Early observations and random tips.

[HenryXLII]

Did a fair amount of games with Piranha Plant, and this is what I found so far.

Fast Fall City

-Holly fast falling Batman! This has got to be the most awkward weight I have ever felt with a character in this game. Easily the first thing to notice, and Plants will probably be combo food.

The Gas

-Poison Gas is actually busted. It causes shield damage, and if you grab them while they are blocking you can get 60% just by holding them in the gas. I think this is without a doubt the strongest part of Piranha's tool kit.

-One weakness of the gas is obviously that is causes no knockback. So if they are shielding it, they are by no means trapped, and can still avoid your grabs. The point still stands that landing a grab in this gas is absurd.

-Poison Gas obscures your next movement! Your opponent will be forced to read what you come out of the gas with, and if you are feeling cheecky you can get a down B in.


Kill Options

-Down B probably will not be that great of a move. The kill power is absurd, but it is very easy to react to. You also have to commit to the whole thing, and changing direction mid charge takes some delicate timing, as if you land on your side you are committed to that angle.

-Up Smash surprisingly sucks, at least in range. I never feel comfortable throwing out this move, and have found no uses for it. Perhaps it can used at the end of a Nair drag down?

-Nair drag downs seem like you can get almost anything out of. Forward tilt is the easiest one I have found, but I bet a Smash attack can be squeezed in there, especially if buffered.

-Grab range is really bad. Which is to be expected, but still shield grabbing does not even feel like an existent defensive option unless your opponent has presented themselves to you on a silver platter.

-Throw game is actually pretty decent, Forward and Back get good distance off stage, and Up kills at higher percents. Thank goodness, as this character will probably have to rely on a kill throw.

-No real intuitive kill options outside of Up throw and Back air. I expect this to change as the character's meta develops.

Off Stage

-Edge guarding is actually pretty good. Aerials have range, and the fast fall speed helps.

-Recovery is pretty great, like a horizontal K.Rool only fast and steerable. You can actually land on stage if your opponent does not react fast enough.

-When people get caught in your Up B's hitbox, they tend to stay there. Surprisingly consistent hitbox

-Neutral B is very good at covering ledge options, especially on battlefield. If you let them hit you with get up attack or jump down aerial, the ball will actually land ontop of them and deal heavy knockback.

-Be very careful using Down B off stage, it extends Piranha Plant's hitbox quite a bit and you can get spiked from all the way across the pit.

Collective impressions: This character feels pretty awkward as expected and has some really jank set ups. But actually making good plays with it feels very satisfying. I think that Poison Gas is by far the best and most unique part of the plant's tool kit, and will play a key role in determining it's viability. I won't say anything on how good I think the character is, as it is way too early. That said, I don't think this is the most intuitive character in the world, and it will take alot of practice and labbing to get it to a consistent level. I really look forward to seeing what set ups people come up with, especially if there are any good ones for Down B.

Personally I really enjoy the character, and it will probably be in my line up. Seriously, those win screens are god tier.

Happy smashing everyone!

 

[Grump]

I had already decided he would be my main before he was released, so I'm glad he's as good as he is (and he fits my playstyle perfectly)!

This being said, I've seen a couple nifty tricks with him. His Poison Cloud is good for not only controlling the stage, but potentially forcing a reaction from your opponent if they want to play aggressive. If they go for a jump or sh-aerial, a ptooie eats that up. If they dash in regardless of the cloud, Plant has enough tools to handle that (staggered tilts, jab combo, grab, w/e). If they just stand there, you can go for free poke with ptooie or downB, and hiding these options by standing in the cloud will cover your choice.

If you are grabbing the ledge, Plant has some insanely safe options. Drop-hop pptooie launches the projectile at an angle that applies nice pressure to any close enemies, and potentially opens space for a get-up. A more risky approach is a drop-hop Poison Cloud, as that'll linger long enough for any get-up. Drop-hop fair also reaches deceptively far, and cancels nicely into a jab that can (if shielded) push them away enough to be unpunished. TO make things even more interesting, a drop-upB can let you steer really close to the course and can catch people off-guard, limiting their time for reacting with a shield-grab.

Standing near the edge while the opponent recovers, simply holding Ptooie is a great way to instill fear. That hovering projectile is nasty for over-the-top attempts, and if you see they are going for a lower approach back to the stage then you can toss that spiked ball instead of hovering it. Don't forget you can let go of B to let the projectile fall and catch anybody hoping to catch you with a nair or some fairs.

DACUS is surprisingly good with this guy, as his Up-Smash reached just past Battlefield platforms.

