus **** guys, can you lighten up a little? You're all acting as if we just suddenly got an official deconfirmation. As it stands right now, we still have no clue as to whether or not Spirits deconfirm potential DLC characters, and that's not going to change until the contents of all remaining fighter packs. And for that matter, what's with this entire "Monolith Soft is ignoring X too" deal? Are you forgetting just how long these games take to develop (unless they're rushed like 2 was)? Or, I don't know, how Elma literally received the biggest push as crossover DLC character for 2? Monolith Soft isn't ignoring anything.



You're right!

It's even worse.
Yes no one has come out and said it deconfirms them for DLC (though you could make an argument that saying Spirits are there to get people in who wouldn't otherwise get in does kind of say that) but no one has said it doesn't either and I personally have yet to hear a reason why it wouldn't that wasn't "but then who would be left?" or wishful thinking.

I don't say this to be pessimistic but to make sure I adjust my expectations accordingly, I still believe in Nintendo and trust them to do this right I just don't think it will include someone who is s spirit. And the worst thing that happens if I'm wrong is I'll be presently surprised.
 

Calamitas

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Yes no one has come out and said it deconfirms them for DLC (though you could make an argument that saying Spirits are there to get people in who wouldn't otherwise get in does kind of say that) but no one has said it doesn't either and I personally have yet to hear a reason why it wouldn't that wasn't "but then who would be left?" or wishful thinking.

I don't say this to be pessimistic but to make sure I adjust my expectations accordingly, I still believe in Nintendo and trust them to do this right I just don't think it will include someone who is s spirit. And the worst thing that happens if I'm wrong is I'll be presently surprised.
I mean, it's not like the characters that somehow don't have Spirits yet are safe from getting them. They added Spirits for the partner Pikachu and Eevee from the Let's Go as a promotional thing, so it's also likely that the same will happen for someone like Sylux when Prime 4 is announced properly or comes out.
 

PSIGuy

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It's possible Monolith Soft DO want to continue X, but realize it's unfeasible for now and put it on the backburner. A port isn't seen as worth the cost (yet) and a sequel might be too expensive and risky for now (the original X took a long time in development and it's likely they'll want to revisit and perfect the original ideas and plot elements they had, meaning a similarly long development time). They originally had no plans for putting Elma in the DLC for XB2 if her late data addition and reused character model is any indication, so it's more like they're waiting for a chance to make it happen.

It does sting a bit that if their current project isn't X related it could be another 5 or 6 years until we hear anything about it, but that's gamedev for ya.
 

Abade

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Just to add the opposite point of view to this conversation, I believe spirits do deconfirm because of how they talked about spirits being "a way to get characters in who didn't make it otherwise." I believe they had MOST of the DLC picked early on and as such didn't feel the need to make spirits for those characters, this is confirmed by Piranha Plant not having a spirit.

I hope I'm wrong as Elma, Ravio, and BWD are all spirits and my 3 most wanteds but until I get some evidence otherwise I'll continue to count them as deconfirmed.

EDIT: Also XC2 is not nearly as bad as you say lol
Piranha Plant is a Spirit as Petey Piranha and Nipper Plant. If Spirits deconfirm characters then the playable characters would be deconfimred like K. Rool because he puts on the Kaptain K. Rool costume in one of his special moves when there's a Kaptain K. Rool Spirit, or how there's an Ancient Minister and Gyromite Spirit for R.O.B. Donkey Kong because there's a Spirit of him playing on bongos, Snake because there's a cardboard box spirit, Wii Fit Trainer, because of the various Yoga poses like Jackknife and breathing is just Wii Fit Trainer doing that.
Here is the list of Spirits:
https://pastebin.com/NCi8Af0N

Super Smash Bros is the same series that has Dr. Mario and Mario as separate characters when Super Mario Odyssey treats Dr. Mario as Mario in a coat or how Chrom is part of Robin's final smash at the same time he's playable and this:
 
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Nonno Umby

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I still can't understand why Spirits would deconfirm characters.

