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EddE's tips on TL (some useful, others weird) + some general TL knowledge

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edde

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
573
Location
Caracas, Venezuela
NNID
edmichu
EddE's TL Tips + some general TL Knowledge

Special Credits (thanks to these people this guide is way better than what it would actually be)
-PK-ow!
-BattleChrist
-Kizzu
-Aether
-YumClock
-Lobos​

  1. Recent Updates
  2. Techniques
  3. How-to, Dos, and Don'ts
  4. Notes
  5. Combos & Kill Moves
  6. Move tips

Recent Updates

- (07/07/08) [How tos, Dos and Dont's] > How to UpB kill
- (07/07/08) [How tos, Dos and Dont's] > Edge chasing with projectiles
- (07/07/08) [Combos and Kill moves] > 17% > 10%


Techniques

LEARN TO ARROW CANCEL (quickdraw)
Quickdraw is performed by hitting the b button right before landing (almost same timing as melee's lLcancel), this technique allows you to do double arrow short hop approaches, spam arrows twice faster, shoot an arrow after an aerial if opponent rolled back, throw a bomb and shoot an arrow... possibilities are endless.
Tip: For double arrow shooting cancelling second one, make your gamecube controller jump with r button, the timing with x/y buttons is pretty hard and with the stick can end up doing an up+b)
credit: battlechrist for posting YouTube vid; possibly discovery?

battlechrist's Quickdraw trick
Do a quickdraw double arrow, but, as soon as you shoot arrow #2, turn the controller stick to your opposite direction, result is you doing a 180 spin while shooting arrow #2 but arrow #2 will go same direction as arrow #1... works great for setting bair combos (when performed incorrectly, you will shoot arrow #2 in opposite direction, still good for bair combos, but has less stun and damage effects on your opponents by a little bit and it wont be as flashy XD)

Learn the Jump-canceled throw
To perform, with any item (in this case, sine its toon link, use bombs)... draw a bomb, press x/y (or r button, my TL control scheme is with r jump, makes it easier and the finger movement feel just more natural) to jump and simultaneously throw the bomb backwards (i suggest you to use the c-stick, ofc, the original smash c-stick, dont know how others work)... result is you will dash, perform a wavedash turning 180° throwing the bomb... this is a mindgame, and also works with opponents that are chasing you in some circumstances, like anti campers lol

Fight backwards
Facing back you have a huge advantage... you can bair, bair is your ultimate combo/damage racking move, and you also have uair/nair options, fighting backwards means here to give your opponent your back all match, exploit your floatiness, will make you nimble, harder to hit and will allow you to combo

Tether hogging
For Zelda and characters who recover like Zelda, the recovery has this final hit when her up+b ends, its hard to calculate to hog and it gets you off the edge if it hits, most of the time stage spiking, your solution to this is simply tether hog... this is irelevant vs characters like sheik, since her up+b doesnt hit in the end, so, regular hog does good enough and whoever hogs a MK or a marth this way wins the nobel prize of stupidity (good stuff we got a startegy vs somebody that counters TL ;D)

Wall Jump Gimp
this is kind of a personal techniquue that works bst on FD and only on stages with walls (like yoshi's)... drop yourself off stage, wall jump on that part (you know what part i mean, where our up+bs got always stuck on the first days) and nair (fair also works, use fair when your opponent is at higher %s, fair when hes at lowers)... dont get too predictable or youll be calling your opponent to stage spike you

Persistent edgehog invincibility
When edgehogging, press the control stick back and then Z instantly, then push the control stick up... regains your edge grabbing invincibility frames, great against recoveries that hit the edge, like spacies', psikids', etc... ofc, to perform good, you must calculate...
NOTE: if you press the stick away while hanging from tether, you'll have only the third jump left and tether is prolly not long enough to reach back, its important that after you tether you pull controller stick up, means, you get no invincibility frames and can end up in you suiciding

DOWNSMASH
Downsmash opponents at 20% or less: sends them away from stage on low %s, this can easily set a gimp

Attack Barrage
its not a specific technique, this is preformed at its best with a bomb on hand... for example... throw bomb up, do a quick draw and a diagonal nair... this wont do all the 3 hits unless you do a lucky pinball, but, its an easy way to land hits, works very well if you kno whow to perform it... my favorite is throw boomerang up, throw bomb up and try hitting nair/fair

Turnaround Boomerang Dash
how to perform: dash, jump (r jump suggested) and throw boomerang backwards... youll turn aroun djumping throwing your boomerang, its a good alternative plus it makes your jump cancelled throws less predictable... also good for keeping away somebody who pressures you running

How-to, Dos, and Don'ts

Bomb lag cancel
basically, throw a bomb down and dair... ON THE FLOOR, this reduces the 5 minute lag upon landing a dair on the ground, ofc it costs 7/3%... better than getting hit by a smash (i need to test this thing further, might be an answer to spike safely on air)
credit: from aether´s guide

Zero lag Boomerang catch
Do an attack or charge another attack (smash, upb, neutralb) while toon receives the boomerang, this reduces the animation lag to 0
After paying more attention to the boomerang catch, it only produces lag if you catch it while dashing or just standing... shielding, charging a smash, doing any other attack takes away all the lag

Nair
how to land both nair hits (does 20%):... do nair when your really close to your opponent and moving throw him... like a running jump, if you run through him both hits will land

Don't dair heedlessly
everybody is aware its a spike and its easy to dodge, just use it when you create a situation where you know you will land it... like, going down chasing someone, if he airdodges you have a dair, if he goes too far away, hell prolly do up+b, up+bs are easy to chase and to predict, so, its an almost guaranteed dair, if they dont dodge, do either a fair or nair to knock them farther, dair would be worth doing if they dont dodge since the have the time window to dodge when you dair

Hyphen Smash (Dash>C-Stick up for those who don't know)
A great approach move, yet still very predictable, DONT spam it

Horizontal gimping suggestions
most chars are punished worst when they are gimped by a horizontal knockback (the less upwards the better), so, what i suggest you guys is this... if you like chasing characters offstage, your nair is your best move, if it hits from the side youre facing on the farthest spot of the blade (and if you land a strong nair) the knockback will be horizontal/downwards, which, gimps really well and sometimes knocks them offwall due to the force of this move... fair has a disadvantage since its slower and has more vertical knockback (yet blows them even farther away tough) and bair has even morr vertical knockback

