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Early character discussions: Demo characters [Megamans]

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Shaya

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Well by ordinance of based Sakurai, it seems that the five obvious early choices for "backroom discussions" are those available in the demos.

Mario, Link, Megaman, Villager and Pikachu.

Better in separate threads? Perhaps, but feel free to start here, and if you want to make it slightly easier for me, have separate posts for each character (don't be worried about double/multi posting).

If you feel you know an amazing person for these specific characters let me know. (ESAM and Pikachu perhaps?)

Threads will shipped individually into character boards (time frame in the past has been a week? we'll play it by ear for now). So the things mentioned in here specific to those characters will be publicised.

Just going by flow: Let's start megaman.
 
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KuroganeHammer

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Megaman feels weak because he has no close quarter options and doesn't have the mobility to run away and STAY away. He doesn't have a forward tilt essentially.

His recovery is basically sonic's but better, so there's no problems there. His smash attacks look to me to be really punishable on block, and his aerials carry no KO potential, so I honestly don't see him doing too well in the long run especially compared to every other newcomer.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Mega Man has a few good options but as Aero said, he can easily be punished with his Smash attacks and his aerials do not have any good killing potential. His U-Air is deceptive in that it carries players upwards but it doesn't do much damage. D-air has limited range. His b-air and F-air seems the best but even they seem lacking.

I do think character boards will be helpful.
 

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Will probably write an analysis of every move in the MM board later, but just to comment on some things:

Agreed the lack of a tilt s what probably hurts him the most. That said, the Mega Buster pretty much ate every other projectile thrown at him. Mario/Pikachu spamming Fireballs/Thunder Jolt? F-Tilt. Am also trying to test the N-Air buster as it doesn't hinder mobility like the others, but it is very difficult to use with the 3DS C-Stick.

S-Smash is very punishable. Was only getting Lv. 9 CPU kills when they're attempting to recover. Either would power-shield it/reflect it/pocket it otherwise. Is still a great KO move regardless. U-Smash I've found to be the most reliable with it's disjointed hitbox (which is saying a lot, as every other hitbox is pretty much how they look).

Haven't tested Metal Blade drops (vs. regular MB) yet, but it can be done. Leaf Shield is straight up garbage. Next.
 

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Megaman is amazing at edgeguarding; throw someone offstage and laugh as they try to avoid an onslaught of fair/ bair. His buzz blade does a lot of shield damage and is a really good pressure tool. I think he's a pretty decent character overall, just struggles vs. heavy rushdown.

Mario might be the best demo character, every move has a use and his setups are crazy.
 

Overswarm

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Megaman is fairly mediocre, sadly. :(

His u-throw allows for great mixups. U-throw -> metal blade, punish their dodge or hit. His d-throw combos into a few things and can trick them into air dodging for a punish. If they don't waste their jump you can u-smash them and if they do waste their jump, you almost certainly get a u-smash.

Megaman can easily u-smash OoS against virtually anything and his grab is AMAZING. His throws not so much, but he can get those grabs.

In a few cases MM can d-smash OoS and kill as low at 90%! Unfortunately this is a very rare occurrence and is less "MM did something good" and more "they did something bad".

Megaman's bair is great off stage but useless on stage as it is near impossible to short hop it. Fair is nearly worthless on stage or off -- it racks up damage but that's it. There's no followups if they DI properly and it often leaves MM vulnerable. MM's u-air is a good pressure tool but is hard to hit with. His dair is awful.

MM's general strategy is "metal blade - > grab" and spacing nair/jab/f-tilt. Pivot jab is really good for tacking on % and making the opponent make a mistake. Crash Bomb forces the opponent to do "something" and gives MM an opportunity to punish.

Leaf shield is near worthless.

Z-dropped metal blade is an amazing approach. You can actually z-drop a metal blade while in a combo and it hits the opponent for 5%. Pretty cool.

MM's d-tilt and u-tilt are okay, but situational.

Megaman has a guaranteed edgeguard, 0-death, against Link if he recovers to the ledge or goes below the stage (footstool or just bair off the ledge). Megaman's edgeguarding is super on point against some characters, non-existent against others. Footstool is king with Megaman.

MM's wall jump makes him hard to ledgeguard as you can wall jump -> bair from the ledge pretty easily. If you have the opportunity, leaf shield -> roll onto the stage is okay but you never get that opportunity.

MM's kill moves are d-smash, u-tilt, bair off stage, and u-smash, each being difficult to land. If MM's u-smash can kill you at around 100%, MM could be a nightmare. If it doesn't, he's probably not that hard to beat.