-"Every Fighter Spirits has to be from a game from their original series"
Besides that all characters that have a shot at becoming DLC all have more than just one artwork, Cloud, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin and Pokémon Trainer all use their Ultimate render as their Fighter Spirit, so the DLC might do the same if necessary.

-"Having a Fighter Spirit sharing the same name with a regular Spirit would be impossible"
Wrong, because they could just patch the base game Spirit's name in order to make it less confusing (for example Elma becames Elma (Xenoblade X)), or they could simply leave the same name just like how they did with the Mewtwo and Lucas trophies (which is what Spirits are taking the place of) back in Smash For.

Also if they really left some notable characters out people would have immediately assumed that they would be DLC, as we can see with Sylux and Porky, and we know that Nintendo wants them to be kept secret in order to surprise people (and sell more Fighter Pass to people unaware of its real content), so adding sime last minute Spirits seems to be a good idea to cover it.



Also, while XCX content is almost non existent in the base Smash Ultimate, Monolith Soft isn't ignoring XCX. Elma was highlighted during the XC2 DLC, she was one of Nintendo's big announcments at Gamescom this year, and they even outright stated that they want to make "Xenoblade 3, Xenoblade X 2 and more", so let's not lose hope and keep it cool.
 
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Calamitas

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Hey, heads up: This "Spirits with glasses" event also applies to Tatsu. I was able to get him, which means that now the only X Spirit I'm still missing is the Formula Skell.
Tatsu's Spirit battle was against a team of Jigglypuffs on Battlefield Gaur Plain, with hostile Riki Assist Trophies appearing. Music I believe was just Gaur Plains, if I remember correctly.
. . .Yeah, really not feeling that as a good representation of X.
 

shocktarts17

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I mean, it's not like the characters that somehow don't have Spirits yet are safe from getting them. They added Spirits for the partner Pikachu and Eevee from the Let's Go as a promotional thing, so it's also likely that the same will happen for someone like Sylux when Prime 4 is announced properly or comes out.
Oh I agree, I don't think not having a spirit is confirmation either and wouldn't be surprised at all if Sylux got a promotional spirit.
Piranha Plant is a Spirit as Petey Piranha and Nipper Plant. If Spirits deconfirm characters then the playable characters would be deconfimred like K. Rool because he puts on the Kaptain K. Rool costume in one of his special moves when there's a Kaptain K. Rool Spirit, or how there's an Ancient Minister and Gyromite Spirit for R.O.B. Donkey Kong because there's a Spirit of him playing on bongos, Snake because there's a cardboard box spirit, Wii Fit Trainer, because of the various Yoga poses like Jackknife and breathing is just Wii Fit Trainer doing that.
Here is the list of Spirits:
https://pastebin.com/NCi8Af0N

Super Smash Bros is the same series that has Dr. Mario and Mario as separate characters when Super Mario Odyssey treats Dr. Mario as Mario in a coat or how Chrom is part of Robin's final smash at the same time he's playable and this:
Its not about the impracticality of being a spirit and a fighter, its what spirits represent. Spirits are a way to include characters who wouldn't be in otherwise. No way was Tatsu going to be in the game in any other way so he was added as a spirit. That same logic applies to all of the current spirits since they likely knew who most of the DLC was going to be before working on the spirits.

Piranha Plant is not the same thing as either Petey or Nipper plant and does not have a specific Piranha Plant spirit.

And a fighter "being in a spirit" is not the same thing when they themselves are not the spirit. WFT is not the same thing as the pose Tree. R.O.B. and Mario are not the same thing as when they wear their Ancient Minister and Tennis outfit respectively.

Also Chrom is a very unique situation where I feel very confident he was just added late and they didn't have time to go back and change Robin.

I still can't understand why Spirits would deconfirm characters.

-"Every Fighter Spirits has to be from a game from their original series"
Besides that all characters that have a shot at becoming DLC all have more than just one artwork, Cloud, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin and Pokémon Trainer all use their Ultimate render as their Fighter Spirit, so the DLC might do the same if necessary.