Outcamping and camping smartly
TL other than having his 3 awesome projectiles, has a shield, if you stand still, your shield will block about every single projectile (including max aura sphere, max charge shot, wolf/fox/falco bullets, etc), this wont block samus's missiles pk fires/thunders (i think), pikmin, falco's short hopped laser/double laser and kirby's upb... luckily, TL can outcamp with just projectiles about every of those moves, but, when you face wolf, you are headed for a world of pain, hes hardest char to outcamp, hes got reflector, rediculous fsmash and bullets, so, you need to camp him carefully, mess with his mind... to start the long range fight, stand still, wait for a good moment to throw an arrow and keep standing still, when he turns reflector, if he keeps reflector for long, hyphen smash/dash/upb him (beware of his fsmash), if he doesnt, just stand still, aim bombs for his feet and throw arrows he wont expect... so, this shield of TL, combined with his 3 projectiles and a smart player can outcamp about every character

[How to UpB kill]
Well, this is a pretty easy and effective maneuver, to do this, your opponent needs 30%+ (or you can start from 0% doing some chained bairs) after the 30% the bairs will have a more significant vertical knockback, you know when your opponent is ready to get up b'd when you require of the second jump to follow th ebair chain, after you use the bair after the second jump do an upb, its important you catch him and drive him the most away from the stage possible to increase effectivity (its quite safe, TL's amazing DI will easily get you back to stage)

Edge chasing with projectiles
In some cases, it is better to chase off stage with projectiles... for example, MK, if you try to gimp him, he will most likely gimp you, or ganon that will prolly take you down with him... or to just change your edge chase style to confuse your opponent. How i suggest you to do this is, first get a bomb, then aim the boomerang for the opponent (most of the times downwards) and you can either, throw the bomb up and spam arrows, or just spam arrows to keep bomb, the arrow spam stops horizontal recoveries, like falco's sideb and can end up making them selfdestruct acidentally... also, you can throw th eboomerang, uthrow bomb and chase aiming for a fair/nair

Notes

Quickdraw Approach
Shorthop, nair (fair and bair work too, best one is nair imo), arrow (to do easily with perfect timing slide you finger from x button to a button and finally press, dont continue the slinde, to b button)

Hogging
Either learn to speed hog or do this kind of hog i designed for when i didnt knew about the speed hog which is run to edge> before going off stage change your direction, short hop (reverse aerial rush) > prezz z (tether), if done correctly youll hang faster than a regular hog, if not, your tether will not aim for the edge

Camping
Throw boomerang and keep quickdrawing/arrow cancelling, note: try to be on a bow-holding animation for when the boomerang returns, this reduces the boomerang receiving aniomation lag... as long as youre quickdrawing double arrows, youll do fine with boomerang, also try to have a bomb in hand inany case, remmeber you can throw it and shoot an arrow if its exploding (arrow cancels also)

Using tether to cancel air momentum
well, yesterday i proved this as an effective way to survive attacks that have huge horizontal and even some with donwards knockback... any time somebody does such move to you that will send you flying horizontally/downwards, if near the edge, spam the z button, the tether will probably hang (failed to me just once out of like 6)... to set an example, yesterday vs an MK, i was at 120%, near the edge and he down smashed me... as soon as i knew i was gonna get killed if i didnt do this, i spammed L (air dodge), tapped the regular stick to DI, tapped the c-stick to DI, and spammed z, this resulted in my toon link being launched at high speed but saved because the tether hung me before the distance too long

Throwing according to your situation
TL's grab game is pretty hollow itself, if grab misses you get smashed, throws dont have great knockback and they dont do good damage... but, TLs throws can put you in situations that can favour you a lot
-dthrow at lower %s to start a bair chain or utilt/usmash to bair, up to you how to attack, beware of fast powerful aerials like lucari'os dair or MK's aerials so you dont get punished doing this
-uthrow at higher %s to go for an uair which is your best kill move, use bombs to pressure them more if possible
-use fthrow or bthrow to get them off stage

Tilts and uses i suggest
when i first wrote this guide, my TL game included no tilts except for the up one, the uptilt is one of TLs best moves since it can both combo and kill, but, i left behind his ftilt, a move with a pretty useful knockback, if landed well it does decent damage, horizontal/downwards knockback, can kill near edge at higher %s and is quite fast and good for spacing, on the other hand, you have his dtilt, very very spammable, yet i dont see many uses for it, maybe to trip an opponent or confuse him or poke his shield

Combos & Kill Moves

BEST Damage rack -> Kill
this technique consists on hyphen smash followed by an uptilt (or 2) followed by a short/long jump bair followed by a footstool dair or a jump2 dair... this technique is an almost guaranteed kill if performed correctly near the edge and works different depending on heavyweights and air tractions (hard to pull on wario while easiest to pull on ganon)
on lightweights:
hyphen smash>utilt>shorthop>bair>jump2>dair (50%)
hyphen smash>utilt>long jump>bair>footstool dair (50%) (easier version to pull... at least on MK)
on heavyweights (NOTE: lightqeight versions also work on heavyweights)
hyphen smash>utilt>utilt>shorthop>bair>jump2>dair (59%)
hyphen smash>utilt>utilt>long jump>bair>footstool dair (59%)
(combo only works at 0% so its a great game starter, try it on trainig mode on ganon, then test with other chars to get a better feel of the move.. also, if the knockback makes your bair impossible, nair is always an option, eventhough combo will end there)

Bair, DJ, dair
Kind of like a reverse Ken combo, easy to pull, 100% effective kill move, works best at lower %s... on higher percents or on fastfallers, a tip to perform this is, after the bair, jump above your opponent, dont dair, if he is starting an attack dair, if he airdodges, time your dair... or option 3 comes in... spam x/y buttons to do a footstool (be aware, cause, if you land footstool, you must do a quick dair - I mean really quick - else it wont spike)

