Electric Rat Matchup Thread (Currently discussing DK)

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#1
Matchup thread. Pikachu is the topic at the moment. Just hurl in things Pika can and should do against the character in question, whether it be a stage choice, particular lead-ins, any combos that work particularly well (as well as the standards), any tactics that might not work with others...

Not quite as complex as melee or brawl due to the mechanics of the game, but whatever.

Previously Discussed



Pika vs Fox
Pika vs Fox:
A difficult match for both players. Pikachu has a very easy time gimping Fox, while Fox can easily lead in to an U-Smash, meaning the Pikachu should aim to either edgeguard (priority 1) or get a combo (U-Air chain, etc) to knock them right out of the stage.

Moderate Advantage for Pika on Dreamland
Small Advantage for Pika on Congo and Peach's, probably Zebes too
Even Match (or thereabouts) for Pika on Hyrule, some say it's a small advantage to one side or the other

Stages
Good: Dreamland
Okay: Congo, Peach's, Zebes, Hyrule
Bad: None (Hyrule)

Pikachu will obviously prefer smaller stages (Congo and Dreamland) because of his edgeguarding prowess, especially against Fox, who he will essentially always edgeguard if he stands at the right place.

Strike/avoid Hyrule if possible, Fox easily outcamps any character on such a large stage and the **** tent is basically a free stock if either character gets a grab, which is bad if you're forced to approach. Do note that Pika's grab is exceptional against Fox, especially on Hyrule. Grabbing on the left side leads to a gimp, grabbing in the middle is either a techchase (low-ish percent) or forcing them towards the left hand side, and grabbing in the tent is just as, if not more lethal than Fox's grabs there. Grabbing on the far right leads to more gimps.

Approach
Pikachu should use his larger aerials to approach whilst avoiding lasers. Be very wary when you get close. Even if you have a fantastic combo chance, smacking them off the edge is often the best choice. Edgeguarding Fox is your best bet in securing an early lead. Throw towards the edge whenever possible. Some players may forgo camping and rush you for a zero-to-death, which is definitely possible once they hit you with one of his many moves, but Pikachu can easily use B-Air, U-Tilt and even well-spaced U-Smash/grabs to combat this.

Combos
U-Air chains are executed at moderate percentage. These involve using an U-Air to hit an enemy in the direction you are going, then following with more U-Airs (use your jump as you see fit) to continue the barrage. In this way, you can often U-Air Fox from the middle of the stage right to the blast lines, provided you end it with an N-Air/B-Air. You can end it with another aerial, but this is risky. U-Air chains work for both directions, no matter where Pika is facing.

U-Smash and U-Tilt will lead into U-Air chains, which will let you take Fox to the stage edges. Try not to prioritise building up percent to smash Fox to death, even though Pika's U-Smash makes this a very viable option. Instead, worry about his position relative to the edges. Sometimes low-trajectory hits such as U-Air or D-Tilt are more valuable as 'finishers' than hard-hitting moves, since you can abuse Fox's recovery more this way.

At 0%, Pika can techchase Fox a couple times with grabs, or U-Smashes if you're feeling lucky. If you do land an U-Smash you can often push Fox off the edge with U-Airs.

In the **** tent, Pika can chaingrab with U-Tilts thrown in. At a certain percentage, full hop N-Air/B-Air off the tent will bounce Fox off it whilst moving Pika onto the left edge, right in place for an U-Smash. If you're feeling lucky, a D-Tilt can be used for an extra bounce and a better chance at KOing good players, especially if they won't die immediately and can DI the Thunder. This should essentially be a guaranteed kill if done correctly.

Defense
Use Pikachu's high hitbox attacks (U-Tilt/U-Air) to keep the airspace above you under your control. Spacing with B-Air is a good idea. Don't approach Fox from above if you can help it, as Pika doesn't really have any huge downwards aerials, and all of them are beaten by U-Tilt, and some by U-Air (short-hopped or otherwise). Try not to spend ANY time in front of Fox when he is out of hitstun...Fox has too easy of a time killing Pikachu from low percents with simple combos such as Jab>U-Smash.

Recovery
Luckily, Fox hasn't a huge amount of stuff that can hassle Pika's recovery. Be wary of losing your second jump to lasers, and sweetspot if possible (Pika's landing lag isn't horrendous to be honest). Sweetspotting or landing far in the stage/on a higher platform are your options, and you should change it up depending on your opponent. If he stands right next to the edge, either risk sweetspotting or going in-stage. If he grabs the edge, go as far in as possible, etc.

It is overwhelmingly easy for Fox to run to where he predicts you'll land and B-Throw/F-Throw/D-Smash/U-Smash/insert move here. That's how fast he is. Hence, sweetspotting or going far instage are the best options.

Edgeguarding
Note that this is the ideal goal towards which you should be aiming.

If Fox is below the stage, a well-timed F-Smash will cover basically every option they have (straight up and angled into the stage). Edgehogging is a good option as well, but has to be gauged. Falling off and using N-Air is also very safe. D-Air can also be used, or B-Air/U-Air if you want a stage-spike on Dreamland/Hyrule (moderate percentages). If you are on Congo, ensure you hit them away from the stage, rather than under. There are many other options you can use, but F-Smash/fall-off N-Air or D-Air are probably the best options.

If Fox is high but close to the stage, then you can attempt to jump out and intercept him, but this is not really recommended because Fox is very maneuverable and can dodge you without effort if you guess his trajectory wrong. Rather, stay on the stage itself, and prepare yourself to react to him moving either towards you (punish with U-Tilt or aerial) or towards a higher platform (green house on Hyrule, platform on Dreamland: punish with a couple U-Airs or a B-Air/N-Air).