-"Having a Fighter Spirit sharing the same name with a regular Spirit would be impossible"
Wrong, because they could just patch the base game Spirit's name in order to make it less confusing (for example Elma becames Elma (Xenoblade X)), or they could simply leave the same name just like how they did with the Mewtwo and Lucas trophies (which is what Spirits are taking the place of) back in Smash For.
I don't think either of these things apply to why I was saying spirits deconfirm. And yes while they could patch the spirit we have no evidence of them doing that so to assume they will do that is a stretch to make the spirits don't deconfirm argument work.

I know saying all this in a character support thread of someone who has a spirit is a losing battle but I think the best hope for Elma is a wave 2 DLC if one comes, which would likely be able to pull from spirits just fine.
 

Nonno Umby

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Oh I agree, I don't think not having a spirit is confirmation either and wouldn't be surprised at all if Sylux got a promotional spirit.

Its not about the impracticality of being a spirit and a fighter, its what spirits represent. Spirits are a way to include characters who wouldn't be in otherwise. No way was Tatsu going to be in the game in any other way so he was added as a spirit. That same logic applies to all of the current spirits since they likely knew who most of the DLC was going to be before working on the spirits.

Piranha Plant is not the same thing as either Petey or Nipper plant and does not have a specific Piranha Plant spirit.

And a fighter "being in a spirit" is not the same thing when they themselves are not the spirit. WFT is not the same thing as the pose Tree. R.O.B. and Mario are not the same thing as when they wear their Ancient Minister and Tennis outfit respectively.

Also Chrom is a very unique situation where I feel very confident he was just added late and they didn't have time to go back and change Robin.


I don't think either of these things apply to why I was saying spirits deconfirm. And yes while they could patch the spirit we have no evidence of them doing that so to assume they will do that is a stretch to make the spirits don't deconfirm argument work.

I know saying all this in a character support thread of someone who has a spirit is a losing battle but I think the best hope for Elma is a wave 2 DLC if one comes, which would likely be able to pull from spirits just fine.
"Spirits represent characters that wouldn't be present otherwise"
That exactly what Trophies were in the past, and as I already said being a Trophy didn't stop Mewtwo and Lucas.
 

shocktarts17

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"Spirits represent characters that wouldn't be present otherwise"
That exactly what Trophies were in the past, and as I already said being a Trophy didn't stop Mewtwo and Lucas.
Who had the very unique criteria of being cut veterans to Smash. Pretty hard to apply their logic to everything else going forward.
 
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I still can't understand why Spirits would deconfirm characters.

-"Every Fighter Spirits has to be from a game from their original series"
Besides that all characters that have a shot at becoming DLC all have more than just one artwork, Cloud, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin and Pokémon Trainer all use their Ultimate render as their Fighter Spirit, so the DLC might do the same if necessary.

-"Having a Fighter Spirit sharing the same name with a regular Spirit would be impossible"
Wrong, because they could just patch the base game Spirit's name in order to make it less confusing (for example Elma becames Elma (Xenoblade X)), or they could simply leave the same name just like how they did with the Mewtwo and Lucas trophies (which is what Spirits are taking the place of) back in Smash For.

Also if they really left some notable characters out people would have immediately assumed that they would be DLC, as we can see with Sylux and Porky, and we know that Nintendo wants them to be kept secret in order to surprise people (and sell more Fighter Pass to people unaware of its real content), so adding sime last minute Spirits seems to be a good idea to cover it.



Also, while XCX content is almost non existent in the base Smash Ultimate, Monolith Soft isn't ignoring XCX. Elma was highlighted during the XC2 DLC, she was one of Nintendo's big announcments at Gamescom this year, and they even outright stated that they want to make "Xenoblade 3, Xenoblade X 2 and more", so let's not lose hope and keep it cool.
Also you can't use fighter spirits in battle so it wouldn't be confusing even if they had the exact same name

I like XC2

...