Bomb, Upsmash
When on the ground, spam bombs throwing them up, if you land a hyphensmash into a floating bomb, youll get a really nice kill, havent tested if the bomb makes hyphen smash's knockback more critical, but, every time ive landed an hyphen smahs into a floating bomb it has killed, ofc, all those kills were at 100%+

uthrow, bair, DJ, dair
if performed correctly, either racks up 30%+ or kills

Semi-guaranteed uair (90-110% killer move)
On a flying opponent, get a bomb, run below where theyre gonna land, throw the bomb up (calculating that it will hit, if its not possible the bomb hit, then it wont work), if they air dodge, use your jumps to uair them, if they get hit by the bomb, you still have chance to uair... use uair strategically also, throw yourself off stage and do an uair... its the least expected aerial move offstage... ofc everybody expects either dair fair or nair, even sometimes bair

Footstool -> dair:
Be quick, or dair wont spike... ofc, only do this if youre 100% sure you landed the footstool... its easy to pull if youre focused on your game

Bomb -> dair
Bombs have this really little useful knockback + flinch frames that can lead you to a dair... to perform this, get a bomb, with just 1 jump (if you use jump 2 it will prolly fail) throw down your bomb (if it hits opponent on left, it launches them to the right and vice versa), if bomb lands, do a dair... if applied correctly, you have a new killer move or damage racker

Bomb gimp
several characters on the game use the strategy of going to a spot where their recovery has a 100% vertical spot which is right below the edge (marth, spacies if they go up, kirby if he has no jumps left, samus, etc)... what you need to do is throw a bomb down with the intention of making the bomb's knockback move them below the stage making their recovery nearly impossible or getting stage spiked (doesnt work on yoshi's island that good since the main platform goes all the way down, but this works pretty well on FD, battlefield, smashville, etc)

Lobos's air grab technique
this move consists on hitting the opponent with zair>grab... its an almost instant combo, its usefulness is because tethers can't grab airbone opponents, this combo will put the opponent on the ground with zair (0 landing lag) which will allow you to grab, performig an instant grab combo (almost combo -.-).... note: this combo is easier to pull on tall chars like marth/dk while its harder on smaller ones like ollie/MK

Lobos's flashy air grab
pretty much same than the tip above, just with a ridiculous timing... but its flashiness is worth it XD... to perform throw a bomb while airbone, zair>grab... way too flashy to be real, leaves your opponent both confused and amazed (same rule applies, larger characters are easier to grab this way)

17% > 10%
This is a quite good maneuver when you want to rack extra damage fast... to do this do jab>jab>upb, does 17% rather than the 10% the normal jab combo does, and its almost as fast, its extremely hard to avoid, and since very few people use it, its not a well known maneuver.... this is technically a jab cancel, but its an easy one that rarely fails

Move tips

Bomd Dropping
Bomb dropping is a technique in which you drop a bomb on the floor... the timing is tricky, its possibly more or as strict as an L cancel in melee... what you need to do is as you carry a bomb, jump and at th every moment before hitting the ground, press z, if done correctly, youll drop the bomb and it won't explode... there is a way of pulling this fast, now timing and practice here get harder: short hop (i would reccomend r jump), pull a bomb as TL is ascending, and either spam z or time z to drop the bomb correctly (spam z for slower fingers, time z for faster fingers)

Free forward smash
Takes practice, do a bomb drop, grab anybody near the bomb and keep them grabbed, when it explodes, the one left more vulnerable and open will be your opponent, if performed correctly, you have a 100% guaranteed fsmash- NOTE: havent tested this, upthrow bomb, grab someone and wait for the explosion, might work aswel, all i know is that the one i previously mentioned works well

Bomb trap
Drop bomb as explained right above (Bomb Dropping), do a dair beside the bomb and the bomb will slide
credit: kizzu

Bomb barrier
Drop a bomb as in Bomb trap, and leave it there. While it lives, it will stop about any projectile... a 2 second break vs spammers lol
credit: kizzu

Z-bomb
on the air, if you hit z while holding a bomb, you will drop it (slower fall than down throw) but, its very effective as a mindgame and has no execution lag at all, which means you can drop the bomb and do an aerial

Jab cancel
A+A+wait a second+any smash... works really good on somebody that isnt expecting it, dont use this too much (there is a tip people use, that is to hit shield button as they hit second jab hit then smash, its just buffering, reduces human lag (guess what, we aint perfect ;/), not game/character lag)

Boomerang flinch jab cancel
Basically, throw a boomerang, if your lucky to trap your opponent on a jab combo while boomerang is returning, do hit 1, hit 2, leave him, if timing is correct, boomerang will do hit 3 and guarantee you any smash, in this case i would suggest forward, upsmash as second option if he flies high

Upb for punishing
Upb is one of TL's best moves, you can give it various uses according to situations:
-if somebody likes rolling and spotdodging a lot, hell surely hate your upb
-if somebody's recovery reaches for the stage rather for the edge, upb can be a good alternat for punishing if your hyphen smash got too weak or if you would like to set a combo
-if you bair chain somebody at higher %s, the knockback will start going higher vertically, this means, when you bair him after your second jump and you can only reach him with upb, do this, the upb will most likely trap him to the last hit and the last hit at higher %s can easily kill most chars near an edge... TL's amazing aerial DI will take you back safely to the stage
 

Black_Heretic

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,895
Location
Norcal
That one on FD with the wall cling under the stage is awesome, I found it out by accident, came here to see if you guys knew about it, lo and behold, its right here

its awesome though, easy way to set up an edgehog or spike even, glad it was mentioned
 

BKrkr

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
105
Location
New York City
Switch FC
SW-5303-3831-5621
Thanks a lot, I've been off track recently with Toon, especially on my approaches and SHDA (I could never get the second to cancel the animation.)
 

Toon_Rinku

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
6
this needs stickying
not to mention little tricks that will increase your chance of winning...
 

PK-ow!

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,890
Location
Canada, ON
tips here
Organize & Categorize, man!

