Early Chrom speculation.

[Flowen231]

From what I was able to tell in the reveal and in the mini trailer that nintendo posted, chrom seems to be like lucina where his blade has no strengths or weaknesses compared to roy's. I'm thinking that he may just be a better roy all around because of that with the exception of his recovery since having a stronger hit at the far end of his disjoint may eliminate quite a few of roy's weaknesses. The real question here is, how much of a nerf is that recovery in this game since recoveries seem to have gotten a bit of a universal nerf. What do you guys think at this stage?

 

[OhMyBanana54]

Aether has more vertical range than blazer so honestly I think Chrom is just better Roy if his sword is balanced.

 

[Fell God]

We haven't seen much of Chrom in the air, so we can't know for sure he has Roy's awful jump height and falling speed, but if he's anything like Roy, his edgeguarding and recovery will be critically weak.

 

[Flowen231]

We haven't seen much of Chrom in the air, so we can't know for sure he has Roy's awful jump height and falling speed, but if he's anything like Roy, his edgeguarding and recovery will be critically weak.

I never considered that, but unless his general stats are worse than roy's I reckon he's nothing but better mostly atm.

Aether has more vertical range than blazer so honestly I think Chrom is just better Roy if his sword is balanced.

That's what I'm thinking. You do raise a good point though, more vertical upb = better edgeguarding right off the bat, but does it sweet spot and is it as exploitable as ike's is a good question.

Is it december yet?

 

[HenryXLII]

The Marth line of characters have always had issues recovering, and Chrom wont be an exception. Having Ike's Aether recovery does not seem terrible on paper since it's rather hard to edgeguard Ike once he is under the ledge. But the fact that he lacks Ike's quick draw means that this man is going to have some issues when taken far off stage.

Not to mention, I think Aether will be weaker out shield than Roy's Up B which is one of Roy's best defensive options. Aether also does not lend itself to combos as easily as Roy's Up B thanks to it's overall slow startup.

So all and all, Chrom might actually be weaker than Roy. But that will depend on if he has a better neutral, and if he has the same fast falling issues as our boy.

 

[Deleted member]

I just want to point out something that most people are overlooking, and that is that Chrom's recovery is not straight up Ike's. Namely, Chrom does not throw his sword before performing the spinning jump, and that is a difference. It may or may not be the only thing 'borrowed' from Ike though, but I'm glad they did that at least as it's fitting.

I do agree it looks like Chrom is a 'balanced' Roy much like Lucina is a 'balanced' Marth, which is interesting. I will say I don't think anyone predicted he'd be an echo of Roy, lol.

 

[Flowen231]

I just want to point out something that most people are overlooking, and that is that Chrom's recovery is not straight up Ike's. Namely, Chrom does not throw his sword before performing the spinning jump, and that is a difference. It may or may not be the only thing 'borrowed' from Ike though, but I'm glad they did that at least as it's fitting.

I do agree it looks like Chrom is a 'balanced' Roy much like Lucina is a 'balanced' Marth, which is interesting. I will say I don't think anyone predicted he'd be an echo of Roy, lol.

I didn't overlook that bit, I didn't mention it specifically but I did say better than roy minus the recovery. And I would say it's even worse than ike's. When ike tosses his sword he can use it to poke around above hum before entering the danger zone, and it can help with overly eager edge trapping. Chrom just goes straight into the "please kill me" phase that as far as we know doesn't sweet spot. Although that does vary by matchup since sometimes ike gets destroyed because of the sword, but we'll have to wait on that lol.

 

[DPM15]

I'm so trying him out when this game drops!

 

[Bolshoi]

So far, I think Chrom is the echo that most differs from his base. It really expand the idea of what an echo can be, and makes me eager to try them all out.

 

[DPM15]

So far, I think Chrom is the echo that most differs from his base. It really expand the idea of what an echo can be, and makes me eager to try them all out.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[hermes]

Hyped for chrom ^^but he has to have the worst recovery though. Aether without quickdraw is really bad in terms of recovery. Marth being floaty, he can recover from below without a problem most of the time and his ledge grab range is also good. Chrom seems to insta die I dont know.