Against K-Rool, a nice 0-70 combo is possible. Fully charged Poison Cloud, Grab and hold for a second, D-Throw to Up-Smash. Would probably work against all super-heavies.

 

[grizby2]

hoo boy! PP is hype!



I did a bit of testing in training mode and experimented with a couple of things. i'll help add on some tips!

Spike ball and poison gas really peaked my interest, so here's what I've managed to find.
poison gas can be reflected and countered like normal.
Spike ball can be countered/reflected/pocketed before its launched by PP.

reflecting spike ball while its hovering over PP is ok, but if PP has already launched it, then it's really not worth trying to reflect this thing. if someone manages to reflect it, it either flies right above you, or it just rolls one inch in front of the person who reflected it. its actually REALLY hard to get hit by your own spike ball. you would have to IMMEDIATELY jump right after its reflected to get hit, so I wouldn't worry about it coming back.



here's a couple of things you REALLY need to know if you want to main PP!



G&W's oil panic can actually reflect spike ball with PROPER trajectory! so be careful. also, poison gas cannot be used to fill up oil panic, but oil panic can still be used to reflect poison gas.

if you're close enough to her and she uses Down B, she can hit you with your own spike ball while its whirling around! poison gas can be negated by her Down B as well, but it must be BEFORE it starts dealing damage to her. so if shes already in the cloud, she aint getting rid of that stuff so easily! also, poison gas can kill lumas.

when Kirby uses inhale, he can only EAT spike ball. he cannot spit it back out as a star. poison gas can be spit out as a star or eaten.
Dedede can inhale both spike ball and poison gas and don't forget that he can release them for more damage.
Wario can eat spike ball and poison gas. (watch out for HIS poison gas, amiright?)

JUST DON'T. Pocket is your worst nightmare with these two. remember, Pocket has a damage multiplier of 1.9x damage. if they pocket poison gas, it'll do crazy damage if you stay in it. OH, and spike ball? FORGET IT. if they use it and it hits the floor first, it'll do 34%...that's the MINIMUM it can do.... if it hits you without touching the floor (which is most likely going to be the case), you'll take 41%! not to mention it'll do LOTS of shield damage!

Anyway! hope this helps! lets continue to find more secrets!

 

[JOE!]

Early observations:

The gas can be a pseudo counter in that if you throw it out and an enemy approaches you, especially for a grab, you end up winning the damage trade more often than not. Positioning matters more, but specifically there was a Jtails vid released earlier where a DK grabbed him, and took easily over double the % he dealt to the plant since he grabbed while in the cloud.

Down B can be angled down in the air, could be a ballsy landing option and/or a hype offstage snipe.

 

[Grump]

I think one of the big issues coming up is people realizing they mayyy be better off running through the cloud and attacking during the endlag. Spacing will be key since there’s no knockback, and characters with far-moving dash attacks will be carried past the cloud.

 

[JOE!]

I think one of the big issues coming up is people realizing they mayyy be better off running through the cloud and attacking during the endlag. Spacing will be key since there’s no knockback, and characters with far-moving dash attacks will be carried past the cloud.

True, but I see it as more of something that forces an option. Even that could be to your benefit as it makes people want to try and approach, which you could punish. If they whiff something in the cloud, they still eat damage. If you get a shield grab... rip. So on and so on. The poison is suicide to try and shield, so unless you are fighting a character that can nullify it entirely, it is a good option to force a reaction to punish.

 

[Grump]

True, but I see it as more of something that forces an option. Even that could be to your benefit as it makes people want to try and approach, which you could punish. If they whiff something in the cloud, they still eat damage. If you get a shield grab... rip. So on and so on. The poison is suicide to try and shield, so unless you are fighting a character that can nullify it entirely, it is a good option to force a reaction to punish.

I agree, and this is why I love this character. He an create a bunch of situations that require a reaction while also making almost every reaction hurt. A nice mix between bait-and-punish and controlled aggression.

One of my decent buddies who is almost at Elite Smash level with Ganondorf is having issues with how many tools PPlant has. I think that’s exactly what make PPlant so great: way too many tools!

 

[Midoriki]

How I've been using down-b to ledge guard:

For low commitment edge guards I roll to the ledge and start down b while still on stage. If they recover high or horizontally I angle off stage which pushes you off and lets you hit super far just below or above the level of the ledge. If they recover low I don't angle and cancel the attack early to minimize how long I'm vulnerable. If I have time I do this after a neutral b, since that makes people want to recover high.