>>>

  1. Techniques
  2. How-to, Dos, and Don'ts
  3. Notes
  4. Combos (Kill combos)
  5. Move tips

Techniques

LEARN TO ARROW CANCEL (quickdraw)
Quickdraw is performed by hitting the b button right before landing (almost same timing as melee's lLcancel), this technique allows you to do double arrow short hop approaches, spam arrows twice faster, shoot an arrow after an aerial if opponent rolled back, throw a bomb and shoot an arrow... possibilities are endless.
Tip: For double arrow shooting cancelling second one, make your gamecube controller jump with r button, the timing with x/y buttons is pretty hard and with the stick can end up doing an up+b)
credit: battlechrist for posting YouTube vid; possibly discovery?

battlechrist's Quickdraw trick
Do a quickdraw double arrow, but, as soon as you shoot arrow #2, turn the controller stick to your opposite direction, result is you doing a 180 spin while shooting arrow #2 but arrow #2 will go same direction as arrow #1... works great for setting bair combos (when performed incorrectly, you will shoot arrow #2 in opposite direction, still good for bair combos, but has less stun and damage effects on your opponents by a little bit and it wont be as flashy XD)

Learn the Jump-cancelled throw
To perform, with any item (in this case, sine its toon link, use bombs)... draw a bomb, press x/y (or r button, my TL control scheme is with r jump, makes it easier and the finger movement feel just more natural) to jump and simultaneously throw the bomb backwards (i suggest you to use the c-stick, ofc, the original smash c-stick, dont know how others work)... result is you will dash, perform a wavedash turning 180° throwing the bomb... this is a mindgame, and also works with opponents that are chasing you in some circumstances, like anti campers lol

Fight backwards
Facing back you have a huge advantage... you can bair, bair is your ultimate combo/damage racking move, and you also have uair/nair options, fighting backwards means here to give your opponent your back all match, exploit your floatiness, will make you nimble, harder to hit and will allow you to combo

Tether hogging
For Zelda and characters who recover like Zelda, the recovery has this final hit when her up+b ends, its hard to calculate to hog and it gets you off the edge if it hits, most of the time stage spiking, your solution to this is simply tether hog... this is irelevant vs characters like sheik, since her up+b doesnt hit in the end, so, regular hog does good enough and whoever hogs a MK or a marth this way wins the nobel prize of stupidity (good stuff we got a startegy vs somebody that counters TL ;D)

Wall Jump Gimp
this is kind of a personal techniquue that works bst on FD and only on stages with walls (like yoshi's)... drop yourself off stage, wall jump on that part (you know what part i mean, where our up+bs got always stuck on the first days) and fair... this move is very effective for gimping anybody recovering, takes practive to pull it but its a great move if you know how to perform it

Persistent edgehog invincibility
When edgehogging, press the control stick back and then Z instantly, then push the control stick up... regains your edge grabbing invincibility frames, great against recoveries that hit the edge, like spacies', psikids', etc... ofc, to perform good, you must calculate...
NOTE: if you press the stick away while hanging from tether, you'll have only the third jump left and tether is prolly not long enough to reach back, its important that after you tether you pull controller stick up, means, you get no invincibility frames and can end up in you suiciding

DOWNSMASH
Downsmash opponents at 20% or less: sends them away from stage on low %s, this can easily set a gimp

Attack Barrage
its not a specific technique, this is preformed at its best with a bomb on hand... for example... throw bomb up, do a quick draw and a diagonal nair... this wont do all the 3 hits unless you do a lucky pinball, but, its an easy way to land hits, works very well if you kno whow to perform it... my favorite is throw boomerang up, throw bomb up and try hitting nair/fair

How-to, Dos, and Don'ts

Bomb lag cancel
basically, throw a bomb down and dair... ON THE FLOOR, this reduces the 5 minute lag upon landing a dair on the ground, ofc it costs 7/3%... better than getting hit by a smash (i need to test this thing further, might be an answer to spike safely on air)
credit: from aether´s guide

Zero lag Boomerang catch
Do an attack or charge another attack (smash, upb, neutralb) while toon receives the boomerang, this reduces the animation lag to 0

Nair
how to land both nair hits (does 20%):... do nair when your really close to your opponent and moving throw him... like a running jump, if you run through him both hits will land

Don't dair heedlessly
everybody is aware its a spike and its easy to dodge, just use it when you create a situation where you know you will land it... like, going down chasing someone, if he airdodges you have a dair, if he goes too far away, hell prolly do up+b, up+bs are easy to chase and to predict, so, its an almost guaranteed dair, if they dont dodge, do either a fair or nair to knock them farther, dair would be worth doing if they dont dodge since the have the time window to dodge when you dair

Hyphen Smash
A great approach move, yet still very predictable, DONT spam it

Notes

Quickdraw Approach
Shorthop, nair (fair and bair work too, best one is nair imo), arrow (to do easily with perfect timing slide you finger from x button to a button and finally press, dont continue the slinde, to b button)

Hogging
Either learn to speed hog or do this kind of hog i designed for when i didnt knew about the speed hog which is run to edge> before going off stage change your direction, short hop (reverse aerial rush) > prezz z (tether), if done correctly youll hang faster than a regular hog, if not, your tether will not aim for the edge

Camping
Throw boomerang and keep quickdrawing/arrow cancelling, note: try to be on a bow-holding animation for when the boomerang returns, this reduces the boomerang receiving aniomation lag... as long as youre quickdrawing double arrows, youll do fine with boomerang, also try to have a bomb in hand inany case, remmeber you can throw it and shoot an arrow if its exploding (arrow cancels also)

Combos

Kill moves
BEST Damage rack -> Kill
At low % do an hyphen smash followed by other usmash by 2 utilts by nair/bair, and if baired can be followed by dair to kill. Works if you know how to pull it, and ive pulled it on a lv9 (best defense timings). Got video proof.
Vid: [Forthcoming]

Bair, DJ, dair
Kind of like a reverse Ken combo, easy to pull, 100% effective kill move, works best at lower %s... on higher percents or on fastfallers, a tip to perform this is, after the bair, jump above your opponent, dont dair, if he is starting an attack dair, if he airdodges, time your dair... or option 3 comes in... spam x/y buttons to do a footstool (be aware, cause, if you land footstool, you must do a quick dair - I mean really quick - else it wont spike)

Bomb, Upsmash
When on the ground, spam bombs throwing them up, if you land a hyphensmash into a floating bomb, youll get a really nice kill, havent tested if the bomb makes hyphen smash's knockback more critical, but, every time ive landed an hyphen smahs into a floating bomb it has killed, ofc, all those kills were at 100%+

uthrow, bair, DJ, dair
if performed correctly, either racks up 30%+ or kills

Semi-guaranteed uair (90-110% killer move)
On a flying opponent, get a bomb, run below where theyre gonna land, throw the bomb up (calculating that it will hit, if its not possible the bomb hit, then it wont work), if they air dodge, use your jumps to uair them, if they get hit by the bomb, you still have chance to uair... use uair strategically also, throw yourself off stage and do an uair... its the least expected aerial move offstage... ofc everybody expects either dair fair or nair, even sometimes bair