MM's biggest advantage is that unlike Mario, MM's options are constant throughout the entire stock. Mario is strong early on and then suddenly has to land the kill and, without a fireball approach, can't quite get it without a read.

MM can just keep doing metal blade combos and racking up % with crash bomb / metal blade / leaf shield / jab from a safe distance.

MM's jab is unpunishable if done right. You can walk forward and shoot 3 pellets and short hop backwards after the third and it's been unpunishable so far.

MM's d-smash hits you if you're on the ledge, but really only works if you don't have your invincibility. MM's d-smash isn't nearly as meaty as it looks. Kel has walked directly into the flames and punished me on more than one occasion.

MM can steal the ledge from you and then drop off -> jump -> bair, but it's not guaranteed.


All in all, MM is a character that a strong player can play and do okay with, but while someone like mario needs one good read to get a high % combo or KO move, MM needs like 3 or 4 in a row. Because so little is guaranteed, I don't see him doing particularly well in general.

THAT SAID, I believe Megaman will benefit greatly from moving stages and platforms. Playing on battlefield is a totally different ball game for Megaman, and his d-throw is suddenly an incredibly pressure tool.

If MM is stuck on FD, you can corner him really easily. On Battlefield he can be comfortable at any location.


Also, wavebounce metal blade is awesome. As is hitting it to the ledge, grabbing the ledge, then picking it up with an aerial.
 

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I've been trying to play more Megaman lately because out of the demo characters, he's EASILY the one I feel the least comfortable with. I'm still trying to get a better feel for him, and I feel a lot's been said already (I mean DAYUM, Overswarm!). I do wonder, though, if there's utility in using his side b for edgeguarding--you can make the side B stick to the ledge. I'm gonna play around with it more, but I'm curious if you can sticky the ledge to put the opponent in a STICKY situation. Maybe if timed right the explosion hits them in a good position to be daired.

Dtilt also hits on the ledge.
 
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Krynxe

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Everyone above me seems to be interested in Megaman haha. Here's some notes about Villager

Villager's fairs and bairs seem to link in a way that oddly resembles Jigglypuff's wall of pain in older versions, but the obvious lack of jumps Villager has makes it a bit harder to set up. I've been able to do up to 4 in a row, with rising and falling f/bairs. The move has low knockback, but just enough hitstun to make it work at higher percents than you would see with Jigglypuff. This, along with things like down-b and fsmash, will make Villager's ability to cover the offstage quite strong. Not to mention that you can throw gyroids after them if your opponent is recoverying horizontally, and Villager's up-b can go very far.

Pocket is going to be a ridiculously strong tool. Any character with a strong move that can be absorbed will have to think more than twice before using it, because Villager doesn't have the best kill power by far so giving him something and allowing it to double in power will be your biggest mistake. This will immediately be made clear in teams as well. Pocket also seems to have some invuln frames which can be used, this will have to be tested more since I'm still unsure about how it works.

Uair/dair are, of course, random. I plan to test the move and come up with data on not only each version of the attack, but the likeliness of each. I've noticed that they have good coverage if the turnips are larger, and the uair can kill off the top pretty well with a good roll.

Floored gyroid cancel, following it, and covering options will be Villager's greatest tool. Villager is definitely going to be a defensive character, reacting to your opponent as much as possible. F/bair make this extra possible, making it possible to create a wall using floored gyroids and f/bairs if they jump, grabbing if they shield.

Tree can create stage presence/threats, as well as a way to defend from projectile campers outside of pocket, but I haven't found much use for Villager's axe attack yet.
 

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Everyone's talking Megaman because that's who the first post says to talk about first. ;)
 

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Everyone above me seems to be interested in Megaman haha. Here's some notes about Villager

Villager's fairs and bairs seem to link in a way that oddly resembles Jigglypuff's wall of pain in older versions, but the obvious lack of jumps Villager has makes it a bit harder to set up. I've been able to do up to 4 in a row, with rising and falling f/bairs. The move has low knockback, but just enough hitstun to make it work at higher percents than you would see with Jigglypuff. This, along with things like down-b and fsmash, will make Villager's ability to cover the offstage quite strong. Not to mention that you can throw gyroids after them if your opponent is recoverying horizontally, and Villager's up-b can go very far.

Pocket is going to be a ridiculously strong tool. Any character with a strong move that can be absorbed will have to think more than twice before using it, because Villager doesn't have the best kill power by far so giving him something and allowing it to double in power will be your biggest mistake. This will immediately be made clear in teams as well. Pocket also seems to have some invuln frames which can be used, this will have to be tested more since I'm still unsure about how it works.

