E3 Demo Damage Chart

[LancerStaff]

1st use unless otherwise stated, FFA
2nd use may or may not be stale
No staleness is x1.05 in Wii U
Taken from Plup’s gameplay

Uncharged Arrow 3.4

Jab 2 and 3 together? 4
DA 11.5
Full Utilt 9.5
Sour Ftilt 7.3

Fsmash Full (2nd use, not likely stale) 16
Fsmash 2 7.6
Dsmash 1, Sweet (2nd use) 11.6
Dsmash 2, sweet 12.8
Dsmash 2, sour (2nd use) 9.2

Nair Full (definitely slightly stale, also healing thing might of effected it) 7.8
Nair Final 1.1
Dair Spike 8.9 (is later 9.1? Definitely slightly stale then, perhaps involves rounding)
Dair strong upwards (second use) 9.8
Uair 11.5 (later 11.6, probably rounding)
Fair Full (2nd use) 8.9
Bair (Sweet?) 12.6 (does 11 immediately after)

Pummel 1.4
Bthrow 9.4

- - -

Er, discuss?

Dair Spike is definitely weaker damage wise, Uair is definitely stronger. That’s all that really sticks out after running calculations.

 

[vegeta18]

so this is all from free for all right? damage will be less

 

[LancerStaff]

so this is all from free for all right? damage will be less

I mean, FFAs are obviously the baseline here... As far as actual changes go, they’re minimal.

 

[Qina]

I did a bit more research on some 1v1's I saw. Here's what I've found so far.

Move Data

Note: For the multiple cases, I just listed all of them. Check the match data for more in case you can find something I missed.

Jab 2.5
-> Jab 2nd 2.5
-> Jab 3rd
-> Jab Rapid Atk 7.6, 8.2

Dash Atk 13.8
Getup Atk 11.3

U-tilt 11.4
-> 1st hit 4.9
-> 2nd hit 6.5
F-tilt
-> sour 8.8
-> tip
D-tilt 7.5

U-smash 16.2-17.6
-> 1st hit 2.9-3.8
-> 2nd 3-3.5
-> 3rd 10.3
F-smash 17.2-20.7
-> 1st hit 5.9, 6.4, 6.5, 7.7,
-> 2nd hit 11.3, 11.5, 12.8, 12.9, 13
D-smash
-> front
-> back
-> 15.1 base
-> 12.9 tip

Nair (last hit?) 5.7
Uair (full) 13.8
Fair 13.9
Dair 12.6
Bair 15.1 (unsure if sour or tip)

Pummel 1.4
-> U-Throw
-> F-Throw 12.6
-> D-Throw 7.5
-> B-Throw 10.1

Arrow
-> Uncharged 4.0
-> Slightly Charged, 4.1, 4.9, 5.4
Arrow (Charged)
Side-B
-> Air 11.3, 11.4
-> Ground 12.7, 13.8

Match Data

Note: The damage percents are the opponent's after the move hit.

Spoiler: Pit vs Fox

0
7.5 dtilt
13.2 nair (last hit)
20.7 dthrow
22.4 pummel
32.5 bthrow
46.3 dash atk
57.7 utilt
71.5 uair (full)
83.7 dash atk
89.x fsmash 1st hit
100.9 fsmash 2nd hit
> fox dies

0
10.4 uair
21.7 getup atk
33.7 dash atk
45.2 fsmash (last hit)
> fox sds

0
7.5 dthrow
14.1 dthrow (7.5 vs 6.6)
17.x usmash first hit
20.5 usmash 2nd hit
30.8 usmash final
42.1 upperdash (air 11.3)
54.7 fthrow
62.3 dtilt
> pit dies
69.8 dthrow
82.4 fthrow
94.6 fthrow
109.7 bair
> fox dies

Spoiler: Pit vs Ike

0
13.8 dash atk
25.7 nair
28.2 jab 1
30.7 jab 2
38.3 rapid atk
39.9 pummel
41.3 pummel
48.9 dthrow
61.8 dsmash (back hit)
67.2 arrow (somewhat charged?)
71.8 rapid atk
84.5 upperdash (fresh 12.7)
92.2 fsmash 1st hit
105.1 fsmash 2nd
116.5 getup atk
> pit dies
122.9 fsmash 1st
135.7 fsmash 2nd
> ike dies

0
10 (ike burns himself)
14.9 arrow (uncharged)
28.7 upperdash
41.0 dash atk
44.8 arrow (uncharged)
56.1 dash atk
> pit dies
57.8 nair (middle attacks?)
64.3 fsmash 1st
77.1 fsmash 2nd
88.5 upperdash (fresh but 11.4?)
94.1 fmash 1st
105.3 fsmash 2nd
> ike dies

0
12 upperdash
14.5 jab 1
17.1 jab 2
25.3 rapid atk
35 upperdash
48.8 dash atk
> ike dies