Footstool -> dair:
Be quick, or dair wont spike... ofc, only do this if youre 100% sure you landed the footstool... its easy to pull if youre focused on your game

Bomb -> dair
Bombs have this really little useful knockback + flinch frames that can lead you to a dair... to perform this, get a bomb, with just 1 jump (if you use jump 2 it will prolly fail) throw down your bomb (if it hits opponent on left, it launches them to the right and vice versa), if bomb lands, do a dair... if applied correctly, you have a new killer move or damage racker


Move tips

Free forward smash
Takes practice, drop a bomb on the floor (hit z the moment just right before landing so it doesnt explode)), grab anybody near the bomb and keep them grabbed, when it explodes, the one left more vulnerable and open will be your opponent, if performed correctly, you have a 100% guaranteed fsmash- NOTE: havent tested this, upthrow bomb, grab someone and wait for the explosion, might work aswel, all i know is that th eone i previously mentioned works well, havent tested this one

Bomb trap
Drop bomb as explained 2 tips before (see Bomb -> dair in 'Combos'), do a dair beside the bomb and the bomb will slide
credit: kizzu

Bomb barrier
Drop a bomb as in Bomb trap, and leave it there. While it lives, it will stop about any projectile... a 2 second break vs spammers lol
credit: kizzu

Jab cancel
A+A+wait a second+any smash... works really good on somebody that isnt expecting it, dont use this too much (there is a tip people use, that is to hit shield button as they hit second jab hit then smash, its just buffering, reduces human lag (guess what, we aint perfect ;/), not game/character lag)

Boomerang flinch jab cancel
Basically, throw a boomerang, if your lucky to trap your opponent on a jab combo while boomerang is returning, do hit 1, hit 2, leave him, if timing is correct, boomerang will do hit 3 and guarantee you any smash, in this case i would suggest forward, air as second option if he flies high

<<<

I don't understand what "Attack barrage" is.
Oh and hi, I'm PK-ow!, a new TL player. Realized I really like his chops. :chuckle:
 

edde

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Organize & Categorize, man!
whoa, thanks loads

ugh by attack barrages i mean, like, a huge spam of projectiles, TL has 3 projectiles, exploit them in such way that they are almost guaranteeing you a hit and your opponent's annoyance (yeah, the annoyance gets them really off their minds, mainly because they think we care that they get annoyed of us camping)

luck with your toon link, gotta credit you

PK-ow... you used ness in any previous game? if so seems that we come from a same path (64 ness mainer, meele ness secondary, and i still use him a bit, the stragle thing just got my hopes down though =/)
 

PK-ow!

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PK-ow... you used ness in any previous game? if so seems that we come from a same path (64 ness mainer, meele ness secondary, and i still use him a bit, the stragle thing just got my hopes down though =/)
And how would you guess that I played Ness? You read my posts around SWF, or is it superpowers? I hope it's superpowers.

Yes in fact I mained him in 64 (had no idea of the competitive scene for that, or of the extent of the exploitation of DJ cancel; I just cancelled it to long range my bairs and PK fires)

And... I guess you could say I used him in Melee. But I was interested in almost everyone from that game and thought I used them all pretty proficiently. But I hadn't heard about wavedashing until 2006, so I got pwned when I finally met some competition, and never improved before the hype for Brawl started.

Luigi and Falco and Ness were my Melee favorites, Mewtwo sorta kinda.

And you know what I've put up is only a start. I just began to sort it out. Maybe make it easier for you to rearrange how it ought to be.
 

edde

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And how would you guess that I played Ness? You read my posts around SWF, or is it superpowers? I hope it's superpowers.

Yes in fact I mained him in 64 (had no idea of the competitive scene for that, or of the extent of the exploitation of DJ cancel; I just cancelled it to long range my bairs and PK fires)

And... I guess you could say I used him in Melee. But I was interested in almost everyone from that game and thought I used them all pretty proficiently. But I hadn't heard about wavedashing until 2006, so I got pwned when I finally met some competition, and never improved before the hype for Brawl started.

Luigi and Falco and Ness were my Melee favorites, Mewtwo sorta kinda.

And you know what I've put up is only a start. I just began to sort it out. Maybe make it easier for you to rearrange how it ought to be.
PK (in your name) is what made me guess you used ness lol... quite same with me, i only used ness in 64 because i played (not competitive) best as him and no of my bros/cousins could beat me... on melee i pretty much used ness for a while, then changed to marth... now on melee my main was marth with seconds falco, sheik, luigi, fox and ofc ness lol

what you did was great, now its easy to search for the moves and add new ones in an organized way, i think i might be able to improve mispells and mistakes later
 

zaf

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nice read edde. You took what was scattered on the tl forums and grouped it up. good job

i only have one dis agreement with you, when you say to learn to fight facing backwards. This isn't necessarily the best way to fight an opponent. Granted bair is amazing, but TL isn't marth from melee. You cant rely on this move and use it all the time.
 

edde

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heh thanks, i thing we have a huge disagreement lol, maybe TL is not melee's marth (ironic, marth was my melee main), but he has a great approach facing backwards, not only his speed and little lag is on TL's favour, but his agility and floatiness can help you take advantage of your short range and outspeed your enemies when you find a open window where you can bair... OFC, you should be facing backwards if they penetrated your camp game, not saying forward game is innefective, but, back game is just good to rack some good damage, approach and get them off their minds... i just find forward game useful for gimping, finishing, juggling and sometimes as mindgame

i would like to hear a better way than fighting backwards as toon link, you said that backwards isnt necessarly his best way of fighting, you know, i would like to see your ideas and point of views to maybe develop other strategy as TL
 

zaf

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heh thanks, i thing we have a huge disagreement lol, maybe TL is not melee's marth (ironic, marth was my melee main), but he has a great approach facing backwards, not only his speed and little lag is on TL's favour, but his agility and floatiness can help you take advantage of your short range and outspeed your enemies when you find a open window where you can bair... OFC, you should be facing backwards if they penetrated your camp game, not saying forward game is innefective, but, back game is just good to rack some good damage, approach and get them off their minds... i just find forward game useful for gimping, finishing, juggling and sometimes as mindgame

i would like to hear a better way than fighting backwards as toon link, you said that backwards isnt necessarly his best way of fighting, you know, i would like to see your ideas and point of views to maybe develop other strategy as TL

My most effective use of toon link is as follows.