If Fox is falling towards the stage, chances are he will go for the edge, so cover that. Stand just next to the edge and threaten with a possible F-Smash to deter him from moving to an edge grab. Fox has only slight landing lag from Fire Fox, so be prepared to punish.


Pika vs Kirby
Pika vs Kirby:
Pika needs to aim for an edgeguard chance, because Kirby is incredibly vulnerable when he is recovering. U-Air chains are great for forcing them off. Again, other combos aren't discouraged, but finding a chance to edgeguard is definitely your first priority.

Small Advantage for Pika on all stages.

Stages:
Good: Dreamland, Congo
Okay: Hyrule, Peach's
Bad: None

Dreamland is generally best, as it is the best for gimping, though more cautious Pikachus can choose to go to another stage, as Kirby is also excellent at gimping. Kirby also has very efficient air camping on Dreamland, so you have to be proactive about preventing this.

Congo is beneficial to Pika, as Kirby's recovery is still very easy to edgeguard here and Pika is overall faster than Kirby, so he is a bit harder to edgeguard with all the options available to him.

Pikachu doesn't have any particularly dreadful stages on this matchup, as any stage strengths Kirby has aren't really enough to negate Pika's natural advantage.

Peach's Castle may also be one you would wish to avoid. Kirby is just very effective on Peach's, with plenty of platform options and easy edgeguards with D-Smash/D-Tilt on the moving platform. He isn't bothered a great deal by the bumper or side triangles, given he doesn't often KO off the top, and can garner gimp KOs easily. While Pikachu is hardly disadvantaged by the stage, any stage which offers benefits to your opponent isn't generally one you want to pick. Remember Pika has some pretty good stuff there too.

Approach
Do not rush headlong into Kirby with random dash-grabs or U-Smashes, as he is the best punisher in the game at low percents (and probably high percents as well). You hear that Kirby can sit there, spam U-Tilt mindlessly and still do okay. You have to either approach between U-Tilts or approach from the front. Since Kirby can just turn around, the first option must be practised. F-Smash clanks with U-Tilt, by the way, so don't get any silly ideas.

U-Air beats Kirby's options from basically every angle so long as it is used properly. This include U-Tilt, though keep in mind that U-Tilt is fast enough to be counted as a wall/constant hitbox, while U-Air needs to be timed.

B-Air is also an option, and will generally at least trade hits with Kirby's moves (it may outright beat them), but U-Air is generally better because it leads into other moves at a wider range of percentages.

It is safe to hit a Kirby in the air from above with (fastfall) U-Air/D-Air/N-Air because he has really, really poor hitboxes reaching above him. The only one of any note at all is Up-B, which no Kirby will be able to consistently use against a Pika without huge risk. It's really narrow anyway.

Combos
U-Air chains work at a lower percentage than they do on heavies/fastfallers. If you U-air as you near the ground, it leads into dash grabs, pivot grabs, U-Smash/pivot U-Tilt or even a pivot D-Smash (use to get edgeguarding opportunities, slightly stronger than F-Throw).

Any lead-ins to U-Tilt should be used, and followed up with an U-Air combo, B-Air or double jump Thunder (certain percentages only, and risky anyway). U-Air > dash pivot U-Tilt, F-Air > U-Tilt, aerial > U-Tilt, throw in the **** tent > U-Tilt are all possible options. Weak U-Smash can be substituted for U-Tilt, as it is weaker but leads into the same things (except Thunder). This should generally apply only if you miss the actual U-Smash.

Defense
The big threat here is U-Tilt, as getting hit instantly pushes your percentage up without reservation. Luckily, Pika can't be juggled extensively only with U-Tilt, but you still have to be careful.

Pika's own U-Tilt can often beat out Kirby's D-Air, but it has to be timed right. Immediately jump to the offensive if you land an U-Tilt.

Be very, very careful about being baited. Kirby's multiple jumps allow him to air camp you until you do an U-Tilt or jump up at him, which will allow him to drop in and D-Air/N-Air/something you. Wait it out until he lands, but if he is on a platform above you, be careful of jumping into D-Smash, U-Tilt or platform dropped aerials.

Even head-on, Kirby's N-Air and B-Air are substantial, are can even beat Pika's U-Air from the right angles. Hit them from below or above if possible.

Recovery
Kirby has big aerials that stay out for ages, and his F-Smash, D-Tilt and D-Smash on-stage are quite dangerous. That said, he is sort of slow and puffy, so as soon as you get past a Kirby who comes out to aerial you, you can retreat into the stage. If he edgehogs you, Kirby has no particularly quick way to get in-stage, so you should be okay. The focus is on avoiding those aerials.

Edgeguarding
If Kirby is low, wait and F-Smash or fall with an N-Air. Kirby won't recover low if he can help it, as these two options (or just one of the two) will shut him out very quickly. N-Air is recommended at low percents to stop Kirbies hugging the stage. This stops significant reverse ledge DI tricks. Otherwise, use F-Smash, because if he isn't hugging the stage, he can move very slightly and cause you to miss N-Air.

Most Kirbies recover high, because this is safer. If he is moderately high, you can often B-Air him. Be careful, as most Kirbies will use a jump and F-Air to maximise forward momentum. B-Air will beat it easily if spaced properly. U-Air beats it even without spacing, but it isn't as strong. If you miss your aerial, you might be able to try again with N-Air/U-Air. If Kirby somehow dodges you and gets past, aim to grab the ledge with Agility and refresh your edgehog if needed (if you're on the left edge you can use Agility again).