I also love how feminine he fights <3 like marth but also being a more power house <3

 

[Seraphim.]

Chrom losing out on Blazer is pretty rough, since he won't be able to mixup his recovery like Roy that could potentially hurt him in certain matchups.

With Ultimate's lower landing lag and options out of dash buffing Roy's approach/neutral game it remains to be seen how much better Chrom's options in the neutral will be in comparison.

Right now I'm leaning more towards Roy. Double-Edge Dance on Chrom's balanced blade will be really good though.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys talking about technicalities is exactly NOT the reason why Chrom is in the game. He's in because he's a character that fans want to play as, not because people want to win Smash tournaments. Period.

 

[hermes]

I dont know if thats only about lack of mixups. chrom seems borderline unable to recover on paper to me. Sometimes I need to quickdraw because its the only option and apparently chrom will be a fastfaller like roy.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Frame Data analysis of Chrom based on his 25e trailer
Jab: Hits Toon Link on Frame 5. Freeze frames from frame 6 -17,, FAF 35
Up Smash: Hits Toon Link on Frame 12. Freeze Frames from frame 13-49, FAF Unknown.
Up B: Hits Mewtwo on Frame 11. Freeze Frames from frame 12-23, 51-53, 60-62. Landing Lag Unknown
F-Tilt: Hits Sonic on Frame 8, Freeze Frames from frame 9-19, FAF unknown
Based on his Reveal trailer in the Smash Direct
Hits Little Mac w/ Nair on Frame 17. Freeze frames from 18-22. 11 Frames of Landing Lag.

 

[Arthur97]

Aether has more vertical range than blazer so honestly I think Chrom is just better Roy if his sword is balanced.

He does lack the horizontal angling of Blazer...unless they let him angle his up special.

On another note, Chrom's up special may be faster than Ike's so that may help it a bit.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Chrom's Aether first hit comes out at 10, compared to Ike's 15 (which is already improved from 18 in the previous game). But to compensate, the sword isn't thrown up, so there's nothing to protect Chrom from an opponent's edgeguard. We've also got no confirmation of super armor on Chrom's version (and the treehouse team recording all this footage for Smash Directs looooooves showing off Ike's super armor on aether). Looking at how the move starts and ends quicker than Ike's, I think you can get get some mileage from this attack as an alternative U-Air/F-Air to finish off an air combo for more damage. But it's still a long move to execute that leaves you open if it gets dodged. More commital than just doing an aerial. I feel like Ike and Roy's Up Bs are just superior for recovery, and not great to begin with.

Hopefully Roy in general has unseen improvements that Chrom can bank on. All you can really say about him is that he'll be a version of roy that won't do pitiful damage with well spaced moves. So err...like Lucina, except you have a great grab game, would be the most optimistic assessment. That recovery just looks pretty exploitable.

 

[FE_SLaDe]

Chrom will definitely suffer in the recovery department but honestly I don't think his will be that much worse than Roy's considering he'll share Roy's air speed (though make no mistake it definitely will be worse) plus Roy is incredibly reliant on making sure he doesn't lose his jump anyway so this might not be the end all deal people are making it out to be. I also think some of the versatility of Roy's sour-spots forcing tech situations (Jab and Down-Tilt specifically) will be lost in a balanced blade and take away some setups from Chrom, but he'll probably gain a lot of mileage out of being able to fully space nairs and get good damage off of them. Also I wonder if Chrom's F-Smash will be the end all terrifying kill option that the opponent has to keep in mind or if that'll just be specific to Roy cuz with the new dash mechanics, F-Throw tech chase F-smashes just got a hell of a lot easier.

One thing I haven't seen anyone else bring up is how Ike's Aether can be used as a suicide kill option (though unreliable). In theory if Chrom has the ability to combo off fairs with the same amazing FAF and Chrom swings his sword in front of him when he uses his version of Aether... Chrom could actually be quite terrifying with a stock lead.