I play the camp game, using shda, boomerang and bombs. SHDA racks up a lot of damage and fast. I slowly inch myself towards my opponent and when i catch them in a bomb explosion or boomerang hit i hyphen smash and follow with uair. i juggle them as much as i can with the uair till they die or land seeing as uair has amazing priority.

If someone moves in to fast when i am using the camp game, i predict their movement and hyphen smash and follow up with the uair. OR i will use dsmash seeing as that also has amazing priority, comes out very fast and can ko.

If i am close to the edge i shield grab them and shoot them over the edge and either dair them or edge guard really well with fairs and projectiles. I have mastered dair lol.

If i stick to using this strategy, i don't leave my opponent with much else to do rather then camp back or always rush in.

Sticking to what wins and keeps you on top is key in winning matches.
 

PK-ow!

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Hey guys, how the heck do I z drop?

I know the answer appears to be contained in the question, but when I z, I throw the bomb, as though I gave an attack input.

I used search and found the tip that it works at the peak of a DJ and just before hitting the ground (likely same window as the Koopa Claw :hmm: ), but are there other times? (the threads I found these data in are decrepit)

EDIT: Oh yeah, and

*facepalm*

forgot my own name... :urg:
 

zaf

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Hey guys, how the heck do I z drop?

I know the answer appears to be contained in the question, but when I z, I throw the bomb, as though I gave an attack input.

I used search and found the tip that it works at the peak of a DJ and just before hitting the ground (likely same window as the Koopa Claw :hmm: ), but are there other times? (the threads I found these data in are decrepit)

EDIT: Oh yeah, and

*facepalm*

forgot my own name... :urg:
You are throwing the bomb when you press "z" because you are slightly moving the joy stick prompting an attack. DO NOT touch the joystick when you want to do this. =P

The best time is right when you jump so that you barely leave the ground, or when you are falling back to the ground right before you hit it. You can not be moving like i said before when you do this because YOU WILL THROW THE BOMB. You have to be still and very very close to the ground.
 

edde

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thats maybe because you have never been punished out of an hyphen smash... hyphen smash is too shield grabbable...

now, imagine in the worst case scenario youre fighting an MK or a marth chasing you with fairs... if MK predicts the hyphen smash he will pwn you with his broken grabs, if marth does hell counter, if you dont fight them on the air, youll get owned by their fairs or MKs dair... i honestly believe that bair is TL's best move, combo setter and damage racker... and at highest %s its the best kill move you have since its very fast

now... onto others, spacies... fox will go to the other edge and spam bullets outranging you, falco prolly too and wolf would pwn you with his bullets and x2 speed reflector

now, what you need to do is use TL's range pressure against all of the examples above, moving around the stage, trying to confuse them and using mind games... fighting backwards sure pressures them a lot since its fast and effective, but also, dont let that be your only move, throw a projectile, maybe boomerang or bomb altering their directions, if they leave you an open chance do a hyphen smash, or grab them uthrow/dthrow and juggle them with bair/utilt/usmash/uair and chase not only with uair, cause if they dodge, youre screwed, but chase themwith mindgames... if you uair a lot wait them to air dodge and do fair, you can also jump 1 to bair, jump 2 to uair... just use your range pressure which is best exploited with bair combined with projectiles (also, this note might help you, fair nair and bair are arrow cancelable in short jumps)
 

edde

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hey guys, i added a Recent Updates section to the guide, this will help the ones that have read the whole guide already to find if there is new content

happy brawling
 

zaf

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thats maybe because you have never been punished out of an hyphen smash... hyphen smash is too shield grabbable...

now, imagine in the worst case scenario youre fighting an MK or a marth chasing you with fairs... if MK predicts the hyphen smash he will pwn you with his broken grabs, if marth does hell counter, if you dont fight them on the air, youll get owned by their fairs or MKs dair... i honestly believe that bair is TL's best move, combo setter and damage racker... and at highest %s its the best kill move you have since its very fast

now... onto others, spacies... fox will go to the other edge and spam bullets outranging you, falco prolly too and wolf would pwn you with his bullets and x2 speed reflector

now, what you need to do is use TL's range pressure against all of the examples above, moving around the stage, trying to confuse them and using mind games... fighting backwards sure pressures them a lot since its fast and effective, but also, dont let that be your only move, throw a projectile, maybe boomerang or bomb altering their directions, if they leave you an open chance do a hyphen smash, or grab them uthrow/dthrow and juggle them with bair/utilt/usmash/uair and chase not only with uair, cause if they dodge, youre screwed, but chase themwith mindgames... if you uair a lot wait them to air dodge and do fair, you can also jump 1 to bair, jump 2 to uair... just use your range pressure which is best exploited with bair combined with projectiles (also, this note might help you, fair nair and bair are arrow cancelable in short jumps)


I do not think you read my post right. I have been punished when i have done a hyphen smash to soon, but i have learned when and when not to use it. Which is why i do not just do it at any time. You did not read my post correctly, I had said that i only hyphen smash when i see the opportunity off of a bomb or boomerang stun. Now how can i get grabbed or even get hit by someone who can't attack back? Please read properly next time.

When it comes to a spamming fair marth or a crazy meta knight, i play the spam game still. Meta knight can use the tornado to get past my projectiles, so i avoid him and keep my distance using projectiles and hyphen or down smashing at right times. Same thing with marth, i keep the pressure on with spamming and marth doesnt have much ways to get to me, besides rushing so i can time when i hit him. Marth and meta knight are not bad match ups at all you used a bad example.

I'm just wondering, but do you even test half of the things you say? Did you not know that Toon's shield can block all of the spacies projectiles. You can just sit there and let them shoot there projectiles and move in closer. You can then use your three different projectiles to play the spam game again. And the reflector isnt a problem because if they do it, you have a chance to move in. Falco's reflector cant be held like wolf and fox so only so many of toon's projectiles can be sent back.

