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Egg Lay discussion and uses

Danky

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
6
Hello!

I wanted to get a discussion going on Yoshi's neutral B move: Egg Lay. This is a move that I feel is both useful and underutilized, and I was hoping that we could pool some ideas together for how to make use of it.

So here's the move "on paper". It's a fast, long-range command grab (works on shield) that pops your opponent into an egg, which they'll need to mash out of to escape. Upon mash-out, receive a small amount of invincibility. They're also able to control their drift in-egg, all of which makes direct follow-ups difficult. I think this is one of the main reason this move isn't used as often as it could be, but I believe we should look at the move with a different perspective.

So first let's discuss Egg Lay in neutral.

Egg lay can be used in conjunction with egg throw and down tilt for an excellent walling game. Egg throw covers medium/long range, down-tilt covers close range and pushes opponents far enough to throw another egg (which sets up for grab or egg lay of they shield). Egg lay is a great tool for covering shielding (or not lol) opponents trying to break through your egg throw/down tilt wall. The range on Yoshi's tongue is insane, but it can go even further if you do a DJC turnaround egg lay (jump back, jump the other way, immediately egg lay). This is really useful when you're playing against a careful, defensive opponent like samus.

Okay, so you landed an egg lay, now what? There's no conversion, right?

Sort of. The thing is, you don't want to go for a followup after egg lay. If you run back and reestablish your positioning, you've essentially reset neutral, but you have a second or two head start. Toss a high egg, wait for their reaction (usually some kind of aerial if they're mashing), and punish, OR reestablish your wall of egg throw/down tilt/egg lay.

This also has the factor of really getting on your opponent's nerves, as something that seems so harmless keeps putting them in a disadvantageous position.

So let's get some discussion going! Here's a basic summary list of egg lay uses:

-quick, long-range command grab
-resets neutral in your advantage
-creates a defensive wall when used with down tilt and egg throw
-generally useful spacing/zoning tool
-if your opponent is shielding on a platform above you, run forward, short hop, b-reverse egg lay will catch them
-annoy/troll your opponent
-grounded b-reverse egg lay is the equivalent to pivot grab

I'd love to hear some more ideas for how to use this amazing move!

Edit: just to clarify, I'm not suggesting basing your play style around this or anything, but I definitely think it's valid as mixup.
 
Last edited:

twolf59

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4
Location
Davis, California
Ive found that its quite useful in a knockdown situation. Example: youve knocked your opponent on there back. theyre waiting for your approach so they can react. Empty hop near them (but at egg lay distance) so they think youre going for an aerial, they will usually get up attack or roll towards you, egg lay!
 

didds

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
1,009
Location
in a tree
My main uses are covering my landings and almost like a fox laser, if you catch them with egg lay enough then they'll be forced to approach and we have a great bait and punish game
 

Limbose

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
88
Location
Dallas, Texas
3DS FC
0748-3141-7837
Ive found that its quite useful in a knockdown situation. Example: youve knocked your opponent on there back. theyre waiting for your approach so they can react. Empty hop near them (but at egg lay distance) so they think youre going for an aerial, they will usually get up attack or roll towards you, egg lay!
Let's think here.
Egg Lay: 7% and a bit of positioning.
Literally almost anything else: Combos and/or kill.

Egg lay shouldn't be used for punishing. It should be used for stopping approaches when in odd positions or for mixups. It's honestly one of the worst punishes you can use since it does 7% and has no guaranteed combo potential unless the opponent is garbage. Something you can do is wait for the pop out and see what they do. Lots of people immediately attack out of it since that's usually fairly safe, so you can wait for the attack to be over or outspace it with an u-air and free combo to kill.

So first let's discuss Egg Lay in neutral.

Egg lay can be used in conjunction with egg throw and down tilt for an excellent walling game. Egg throw covers medium/long range, down-tilt covers close range and pushes opponents far enough to throw another egg (which sets up for grab or egg lay of they shield). Egg lay is a great tool for covering shielding (or not lol) opponents trying to break through your egg throw/down tilt wall.
So they're on the ground where you could get a tech-chase grab or down smash for fsmash or another dtilt and you throw an egg at them? They roll away from the egg, boom, string finished, back to neutral, you just lost the chance for a stock or more dtilts. Eggs shouldn't be used to techchase. That's honestly extremely silly and in reality will very rarely hit, let alone lead into anything significant. Eggs have decent lag on the end of them, too, so if they roll towards you, you could easily get punished very hard for that. A way to cover that would be throw an egg right in front of you, but once again, they do anything else and they get out of their bad situation for free.

My main uses are covering my landings and almost like a fox laser, if you catch them with egg lay enough then they'll be forced to approach and we have a great bait and punish game
I do something similar. I use it to reverse my momentum in mid air with b-reverses to keep them guessing where I'm landing and where I'll be. B-reverse egg lays can throw people off really easily in neutral.
 

Scatz

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
2,593
Location
ATL, GA
If anything, I think Egglay should be used to help continue to put pressure on opponents when Yoshi can't followup normally. Knowing that they're going to shield any attack means that we can take advantage and create another situation where we can net more damage off a read from them jumping out of the egg. 7% is cool since that's equivalent to a tilt, then you have whatever damage you get from hitting them during the egg or afterwards.

I personally think it's not worth the use in neutral because it can miss due to the big gap in between hitboxes and it being easy to space after learning the range of egglay. When that range gets figured out, Yoshi doesn't get any advantage from using the move (outside of an on-hit). I haven't gotten the chance to use it the way I described, but I think that's the route it probably needs to go to fit in Yoshi's gameplay cleanly.
 

didds

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
1,009
Location
in a tree
it's like any other tool, it can still be good in neutral if it's not abused. Sometimes its good for covering the awkward mid range where yoshi can't threaten his opponent, but is still in danger himself, one egg lay can completely throw off a fox's flow ya know.

I like the idea of a pseudo combo ender though
 
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