If Kirby is really, really high (I can't actually think of how this would happen aside from them going so far they brush the blast lines), then you can either let him return or risk using a Thunder. Thunder is incredibly punishable, especially if you jump off to use it, but is basically a KO if you land it.


Pika vs Falcon

Pika vs Falcon
Pika and Falcon both have stuff on each other, with really good combos on both sides. If Pika gets Falcon off the edge, then it can easily become the loss of a stock, while U-Tilt or U-Smash at a low-ish percentage can let Pika chain Falcon off the edge fairly quickly.

Moderate Advantage for Pika on all stages.

Stages
Good: Hyrule, Congo
Okay: Dreamland, Peach's
Bad: None (Dreamland)

It's commonly said that Dreamland is basically Pika's best stage. Falcon is a competitor though. While he is susceptible to gimping, his combos are made far easier and more diverse by the stage, and the platform layout lets him control the stage if he spaces properly. A smart Pika will still win here, but you must take full advantage of any grab, tilt or smash attack you land, and most importantly, attempt not to get grabbed or U-Smashed. This is slightly worse of a stage for Pika than Hyrule is - a better way to say it would be that Falcon is better on Dreamland than Hyrule.

Hyrule is arguably a better stage to pick, mostly because Falcon has fewer combos there (definitely not none, and he can still take you from 0% to 90% without any real hassle). Pika, has plenty more stuff to do there - tent combos, grab techchasing in the middle and way more breathing room. Gimping in general is a little harder due to more significant potential for DI and the size of the stage, but that's the price you pay for toning down Falcon's 0-death potential. Pika's Up-B escape mechanism is better here.

Peach's Castle is intriguing. Falcon maintains his U-Air > Up-B combos, only he has to do a lot more platform dropping to get them effectively. Pika's U-Air chains are hurt by the triangles, which interrupt them. On the other hand, Falcon will basically never recover if you do it right. He has to land on a platform, so you can stand on the grey moving platform and punish him wherever he goes. Sometimes he will be unable to do anything at all. Conversely, Falcon standing on the moving platform won't be able to do much if you recover right past him and onto the little lower central platform. Note that you can still do U-Air combos.

Approach
Pika's U-Air is once again overwhelming here, as a well-timed U-Air beats every aerial and most defences Falcon has. A pivot or U-Smash can get through, so be wary. Whiffing something like U-Smash can easily let you get punished in the spacing war, so only take those opportunities if you get an aerial or something first.

You'll basically be approaching with aerials, or if you read his spacing pattern, dash grabs/U-Smashes. Space aerials so you hit him while he's in the air or after he used an aerial. If he misses one of his own attacks you can punish with a U-Tilt, U-Smash or throw.

Falcon's best fishing move is B-Air, as it is large and very rarely clanks. If he spams it, it can get rather easy to dodge, but hitting you with it makes you take a fair bit of damage and, if he uses it going into the ground, leads into a dash grab. Be wary of this move.

Combos
U-Smash and U-Tilt lead into U-Air chains. Not much to say here, Falcon is easily juggled by U-Tilt. U-Tilt also leads into throws or D-Tilt.

U-Smash > U-Air chains at 40-50%
U-Air chains in general at 60-90%
U-Air > B-Air at high percent.

Note that U-Smash does not lead into other U-Smashes at 0%, and you'll have to techchase a grab/U-Smash.

Pika in the tent is very effective. Grabs at low percent lead into more grabs. At mid percent if becomes U-Tilt > Grab or full hop double U-Air. Eventually, full hop N-Air/B-Air him off the green side and land to U-Smash him.

Defence
The main thing you have to look out for is an U-Smash. The other thing is a grab from a dashdance or something. It's just that dangerous, especially on Dreamland or Congo. Shielding or rolling needlessly and teching predictably is incredibly punishable.

Poorly executed combos can be escaped with Up-B. Attempt to move somewhere Falcon cannot punish you. This is easier on Hyrule than Dreamland.

Don't shield on a platform, because Falcon can barrage you with B-Airs and U-Airs, which is very strong pressure. Be ready to do a reflex aerial if Falcon B-Airs to the point where your shielded self slips off an edge.

Falcon's D-Air is beaten by U-Tilt, which means everything else is as well. It will at the very least force a tech if it hits, and might let you B-Air him for some edgeguarding. Control the air above you with U-Tilt and U-Air to deter reckless charges.

Recovering
Falcon is a fairly efficient edgeguarder, though it is very possible to get around him. He has definite solutions for any of your attempts to recover (barring a ledge cancel), but not all at once. Mixing it up is key to recovery.

Sweetspotting is sometimes a good idea, but be warned that Falcon can often edgeguard efficiently if he is there as you recover. The biggest threats are D-Tilt, D-Air and reverse U-Air, all of which will force you a fair distance from the edge or outright kill you.

The other aforementioned option is landing on the stage. It's both safer and more dangerous: if they decide to commit to either D-Air or U-Air off stage in anticipation of sweetspotting, you have safe passage to land on the stage. On the other hand, a good Falcon will often let you go in-stage so they can punish with an U-Smash, U-Air > Up-B or B-Throw. This applies to landing on the high platforms in Dreamland and Congo as well as the green house in Hyrule.

Falcon Kick is Falcon's fastest method of reaching you offstage, and he can hit you while you're a good distance from the stage. Be wary of this. The risk, however, is overwhelmingly high for Falcon: if you make it back he won't be doing the same.

Edgeguarding
A Falcon recovering high is punished with either U-Air or B-Air. There isn't much to say, except don't get too close to him, as his Up-B sometimes likes to gay you out and teleport a bit.