Now what would you do against me? If we played each other? While you are playing backwards and trying to bair me, i am able to spam you all i want and you cant move in as you would like to and you dont have your shield facing me to block projectiles. I can easily dodge out of the way and keep spamming you all i want and when i get a good stun in i will ko you.

bair is not the best move, get over it.
 

edde

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thats then because you havent fought a good MK... a good MK will fly past your projectiles, his real problem will sometimes be bomerang, few times will be bomb, but, once he is on top of you, his fair and dair will pwn you, if he touches floor without being unpunished yet he will either spam dsmash or grabs, which he will all chase with glide, if he misses up+b, if he misses glide 2 and if he misses he dsmashes (all those 4 hits within 1 second if you avioid them all)... last time i checked, all projectiles stopped tornado (maybe all except arrows)... also, timing MK in the ground is near impossible... look at his ftilt,dtilt and dsmash, besides of that hes also got pretty **** moves... now marth, once he is into you, your ground game got outranged and outspeeded by dancing blade, your frontal air game is too innefective against his fair and nair, your bair is your best way out eventhough his fair is still a ton better in range than your bair and he also has counter, which punishes good smashes overall... you just need to space him well and use the agility in your favour.. ofc, if he spaces you wel, youre pretty much done for

does it even matter if marth and MK are neutral matchups? why have MKs and marths (maybe marths) won more tourneys than toon? they are still tough opponents that are maybe neutral vs toon becuase of the camp game and the bair

spacies pprrjectiles move you, + if they short hop they DO hit you, with which moral arr eyou gonna talk to me about spacies and TL? i main TL bbut my seconds are falco and wolf and my best friend mains fox... so i pretty much know all about spacies and i know that wolf will hit your shiled a lot to move you to the edge, if he s that succesfully youre skewered, wolf's edge game is amazing in the right hands (not mention his recovery is great, its underrated beecause noobs who try to main wolfgive up because the recovery is tricky to use and wont care on making a minor effort to learn to use it)... also... as falco, you dont spam the reflector when using it, you time it and you also, you either try to keep a distance or hit with the reflector... wolf's and fox's reflectors are pretty much **** vs your camping... now camping out..
spacies have great smashes, not to mention falco's forward (range) and up (dash cancellable), all of wolf's for their range and power and fox's up (insane power to speed ratio and best hyphen smash in game) and his dsmash that has spiky effects sometimes... they also have good tilts, prolly the only spacie with worse tilts than toon's is wolf, but his smashes make up for them

now on TL dittoes... both camping... how to approach when you get tired of camping... you grab a bomb to set a hitstul and then catch him with bair... or approach with projectiles, turn around and bair... or approach, see an open window, hyphen smash and juggle with bair... tell me one move that is actually more useful than bair in a good TL's game...

bair is TL's best move, im starting to get bored of explaining the same thing over and over, if you dont like bair, dont bair... fight however you want, not stopping you, just advicing you
 

zaf

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thats then because you havent fought a good MK... a good MK will fly past your projectiles, his real problem will sometimes be bomerang, few times will be bomb, but, once he is on top of you, his fair and dair will pwn you, if he touches floor without being unpunished yet he will either spam dsmash or grabs, which he will all chase with glide, if he misses up+b, if he misses glide 2 and if he misses he dsmashes (all those 4 hits within 1 second if you avioid them all)... last time i checked, all projectiles stopped tornado (maybe all except arrows)... also, timing MK in the ground is near impossible... look at his ftilt,dtilt and dsmash, besides of that hes also got pretty **** moves... now marth, once he is into you, your ground game got outranged and outspeeded by dancing blade, your frontal air game is too innefective against his fair and nair, your bair is your best way out eventhough his fair is still a ton better in range than your bair and he also has counter, which punishes good smashes overall... you just need to space him well and use the agility in your favour.. ofc, if he spaces you wel, youre pretty much done for

does it even matter if marth and MK are neutral matchups? why have MKs and marths (maybe marths) won more tourneys than toon? they are still tough opponents that are maybe neutral vs toon becuase of the camp game and the bair

spacies pprrjectiles move you, + if they short hop they DO hit you, with which moral arr eyou gonna talk to me about spacies and TL? i main TL bbut my seconds are falco and wolf and my best friend mains fox... so i pretty much know all about spacies and i know that wolf will hit your shiled a lot to move you to the edge, if he s that succesfully youre skewered, wolf's edge game is amazing in the right hands (not mention his recovery is great, its underrated beecause noobs who try to main wolfgive up because the recovery is tricky to use and wont care on making a minor effort to learn to use it)... also... as falco, you dont spam the reflector when using it, you time it and you also, you either try to keep a distance or hit with the reflector... wolf's and fox's reflectors are pretty much **** vs your camping... now camping out..
spacies have great smashes, not to mention falco's forward (range) and up (dash cancellable), all of wolf's for their range and power and fox's up (insane power to speed ratio and best hyphen smash in game) and his dsmash that has spiky effects sometimes... they also have good tilts, prolly the only spacie with worse tilts than toon's is wolf, but his smashes make up for them

now on TL dittoes... both camping... how to approach when you get tired of camping... you grab a bomb to set a hitstul and then catch him with bair... or approach with projectiles, turn around and bair... or approach, see an open window, hyphen smash and juggle with bair... tell me one move that is actually more useful than bair in a good TL's game...

bair is TL's best move, im starting to get bored of explaining the same thing over and over, if you dont like bair, dont bair... fight however you want, not stopping you, just advicing you


your advice sucks, bair is not the best, get over it. Its not that i don't like it either, because i used to main toon. When you just use bair as your main move, all you are doing is playing a "marth" styled game. That has proven to be very in effective against a lot of chars. Try and bair combo against a mk, you will get pwned fast. You need to use toon's projectiles to rack up damage without getting hit, so that you have higher chances of winning. stop relying on the one move.

how can you say that fair is ineffective against a marth. it has great knock back and can space the match for you. which will set you up for projectiles again.

i am chosing to ignore everything you said about the spacies character match up, because you must really suck with them and your friend must as well. You have no idea how well projectiles can work against them. Once again, if you spam, you reduce them to using the reflector and you can sneak in attacks, rinse and repeat. But when you use bair you risk getting in close with those chars and getting hit more. ffs


http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4544419&posted=1#post4544419

read the post by JesiahTEG. He speaks about winning, something you probally know nothing about.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=MbSArHins4I

watch santi ( probally the best tl on the tl forums) .

