Elma for Smash Ultimate: Don't worry about the future, it's alright!

RawstyleEevee

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I might as well add my Elma DLC pack proposal, mainly for music choices

Character: Elma

Stage: Noctilum
-Would be a scrolling stage, showcasing the rainsforest area, waterfall and the divine roost, perhaps with a view of dead man's gulch in the background somewhere
-various enemies can be seen in the background though none will attack the players, Telethia the Endbringer can been seen in the background of the Divine Roost
-Omega and Battlefield would be floating around the waterfall areas


Music:
ThemeX
Black Tar (instrumental)
The Key We've Lost
Uncontrollable
Noctilum (Day)
Primordia (Day)
Telethia the Endbringer would honestly have been a great concept for a boss
 

Calamitas

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Personally as someone whose still relatively new to Xenoblade and has not played 2, seeing Rex being treated like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread irks me a little bit mainly cause I'm freaking sick of his character archetype.
I know I probably sound like a broken record about this, but Rex is honestly one of my most disliked things in all of 2. The guy is extremely generic in terms of personality, undergoes barely any character development, and yet is treated as the greatest, most important person in the entire world in addition to getting a whole bunch of undeserved unique gameplay mechanics dedicated to him. Seeing the fanbase treat him like this in regards to Smash makes it just all the more grating.

Only instrumental? Weak. Black Tar with lyrics is obviously the only way to go.
 
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I know I probably sound like a broken record about this, but Rex is honestly one of my most disliked things in all of 2. The guy is extremely generic in terms of personality, undergoes barely any character development, and yet is treated as the greatest, most important person in the entire world in addition to getting a whole bunch of undeserved unique gameplay mechanics dedicated to him. Seeing the fanbase treat him like this in regards to Smash makes it just all the more grating.



Only instrumental? Weak. Black Tar with lyrics is obviously the only way to go.
HELP IF YOU CAN
PLEASE WAKE ME UP
NOT TO SOUND CLICHE
BUT NO STAGE BUILDER SUCKS
 

ZelDan

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With Nintendo at the helm with dlc, I see Elma, Bandana Dee, and Edelgard as the trinity.
Certainly possible, and I would be okay with these 3 choices (especially Elma obviously)

I know alot of people would reach critical salt levels over Edelgard, but if she does indeed use an axe and magic and was overall unique compared to other FE characters I could accept it.
 
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I HIGHLY doubt that all the DLC characters are gonna be advertising. There's bound to be some characters that Nintendo just saw and were like "hey sakurai would these dudes be cool as fighters" and Sakurai was like "yeah". Besides, at this point any character from any franchise would be advertising.

For example, is someone has never played Xenoblade and thsy just think Elma looks cool they would search up "elma xenoblade" and even though they dont have a wii u (probably) they'll still see things about Xenoblade 2 for the Switch and buy that (even if the Elma dlc wasn't a thing they'll still see the same results)
 

Sysreq

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I know I probably sound like a broken record about this, but Rex is honestly one of my most disliked things in all of 2. The guy is extremely generic in terms of personality, undergoes barely any character development, and yet is treated as the greatest, most important person in the entire world in addition to getting a whole bunch of undeserved unique gameplay mechanics dedicated to him. Seeing the fanbase treat him like this in regards to Smash makes it just all the more grating.
/is someone who wants Rex & Pyra in Smash :upsidedown:

Rex isn't my favorite character in XB2, but I think he's groan-worthy at worst and hardly loathesome. I only want Rex & Pyra for Pyra tbh (I've cosplayed her too), but as someone else mentioned, he's kind of an unfortunate necessity being the protag.

Don't get me wrong though, I want Elma too. And if I could, I'd advocate for just Pyra, but she's tethered to Rex. I just thought this intense hate for Rex from people is a little weird when he's not that terrible and his existence isn't particularly egregious.
 

Luviant X

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/is someone who wants Rex & Pyra in Smash :upsidedown:

Rex isn't my favorite character in XB2, but I think he's groan-worthy at worst and hardly loathesome. I only want Rex & Pyra for Pyra tbh (I've cosplayed her too), but as someone else mentioned, he's kind of an unfortunate necessity being the protag.