A Falcon aiming to sweetspot can be stopped with F-Smash, D-Tilt, F-Tilt or any number of moves. Be careful of his Up-B. F-Smash will generally provoke ledge-DI, so be ready for that. Falling off with an aerial isn't really recommended, as Falcon can often stage-spike you with his Up-B, even if you're careful.


Pika vs Mario

Pika vs Mario
Pika has a solid advantage in this matchup, as he simply has a range advantage over Mario, and is undaunted by fireballs. He is one of only a few characters to have a truly solid edgeguard against Mario, and Mario is quite easily comboed by Pika's most prominent moves. That being said, Mario has plenty of tricks up his sleeve that can cut Pika down to size if he can get in on the rat, so be wary.

Moderate Advantage for Pika on all stages.

Stages
Good: Dreamland, Congo, Peach's
Okay: Hyrule
Bad: None (Hyrule)

Pikachu has a few factors to consider when selecting a stage. On Dreamland, he has much easier access to U-Air chains, while Mario has opportunities to do his own U-Air combos. On Hyrule, Mario doesn't have these opportunities, but can sort of camp and do nonsense in the tent. It is slightly harder to get early gimps if Mario is good at positioning himself. Kongo is similar to Dreamland, only edgeguarding is slightly harder, as are Mario's U-Air combos.

Peach's essentially makes recovering unsafe for Mario if he has to land on the moving platform, giving Pika an edgeguard advantage. Pika's U-Air is good for maintaining platform control there., as is U-Tilt.

Approach
You basically have to approach, given Mario has good camping ability, but this isn't really an issue. All of your aerials beat his fireballs, and some beat his baiting punishers.

Pikachu can use U-Air for a very safe approach, as it beats out a number of notable things, including fireballs, D-Smash and U-Air (from the correct angle). It leads into U-Smash or U-Tilt, as well as dash-grabs. B-Air is also relatively safe and leads to U-Smash or grabs, but the startup can be punished if not used correctly. It leads to U-Tilt at low percents, but that isn't very attractive, given that low percent U-Tilts aren't too effective. Other aerials can also work, but are generally not as effective.

A huge danger is Mario's U-Smash, which is very powerful, enormous in size and quite fast to come out. Recklessly approaching with aerials can easily be punished with an off-the-top kill. U-Air and B-Air can beat if the very edges of the hitbox is used, but the rest of his aerials can't do much. If you can bait it out, it can easily be punished with things like U-Air/B-Air > U-Smash or a throw. Mario's D-Smash is similarly fast and has better utility, but can also be punished in similar ways - just be careful of the reverse hitbox that lingers after he misses the forwards hit.

If the Mario tries to shoot fireball screens at you, you can often run under and punish. Do this carefully, as getting hit by a D-Air can be dangerous.

Combos
U-Smash and U-Tilt lead to U-Air chains. Mario's weight is interesting and lets him escape many characters' combos early, but Pikachu finds him very easy to combo.

U-Smash > U-Smash at 0%
U-Tilt combos into itself at 40-60%
U-Air chains at 40-75%

U-Tilt starts U-Air chains and is generally quite easy to land through baiting or using certain aerials. It's incredibly efficient in the tent, where it covers about a third of the tent's space by itself.

U-Smash is harder to land but arguably more rewarding. It offers the opportunity to land shorter combos on Mario earlier - U-Air > B-Air sets up edgeguarding, for instance. B-Air, N-Air and U-Air reliably lead into U-Smash (dash). F-Air can if it is spaced well, or if it is not Z-cancelled for a techchase at moderate percentages.

Defence
U-Air and U-Tilt are excellent tools for maintaining decent space around you for the simply fact that they beat out Mario's aerials/fireballs and aerial approaches respectively. B-Air does the same with a larger forward hitbox, but the startup is punishable and U-Air offers more opportunities to follow-up anyway.

If you're being comboed, Up-B is a very good way to escape, so long as you react to Up-B activating. As long as you can DI away from the D-Airs Mario will inevitably throw at you, you should be able to get some space. It's sometimes better to get away than to attempt and punish.

Do not jab fireballs, either jump around them or U-Air/N-Air them. Pika has one of the worst jabs in the game, and unless you can manage a jab-grab (more for cancelling than for actually grabbing), it is an enormously punishable move.

Recovery
Mario will edgeguard with fireballs, aerials and smashes. Aiming for the edge is not really a good idea, as D-Smash is very effective at covering the edge. If you can get there before he reaches the edge, that's fine. Recovering in-stage is good if you are close to the stage. Finishing with a horizontal direction is good, as Mario can't catch up to Pika's extended Agility.

There isn't much you can do about his attempted smashes. Do note that U-Smash and D-Smash have different hitboxes, so using Agility to edge over Mario and get in-stage is a passable strategy to dodge the latter, seeing as D-Smash is used far more often. All of Mario's smashes have some ending lag, and if you can get past them, you can get into the stage quite easily.

If one of these hits you, don't panic. You can sometimes recover into a fireball so you gain more options.

Mario will generally use D-Air or N-Air. If he uses any others, you should be able to get past (F-Air/B-Air) or descend from a height/use Agility once more (U-Air). It is possible to recover into a D-Air, DI away and agility again, though this is not really recommended, seeing as Mario's repeated D-Airs will definitely kill you if you aren't careful.