If I want to do a risky hard commit, I full hop off the stage and start charging down-b, and get ready to react.
If they try to go over me I angle forwards to hit them, generally expecting an air dodge.
If they try to challenge me with a recovery move, I super armor through it and hit back hard.
If they try to go under me, I keep charging, then angle towards the stage to stage spike.
It's super risky cuz if you mess up you have to recover low which is easy to get spiked from, but its so fun when it works~

 

[HenryXLII]

I went to the lab to test the kill power of Up Throw. For the test I went to Pokemon Stadium 2 and set the DI to "A lot"

-Up throw kills Bowser at 185% and Pichu at 118%. Keep in mind this is with DI and the animation is quick, so sometimes they may mess that up. On average I have been getting kills with it online at 145%, and 125% on platforms.

-Down Throw to Forward Air is kind of underwhelming, so I much prefer to go for Down Throw into Spike Ball at low percent. It does not combo, but works great as a mix up and heavily limits your opponents options, and will punish an air dodge to the side.

...his Up-Smash reached just past Battlefield platforms.

Thank you so much for this advice, I have had alot less time getting kills with it, and the knockback is really good!

 

[Scout Hassle]

-Down Throw to Forward Air is kind of underwhelming

I found it works really nicely near the ledge into d.air. it doesn't guarantee it but I've had a lot of early kills this way

 

[JOE!]

Dthrow -> Uair / Nair / Ptooie I think is better than the Fair

Also, has anyone else been trying to mess with Down b angles for between Up / Side? Seems timing based rather than strict control on the stick.

Also also, been playing with just a basic Down B upwards as a sort of Up Air. Dont charge all the way, and just let it fly up sorta like Belmont Up Air for more oomph in certain situations

 

[Midoriki]

Also, has anyone else been trying to mess with Down b angles for between Up / Side? Seems timing based rather than strict control on the stick.

Yeah, I went frame by frame in training mode to confirm. Grounded down-b takes 20 frames from the first input to reach the lowest grounded angle regardless of any other inputs you give as far as I can tell.

I generally charge for a bit before starting the angle because of that.

Also also, been playing with just a basic Down B upwards as a sort of Up Air. Dont charge all the way, and just let it fly up sorta like Belmont Up Air for more oomph in certain situations

Neutral B also works well for that! Doesn't hit as hard but comes out a little faster and can probably beat directional air-dodges if you angle it towards them after they dodge.

 

[Sausage Zeldas]

Does anyone know how exactly the Down-B armor works? Is it based on knockback, where you're hit (I think I've armored through things that hit the pot even after I released the attack?), or just when the game arbitrarily decides I'm not allowed to have nice things?


Also I definitely disagree with some things in the OP here. Down-B has been an amazing move in my experience, unless I'm just playing against bad players. As long as you don't throw it out willy-nilly (which I admit I'm guilty of), the armor (when it works, I guess) lets you get much-needed safer landings and can act as a counter of sorts, and the range makes a terrific edgeguard, or a hard punish if you pressure the opponent into an airdodge. Also eats opponents waiting to edgeguard you, or, again, has the armor to counter a gimp attempt. Using the tilt perfectly requires some practice, and I think now is a perfect time to overuse it to work on aiming, while people are still somewhat unfamiliar on how to play around it.

As for kill options, Up Smash can definitely catch the opponent in a few situations, like as a quick ledge option read or using its small-but-present disjoint to catch things like some dash attacks and Nairs, and it's often worthwhile to go for since it KOs at like 80%. On-stage Dair meteor into Up Smash also works pretty reliably at certain %s, and can also be replaced with Dair>Down-B if the opponent is conditioned to jump away from a meteor hit. Piranha Plant also, of course, has an amazing kill option in just tossing them off the stage and using its Belmont-levels of edgeguard potential to secure KOs.

On the flipside, I can't get drag-down Nair to work for anything unless the opponent is completely unprepared, since the almost complete lack of hitstun means you're almost definitely going to get stuffed by a jab. You miiight have enough time to shield the jab and just go for Up Smash OoS? If they didn't push you too far away. I dunno, probably just haven't played around with it enough.

 

[HenryXLII]

On the flipside, I can't get drag-down Nair to work for anything unless the opponent is completely unprepared, since the almost complete lack of hitstun means you're almost definitely going to get stuffed by a jab. You miiight have enough time to shield the jab and just go for Up Smash OoS? If they didn't push you too far away. I dunno, probably just haven't played around with it enough.

I think the issue is the landing lag Piranha has with the move. It is not possible to auto cancel so there seems to be a lack of follow ups outside of jab and f-tilt. I think the semi bad landing lag is one of the things holding Piranha back right now.