Don't get me wrong though, I want Elma too. And if I could, I'd advocate for just Pyra, but she's tethered to Rex. I just thought this intense hate for Rex from people is a little weird when he's not that terrible and his existence isn't particularly egregious.
Rex isn't bad.

He was a poor man's Shulk. Wasn't the most likable in XC2, but he had his own quirks and fulfilled the role of main character. He just didn't exactly jump off the screen at me.

Compare him with Elma though (or some of the characters in his own game)...makes his blemishes a bit more glaring.
 
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Phoebe3315

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As for DLC...well, what Vergeben believes is we're getting Steve (Minecraft), a Square Enix character, and [probably] a Granblue Fantasy character (Katalina). These characters actually do make more sense now that we know Nintendo made the selection for Sakurai to choose from. Granblue Fantasy is absolutely huge in Japan, and as a mobile game it might draw players to Smash who haven't played it before. The same could be said about Minecraft. As for the Square Enix character, I think Dragon Quest was mentioned (again, huge in Japan), but I would hope they would go with Sora instead if they're already adding a character 99% of the West has no idea who is. That's already 2-3 characters who could draw people to Smash. I won't assume every DLC character will be an attempt to make money, but to even out the DLC lineup it'd be good having a relatively unknown Nintendo character like Elma who might be relevant in big games for years to come...
 
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Katalina thing was already confirmed dead because talks didn't go through according to Vergeben.
His current guess for Squeenix is a DQ character but nothing solid. As well as never saying it was a -character- for Minecraft, only content related to Minecraft which means anything ranging from Mii Costumes, Music, Spirits, etc.
 

Phoebe3315

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Katalina thing was already confirmed dead because talks didn't go through according to Vergeben.
His current guess for Squeenix is a DQ character but nothing solid. As well as never saying it was a -character- for Minecraft, only content related to Minecraft which means anything ranging from Mii Costumes, Music, Spirits, etc.
Awesome, sorry I might not be best at keeping up with what Vergeben says. I wouldn't be against Katalina, but I'd prefer someone else. I know he never said Steve specifically, although Sakurai hasn't said any more Mii Costumes or Spirits will be put into the game with the DLC, aside from Xenoblade 2 content. A Minecraft stage could be great and a big draw if it's randomly generated (maybe you could even destroy the blocks?), so I bet that's what they're gonna go for.
 

Calamitas

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/is someone who wants Rex & Pyra in Smash :upsidedown:

Rex isn't my favorite character in XB2, but I think he's groan-worthy at worst and hardly loathesome. I only want Rex & Pyra for Pyra tbh (I've cosplayed her too), but as someone else mentioned, he's kind of an unfortunate necessity being the protag.

Don't get me wrong though, I want Elma too. And if I could, I'd advocate for just Pyra, but she's tethered to Rex. I just thought this intense hate for Rex from people is a little weird when he's not that terrible and his existence isn't particularly egregious.
Right, I should probably elaborate a bit more, then. By himself, Rex isn't that bad. But the big problem with him simply is, as you've said, he's the protagonist.