Uair/dair are, of course, random. I plan to test the move and come up with data on not only each version of the attack, but the likeliness of each. I've noticed that they have good coverage if the turnips are larger, and the uair can kill off the top pretty well with a good roll.

Floored gyroid cancel, following it, and covering options will be Villager's greatest tool. Villager is definitely going to be a defensive character, reacting to your opponent as much as possible. F/bair make this extra possible, making it possible to create a wall using floored gyroids and f/bairs if they jump, grabbing if they shield.

Tree can create stage presence/threats, as well as a way to defend from projectile campers outside of pocket, but I haven't found much use for Villager's axe attack yet.
We're on Megaman discussions, but Villager's axe attack is basically fair/bair up close.
 

Overswarm

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Did I mention how boss Megaman's d-throw is in doubles? Seriously, you can d-throw and then step forward and charge u-smash while someone else jumps forward and tries to aerial. I'm loving how effective doubles throw combos are. Can't wait to see what happens.
 

Overswarm

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All kinda old hat. MM can short hop retreating jab/nair to mess with spacing, but when people get used to it, it won't be that big of a deal I think.

MM will be okay. Not great, but not awful. Gonna take a lot of effort to do things that other characters can do easily.
 

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I think Megaman is kind of like Toon Link in the keep away kind of play. Megaman just takes it farther to pretty much having a kit that works around almost all projectiles.

He wants to rack up damage and sometimes going for some opportunistic bigger hits. Still his overall damage output doing this is fairly low, I have not tested customs since english demo.

His offstage game is pretty damn good, great at edge-guarding in particular. I don't think he is bad but being one of the strong characters people will try and flock to early on. Probably not. His low percent kills though, wowsa he has a few of these on some moves.

The biggest thing I need to get used to is a lot of his moves being his normal buster shots. I still have trouble doing this. ;_;
 
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Overswarm

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Megaman can combo metal blade d-throw into grab, u-smash, or u-tilt OoS. It's pretty sweet.
 

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Sounds like Wario with a tire, lol.
Except bad.



Everyone already said what is to be said about him, overall Megaman lacks options when the opponent is close, if only Buster had a little more hitstun/knockback, or even some damage so at least the trade is worth it...
Also, IMO Dtilt is pretty good, it's slow but a nice GTFO move. Might get some use as a getaway option, but I'd need to test it more (preferably against actual people).
 

Overswarm

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I actually am liking Megaman more the more I've played with him. The biggest thing he lacks is a good (easy to land) KO move, but his custom over-b might solve that.
 

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I have also been experimenting more. His Dash Attack is quite good thanks to invincibility frames, and his grab range is decent.
So when the opponent is near he has a couple options now.
 

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I feel Mega Man has a fairly high learning curve due to him not exactly being a projectile specialist and favoring a camper style. His Side Smash works in several instances but can easily be punished against him. His Dash Attack is fairly good though. He just lacks any actual killing attacks.

His specials are not exactly worth noting. Metal Blade has some interesting applications as Overswarm mentioned but I feel it can be easily predicted not to mention used against him if an opponent catches it.

Leaf Shield is by far one of the worse specials i have seen. It is pretty useless and doesn't really help Mega Man's options.

I don't know what the stances on Custom Moves are but I am pretty close to unlocking most of Mega Man's moves. His two Neutral Customs might be a better choice as they cannot be used against Mega Man. Shadow Blade seems the best out of the 3 as it cannot be picked up and has a good range to it. Plus, it can hit twice when thrown and its return.

Mega Man's Side Customs are interesting but I feel Crash Bomber is th ebetter option. Ice Slasher does not stick to surfaces and thus limits its options but it can freeze opponents as a trade off. This could be helpful in various situations. Danger Wrap seems interesting at first and I had some fun with it but I do not see it being a very handy attack as it can easily be predicted and punished. It has a very short range.

For vertical recovery, Beat has all of the Up Customs beat (lol) but the Rush Coil has the added effect for a double and higher bounce. However, Tornado Hold was a good attack that offers good vertical distance but can be used as a way to transport opponents upwards and initiate into aerial combos such as the Fair and Bair. I feel this one has the best options.

I don't even want to touch his Down Specials but from the lot, I feel Plant Barrier to be helpful as it stops attack, does not die, and can attack players though it is unable to be thrown. Skull Barrier is interesting but it is only good for reflecting projectiles which is helpful against a projectile heavy character such as Mega Man. It is literally wasted on melee oriented characters like Mac and Falcon. I would go with Plant Barrier.

I am not exactly that eloquent with meta game analyzation but I thought I would give my opinion on the customs.
 
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