But hey that's not the subject. Like Calamitas said it's useless right now to whine, we don't have a hard deconfirmation and things don't look THAT bad.
ngl sometimes it feels illegal to like XC2 here lol
 

Calamitas

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Well, to bring up another point in regards to the Spirits discussion: The existance of Spirits such as Link (The Legend of Zelda), Zelda (Breath of the Wild) and Ganondorf (Twilight Princess) really kinda goes against this notion that Spirits are supposed be there for "those that didn't make it in otherwise", since, as far as Sakurai is concerned, these literally are the same characters. Link and Zelda are a bit arguable in regard to that, but with Ganondorf it's literally just that.

ngl sometimes it feels illegal to like XC2 here lol
I mean, sorry, but if you're that desperate for people being positive in regards to the game, there's hardly a shortage of people who like it. Disliking it seems to be far from the majority opinion here.
 
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shocktarts17

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Well, to bring up another point in regards to the Spirits discussion: The existance of Spirits such as Link (The Legend of Zelda), Zelda (Breath of the Wild) and Ganondorf (Twilight Princess) really kinda goes against this notion that Spirits are supposed be there for "those that didn't make it in otherwise", since, as far as Sakurai is concerned, these literally are the same characters. Link and Zelda are a bit arguable in regard to that, but with Ganondorf it's literally just that.
Each of those have a reason for being in due to the nature of their fighter though. Link's BotW is a new look so it makes sense to give some love to his old and more traditional look. Zelda is not represented by her BotW look and conversely it makes sense to use her most recent appearance as a spirit since she doesn't look that way as a fighter. Finally Ganondorf went back to his classic look but that's hardly his most recent look, nor the one used in past Smash games, so it also makes sense to give him a spirit showing a more recent incarnation of Ganondorf.

And at the end of the day all of those are other versions of a fighter, not the fighter themselves.
 

RawstyleEevee

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I discovered today that alternate versions of a character that are a costume option like Meta Ridley are also labeled as fighter spirits, so I feel this whole situations is getting even more messy, then it was before.
 

Camc10

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I discovered today that alternate versions of a character that are a costume option like Meta Ridley are also labeled as fighter spirits, so I feel this whole situations is getting even more messy, then it was before.
If the character is playable or a alt, it's a Fighter Spirit. Everything else, including characters or forms related to Final Smashes such as Super Sonic, are normal Spirits.
 

RawstyleEevee

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If the character is playable or a alt, it's a Fighter Spirit. Everything else, including characters or forms related to Final Smashes such as Super Sonic, are normal Spirits.
So if what you are saying that if for example Bowser Jr.'s Koopalings alts are also fighter spirits its a red flag then? (I only unlocked Meta Ridley), but if all fighters acts this way, something is up imo
 

aarchak

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So if what you are saying that if for example Bowser Jr.'s Koopalings alts are also fighter spirits its a red flag then? (I only unlocked Meta Ridley), but if all fighters acts this way, something is up imo
Well, Yarn Yoshi isn't a fighter spirit, despite being an alt for Yoshi. He's just a primary spirit.
 

chocolatejr9

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Well, Yarn Yoshi isn't a fighter spirit, despite being an alt for Yoshi. He's just a primary spirit.
Technically, that's Crafted Yoshi, based more on his appearance in Yoshi's Crafted World, which isn't even out yet. They might not have any artwork to use for it. I get what you're trying to say, though.
 

aarchak

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Technically, that's Crafted Yoshi, based more on his appearance in Yoshi's Crafted World, which isn't even out yet. They might not have any artwork to use for it. I get what you're trying to say, though.
Well, I looked, and the actual spirit is called "Yarn Yoshi" and the series is just "Yoshi Series", so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

RandomAce

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I’m spoofed at people saying that X doesn’t have a lot of character going on...


Skell fan fiction... Elma why must you not let us hear more.
 

Nonno Umby

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Crafted Yoshi HAS a fighter Spirit, I just unlocked it.
I really think that people are looking too much for finding a pattern where it really isn't.
 