The story in XBC2 in general is just something that you could basically compare to that of a Ghibli movie: You've got a world that is slowly dying, humanity on the decline, themes of the hubris of mankind, free will and its destruction of and influence on the environment.
And then, on top of all that. . . we get a protagonist who wouldn't feel out of place in a badly written shonen anime. He reflects not one of these deeper themes, and is nonetheless constantly praised and worshipped by the story. Best example of this is his interactions with Vandham: Rex apparently masters in a couple of minutes a technique that Vandham took decades to learn, and then, after his death, he just makes Rex his successor. A little brat that he knew for what, a couple of days at most? And then there's his bond with Pyra/Mythra, which is constantly talked about as if it's this deep and amazing thing, and how they are just so linked to one another, when honestly? Their relationship is nothing special, and any scene the game dedicates to their romance ends up being obnoxious. And then, later, when he unlocks their true power he just does it by. . . yelling about how he accepts her.
What also doesn't really help is how it just never really feels like the guy goes through any lasting hardship. To recap, he begins the story by already being an orphan - which doesn't really matter that much, since his parents died before he was even old enough to know them. Then, when the party lands in Gormott, Azura "dies" - except it immediately turns out that he's fine, so no worries there. When Vandham dies, it does for a moment seem like he gets a couple of good moments - but then, the next day after that, he's already bounced back to being normal, and Vandham is literally never talked about again. Then, later, when Mythra gets taken by the Torna, he has this five-minute-retirement, where he gives up, but all it takes is one pep talk from everyone and he's already willing to fight again. Then, when Nia confesses her love for him, he just doesn't get it, and, just like Vandham, it's never talked about again, unless you count one possible post-battle dialogue that kinda references it. At the cliffs of Morytha, it seems for a moment like he has to deal with Pyra/Mythra being dead - but nah, like I mentioned above, they're fine. And then, in the ending, after such ginormous deal is made out of how Pyra/Mythra sacrifices herself, how she's definitely gonna be dead now, he can't save her, she has her last words with Malos - she's just fine, comes back, and is even two people now! It's just like. . . every single opportunity that Rex has to go through some character-building/developing hardship, the game just instantly yanks it away and goes "Nah, don't worry, it's fine!".
I'm not saying that Rex is fundamentally flawed in regards to his writing. I have plenty of ideas on how you could change the story to make him more interesting and intriguing, like playing out his "retirement" after Pyra/Mythra gets taken by the Torna some more, and have Nia pull him back from it while the party goes on ahead into the Spirit Cruciple without him. Or having it so that Vandham is his adoptive father, which in turn would not only make better use of Vandham, but also give Rex a better chance to actually develop as a character based on Vandham's death.
And then, in terms of gameplay, he just gets way too much exclusive **** thrown at him. Four story Blades, being the one salvager in the party, getting access to Pneuma, and freely engaging with any Blade later on. The last one really should've been just a feature for the entire party in general, outside of course story Blades.

In short, I just feel like Monolith Soft took every opportunity they had to make Rex as underwhelming of a character as possible, while also using every opportunity to hype him up as the greatest thing ever (which, for the record, is also something that bothered me with Shulk when it started happening in the late game of 1). So, really. . . I suppose the reason why Rex just pisses me off so much is because there was a lot of potential there, and it was all squandered - and yet people act like there's absolutely nothing wrong with him (except for maybe his voice). As it stands, he's just my most hated character in the entire series, which in 2 in particular puts him ahead of even Tora and Dahlia.

Oh, and one short last thing: I don't care much for Pyra, either. I'm not gonna go into detail on that, since I think I already wrote a big enough wall of text here. But what I'll say is, her personality is equally underwhelming to me, and her design is probably the most terrible character design I've ever seen in a Nintendo game. I kinda like Mythra, especially after her role in Torna: The Golden Country as well as her father-daughter dynamic with Addam there, but her design isn't much better than Pyra's. Pneuma's design is almost alright, but doesn't quite stick the landing.

Sorry that this got so long, but I hope you can understand where I come from with all of this. As of right now, the Xenoblade series is probably my favourite Nintendo series, so my disappontments with 2 are just all the more annoying to me, especially since it's this game that's bringing so many people into the series now.

Anyway, to get a bit more on-topic again. . .

Can we just like, have all 3 complete osts from all the Xenoblade games in Smash? You can cut everything else that'll be worth it
The two songs I want from 2 are Zeke's Battle Theme and Mor Ardain's daytime theme. Unless those two songs make it in, the representation of 2 in Smash cannot be perfect, no matter which character from the game unexpectedly makes it in over Rex and Pyra.
 

Flyboy

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Awesome, sorry I might not be best at keeping up with what Vergeben says. I wouldn't be against Katalina, but I'd prefer someone else. I know he never said Steve specifically, although Sakurai hasn't said any more Mii Costumes or Spirits will be put into the game with the DLC, aside from Xenoblade 2 content. A Minecraft stage could be great and a big draw if it's randomly generated (maybe you could even destroy the blocks?), so I bet that's what they're gonna go for.
Yeah, even though a lot of those rumors don't come from Verge and are just attributed to him, the "Minecraft content" one is definitely something he said. Katalina was from someone Verge considers credible but he himself hasn't heard the rumor.