Edgeguarding
F-Smash is recommended above all else. Ignore fireball screens and wait to F-Smash. Repeated F-Smashes will kill Marios who do not ledge DI. If he is at moderate percentages, ledge DI may allow him to crash into the corner and rebound into the stage, so be ready to pursue and hopefully do something. Do note that each F-Smash is another 18/20 damage tacked on, so even if he ledge DI's into the stage, you gain a decent advantage.

If Mario really is hugging the wall for the above purpose, a falling N-Air or a rebound B-Air can be used.

If Mario decides to use Mario Tornado near the stage, jump off and hit him. The same goes for a low double jump: he cannot reliably do anything to hurt you if you descend with a N-Air besides using U-Air or Up-B, both of which will prevent his recovery and hit you upwards.




Currently Discussing

Pika vs Yoshi

Pika vs Yoshi
A fairly good matchup for Pika, but it is not guaranteed. Good Yoshis can combo Pika for a decent amount of damage, and he can safely beat out a number of Pika's approaches. Pika has safe, standard combos from a number of moves, and can take advantage of many of Yoshi's laggier moves incredibly well.

Moderate Advantage for Pika on all stages.

Stages
While the advantage remains at about the same level between stages, the advantage is given for different reasons.

Good: Dreamland, Congo
Okay: Hyrule, Peach's
Bad: None (Peach's)

On Dreamland and Congo, Pika's enhanced gimping is hindered heavily by Yoshi's resistance to gimping, but he has an easier time taking Yoshi to blast lines with U-Air combos. Yoshi is arguably better on Dreamland, but so is Pika.

On Hyrule he has a variety of combos, notably tent combos, but the platforms in the middle are beneficial to Yoshi. Yoshi also has his own tent shenanigans.

Essentially, choose the stage you feel comfortable on.

Approach
If Yoshi were a normal character, one would recommend U-Air and B-Air to set up throws or U-Smash. As it stands, the threat of parrying (and crouch cancelling) force Pika to play defensive on the approach - this means that you have to space your aerials so you have no issue retreating from Yoshi's responses, the fastest of which are DJC N-Air and D-Smash. The other option is to use late F-Airs to bypass the parry outright, then chase up DI/don't Z-cancel and techchase.

If approaching an aggressive, Yoshi, the problem of DJCC comes up. Of Pika's aerials, only B-Air can outright shatter Yoshi's superarmour respectably early. The other possibility is to use F-Air as a mixup to beat the moment of superarmour that comes with DJCC.

At higher percents, B-Air breaks DJCC, so you may choose to use that if you wish. Do be warned that knocking Yoshi out of his second jump has only inconsequential knockback, so you have to be careful.

Combos
U-Tilt chains easily and can continue to chain past 50%. This should be forgone for the sake of U-Air combos, or U-Smash > Thunder on a low-ceiling stage. On that note, U-Air chains are applicable on Yoshi, as they are on heavies in general.

Defence
U-Tilt breaks Yoshi's non-B-Air approaches, and sometimes beats out high-ish B-Airs, but you have to know the timing window for his DJC to really have confidence in U-Tilt breaking it. This does not make U-Tilt camping a viable strategy, because Yoshi can easily DJCC your U-Tilts and go from there.

B-Air breaks Yoshi's B-Air if it comes out at the same time and is spaced right. U-Tilt can beat it if Pika remains a suitable distance away.

DJCC and parries can be beaten reliably by F-Air, which can lead to grabs, U-Smash, etc if Z-cancelled, and a techchase if not.

Eggs are broken by U-Tilt, D-Smash, F-Smash, B-Air, N-Air and D-Air, among other moves.

Recovery
Yoshi's edgeguards against Pika will generally consist of aerials, particularly N-Air or D-Air, both of which have enough duration to pose a real danger to a recovering rat. Going straight past Yoshi's general range (including jumping, etc) is often possible and generally advisable. You should be able to adapt, as Yoshi cannot cover many options at any given time.

Sweetspotting is a decent idea if Yoshi is at high percent, as all of Yoshi's runoff edgeguards with aerials are relatively dangerous to Yoshi, given he is vulnerable to B-Airs and the like when recovering.

None of Yoshi's smashes are truly reliable edgeguards, so it is usually safe to assume the opponent will not be using them. This does not mean you can zip past Yoshi without trouble - N-Air is an issue and B-Air and F-Air are significant dangers.

Edgeguarding
Yoshi is essentially immune to most gimps. This is fairly difficult to circumvent - grabs can work, but doing so at low percents lets Yoshi get moderately high and thus away from your grabs. There are ways to edgeguard him, though.

Using Thunder 2 (letting the Thunder hit you) will interrupt his jump at approximately 70% onwards, but this only momentarily phases him, and Yoshi can generally grab the edge ever after being hit. B-Air will start breaking his superarmour at about 100% and is recommended for off-edge edgeguarding. D-Air serves a similar purpose.

At low percents, using F-Air as a mixup can often catch a Yoshi offguard, as the constant attack frames spoil any chance of DJCC, and may lead into a N-Air or similar move, resulting in Yoshi's death.

If Yoshi expends his jump and is coming towards the edge, F-Smash will finish him. Jabs, etc can be used if you fear ledge DI.


Pika vs Donkey Kong

Pika vs Donkey Kong
A deceptive matchup. While one might think Pika dominates DK due to his large size and lack of reliable combos, DK is a surprisingly rough matchup if played incorrectly. With an incredible escape tool, huge grab range and consistent environment-based combos, DK is not an enemy to be taken lightly, even if he is relatively easy to combo and edgeguard.

Moderate Advantage for Pika on all stages.