PSIGuy

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Finally had Elma's spirit battle appear on the Spirit Board! Jeanne palette Bayonetta on Gaur Plains. Pretty appropriate.
 

Senatiator

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Oh I agree, I don't think not having a spirit is confirmation either and wouldn't be surprised at all if Sylux got a promotional spirit.

Its not about the impracticality of being a spirit and a fighter, its what spirits represent. Spirits are a way to include characters who wouldn't be in otherwise. No way was Tatsu going to be in the game in any other way so he was added as a spirit. That same logic applies to all of the current spirits since they likely knew who most of the DLC was going to be before working on the spirits.

Piranha Plant is not the same thing as either Petey or Nipper plant and does not have a specific Piranha Plant spirit.

And a fighter "being in a spirit" is not the same thing when they themselves are not the spirit. WFT is not the same thing as the pose Tree. R.O.B. and Mario are not the same thing as when they wear their Ancient Minister and Tennis outfit respectively.

Also Chrom is a very unique situation where I feel very confident he was just added late and they didn't have time to go back and change Robin.


I don't think either of these things apply to why I was saying spirits deconfirm. And yes while they could patch the spirit we have no evidence of them doing that so to assume they will do that is a stretch to make the spirits don't deconfirm argument work.

I know saying all this in a character support thread of someone who has a spirit is a losing battle but I think the best hope for Elma is a wave 2 DLC if one comes, which would likely be able to pull from spirits just fine.
Actually no, they are the same "thing". If Superman wears glasses and call himself Clark Kent, is he not the same character? By that argument you would include Elma's true form then as not being in means she can still appear as a Fighter just as how people suggest the presence of Yarn Poochy but not Poochy's original form could be playable. If there's "implication" they should add music from Xenoblade X, they would add Elma's original form as an "Enhanced" spirit, they would name "Xenoblade Chronicles X" as a title among the hundreds they did. They would add more Xenoblade X spirits like Nagi Kentaro and the rest of the party members just as how they done for Xenoblade 2. they would add Luxaar as a spirit just as how they did with Mumkhar. They would add an Assist Trophy like Lin or Tatsu. They show capabilities of fighting after all. They would appear in the World of Light Adventure mode. They would state that characters can't have more then one role when they already done that such as Ratahalos being a boss and a assist trophy. Duck Hunt being in a stage and playable. Piranha Plant being in a stage and playable. Does Petey Piranha not appear on the battleground with the other playable characters? If they haven't state that they blacklisted 1000+ chracters and will never be playable because of some arbitrary jpg then why not use another one? What will the 30 Characters IDs be used for? When did they say Chrom isn't allowed to have more then one role?
The "same name so it can't happen" is invalid when there's two Roys playable. Two Zeros. The tall, gray Starman from EarthBound with the cape-wearing, star-shaped enemy from Kirby, or the bouncing invincibility item from Super Mario Bros. appears.

And what these people say:
Nothing about Elma's "chances" or whatever change. No X music, No True Elma, Bill's slip-up which he will get fired for it again Caitlin Glass is still being vague. Elma got her own Xenoblade 2 trailer and called "famous", by the Red Cube guys, the toy mech's purpose is still not revealed. Sawano's composing for a unknown project is not revealed yet
https://twitter.com/sawano_nZk/status/979240606177247232
https://www.reddit.com/r/Xenoblade_...ikely_is_it_for_xenobladex_representation_in/
To reiterate:



Piranha Plant has three spirits:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PXl1nNYPU6m8AQ-PY7Q5yeVnDbazdNB3/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13Z73xZZ344LLdK7WgQx4zkVVnOu2k9IS/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dIDWdQxPihWKO2gWbHADrK3QaJPnI0PS/view
So does Wii Fit Trainer, K. Rool, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Daisy, etc. It's only for gameplay.
Also, Elma's true form is still absent. It could be used as a powered up form like others such as Revolver Ocelot changing from his Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater self to his Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain self. But she is not there for unknown reasons besides being stuck on a whole different planet.