That said it really is funny how this thread seems so much cooler with the idea of the DLC rumors than most others. This just seems to be a really positive place, haha.

(I would also love a destructible Minecraft stage for what it's worth)
 

Condenir

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Katalina thing was already confirmed dead because talks didn't go through according to Vergeben.
His current guess for Squeenix is a DQ character but nothing solid. As well as never saying it was a -character- for Minecraft, only content related to Minecraft which means anything ranging from Mii Costumes, Music, Spirits, etc.
I thought verge was just saying that his source said it was possible that it didn’t go past negotiations. Did he say that they confirmed didn’t?

Funny...was really going to be okay with her being added
 
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Well, I personally wouldn't be against Katalina but by all means I would prefer her not being part of it....because she'd get a lot of hate from the more rabid Western fans. I can already see her being given derogatory terms as well as the typical "lol sword looks like fire emblem character" kinda banter. I think Granblue and Smash are best left mutually exclusive unless it's just small things like Spirits or Music (iwouldlovethemusic)


myavataristotallynotfromgranbluenop
 
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Phoebe3315

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I thought verge was just saying that his source said it was possible that it didn’t go past negotiations. Did he say that they confirmed didn’t?

Funny...was really going to be okay with her being added
I'm okay with her too as long as Sakurai can make her as cool and unique as recent newcomers. The fact that she wields a sword doesn't necessarily mean much; Corrin has one but it's only really used in the tilts and 2 aerials. It's true though that Katalina most likely would receive hate from Western fans because "random sword user," and I wouldn't want her if it meant no Elma.
 

MeekMeek93

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Just want to drop my Elma DLC pack as well! Gotta showcase an insane music count!

Character: Elma
Stage: NLA/Noctilum/Mira Traveling Stage that showcases the most beautiful parts of Mira
Boss: Telethia/Ryyz and Dagahn
Music:
1. CODENAMEZ
2. THEMEX
3. NO.EX01
4. MONOX
5. Wir Fliegen
6. Black Tar (both parts)
8. Uncontrollable
9. By My Side
10. Boss Battle (second part)
11. Ganglion Skell Battle
12. The Key We've Lost (both parts)
14. Primordia (day)
15. Noctilum (day)
16.
NLA (day)
17. Oblivia (day)
18. Melancholia
19. aBOreSSs (Requiem only)
20. In the forest (X->Z)
21. Sylvalum (night)
22. Cauldros (day)
23. raTEoREkiSImeAra (both parts; second part for Telethia boss battle)
25. Don't Worry
26. Xenoblade X Medley


I want them to go Castlevania on Xenoblade X, and give the X stage about 26 tracks!
 
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Phoebe3315

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Just want to drop my Elma DLC pack as well! Gotta showcase an insane music count!

Character: Elma
Stage: NLA/Noctilum/Mira Traveling Stage that showcases the most beautiful parts of Mira
Boss: Telethia/Ryyz and Dagahn
Music:
1. CODENAMEZ
2. THEMEX
3. NO.EX01
4. MONOX
5. Wir Fliegen
6. Black Tar (both parts)
8. Uncontrollable
9. By My Side
10. Boss Battle (second part)
11. Ganglion Skell Battle
12. The Key We've Lost (both parts)
14. Primordia (day)
15. Noctilum (day)
16.
NLA (day)
17. Oblivia (day)
18. Melancholia
19. aBOreSSs (Requiem only)
20. In the forest (X->Z)
21. Sylvalum (night)
22. Cauldros (day)
23. raTEoREkiSImeAra (both parts; second part for Telethia boss battle)
25. Don't Worry
26. Xenoblade X Medley


I want them to go Castlevania on Xenoblade X, and give the X stage about 26 tracks!
I would love this but there's so little chance of it happening. If I got to pick 9 tracks, it'd probably be #1-3, 6, 8, 10, 12, 25, & 26 from your list with the Melody consisting of area themes which is timed to match up with which continent you're currently at. It's hard to choose...
 

DNeon

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I know this is 2 pages ago but things move fast ok...