 

[meleebrawler]

One thing I haven't seen anyone else bring up is how Ike's Aether can be used as a suicide kill option (though unreliable). In theory if Chrom has the ability to combo off fairs with the same amazing FAF and Chrom swings his sword in front of him when he uses his version of Aether... Chrom could actually be quite terrifying with a stock lead.

Sod suicide Aethers, what about using the first hit's most likely fixed knockback to send people past the ceiling at disgusting percents?

 

[FE_SLaDe]

Sod suicide Aethers, what about using the first hit's most likely fixed knockback to send people past the ceiling at disgusting percents?

Hmm outside of platform assistance I can't really see situations where first hit of Aether gets a kill off the ceiling with rage being nerfed. There is a possibility that with the reduced landing lag Chrom could land on platforms for Up Air ladder combos to land that first hit of Aether but I sincerely doubt that'll be a thing.

In Roy news rage will be less prevalent so I imagine reverse Blazer kill jank won'tbe a thing (and it was already super situational and punishable af).

 

[OhMyBanana54]

Some combo theory crafting:

Jab - Grab - pummels - d throw- jab - fair - Up B suicide For a hype zero to death!
Also falling Chrom’s falling up air may be godlike with lag reduction, safety on shield and no sour spot.

I’m so hyped for this game!

 

[FE_SLaDe]

Some combo theory crafting:

Jab - Grab - pummels - d throw- jab - fair - Up B suicide For a hype zero to death!
Also falling Chrom’s falling up air may be godlike with lag reduction, safety on shield and no sour spot.

I’m so hyped for this game!

I think that'll work on Fast Fallers but probably won't work on floaties. Remember the knockback is more balloon-like so that may end up hurting our combo game.

Also I think Chrom's Nair is gonna be godlike. Imagine if Roy could fully space a sweet-spot nair. That's the timeline we gonna live in now.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I really hope he doesn’t have Roy’s stats, because in Smash 4 Roy’s biggest weakness in my opinion was the fact that he handled like a remote-controlled brick. But I guess without the brick physics he’d be too similar to the Hero-Kings. At any rate, I’m definitely interested to see if Chrom has any statistical differences from Roy.

 

[Fell God]

Been playing Roy quite a bit recently in preparation for Chrom. I don't think I'm great yet, but I'd say fairly decent would be a fair assessment. With that out of the way, I've made sure to take note of what my strengths and my weaknesses have been, just so I can theorycraft now, and compare later when I play Chrom. Based on that, I think Chrom will suit me much more.

 

[Darklink401]

Chrom seems like he'll be a demon onstage, someone with Roy's beastly airspeed mixed with a sword that isn't a limp noodle...but offstage my dude's gonna have some issues.

Like, if he saves his jump he can at least move a lot in the air, due to being Roy's Echo, but dang man, not having a recovery side-B is gonna hurt.

 

[Izanagi97]

Chrom seems like he'll be a demon onstage, someone with Roy's beastly airspeed mixed with a sword that isn't a limp noodle...but offstage my dude's gonna have some issues.

Like, if he saves his jump he can at least move a lot in the air, due to being Roy's Echo, but dang man, not having a recovery side-B is gonna hurt.

Though that air speed is hard to take advantage of since Roy is also a fast faller with crap air acceleration (though I don't know if the later got buffed at all)

 

[Fell God]

Though that air speed is hard to take advantage of since Roy is also a fast faller with crap air acceleration (though I don't know if the later got buffed at all)

It's a faster paced game, so hopefully his laughable air acceleration (and maybe his jump height...please?) got increased. Time will tell I suppose.

 

[zeldasmash]

From what it looks like, Chrom seems to be Ultimate's version of Little Mac 2.0. Excellent on stage, pretty bad offstage. Unlike Little Mac, the guy actually has air normals that he can use for pressure and combo extensions. But when he has to recover, good luck.

Can't wait to use the guy. Even if he ends up on the lower end, I'm still gonna use Chrom. After the beating he took in Smash 4, just having him here makes me happy.