Everytime he tries to bair, mk punishes him. Santi lands more nair attacks then he does bair. How effect is your beloved best toon link move bair doing now? this is why you spam.

ugh...i am done in this thread. Play how you want but stop telling people to bair so much, toon link isnt marth.
 

edde

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ok, you have some points right... fair is not totally inefective, but it is less effective than bair, marth's fair can **** yours easily, fair is not a combo move, its a finisher move

second of all, by saying your bair is your best move, i dont mean that you use your bair to chase anybody... i suggest you to use bair when somebody passed through your projectiles... besides, a MK doesnt pwn a well done bair combo, he can, but when you perform it correctly, your low bair knockback and good amount of flinch frames leave him open to be followed up by as many bairs as your jumps allow you or if hes on high % you will just have to chase harder with uair... besides, bair is th emove that can set one of TL's maybe real combos (im about 70% sure its an actual combo rather than a string) which is bair footstool dair (OFC dair has to be performed fast enough to spike)


already seen santi, hes probably the best along with kizzu... i personally believe kizzu can be better cause he plays since JP release and has posted some useful TL strategies of the basic TL game that is developed so far... now... look at santi's title... bair naked bonage, do you think he would put bair if it sucked? honestly, if you want to keep arguing here, tell me which of TL's moves is better than bair

and... im not telling people to bair much... learn to read ******... the tip i slearn to fight backwards... not fight backwards 100% of the time

on the other hand, nair can be more accurate, but nair is nowhere near as good as bair, its maybe better than bair against MK because it has a 2 side and maybe bigger hitbox, but the nair wont allow him to do 2 or 3 more consecutile bairs or even a footstool dair
 

JesiahTEG

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ok, you have some points right... fair is not totally inefective, but it is less effective than bair, marth's fair can **** yours easily, fair is not a combo move, its a finisher move

second of all, by saying your bair is your best move, i dont mean that you use your bair to chase anybody... i suggest you to use bair when somebody passed through your projectiles... besides, a MK doesnt pwn a well done bair combo, he can, but when you perform it correctly, your low bair knockback and good amount of flinch frames leave him open to be followed up by as many bairs as your jumps allow you or if hes on high % you will just have to chase harder with uair... besides, bair is th emove that can set one of TL's maybe real combos (im about 70% sure its an actual combo rather than a string) which is bair footstool dair (OFC dair has to be performed fast enough to spike)


already seen santi, hes probably the best along with kizzu... i personally believe kizzu can be better cause he plays since JP release and has posted some useful TL strategies of the basic TL game that is developed so far... now... look at santi's title... bair naked bonage, do you think he would put bair if it sucked? honestly, if you want to keep arguing here, tell me which of TL's moves is better than bair

and... im not telling people to bair much... learn to read ******... the tip i slearn to fight backwards... not fight backwards 100% of the time

on the other hand, nair can be more accurate, but nair is nowhere near as good as bair, its maybe better than bair against MK because it has a 2 side and maybe bigger hitbox, but the nair wont allow him to do 2 or 3 more consecutile bairs or even a footstool dair
To be completely honest, there are no amazing Toon Link players yet. Almost nobody plays him in tourney, save Azen, who also plays every character so it doesn't really count.
 

QUIVO

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Doesn't matter whether bair or nair is better, they're both good and have their uses.

I like to approach with nairs. If they shield, try to land on the otherside and start using bairs from behind.
If your bair hits the shield, go to the otherside and hit a nair before you land.
Both moves can be used very well defensively and offensively
 

Lobos

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To be completely honest, there are no amazing Toon Link players yet. Almost nobody plays him in tourney, save Azen, who also plays every character so it doesn't really count.
My TL > Azen's TL

Lol but he doesn't play TL, I've seen his Link in action still good but Link's Recovery sucks.It is true that no one really plays him in tourneys. In the Va/Md region there is only like 3 TL mains that do well in tourneys and the highest I've place is 13th :(
 

blazefox

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I have an easy mindgame/ combo opener. (: Short hop and throw a bomb over your opponents head, then immediatly f-air. If they roll back, the bomb hits them. If they jump, bomb hits them, and possibly the F-air. If they spot dodge, you can down-smash them. If they do nothing, they get hit by your F-air into the bomb, which can kill at 150% I believe. If they roll behind you, spot dodge or roll. Or you can try short hop N-air, or B-air.
 

edde

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I have an easy mindgame/ combo opener. (: Short hop and throw a bomb over your opponents head, then immediatly f-air. If they roll back, the bomb hits them. If they jump, bomb hits them, and possibly the F-air. If they spot dodge, you can down-smash them. If they do nothing, they get hit by your F-air into the bomb, which can kill at 150% I believe. If they roll behind you, spot dodge or roll. Or you can try short hop N-air, or B-air.
its a pretty good thing, well thought also, but shield grabbing punishes easily, sorry

@jesiah... theres indeed amazing toon links at the moment, amazing for these days i would say (what, everybody sucks because they aint as good as they will be in 5 years?;/) santi, kizzu, battlechrist and antichrist, all of them are pretty **** at the moment and i consider them to be really good smash players (maybe not comparable to the smash players a few years from now to say something)

@QUIVO... where did i deny that nair is a good move? yes, i keep saying bair is better, but that doesnt automatically make nair suck

@lobos.... you wish lol, i bet azen's CF > anyone's anybody
 

YumClock

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Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
148
Well this is a little out of place....
For those of you who are having trouble with bomb walling or whatever...
It is easily done in a single short hop.
just jump, pull out a bomb, and immediately drop it.
The timing makes it almost impossible for you to bomb yourself, and if you mess up you still have a nice bomb.
I'm pretty noobish with TL, and I don't use projectiles much, but this does work quite nicely.

*long post*
oh yeah, i heard somewhere on Youtube that kizzu plays Marth now. Don't kill me or anything, but can anyone dis/confirm this?
 

edde

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Does anyone else short hop +hookshot in air + dash grab?

Kind of like what I did here but without a bomb. http://youtube.com/watch?v=keSawy__keY
hmmm that combo didnt seem to me like a zair to dash grab... seemed more like a fair... anyways, after i test it w and check its usefulness, i could add it to the list if you want

combo is sick, but sinced you kept resetting his damage meter, it could turn out to only work at low %s
 
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