Other characters such as Cloud Strife also uses his Smash artwork.
Well, yes. The game has indicated they would use their Smash appearance.


This is ignoring that Elma has more than one artwork to use.

 
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Camc10

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On the Spirits argument, I think Spirits deconfirm, but I also think Nintendo planned out who the dlc was already during the making of the game, so any dlc characters they have won't have Spirits for Wave 1 till they come out.
 

Calamitas

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I just really hope that we can put this entire "Do Spirits deconfirm characters???" to rest soon. preferably, with Elma being announced for DLC pack 2.
 

RawstyleEevee

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I just really hope that we can put this entire "Do Spirits deconfirm characters???" to rest soon. preferably, with Elma being announced for DLC pack 2.
If you want to get closure on the spirits subject, we most likely will have our definitive answer next year, because DLC pack 2 is either not happening(because the basegame is build only for one pack really) or you have to wait till 2020.

The only way to destroy spirit theory is that we get a character that had a spirit in basegame, the naming of the Fighter spirit is the same as his/her regular spirit (Elma = Elma), because thats how it is for all the other spirits that have alternate forms (which only got amplified by the Lets Go Eevee Spirit)

If we get a character that follows all these rulings, then you can 100% say we have a Lucas and Mewtwo trophy situation, but lets be a bit realistic here those are some barriers you need to break first.

The things that fuel spirit theory still.

1. Pirahna Plant is missing out of 1300 choices

2. Alternate forms of characters have names that show they are differiated from the real character. (Lets take Link for example, it is true that there are other spirits for him that are named Link, but they are named like this "Link (The Legend of Zelda)", but the spirit with just the name "Link" is his fighter spirit. and you can apply this to all the other characters in the 1300 pool)

3. Alternate costumes for characters are fighter spirits to, which fuels point 2 even more.

I offcourse want spirit theory to be killed, but its slowly becoming the New Box Theory and I learned from previous Smash speculations, its best to lower your expectations if something like this pops up, because most of the time the doom scenario becomes real (well for Smash always really, R.O.B and Wolf for Brawl, ESRB for Smash 4 and Box Theory for Ultimate)
 

Calamitas

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If you want to get closure on the spirits subject, we most likely will have our definitive answer next year, because DLC pack 2 is either not happening(because the basegame is build only for one pack really) or you have to wait till 2020.
I don't mean Wave 2, I mean Pack 2. They explicitly called the Joker DLC Pack 1, so the remaining four will be Packs 2 to 5.

That would depend on with Elma it is.
. . .What are you even trying to say?
 

PSIGuy

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I think it's less "Spirits deconfirm" and more that the DLC will all be outside-Nintendo picks that didn't make sense to have Spirits in the base game, and all the current Spirits were characters that were known to not make it in the base game but are fair game the moment they look at new DLC characters.

So Elma's a 2nd Fighter's Pass candidate at the earliest, if that. For now I'm just gonna admire my collection of 3 Elmas, 2 Lins, 2 Formulas and 8 Tatsu Spirits.
 

KidCham

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I think it's less "Spirits deconfirm" and more that the DLC will all be outside-Nintendo picks that didn't make sense to have Spirits in the base game, and all the current Spirits were characters that were known to not make it in the base game but are fair game the moment they look at new DLC characters.

So Elma's a 2nd Fighter's Pass candidate at the earliest, if that. For now I'm just gonna admire my collection of 3 Elmas, 2 Lins, 2 Formulas and 8 Tatsu Spirits.
yeah i dont think it deconfirms for wave 2 of DLC, like Rex&Pyra are a shoe in given the statut

But i also think wave 1 will be entirely guests so nothing Nintendo

Maybe they wont do wave 2 of DLC but rather some additionnal packs, like Xenoblade pack with Elma and Rex, Kirby pack or that kind of stuff
 

shocktarts17

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Actually no, they are the same "thing". If Superman wears glasses and call himself Clark Kent, is he not the same character?
Yes when they label them differently in existing spirits it means they are not the fighter version but a different version. Since Elma did not get such a label we cannot make the same assumption about her. Not to mention her spirit is her in her default outfit and how she appeared in XC2, not the same thing as being a spirit of her wearing a tennis outfit.