Stages

Approach

Combos

Defence

Recovery

Edgeguarding



Pika vs Ness

Pika vs Ness
This matchup is tipped significantly in Pika's favour. So long as Ness is off the stage and Pika is careful, Ness should not recover. This is in no way a guaranteed matchup, given Ness does have ways to abuse some of Pika's weaknesses and stack damage fairly quickly with prediction and patience. On the other hand, Ness has very few guaranteed combos on Pika, and must rely a lot of techchasing, apart from the occasional F-Air chain at specific percents and basic U-Tilt>U-Air 3~ hit combos.

Significant Advantage (70:30) for Pika on Dreamland, Congo.
Moderate-High Advantage (65:35) for Pika on all Hyrule.
Moderate Advantage (60:40) for Pika on Peach's.

Stages
On Dreamland, Pika's gimping prowess and simple U-Air chains show their prowess, punishing Ness very easily. Ness should very rarely recover. Pika has a number of options open to him when recovering and approaching. The possible problem with this stage is the platforms, which facilitate simple D-Air techchases for Ness. Ness can do F-Air chains occasionally on the flat platform.

Congo is similar to Dreamland, except both characters have far greater options for recovery. Taking that aside, Pika still has an overall advantage in terms of raw potential and predictability with recovery.

Hyrule lends itself to tent combos and allows Pika to camp Ness quite easily. Both characters have a few more options with their recovery, though that doesn't really make Ness's recovery better to the point of nullifying it as a weakness. The middle platforms are again an issue, allowing Ness easy techchases.

Peach's is interesting, in that there is far less emphasis on left-right approach, which Ness has issues with. Instead, the focus on platform play and the importance of up-down approach is greater, which is good when Ness's U-Tilt, U-Air and D-Air are taken into account. Even with this particular advantage, Pika's aerials and moves still have great range, not to mention Pika is able to edgeguard Ness 100% of the time, even without any real commitment - the stage itself forces only a few meagre options for Ness.

Approach

Combos

Defence

Recovery

Edgeguarding




Feel free to post any views, tips or stuff about a matchup you want to talk about, I'll just section it off for future reference.

Filler template

Pika vs Mario

Pika vs Mario

Stages

Approach

Combos

Defence

Recovery

Edgeguarding

 
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#2
Pika vs Fox:

Overall - A very hard match for both players. Pikachu has a very easy time gimping fox, while fox has a very easy till Usmashing pika to death, making this a kill fest at low percents.

Stages:

Pikachu will obviously prefer smaller stages (Congo and Dreamland) due to the relative ease of throwing someone off the edge to edge guarding them. (with either a combo or a grab)


Approach:

Pikachu has to slowly advance with Bairs/Uairs, avoiding lasers will make this hard. It's strongly advised that while comboing...be willing to sacrifice some damage if you can effectively push them off the edge instead. Edge guarding fox will be your best bet to secure an easy and early lead. Throw when you can and always throw in the direction that will send the foe further off the edge. Due to Foxs speed most players will simply rush you to death, as pikachu though if you can space Dair well enough to pressure these kinds of foxs, it can turn the speed of the game around while keeping you for being kicked around my foxs aerials


Combos:

Usmash/Utilt will lead into Uair chains, which lead to the edges of the stage...which is exactly where you want fox to be. Dont worry about building up enough percent to smash fox to death, worry about his position relative to the edges. If you can sacrifice a hit the sends your foe vertical for one that sends them more horizontal (even better if its a low angle) do it.

Defense:

Use Pikachus high hit box attacks (Utilt/Uair) to keep the air space above you under your control, as well as moving redundantly to keep your foe guessing. Try not to spend ANY time in front of fox when he is out of hit stun...fox has to easy of a time killing pikachu at low percents with simple combos such as Jab-->Usmash.
 
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#3
Pika vs Kirby - If Kirby is in the air approach from above with dair because Kirby's uair doesn't have a good hitbox.

Kirby's bair/nair have good priority so don't try to trade directly with these.

Don't get hit by utilts (duh). Approach from the front of Kirby or time an approach between utilts.

Don't usmash after an approach unless you are sure it will work to start a combo.

Don't try to randomly utilt/usmash kirby when he is in the air because he can float in the air and bait it then dair you.

If you hit an utilt then start an uair chain
 

Surri-Sama

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#4
Pika vs Kirby - If Kirby is in the air approach from above with dair because Kirby's uair doesn't have a good hitbox.
Keeping above kirby is definitely the right idea, but i think using pikas Uair would be better then Dair in these situations mostly because of how easy it is to combo with Uair, plus its hit box is far better then Dair so if kirby tries his better hit box attacks like Bair or Nair, you'll still have the advantage if you space it right.


This is Pikas Uair while he is facing west


This frame covers the above area and slightly to the front deflecting mostly every attack in the game due to its awkward angle and huge hit box.



This frame shows how far forward piks Uair actually goes. As well as how high north it reaches as well, again showing how big this attacks hit box really is



this is the last frame of the attack with a hit box (at least im pretty sure lol...) either way it not only covers pikachu's full front area but also extends pretty far south.


Point being this attack needs to be abused because it is very quick for having such a big hit box and it obviously combos well.
 

dandan

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#5
Don't usmash after an approach unless you are sure it will work to start a combo.
That is true always with pika.
I have a lot to say on these matchups, but I do not have much time these days (test season) will try to do so when it ends in 2-3 weeks.
 

SuPeRbOoM

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#6
Pika vs Kirby.

This matchup Pikachu should have the advantage once he knows the matchup, like 60:40 for pika. In this matchup your goal should be getting Kirby off the stage for an easy edgeguard.