That's a weird take when Nintendo's president literally commented a few days ago about Smash being of great use to promote their games and characters and they never said anything about third party reps being picked for money, it was always just because Sakurai wanted them.
Thing is that 'their' games could simply mean 'the games we want to sell on our console. Remember that the design of the Switch, especially from a software side was a VERY conscious step from Nintendo to draw in more third party support and to move themselves away from the library of just Nintendo produced games that the Wii U and 3DS became.

From Nintendo's standpoint, they're not making money from some kind of deal with the makers to advertise their game for them, they're very much still advertising the games that are coming to their console, that Nintendo will still profit off and are still very much part of Nintendo's library of games to sell. If Switch ports/editions of the games sell better then it's still a massive plus for Nintendo. Just look at the bigger directs of the year, or their current ad campaigns to see Fortnite, Minecraft and EA Sports take up significant air time.

Niot implying that those are the series that DLC characters will come from, but just pointing out that Nintendo as a company is now very much trying to be more than just a 'Nintendo only club'.
 

Phoebe3315

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Ugh....it makes me annoyed seeing GameXplain go on about Rex & Pyra in their DLC predictions video for over 3 minutes and end with "Those are the two I'm most confident in making in." And, okay, it's technically possible that they will. But every time Sakurai has been seemingly not clear on something regarding Smash Ultimate and people expected more, they were wrong. Sakurai said "The total number of stages is 103." Sakurai said "Don't expect many newcomers." After revealing that there will be 5 more characters as DLC, Sakurai said "We decided which fighters to include when we started planning, so we couldn't add characters from titles like Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which was announced after planning had started. I hope this outfit will help make you feel like you're playing as Rex." The fact that the Xenoblade 2 content isn't even going to be in the base game, instead being a purchase bonus for the Fighters Pass, kinda proves that it was a pretty late addition. And if Rex was going to be one of the DLC fighters, but Sakurai somehow made the Mii outfit before knowing that, it makes no sense to not just throw it into the base game.
 

Red Dead Redeemed

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Yeah, I have a lot of doubts about Rex getting in. The fact that Sakurai was clear on why he didn't make it in, and that he actually spent time saying it shows he probably won't add Rex as DLC. If he was going to, why say all that stuff about why he couldn't put Rex in?
Not in this first 5-Man wave anyhow. If there is a season 2 (which there likely will be, this thing is a bloody goldmine) then all bets are off. For this season though? Not happening. Elma is still by far the best shot at Xenoblade representation.
 

aarchak

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Elma in wave 1 and Rex in wave 2 is the best case realistic scenario for Xenoblade fans tbh. Gotta get all that Xenoblade representation up in here!

Also, prepare for cries of "Sakurai bias" if a Xenoblade character gets in. They will probably be VERY loud if Elma is our rep and she's the most likely so brace yourselves
Well, I hope you're wrong about that. Xenoblade has only 1 rep so I doubt people will clamor over-representation, especially with XC2's popularity.
 
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Well, I hope you're wrong about that. Xenoblade has only 1 rep so I doubt people will clamor over-representation, especially with XC2's popularity.
You underestimate how much the smash fanbase **** themselves whenever there is even a slightly anime looking character in

People were pissed about Bayonetta being too anime lmao
 

Condenir

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You underestimate how much the smash fanbase **** themselves whenever there is even a slightly anime looking character in

People were pissed about Bayonetta being too anime lmao
Literally the Bayonetta not being “worthy” dlc...like, she was an AMAZING pick idc what anyone says and I was so unreal hyped to get her...her games are amazing and people shouldn’t complain about her just because she’s broken.

(And whatever, she may not have “won” the ballet, but regardless, she would be in smash either way
 

Aeon_Shadow

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Ugh, just reading this thread: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77181603

It really does make me think Rex is a definite "when" not "if" in the future, whether it be at a 2nd Fighter's Pass or even Smash 6. Meanwhile the same cannot be said for Elma, and yeah I know I shouldn't directly compare them to one another but still the lack of fanfare X has is really unnerving to me.
 