By that argument you would include Elma's true form then as not being in means she can still appear as a Fighter just as how people suggest the presence of Yarn Poochy but not Poochy's original form could be playable.
Yes technically you could suggest that Elma's true form still has a shot as a fighter but again considering her appearance in all promotional material and the XC2 DLC I seriously doubt they would decide to have her look completely different then how most people would know her as.

If there's "implication" they should add music from Xenoblade X, they would add Elma's original form as an "Enhanced" spirit, they would name "Xenoblade Chronicles X" as a title among the hundreds they did. They would add more Xenoblade X spirits like Nagi Kentaro and the rest of the party members just as how they done for Xenoblade 2. they would add Luxaar as a spirit just as how they did with Mumkhar. They would add an Assist Trophy like Lin or Tatsu. They show capabilities of fighting after all. They would appear in the World of Light Adventure mode.
I'm not really following you here, can you explain this part again?

They would state that characters can't have more then one role when they already done that such as Ratahalos being a boss and a assist trophy. Duck Hunt being in a stage and playable. Piranha Plant being in a stage and playable. Does Petey Piranha not appear on the battleground with the other playable characters?
Its apples and oranges. Even in Smash 4 we've seen that being in the background of the stage doesn't mean anything because Toon Link was. But with Spirits they have been specifically called out as included because they won't get in any other way. And while Petey does show up in PP's final smash he is not the same character, and Super Sonic is a spirit so we see that final smash's that include other characters get spirits.

If they haven't state that they blacklisted 1000+ chracters and will never be playable because of some arbitrary jpg then why not use another one?
No one is stating they blacklisted them, I'm pretty sure every single person who thinks spirits deconfirm believe that it only counts for the first fighter's pass, a potential Wave 2 would have everyone be fair game.

What will the 30 Characters IDs be used for?
Places holders in the code to make sure they don't have to recode the game later, it makes sense to have extra because characters like Bowser Jr uses 8 by himself so they probably just wanted to make sure they didn't run out. It does not imply that there is more DLC coming.

When did they say Chrom isn't allowed to have more then one role?
Again, Chrom is a very unique situation of being included in Robin's final smash due to his popularity then added again later as an echo which are done with minimal effort. Since we know none of the fighter's pass will be echos Chrom's situation doesn't apply, even if it did relate in any way to the Spirits discussion.

The "same name so it can't happen" is invalid when there's two Roys playable. Two Zeros. The tall, gray Starman from EarthBound with the cape-wearing, star-shaped enemy from Kirby, or the bouncing invincibility item from Super Mario Bros. appears.
But that's still not the same thing as the same character showing up twice, since when that happened they were stated to be different with parenthesis.

Look you do you, I'm not telling you that you can't still think someone who has a spirit could be in this first fighter's pass. However if you decide to ignore the evidence and get your expectations up then you can only blame yourself when they aren't met.
 

Luviant X

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The DLC characters were finalized sometime after the base game.

If Nintendo decided later they wanted to add a character, I doubt they would look back and say, "Oh no, that character already has a spirit in the game. Too bad. Guess we can't add them."
 
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The DLC characters were finalized sometime after the base game.

If Nintendo decided later they wanted to add a character, I doubt they would look back and say, "Oh no, that character already has a spirit in the game. Too bad. Guess we can't add them."
I'm fairly certain the DLC was decided alongside the project plan for DLC considering how Rex was deconfirmed because he was "too new" despite his game coming out before Ultimate.
 
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RawstyleEevee

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I'm fairly certain the DLC was decided alongside the project plan for DLC considering how Rex was deconfirmed because he was "too new" despite his game coming out before Ultimate.
I don't think it was decided in 2016, but I would not rule out end of 2017 or 2018, because I doubt Sakurai got the rights to Joker this month lol, because if the season pass will be full 3rd Party they already covered all licensing at this point.
 
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