Pika uair will beat any approach kirby has to offer, so abuse this as much as you can. Uair is good with dealing with Kirby's bair/uptilt wall setup, keep in mind that kirby's bair is a constant hitbox while pika's uair takes good spacing to beat it. Full jump ff uair I heard is good vs Kirby too, haven't really experimented with it much though. Uair to backthrow is a good simple combo to get Kirby off the stage.

Pika bair is a good trade move. But really, pika uair will always be a better setup move and just be better in general.

If Kirby is air camping you; you have two options: Either wait on the ground until Kirby decides to land on the ground/runs out of jumps or jump up and hit him(risky). You have to be pretty alert for this because most kirby players will try to ff psyche you out with his jumps to bait your incoming attack.

Ok, edgeguarding. Kirby has a hard time getting back on stage vs Pika mainly because pika can risk going off stage to punish his recovery. Bair is VERY useful here and should be used wisely. For most Kirby players I have played against, they will either recover high normally or recover high and dip low for a low recover if you whiff the bair. Not much else I can say here, just bair them lol.

I don't combo well as pika so I can't really give much advice for the combo department.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT54QuMsVco

^this has some glaring flaws because of isai :(

edit: oh yeah upb out of shield pressure
 
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#7
The other things that need comments are Recovery and any Miscellaneous things that you might know and have relevance, like how Pika F-Smash clanks with U-Tilt.

Also, if you want to offer alternative options to the 'optimal' (eg. edgeguard with Pika F-Tilt/D-Smash over F-Smash), please do so. They will be noted as inferior options, but we want as complete a guide as possible.
 

dandan

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#8
don't dsmash. i personally dislike fsmashing, i thinkg just gimping will get the kill more of the times (especially because fsmash has a huge hit lag to input your di, and as it is done close to the edges, can be quite easy to reverse ledge di).
ever since i started gimping instead of fsmashing, opponents usually do not get back on stage when i play them (though getting them off stage is a different matter all together).
 

Surri-Sama

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#9
I would have to say use Fsmash less...dont cut it out

It has a huge disjointed hitbox which does help when chars are coming from slightly above, as well as when they are trying to hit you with an attack while recovering.

Pikas Fsmash is overrated but not pointless
 
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#10
F-Smash is an insta-kill in most situations at high-ish percents, and almost impossible to miss, so it's good then. It's also workable at low percents if the opponent doesn't hug the stage or is recovering to the Congo/Peach's ledges (hence no DI). If there is a wall to hug, stage spiking or rebounding them with B-Air/N-Air is probably better. Repeatedly hitting with aerials works well too, but Pika has nothing along the lines of spiking.

I would never say it's bad or pointless, as it's Pikachu's easiest edgeguarding attack and has a great hitbox, but it isn't the 5 second bob-omb move some nubs make it out to be, especially with ledge DI in the equation. I guess you're right in saying it's a tad overrated.

Also dandan I didn't mean Pika F-Smash was his end-all edgeguard, I meant it as an example: it's superior to other ground moves in edgeguarding, though other ground moves are usable.
 

SheerMadness

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#12
Can't comment on Pika vs Kirby since I play neither.

Fox vs Pika has seemingly been pretty good for me lately (fox). And I almost exclusively take them to Dreamland.

You can laser the hell out of them and make it really hard for them to approach. You can space really well vs them too with f-tilts and down tilts. Pressure their shields with jab and shine. Obviously just don't get grabbed. Fox does have the tools to not get grabbed.

Or maybe I just haven't played any really good Pikachu's lately.
 
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#13
I have some sort of mental block for Pika vs. Fox that I can't seem to overcome. Boomfan said it all for Pika vs Kirby.

Yeah.
 
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#14
If there are any matchups you really want to discuss, just mention the matchup, whose perspective it's from, and write up everything you want to say. I'll get around to putting it in the OP.

I will be paraphrasing, so don't worry too much about grammar, etc.
 

dandan

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#16
The only stage I feel might be bad for that matchup (from the legal stages) is peach's castle, as kirby is just sensational on that stage. I do not think he has an advantage on congo just because of recovering through the stage. I believe that usually, if you are down there, against someone decent, you won't recover. pika can just dair, usmash, dtilt and so on while recovering, as kirby cannot move that much horizontally. of course it gives you more options than say dreamland, but I think these options are not really viable.
Moreover, I think that it is easier to combo kirby on congo with the heightened platforms.
Usually when you want to uair chain kirby, you can mess up and have him land on the platform in dreamland if you hit the uair too early. However, that situation will not arise on congo.
 
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#17
Pikachu is great on Peach's castle as well. Pretty much the only character who can recover well on that stage, and the gimp factor helps Pikachu as well. Often in tournaments Drunk E Ness counterpicks me to Peach's castle with his Kirby and I always go Pikachu.
 
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#19
The only stage I feel might be bad for that matchup (from the legal stages) is peach's castle, as kirby is just sensational on that stage.
Why?

I have virtually no experience on that stage, but Peach's Castle doesn't strike me as that much better for Kirby than for Pika.
 

s2j

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#20
for Pikachu vs. Kirby, I would say to avoid Congo Jungle, I feel the bottom platform aids in Kirby's recovery.
i completely disagree

pikachu has the tools to **** kirby coming up through the bottom in 99% of situations
 

dandan

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#21
Why?

I have virtually no experience on that stage, but Peach's Castle doesn't strike me as that much better for Kirby than for Pika.
this is just my gut reaction, but i am like you, i should not have said that because of my lack of experience on that stage.

i feel like it would be more difficult for pika to get his uair chains working on that stage, as you cannot really do them on the bottom, and on the top, i think the obstacles at the side might interfere.
 