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As far as this "season" (if even there are seasons) of the Fighters Pass is concerned at least, Rex is absolutely not a contender.
Sakurai was clear, Rex did not make the roster and they made the Mii costume so you could feel you were playing as him, otherwise the costume would be redundant. Kind of like the Chrom, K. Rool and Isabelle situations in SSB4 DLC

Maybe a second season if there's such a thing (I don't think there'll be), but now, no
 
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Kumashock

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I know this is 2 pages ago but things move fast ok...



Thing is that 'their' games could simply mean 'the games we want to sell on our console. Remember that the design of the Switch, especially from a software side was a VERY conscious step from Nintendo to draw in more third party support and to move themselves away from the library of just Nintendo produced games that the Wii U and 3DS became.

From Nintendo's standpoint, they're not making money from some kind of deal with the makers to advertise their game for them, they're very much still advertising the games that are coming to their console, that Nintendo will still profit off and are still very much part of Nintendo's library of games to sell. If Switch ports/editions of the games sell better then it's still a massive plus for Nintendo. Just look at the bigger directs of the year, or their current ad campaigns to see Fortnite, Minecraft and EA Sports take up significant air time.

Niot implying that those are the series that DLC characters will come from, but just pointing out that Nintendo as a company is now very much trying to be more than just a 'Nintendo only club'.
The quote from the president is about their IPs, not third party games. Yes, sure, I don't deny they promote some third party games, but what makes more financial sense for them -- to promote Xenoblade more as a franchise and improve the brand and its sales long-term or promoting franchises that may not be on their systems in the future? (we just had two Castlevania characters getting in and a PS4-only collection being announced)

I do think we'll get one or two third party characters as DLC, but having first party characters like Elma or Bandana Dee make a lot of financial sense that goes beyond promoting a single game or the 5.99$ that they get from a DLC sale, it's basically making more people aware of them and their franchises.
 
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Lol @ gameexplain talking about how Rex ia baaically a lock

Did we learn nothing from the "please don't expect too many newcomers" debacle? People never take Sakurai at his word and then they get disappointed.

Here's my case: the pool of characters that Nintendo made was probably made a while ago. If it was made this year I'd say Rex has a chance but it most likely wasn't since if it has third parties getting their licenses takes time, so it was probably given to Sakurai around 2016.
 

RawstyleEevee

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Ugh, just reading this thread: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77181603

It really does make me think Rex is a definite "when" not "if" in the future, whether it be at a 2nd Fighter's Pass or even Smash 6. Meanwhile the same cannot be said for Elma, and yeah I know I shouldn't directly compare them to one another but still the lack of fanfare X has is really unnerving to me.
If we are talking future Smash Bros games, I feel Rex & Pyra will be done and dusted and it could favour Elma more, because the next Smash is 6-8 years away, and most likely and hopefully by that time X2 happend. I would only worry if they make XB3 or 4 instead of X2 in that timeframe.
 

Calamitas

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The way that GameXPlain just completely ignored Elma and pretended that X didn't happen and doesn't have a place in Smash is honestly just a perfect summary of most Smash speculation regarding Xenoblade in general. Also just another reason why I dislike Rex even more in terms of Smash speculation.

If we are talking future Smash Bros games, I feel Rex & Pyra will be done and dusted and it could favour Elma more, because the next Smash is 6-8 years away, and most likely and hopefully by that time X2 happend. I would only worry if they make XB3 or 4 instead of X2 in that timeframe.
If I remember correctly, Takahashi did state that he tends to get bored of what he did last, so I doubt that a Xenoblade Chronicls 3 is going to happen before an X2.
 

RawstyleEevee

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The way that GameXPlain just completely ignored Elma and pretended that X didn't happen and doesn't have a place in Smash is honestly just a perfect summary of most Smash speculation regarding Xenoblade in general. Also just another reason why I dislike Rex even more in terms of Smash speculation.



If I remember correctly, Takahashi did state that he tends to get bored of what he did last, so I doubt that a Xenoblade Chronicls 3 is going to happen before an X2.
You are correct that he said that yeah, but it applies to all 3 Xenoblades, in that he wants the next Xenoblade to be different again.

https://www.destructoid.com/monolit...-might-go-down-a-different-path--525137.phtml
 
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