Spoiler: Mario vs Pit

0
0.8 nair (1st hit)
3.4 jab 1
5.9 jab 2
14.1 rapid atk
16.3 jab 2
23.4 rapid atk
24.7 nair (last hit)
37.7 fsmash 2nd hit
50.3 dair
61.2 dair
65.2 arrow uncharged air
79.1 fair
> pit dies
82.6 nair (hits 1-2)
95.2 fthrow
104.0 ftilt sour
> pit dies
117.? upperdash
119.1 (out of bounds)
130.9 uair full
135 arrow uncharged
147.? upperdash
mario dies

0
2.5 jab 1
5.0 jab 2
12.6 rapid atk
26.4 dash atk
29.1 usmash 1st hit
39.8 usmash 2nd hit
54.9 dsmash back
67.5 fthrow
68.4 nair (first hit)

Spoiler: Pit vs Ridley

NOTE: All the damages here seem to be less than the rest, despite being 1 v 1. The damage seems to be more consistent with multi smashes, and I believe it's because turning on items turns off 'competitive' mode. Do NOT trust this info as accurate.

0
9.4 upperdash arm (9.4?????)
14.6 fsmash 1st (5.2 vs regular 6.4)
25.2 fsmash 2nd (11)
35.7 ftilt (tip)
47.7 (pokemon shenanigans)
52.6 fsmash 1st (charged?)
62.4 fsmash 2nd
68.? pokemon
71.4 ftilt (sour)
> ridley dies cause of assist trophies

0
96.5 item ****
> pit gets a mushroom (does that affect dmg?)
105.7 ftilt (sour + mushroom?)
> pit is small again

0
50.7 bees
57.8 fsmash 2nd
> pit dies
69.3 dash atk (11.5 vs 13.8 usual)
80.9 upperdash (11.6)
81.9 out of bounds
91.9 upperdash
92.0 out of bounds
102 upperdash
104 out of bounds
112.2 upperdash

 

[Qina]

So with a quick comparison of my data and Lancer's I think I have an idea about the conversion rate? If FFA x SMASH = 1v1, then the SMASH rate is easy enough to find.

Though the results were kind of weird.

Note: Pummel for some reason stays completely the same?

B.Throw: 10.1 / 9.4 = 1.074

Dash Atk: 13.8 / 11.5 = 1.2

U.Tilt: 11.4 / 9.5 = 1.2
Sour F-Tilt: 8.8 / 7.3 = 1.205

Dair: 12.6 / 9.1 = 1.38
Bair: 15.1 / 12.5 = 1.198

If I had more data we could find something more conclusive, but It seems the conversion rate floats between 1.07 - 1.38?? I'm gonna look at other matches for more data.

 

[LancerStaff]

I remember hearing that staleness is slightly different, but freshness is the same. There also might be more factors at play then we realize... Like you said, pummels seem to be uneffected. It could just not be working properly.

Dunno, wouldn’t worry about it too much. We know that, so far, Pit is relatively unchanged in general and has very little changes in terms of damage. I would just use FFA damage when comparing to other fighters as well, because again there’s less factors at play.

 

[Qina]

> relatively unchanged
> dash attack is a kill move
> dair spikes now

????

Also I know you want to use your info but by posting mine I'm not invalidating yours. More data is good data.

 

[LancerStaff]

Compared to Mario, Samus, Fox, Pikachu, Marth, or almost basically anybody, yes, Pit has very few changes.

Dair has spiked since 1.0 on 3DS. Not to toot my own horn... But I was kinda the main guy testing his (and Dark Pit’s) (lack of) changes during patches. I kinda know what’s what. Well that and Kurogane has it’s angle set downwards...

I don’t really care if you post your data... It’s just that I feel like there’s something you’re not considering, because my data indicates it’s largely the same.

 

[Qina]

Dair spike came out at what, frame 10? The rest of the frames had a weird pop off to it on smash 4.

But -every- frame of the Dair in ultimate seems to spike which is insane. Plus the kill move dash attack would cause him to jump a bunch of spots easily. That said, there's certainly a lot more data on my end, and FFA is great but -workable/usable- data is going to be based off 1v1s rather than things like FFA or Doubles.

Through my data I've at least found that the damage multiplier just isn't 1.2 like expected, but seems to have a weird sliding scale.

 

[LancerStaff]

Yes, the spike was only active on F10. If you got the wrong hitbox or otherwise hit later you would pop people up.

I don’t really think the move has had any fundamental changes from what I’ve seen but I would love to be proven wrong.

I mean... The frame data of the new dash attack seems pretty average, aka not remotely safe. It’s cool that it kills and pretty effectively as well but you have to actually land the thing, which isn’t exactly free, and it has to not be stale too. Pit’s going to benefit more from the new shield and pivot mechanics more than he will for killing with a dash attack. Honestly the extra damage on Uair has me more excited.

Accuracy matters more at this point than putting it through the full formula. Until we can figure out what’s causing these inconsistencies at our leisure it’s just going to muddy up things. Due to rounding (aka the game not displaying every decimal) it’s probably more effective to use the base values and do the math ourselves anyway.