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#22
Just based on personal experience, I think the match-up on Peach's Castle is slightly closer (i.e. better for Kirby and worse for Pikachu) than on other stages, but I'm not sure if Kirby actually has an advantage there.

Congo Jungle is definitely good for Pika. It's a terrible stage for Kirby's recovery.
 

s2j

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#23
i think pika vs fox favors pika slightly because almost no matter where pika gets a grab pika should get a kill

left side = gimp

right side= tent combos

middle= pikachu can literally tech chase off of f-throw. Because grabs are literally 5 frames long (i dunno exact) you can literally grab where they might tech in place and react if they don't tech in place

fox's killing potential is slightly less imo although laser camping is a factor that favors fox, pika can also camp back/duck not perfect lasers

dreamland: grab anywhere, throw run off n-air gimp

overall, pika's advantage, i can't see it being even.

kongo favors pika over kirby a lot. The top plats, barrel, go-through bottom level help his recovery immensely since kirby's speed is much slower than pikas overall, making it difficult to edgeguard, while kirby's recovery still sux

overall, pika > kirby almost no doubt about it, kirby is easily edgeguarded and easy to 0 to death, kirby needs to be close to an edge to 0 to death(up-tilt up-tilt.. (weak) up-tilt reverse b-air d-air)
 
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#26
I would put Pika-Fox at 50/50 on Hyrule, 65/35 on Dreamland, then 60/40 in his favour everywhere else.

Pika-Kirby seems to be between 60 and 65 in Pika's favour everywhere.

Read OP and make corrections/suggestions, matchups will probably move to Pika-Falcon and Pika-Mario soon.
 
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#27
I don't think Pika - Kirby is anywhere near 65-35. I'd put it as 55-45 on all stages.

Pika-Fox is like 60-40 on DL and CJ, but only for really good players. It's 65-35 if not.

Basically, Pika gimps Fox a thousand times better than Kirby. Fox approaches more easily than Kirby does, but Kirby also has easier combos with utilts. In order to combo, Fox has to risk using utilt or dtilt after an approach, and messing up either of these moves will let Pika grab and gimp.

For stages, Fox is worse on Peach's Castle than on Dreamland, so I'd say Pika > Fox by a bigger margin there. I always go Pikachu on Peach's during tournaments.

Kirby doesn't need to 0-death Pika, he can just rack up damage with utilts and get kills with aerials or maybe fsmash.
 
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#28
Pika vs Kirby is at least 60-40 on any stage. Pika's uair beats nearly everything Kirby has. He can potentially get huge combos with his uair chains or low percent kills from edgeguards, while Kirby can only get like a 50% combo at low percents, and edgeguarding Pikachu is ridiculously hard in general.

Maybe I'm just demoralized from playing Boomfan's Pika, but still.
 
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#29
If Pika Kirby is 60-40, then what is an actual bad matchup? Pika Fox is then like 70-30 (on DL/CJ), and Pika Samus gotta be like 90-10.

Ok seriously though, I think Kirby > Fox when it comes to fighting Pika on DL/CJ.

I think people are going to underrate Kirby's matchups because of the noob factor that comes along with playing Kirby. Most Kirbys that people face are not very good. I know that I beat most Kirbys that I play with Falcon, but that's a matchup that is in Kirby's favor.
 

King Funk

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#31
I agree with Ballin. I think we shouldn't exagerate too much with matchup ratios or else we'll get to extremes with the more lopsided matchups in the game.

I think we should set a maximum should be 75-25 because I can't really think of any matchup in the game which is more inbalanced than that.
 

Marc

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#32
Ratios are kind of a wonky system anyway. The way people end up using them is as a 21-tiered system in 5-point increments and there's no underlying science really. For the BBR we went with a scale ranging from -4 to +4, which is essentially 9 tiers covering all basic matchup definitions. Of course you can go with more or less, but the idea is to actively think about a system. I've noticed several character boards for at least Brawl as well as the people doing a Melee MU chart are also steering away from it.
 
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#33
I don't think people will be underrating Kirby too much.

I do agree that skewed matchup ratios are to be avoided, given that there are no matchups like Sheik-Pichu in Melee or DDD-Bowser (if no-holds-barred, essentially 99-1) in Brawl.

I don't think Pika-Kirby is 60:40 every stage...probably 60:40 Hyrule and 55:45 for Dreamland/Congo/Peach's.

If anyone would like to put forward a decent system, fine by me.

Orochimaru is an ***.
 

King Funk

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#35
I would say to input:
-- worse than 40-60 or heavy disadvantage
- 40-60 or disadvantage
-= 45-55 or slight disadvantage
= 50-50 or even
+= 55-45 or slight advantage
+ 60-40 or advantage
++ better than 60-40 or heavy advantage
This is fine. And I really believe that overall Pikachu 55-45 Kirby on all stages.
Same vs Fox, but on specific stages like Dreamland and Kongo, it's 60-40.
 

dandan

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#37
i would even dare say fox has an advantage (considering the camping possible on a theoretical level).
but even if has one, it is very very slight.
 
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#38
Where are you going to camp? The tent area is very good for Pikachu as well (actually, I would even say Pika has the advantage in comboing there against Fox). Do you mean running away with lasers the whole time?
 

dandan

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#39
theoretically yes, that is what i mean, i think pika will have a hard time cutting fox off, even though pika is quite quick.
 
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#40
I'm just labelling it as 50-50 for the sake of convenience. There are probably slight pushes to either direction (I think it's slightly in Pika's favour just because of edge play), but it's pretty close anyway.
 
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