 

[Arthur97]

I read that Chrom's up special does indeed have super armor and may even meteor smash easier than Ike's. And corroborating reports?

 

[Izanagi97]

I read that Chrom's up special does indeed have super armor and may even meteor smash easier than Ike's. And corroborating reports?

If there is super armor, edgeguarding Chrom will definitely be more challenging than little mac since not only does it have Super armor, that meteor smash is strong as hell (best example I saw was it killing Falco hanging on the ledge at around 6% or so, I don't know how big the lower blast zone of Green Greens is). Also, I saw landing the full move did about 22 or so damage.

 

[Arthur97]

If there is super armor, edgeguarding Chrom will definitely be more challenging than little mac since not only does it have Super armor, that meteor smash is strong as hell (best example I saw was it killing Falco hanging on the ledge at around 6% or so, I don't know how big the lower blast zone of Green Greens is). Also, I saw landing the full move did about 22 or so damage.

This does give me hope that his recovery won't be as bad as some feared. At least there does seem to be decent risk to trying to edgeguard him.

 

[Izanagi97]

This does give me hope that his recovery won't be as bad as some feared. At least there does seem to be decent risk to trying to edgeguard him.

That and I hear that Roy's Air Acceleration got buffed so the same should apply to Chrom.

 

[Bobert]

I'm not a Roy expert or anything but I'd like to throw my hat in the ring since I've played him quite a lot in 4 and he's one of my favorite characters. Aether is worse than Blazer(both are garbage for recovery though) and he loses some of Roy's tipper kill confirms that should actually be more reliable in Ultimate considering the landing lag changes, but Chrom has the exact same frame data as Roy and no sourspots. You're probably going to have Chrom fulling spacing falling n-airs and u-airs from a safe distance in neutral that can also kill confirm into multiple things at max range when Roy couldn't do that(at least not consistently), like n-air into d-smash, f-smash, f-tilt, and reverse falling u-air into b-air. The last hit is always going to do the same amount of damage when you'd have to worry about hitting the sourspot with Roy and it not killing. Hitstun changes also favor Chrom's balanced tipper vs Roy's weaker tipper when it comes to confirming into other attacks at max range. Only way I can see Chrom being worse is if his recovery really does turn out to be practically unusable compared to blazer or if his damage output/kill potential is too dramatically low to make not having a sourspot redundant.

 

[zeldasmash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhzuUXmKN8Y

Aether does have armor. At around 0:40, Meta Knight hit Chrom while doing Aether and Chrom just brushed it off.

 

[Arthur97]

Yeah, Chrom's recovery may not be great, but let's be honest, neither is Roy's. It's better, sure, but they're both still bad so hopefully Chrom's even damage makes up for it.

 

[Izanagi97]

I wonder what it would look like if Aether was used to end combos near the ledge.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhzuUXmKN8Y

Aether does have armor. At around 0:40, Meta Knight hit Chrom while doing Aether and Chrom just brushed it off.

I think aether's super armor is only on the initial hit, sadly. If you look at 9:39, Chrom uses it to get out of the water but is hit by Meta Knight's nair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFEMEfeI7zM&t=8s
In better news, this video shows a jab combo into aether at 2:38. Marth's at 40% before the jab and the aether barely connects, but that little combo does 26% in doubles. Nothing to sneeze at, for sure.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Yeah, Chrom's recovery may not be great, but let's be honest, neither is Roy's. It's better, sure, but they're both still bad so hopefully Chrom's even damage makes up for it.

It would had been, had it not been for that juicy buff Roy got that makes Chrom's consistent damage almost useless, his increased sweetspot range.

 

[Arthur97]

It would had been, had it not been for that juicy buff Roy got that makes Chrom's consistent damage almost useless, his increased sweetspot range.

Why do this when you're adding a fighter like Chrom? Is this going to be Lucina all over again (just not as bad)?

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Why do this when you're adding a fighter like Chrom? Is this going to be Lucina all over again (just not as bad)?

"I don't know, Sakurai works in mysterious ways".